In this episode, Jim and Tyson interview Paul Yokabitus, an estate planning attorney who has just launched his own firm: Cary Estate Planning, from North Carolina.
- His mindset
- His early days as an attorney
- Work experience: the advantage of working at a firm before opening your own
- Learning systems, processes, workflows and customers
- Referral networks
- How has he spent his time in the ramp up to launching the firm:
- Took lessons learned from previous firm, and impriving
- Listening to the book Clockwork, by Mike Michalowicz
- Creating and maintaining deep relationships over time with clients and with key referral partners
“A lot of it was sort of carrying on from what I was already doing. Most of my referral partners they were loyal to me, they were with me before I joined my most recent firm, and they are going to continue to be with me moving forward, and that’s largely because I actually care about them. That’s something that I think people really lack when they’re trying to create referral relationships and networking relationships. A lot of people just got to an event and load a shotgun with business cards and just start spraying, but if you don’t follow up; ask questions about what are their kids names, what does their wife or husband do, were are they from, those are the kind of interests that build relationships vs contact.”
- Social media and website content
- Bought a lot of video equipment: for a video FAQs
- Opening party and coverage in the media
- Time structure moving forward
- 2 offices: collaborating with other offices
- Different days assigned to marketing and client meetings
- Block scheduling
- Answering services:
- Actual focus: organization!
- Strength: bringing clients in
- Weakness: management
“I just got to put the pedal down to the floor for the first couple months until I’ve got consistent revenue, and then hire out the staff that I am not good at.”
- Bookkeeping: spend some money to set it up correctly right out the box.
- 5 years from now:
- Meeting with referral partners and clients.
- Plan strategy and implementation
- The election of the name and including the location in the name:
- SEO and Keywords
- Low lawyer saturation in Cary
- Active in the community
- Choosing the location of the office
Jim’s hack: Focus on conversion/sign ups.
Paul’s hack: BombBomb, it’s an email platform that hosts native video, so you can send video within the body of the email without being redirected to another website. You can also live record!
Tyson’s tip: Writeyboards
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Transcripts: Running My Own Law Firm: Day 1 ft. Paul Yokabitus
Most of my referral partners were loyal to me, there wouldn’t be before I joined my most recent firm, and they’re gonna continue to be with me moving forward. And that’s largely because I actually care about them. And that’s something that I think people really lack when they’re trying to create referral relationships and networking relationships is a lot of people just sort of, you know, go to an event, and just load up a shotgun with business cards and just start spraying. But, you know, if you don’t follow up, ask questions about, you know, what are their kids names? What are their wife or husband do? What are they around where they go to college, that sort of thing. Those are the types of questions and the types of interests that actually build relationships versus contact. And so that’s been sort of my key success over the last four years and building my practice is making sure that I’m constantly following up.
Run your law firm, the right way. This is the maximum liar podcast, podcast, your hosts, Jim hacking, and Tyson metrics. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.
Welcome back to the maximum lawyer Podcast. I’m Jim hacking.
And I’m typing music. So forgive me.
Hey, Tyson. How was Chicago? I know you want to see Fleetwood Mac.
It was great. It was a an excellent concert. For everyone that’s been to a Fleetwood Mac concert. You probably agree it’s probably one of the best concerts you can get to. Yeah, they may be old, they may not have what they used to have. But there’s it was still really incredible. I mean, just the show in general was amazing.
Were you the youngest person, everybody? 40 years,
you know, I was expecting a lot of older people. There were older people. But there there was a good mix of young people. It was a diverse crowd. I did not expect it. Honestly, it was a great crowd. I would
have zero interest in seeing Fleetwood Mac. And I doubt that I would think it was one of the best concerts I’ve ever seen.
That’s surprisingly, given your age. So that’s surprising.
Alright, let’s get to it. today. We have literally the first we have someone who has launched his own firm. And today’s day one of that firm, Paul yolk abiertas is with us from North Carolina. Paul, welcome to the show. Hey, guys,
thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
Paul, just give us your mindset. How you feeling?
