Today on the podcast Jim and Tyson sat down with Ugo Lord. Ugo, “The Interpretive Attorney”, is a nationally recognized legal expert, international keynote speaker, and business coach. As seen recently on Fox 11 News, Prof. Lord helps translate legal jargon into simple advice for everyday life. As host of The Ugo Lord Show, his motivational speeches have been viewed by over 6 million viewers helping others achieve their greatest potential.
Ugo Lord became a Trial By Peers counselor representing juveniles charged with misdemeanor offenses. Without losing a single case, he went on to teach future peer counselors ultimately winning him the award for most favored peer counselor instructor.
Armed with his legal knowledge, Ugo Lord created and currently owns Derek Lord LLC which owns and operates entities such as Every Day Black FridayTM and Lord ProductionsTM. Additionally, Ugo was named partner of the law firm Red Sapphire, P.C. His business success inspired him to create a network to allow young adults to connect, learn, and grow with each other. He later created a show based on that network called The Ugo Lord Show.
1:20 the TikTok attorney
2:40 business law
4:00 providing information
10:25 TikTok secret
20:35 creating content on an iphone
23:16 coming up with content ideas
Jim’s Hack: If you want to learn how to work a new app or platform, first download and just watch what other people are doing for a while to get to know how users behave on the platform.
Ugos Tip: Adapt with the times, by consuming information the same way your future clients are consuming information.
Tyson’s Tip: Tyson has moved his employee onboarding into a LMS like Mighty Networks and highly recommends looking into it.
Watch the interview here.
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Run your law firm the right way.
This is The Maximum Lawyer Podcast.
Your hosts, Jim Hacking and Tyson Mutrux.
Let’s partner up and maximize your firm.
Welcome to the show.
Jim: Welcome back to The Maximum Lawyer Podcast. I’m Jim Hacking.
Tyson: And I’m Tyson Mutrux. What’s up, Jimmy?
Jim: I’ve been seeing a lot of you today, Tyson. I don’t know what’s going on. This is our second episode. And we had our Max Law meeting. So, it’s like I’m spending the whole morning with you.
Tyson: Lucky you, baby. Lucky you.
Jim: Yeah. For sure. How’s everything going?
Tyson: It is going well. I mean, we did a lot of conference planning this morning. So, we recorded one episode. We did some conference planning. And then, we’re back in the saddle. But I didn’t have time to go through my Clique messages, respond to a few. And, after this, I’ll get back on my legal job. So, it’s going well.
How about you?
Jim: I’m good.
Let me go ahead and introduce our guest. His name is Ugo Lord. He’s the TikTok lawyer.
We’re really glad to have you. Ugo, thanks for coming on the show.
Ugo: Thank you so much for having me. It’s really good to be here.
Tyson: Yes. So, Ugo, tell us about your journey and how you got to become known as The TikTok Lawyer or TikTok Attorney. I don’t know which one it is. But which one is it?
Ugo: Yeah. No, you’re right. The TikTok Attorney.
It was such an interesting ride. When you think of TikTok, you normally think of, you know, young kids, middle schoolers even, on this app where people are dancing and being silly. However, it was, in January of this year, I had someone that approached me that asked if I would be willing to use TikTok as a platform to help explain the stimulus packages that were being passed here in the United States of America in order to help reach a broader audience. So, I said, “Okay. Absolutely. It sounds like a good idea. Let me go ahead and, you know, try and use that platform to help better, you know, educate everyone regarding what they are entitled to receive, how they could receive it, etc.”
And then, I mean, it just took off. I discovered that TikTok was a whole new world to help expand my practice and really reach a broader audience not just, you know, middle schoolers and high schoolers, but a huge wide range of audience members that are on TikTok right now.
Jim: All right, Ugo. So, just so that everyone can understand why don’t you tell us a little bit about your practice and how you actually make money as a lawyer?
Ugo: Yeah, that’s a really great question. So, I am a business law attorney. And what I do is I help practitioners across the country. Whether they’re dentists, whether they’re doctors, whether they’re real estate agents, I help them expand their business. I help them by providing incorporation for their businesses – how to create contracts with their clients, and, most importantly, what they can do within their own offices to help limit their liability by expanding awareness within the office – sexual harassment discussions, etc. And so, that is my day job, focusing on business law, especially when it comes to real estate, etc.
And then, when I joined TikTok, I said, “Okay, you know, let me, you know, just provide information.” You know, at the time, they called me “The interpretive attorney, providing simple advice– simple legal advice for everyday life.” And I said, “I can do that. I can do that on a platform.” But it’s really expanded into helping business owners grow as well as new businesses begin. And that is where the crux of business comes from, from individuals looking to take hold of their futures, take hold of their careers, by starting their own businesses.
Tyson: So, I’ve got a TikTok account. So, I’ll just tell you that, but I don’t use it a lot. So, I’m curious because, I mean, I’ve always thought like, “Hey, maybe there’s some creative ways of doing.” It sounds like you’re doing a great job of doing it. So, would you– I mean, would you consider TikTok more of like a lead gen type of a platform or is it more of just like an informative, you know, remember‑me type of like getting the brand out there kind of a platform?
Ugo: Yeah, that’s a really great question. The great thing about TikTok is TikTok is very current. It is what is trending right now, what is happening right now that has people’s eyes, that has their attention.