I’m pretty pumped, actually, you know, I had probably less lead times. And I would have wanted but this has sort of been in the back of my mind. I’ve always kind of been one of those people that had that entrepreneurial burn in the stomach. And it was always sort of one of those things where it was a win. Not enough. So then, you know, a lot of preparation. I had a lot of stuff separate already. So you know, I’m just pumped 30 year old. Well talk to us about law school, and then your experience after law school. Yeah. So I’m from Michigan. Originally, I went to undergrad outside of Grand Rapids, and really State University to the school. And then, so I graduated in 2010, which we were knee deep in the recession, and was looking at law schools. And I’m the baby of the family. And my mom and stepdad had moved down to Raleigh, North Carolina. So when I was looking around, I looked at Campbell University School of Law, which had just moved to Raleigh from a very rural town called Goose Creek the year before. And then I was looking at Michigan State, and I’m a massive University of Michigan fan. So it would have been literally like cutting my own heart out to go to Michigan State. So I ended up moving down the summer of 2010 to start law school that fall at Campbell. And Campbell is somewhat of a smaller Baptist School, but it’s law school is right in the heart of Raleigh, which is the capital of North Carolina, that had a lot of great access to stuff like government internships, the supreme court court of appeals, the US District Court, the DOJ, a lot of stuffs in Raleigh, and then certainly it’s a significant sized city, it’s metro areas, about a half million people. So it has a lot of great opportunity. And best of all, I very little snow, which I grew up with, you know, 12 inches at a time, which was pretty regular occurrence. And then, you know, job wise, you know, the economy was booming here is one of the areas that you know, wasn’t really impacted by the recession too much. So it rebounded nicely. Actually in law school, I started focusing on litigation, and that was what I did for the first year out. I work for a small firm in Cary Cary is a suburb of Raleigh, about 160,000 people, it’s a little more affluent. It’s where a lot of tech jobs, people who have tech jobs live, or kind of famous for the Research Triangle Park. companies like Cisco and IBM and stuff like that live here, or are located here. So Carrie is sort of somewhat of an inside joke that it’s the containment area for relocated Yankees car why? Because of a lot of people who move down here from like Pittsburgh and New York, and that sort of stuff for tech jobs. So super friendly to somebody from Michigan, because that was a little more the rule than the exception. But my first job out I was doing insurance events litigation for companies like USAA and Over mutual and a few other insurance companies, fender benders, that sort of stuff actually did the entire state of North Carolina, diminished value claims, which is when a car gets struck, and it’s not a total loss. So they’ll pay for the car to be repaired as best as possible, usually with aftermarket parts and that sort of stuff. And then the person who is struck, basically requested diminished value, what the car is, or less what the car is worth. Now, I would do the entire state of North Carolina, basically small claims, and that sort of stuff for anything from you know, 500 to $5,000 claims for diminished value and that sort of thing. It didn’t take long for me to realize that litigation really wasn’t my thing. And it actually coincided with the birth of my oldest son Mason, about four years ago, I was prepping up a trial about a month after he was born for this massive go kart accident case where we were defending the go kart facility. And just so happened to start the Monday following Thanksgiving. And so I was in the office about 16 hours each day, Wednesday, Thursday, through Sunday, that entire Thanksgiving weekend, prepping and the case that settled at lunch if we picked a jury. So that was sort of a rude awakening that was probably going to be my life moving forward if I kept in sort of defense practice. And I really valued that quality time with my wife and my son, I now have two kids. But at that point, I really started making the pivot over to a planning practice, and I haven’t looked back. So now I currently do estate planning, elder law, to probate work, and then some business formations and acquisitions. And I’ve done that for the last four years
component of the practice for a little bit, what is your opinion on attorneys that start their firm right out of law school, as opposed to someone that works a little bit, and then starts,
I honestly, you know, it would have been a very different path for me. And I’d done that I had the benefit of building up a network and getting referral partners and that sort of stuff over the last four years, that have really incubated this launch for me that, you know, I think these days, it’s probably easier to, you know, Bootstrap and hang your shingle from, you know, graduation daters, or as soon as you start, you know, you get licensed and so on and, and that sort of thing. But I don’t know how anybody does it, I got a lot of respect for for anybody who does it. Most importantly, because you don’t know what sort of systems and processes, you need to put in. Probably the most valuable aspect of my work experience has been learning how to do the business side of law, you know, learning what sort of systems and processes and workflows and you know, how to treat customers and clients and that sort of stuff. And that’s just something you don’t know coming out of law school. So unless somebody is sort of bootstrapping it, and also doing like, Doc review, or some other jobs, I don’t know how, how I would do that, or how anybody does that. But certainly plenty of people make it work.
Paul, how have you spent your time in the ramp up to launching the firm,
it’s been a lot of research, like, there’s so many options, as far as like vendors for software and that sort of thing. A lot of it was sort of building out what, what I would want to have my practice look like based on what my practices previously looked like. And I was fortunate, I just recently left a firm that does very good, they did a very good job of really structuring the prospect and you know, the before in the during phase, so I was able to really take a lot of, you know, key points and you know, solid systems and processes from them. But it’s just been a lot of trying to develop that workflow and trying to develop the customer experience and the templates and that sort of thing. So like, even this morning, I’m sort of, you know, I was able to take a bunch of clients with me, and I’m sort of pumping them into Cleito now and getting their matters set up and their billing and those sorts of things organized. And I’m sort of making this realization that this process and system improvement is sort of a daily thing. I recently purchased and have been listening to the book clockwork, which is by Michael McCalla wits, I think his name, the guy who wrote profit verse and Pumpkin Plan, and that sort of thing. And that’s sort of given me some additional ideas of how to create processes and systems and efficiencies, what I can delegate, what I can trim down. And those are the things and it’s really giving me a path to what my first hire will end up being, which is likely going to be somebody to do sort of the back and forth with clients and that sort of stuff. So that’s really what I’ve been trying to do is, you know, line things up for successful start, get clients on the calendar, prospects on the calendar and that sort of thing, and then just kind of get organized. And it seems to be sort of something that’s evolving on a daily basis.
So from a marketing perspective, we what are your first steps? What are the first things that you’re going to do?
I kind of just picked up from where I left off. For the last three years. I’ve had my own website that I started two firms ago, brought with me to my most recent firm and then just kept so I pay the hosting fees that paid the theme fees and that sort of stuff. All the domain registration was under my name and that sort of thing, so I could keep it separately. So that’s always been there. I just sort of flipped the logo Go and change some of the copyright language and disclaimer language and that sort of stuff. But my marketing success has really been on creating and maintaining really nurturing deep relationships over time with my clients and with key referral partners. For me, I get a lot of clients from financial advisors doing estate planning, we’re all kind of talking about the same thing. So a lot of it was just reaching out to these key partners, well ahead of time, sort of given them an indication that a change is happening. Over the last couple of weeks, I’ve been the sort of like tailoring and making sure my list was organized, I had, I think about 650 people on my CRM that I uploaded into MailChimp, and got sort of an announcement email out, just sort of making touches back to the people who have consistently supported my practice. And so a lot of it was just sort of carrying on from what I was already doing. Most of my referral partners were loyal to me, they were with me, before I joined my most recent firms are going to continue to be with me moving forward. And that’s largely because I actually care about them. That’s something that I think people really lack when they’re trying to create referral relationships and networking relationships is a lot of people just sort of, you know, go to an event and just load up a shotgun with business cards and just start spraying. But, you know, if you don’t follow up, ask questions about, you know, what are their kids names? Where does Where does their wife or husband do? Where are they from, where they go to college, that sort of thing. Those are the types of questions and the types of interests that actually build relationships versus contact. And so that’s been sort of my key to success over the last four years. And building my practice is making sure that I’m constantly following up, giving touches, meaningful touches, whether that’s gifting, taking people out for beers, you know, reaching out if their spouse or child has had a medical procedure, those sorts of things, just sort of high Scotch deep relationships. And then of course, I’ve got, you know, social media and website content and that sort of stuff. But one thing I’m going to be doing this week is prior to leaving, I bought a bunch of video equipment, like you know, backdrop and light boxes, and that sort of stuff on Amazon for like 120 bucks. I’m gonna set it up in my home office and just start plowing through some frequently asked questions, videos and getting them on YouTube as soon as I can. And then probably using two buddy, Jim recommended to optimize all that. That sounds like all good stuff that you’re working on. Paul, I
remember when I started my firm, one of the things that we did is we had a party and we invited everybody we knew to the party. And then we got some coverage in the local newspaper, talking about our new immigration practice, and then that coverage got me my first deportation case, you might think about having a party but yeah, and the videos are great idea. You know, obviously, I’m a big believer in video, how do you intend to spend your time what’s your structure of your weekend look like for these first couple of months?
Yeah, so my method is a little bit different, because I’ve got two offices just from day one that I’m going to be operating out of one in Raleigh one in Cary. And that’s largely because I’m collaborating with two other law firms. So one is my my first employer. So they sort of welcomed me back in a separate but collaborative role. So I’ll essentially be taking clients at their office and sort of using, you know, having exclusive use on two days out of the week of their conference room. And then using their staff for witnessing and that sort of stuff for estate plan signings. And then they don’t have to be planning currently as a practice area or an offering for their clients. So if clients of theirs need estate planning services, they’ll essentially refer them to me, and then we’ll work out or we have worked out essentially a referral fee relationship on that end. And then I have that same relationship with another firm in Raleigh. So my goal is to do two days in Cary one day in Raleigh, and then the other two days work on marketing and client service. And it’s looking like it’s going to be Monday and Wednesday are my marketing and client services. So just sort of grinder type days. And then Tuesday, Thursday, Friday will be the client meeting days. And then I traditionally do more like block scheduling. So I’ll have two or three hours in the morning that I have open for consultations, and then two or three hours in the afternoon. And then the rest of the day. It’s like email triage or, you know, returning phone calls, that sort of stuff to call something
you have a lot of things already organized and planned out. And what are you going to do about phones and things like that are going to answer your own phone, or did you just hire an answering service?
Yeah. So I have essentially a setup where I’m answering my own phone right now. And it’s really just until I’ve worked out the logistics of moving things over to smith.ai. But I’m running into a little bit of a logistical issue because I ended up using a company called sideline, which is essentially a second phone app on your phone. But it piggybacks to your existing wireless network. So it’s not you know, you’re not purchasing minutes or anything like that. And then it just rings and calls through the separate phone app. Much like most, you know, voice over IP cell phone apps we do the issues that they don’t do call transfers. So I can’t receive calls or have them forwarded essentially dismissed that AI. So I guess the solution and it’s not a great solution is they’ve essentially said that I need to port my number over to smith.ai, and then get a secondary number, which would be, I guess, more of an equivalent to like a direct line number, you know, at a traditional law firm. But the porting can take up to a week. So I may have sort of like this dead zone, you know, where my phone number just doesn’t work, which is not an ideal situation. So the other option is to sideline has an option called Team phone or team line where you can have that app replicated or another person in line, and have essentially the phone ring across all phones who are on that line. And then essentially have my wife triage phone calls sort of in the short term, until I have everything figured out. But it’s one of those things where, you know, small mistakes can add up. And, you know, I just didn’t do my sufficient research on sideline and the logistics of the call transfer system to our virtual receptionists. But ultimately, my goal is to have outsourced reception so that I’m not answering the phone at all. And then not even doing live transfers, I’ll just return calls during the day kind of thing.
What are you thinking about these days? Like, what are you worried about, or what’s on your horizon or things that
you’re, you’re focused on. So my strength has always been business development, like I can usually get business to come to the door pretty quickly. And pretty consistently. But my my weakness, from like an E Myth, perspective is the management. So organization, task follow ups, that sort of stuff. So my concern currently is sort of just keeping everything organized, not just the practice of law, but you know, the bookkeeping and invoices and expenses, and that sort of stuff all together until I’ve got enough revenue, so I can hire it out to someone else. So it’s sort of all hands on deck at the outset. And my wife is sort of pinch hitting as much as she can. But she’s also watching our kids and that sort of thing. So I just got to basically put the pedal down to the floor for the first couple of months until I’ve got consistent revenue, and then hire out the stuff that I’m not good at, or that I’m not the best that. But yeah, I mean, October looks good. As far as consultations, I’ve got 14 lined up the rest of the month, but nothing in November. So sort of keeping that pipeline full, is always going to be concerned, you know, since my wife stays home, I’m it you know, it’s sort of, you know, we sink or swim and based on my efforts, so that’s always sort of in the back of my mind currently. But it’s just little things, little things that that I haven’t had to deal with, in Firm Settings that I’m now experiencing for the first time and just sort of keeping everything organized. Paul,
I’m really glad you mentioned the bookkeeping aspect of things, I think that when you start your firm, it’s the one chance you have to set things up correctly. And I would encourage you to spend a little bit of money to consult with someone who might not be your long term accountant, but at least to help them get your account set up in QuickBooks or whatever you’re using. Because if you don’t set it up correctly, right out of the box, it’s really going to set you up for a lot of confusion and headaches later.
Yeah, that’s a good point. Yeah, I’ll definitely do that. And that’s sort of the thing is, I’m sort of realizing like, what what I can DIY and what things are probably not ideal for me to do myself, or even if even if it’s sort of something I can learn over the weekend. If I take a course on Udemy, or something like that, it’s probably best that I not do that sort of thing I’ve never been strong on on accounting generally. So that’s, that’s one of the first things I want to outsource. But yeah, it’s good advice. I’ll do that sooner rather than later.
My question to you is five years from now, what what’s your firm look like? What are you doing?
Yeah, I really like the marketing aspect of the client meetings, the client consultations and signings, I’ve always had sort of, you know, I grew up in, you know, working in restaurants and retail, and that sort of thing. And I kind of credit that to my success today is being able to interact productively with other people on their best and worst days. And so I’ve grown to really like that personal face to face interaction. So I really liked doing the rainmaking, you know, going out and meeting with referral partners. And then, you know, meeting with clients coming up with a plan strategy, and putting it forward through implementation, always assigning but what I don’t like doing is sort of the menial stuff. So what I like to do is sort of stay in it, stay stay in active owner, but delegate and hire as much as I possibly can for the stuff that either doesn’t make sense for me to do, or, or I don’t like doing or doesn’t, you know, I’m just not good at. So a lot of that’s going to be like social media. I currently kind of have that on autopilot, through just a software set up called Social BS. And then the sort of the back and forth I’ll probably have, let’s see, five years, I’ll probably have one or two associate attorneys, and then probably five staff members by that point, just sort of on client service follow up. That’s sort of a big, distinguishing piece between my firm and a lot of others. Estate planning is the client experience. Call Client Service, you know, really creating something that they want to tell their friends about. And so that ends up being kind of a high touch. And, you know, high staff need, you know, think that. So that’s probably going to be when I first hires is once the revenue starts coming in somebody to be sort of a client services director to the email triage to greet people as they come in the door and that sort of thing. But I’d like to be still active in the day to day practice in the business, but probably not. Every single counseled every single signing that sort of thing. But I don’t really know that I’ll ever be the sort of remote or removed owner this because I do like that client interaction so much, but probably much bigger, I’d say probably a medium sized firm, eight to 10 people.
We’re speaking with Paul yoka. Vitesse. He’s a state planning attorney just opened his own practice down in Cary, North Carolina. With the two different locations, I’m wondering, why did you decide to include your location of carry in your firm name, the
big thing is, I’m really invested in the carry community, generally, I’m really involved in nonprofits, they’re in the care of Chamber of Commerce, and that sort of thing. But the big thing was keyword and local SEO and that sort of stuff. So people would generally be searching things like Harry’s a planning lawyer, my firm would pop up as one of the top results, I really opted to have a rally office as a convenience for clients who may live in Raleigh, but may still be referred to me, there’s somewhat of an unspoken divide between carry residents and rally residents were rally residents don’t like going to carry for stuff and vice versa. So having accessibility was always very important for me, especially with you know, referral partners who are in rally who have clients who who are in rally, so it wasn’t super important for me to have, you know, rally based, you know, search results or, you know, a lot of SEO in that market, I really just have it as kind of a secondary location, but carry state planning this, what’s unique about Carrie? Is the Lawyer saturations actually really low. There’s probably 200 lawyers total, and Carrie is probably 2000. And in rally, and rallies got about 500,000 people and Kerry’s got almost 175,000. So to me, the competition is not even close and carry. But I’ve also made a lot of really great connections in Macquarie area for referrals. And so, you know, being, you know, ingrained in and committed to the carrier community was important to me. But you know, truth be told it was largely driven by SEO and keyword research.
So if I’m looking at Cary and Raleigh on a map, and they’re 1617 minutes apart from each other, I don’t know, like, would it make more sense, I understand that, you know, part of it wouldn’t make more sense to just have one office more centralized?
It would for some practice areas, what I’ve experienced over the last four years doing this is that people are way more geographically sensitive to planning practices than they are to stuff like personal injury, immigration, that sort of stuff. Because it’s a lot more parallel to financial planning, where, you know, people get a lot of traction within, you know, four to five mile radius from their office. And generally, people just don’t want to go across town to sit down and have a meeting about estate planning. At least, that’s been my experience and the experience of a lot of lawyer friends of mine who do the same thing. So that’s generally you know, why I have won more than one office, I will traditionally be signings just out of the carry office. But my goal is actually set up a second carry office next year, you’ll probably see looking at that map carries 54 square miles in size. And I’m on the south end of us one, currently, but I’d like to be on the North and West End, which is an incredibly affluent neighborhood that doesn’t have really any estate planning lawyers on that side of town. So that’s actually my goal in probably first quarter 2019 is to set up a second carry office.
Well, I’m wondering how did you come across our podcast and which of our episodes did you find the most helpful? Oh, geez,
I actually really liked the the most recent one on digital versus referral marketing. Awesome, because I implement a little bit of both, but I actually found maximum water just from searching on a podcast database, probably. I think, y’all we’re at maybe episode three or four. So I’ve been with it since pretty close to the very beginning. I’m kind of a legal marketing and podcast junkie. So I had originally started with building the law firm podcast, I forgot who the the lawyers who had that one out in Washington, and then JD blogger and a few others. So you know, as those sort of petered off or had less consistent episode publishing, I started seeking out more and more and you also have stood the test of time. I mean, usually people don’t make it this long without you know, giving up or having some publishing inconsistencies that sort of impact their listener base, but I generally try to listen to what’s out there that’s quality and you guys are definitely rising to the top for sure.
Alright, so I want to be respectful of your time. All. So I want to start to wrap things up before I do want to remind everyone to go to the Facebook page. Get involved in the discussion there. People like Paul are there giving great advice. Also go to iTunes, wherever you get your podcast if the five star review there, Jimmy, what’s your going to wait?
Alright, so you know, I just got back from the Clio cloud conference down in New Orleans, and it was great Tyson. I wouldn’t say that it didn’t rise to the level of our old favorite icon, conferences, but it’s pretty darn close. And next year, as if, by feat, the Clio cloud conference is going to be held in San Diego, which was, you know, it’s my dream to open our new efforts. So I was very excited about that. But while I was there, I got to connect several times with our friend Billy through SEO, who has been on our show, she won an award from Clio. And she gave a great presentation. And she talked a little bit about what she talked about when we had her on the show. And that is how she’s really been focused on increasing her conversion, so not so much about the leads, but getting more leads scheduled. And then after they are scheduled getting the consults to actually take place. And by tweaking her system and focusing really hard having the whole firm Focus on conversions or signups she was able to boost her number of new clients every month from like 15 to 22. And it raised her monthly revenue from like 97,500 to almost 150,000 a month. So I think that we’re always so often focused on leads but really, if we’re focusing more on conversions and sort of tracking that stuff, I think it’s going to really give us more bang for our buck when it comes to marketing.
That’s incredible. And Billy is just amazing attorney if you don’t know Billy GET TO KNOW village she knows how to run a business. She knows that a practical She’s amazing. Alright, well you know the routine what you’re typically Yeah, so
it’s a software that I’ve recently been checking out I think I’m gonna implement soon. It’s called bom bom vom be vo MB one word. And it’s an email platform that hosts native video. So you can actually send a video within the body of the email text without it being redirected to another website. And what’s really cool is obviously, they can play the video within the email text or within the body email. But you can also alive record within the Compose. So if you’re in Gmail, for instance, there’s this little jump pad in the bottom right corner where the send button normally would be. And it’s got a record button. So you can instead of responding to emails with with text responses, like, like for me, people will reach out and say like, you know, what’s the difference between an executor and trustee or something like that I can just record myself telling them verbally, you know, face to face, essentially for them, what the response would be instead of typing it out. And obviously for that sentence, I can just direct them to a Frequently Asked Questions page, but it gives a lot more interaction to the client a lot more FaceTime. And it actually would cut down time. For a lot of practitioners who are we’re generally typing out all these responses. It’s generally about 50 bucks a month. So it would replace something like MailChimp or some other, you know, email platform. So I think I’m gonna pull the trigger on that pretty soon.
I didn’t realize is that interactive? That’s pretty awesome. I know Larry Weinstein absolutely loves bom bom. He sent me videos, everyone’s from our day, actually, it’s pretty effective. So not to check it out. Again, I guess my tip of the week is I love writing on whiteboard. We’ve got we’ve actually painted whiteboards on our walls at our offices, which are very helpful. But with something in full disclosure, it’s tough to smooth this surface sometimes. And so it’s not as clean as a regular whiteboard. So what there’s a couple of spots in our offices that we wanted to put whiteboards and so I kept seeing these ads for ready boards.com Go there. And I was really skeptical because they sent it to you in this tube. And you roll it out. I figured there’d be a bunch of bubbles. It actually went on really well. I really do like it. I’ve been using it for about a week. I really like it. So check it out. Ready? boards.com It’s a really good one. Paul, thank you so much. It’s great having you on especially in the middle of all this going on in your life. And thank you so much for coming on and good luck the