So, for example, if there is– for example, right now, the Delta variant is a huge story right now happening on TikTok. So, the question that many business owners have are, “Well, what do I need to do in my business in order to not only protect myself, protect my employees, but then protect my customers? Am I required to make our customers come in and wear masks? Other ways that we can provide a safe environment while still, you know, ensuring that our customers are safe?” So, because it is very current, it’s very what’s happening now, many people are looking for information. So, it’s when you provide that information that individuals realize that perhaps their circumstances are more unique than the general information that I am providing on TikTok. Or, perhaps, there are additional questions they have that is when it becomes lead generation.
So, there’s a way to contact me on my TikTok account, if anyone has any additional further questions.
And we have actually had to employ an entire staff in order just to answer telephone calls and lead into consultations just to allow us to keep up with what is going on. So, for those that have thought, “Oh, you know, TikTok is just this thing that’s happening and, you know, who knows what’s going on?” It can be both a massive lead generation system but also an excellent source of information if you know how to filter in the right information.
Jim: Ugo, you have 1.6 million more followers on TikTok than Tyson does. I’m wondering if– I’m wondering if– and technically you have that many more than I do as well. But I just said that to get that in there.
I’m wondering, were there particular posts that went viral that just sort of really shot you into the stratosphere? We have a good friend. His name is Mike Albee. He’s an attorney, a personal injury attorney, down in Texas. And he did this video where he put a leaf blower on his back and he stood on a skateboard because, back in the day, he was really good skateboarder, and he rode down the street with an umbrella. He used the umbrella to propel him down the street on a skateboard and it got a zillion views. So, I’m just wondering, sort of, what was the history of your growth on TikTok?
Ugo: Yeah. Jim, that’s an amazing story. That’s incredible.
And that’s another thing that I love about TikTok is that you see people that have talents that you did not even know existed. Who would have thought a leaf blower and an umbrella could make magic. And so, I’m not surprised at all why it’s gone so viral.
Yes. You’re absolutely right. I post every day. I usually post every day around 1:00 p.m. PST. I also try to go live on the platform throughout the weekdays, during my lunch break, which usually ends up being around 2:00 p.m. PST. And what you’ll notice, very quickly, is that there are certain videos that will go viral very quickly. And there are certain videos that may be equally as informative, or cool, or creative but it may not necessarily go viral.
For me, my growth centered around– it was in January of this year, there was a trend on TikTok called the hitman trend where, essentially– essentially, it was a hitman trying to take out their target, but it was literally the worst hitman in history or hit woman, if you will. So, instead of taking out their target, the hitman was constantly taking out themselves. For example, they would, you know, put a little something in someone’s glass. Then, they’ll stir the glass in order to mix in the substance. And then, they’ll taste it to make sure that it is– you can’t taste the substance and, of course, take themselves out in the process which was very interesting.
So, what I did is I, you know, put a legal take on that. What are the different degrees of murder? What do the different degrees of murder mean? How can these different degrees apply? If you hire a hitman, are you just as guilty as the hitman him/herself? And that is how my TikTok account really took off.
Even though I don’t practice criminal law at all, the idea was “What general information can I provide that is relevant to this trend that is happening?” And so, I kind of developed my own little niche in TikTok, where I primarily do reaction videos. I see what videos are already on TikTok and I discuss, “Was this legal? Was this not legal? Are they guilty? Are they not guilty? What are ways that you can protect yourself versus ways that continue to expose liability?” And that is how my account has gained significant growth through that lawyer reaction video.
But because TikTok is a trending platform, every day is different which means every post is different. Some blow up. For example, I did a post yesterday that I checked this morning and it now has 7 million views. And I just posted it less than 24 hours ago, yesterday. And then, there are other posts that I think are like super important that may only get 100,000 views. So, it’s a hit‑or‑miss type thing, but I really enjoy creating the content. I really enjoy providing the information for my followers. Therefore, you know, whether– I call it a bop, whether it bop’s, whether it hits and becomes super viral, or whether it’s just my core followers that are digesting the information, every day, for me, is exciting to post something new.
Tyson: All right, Ugo, I’m going to get some free consultation from you. So, I do car crashes and, you know, falls – things like that. Dog bite cases. So, I’m an Injury lawyer. Give me some tips on starting a TikTok account for the firm to get a bop. I want to get a bop. So, how do we get the bop?
Ugo: I love that. I love that you’re calling it a bop. You’re already ready, Tyson, like you’re there.
Tyson: I’m ready. Yes.
Ugo: The fact that you’re calling it a bop is good. Here is the most important secret to TikTok. The most important secret, because you are primarily engaged in personal injury law, the idea is to use videos that are trending. Videos that people are talking about right now and relate it to personal injury.
So, for example, there is a very popular video, currently, at the moment, that is circling the internet about a person on a skateboard, ironically, and a security officer is telling this kid on the skateboard, “You can’t skateboard here. You can’t skateboard here.” But the kid, of course, is not listening. The kid is skateboarding. And then, the security person like puts their foot out, stops the skateboard, and this kid flies down a flight of stairs. What people are loving is the story of this kid being told, “Don’t do this. Don’t do this. Don’t do this.” And now they’re flying down the stairs. But what is great for your niche and for your business is that you can discuss this video from a personal injury standpoint. And then, you become known as the go‑to person on TikTok for personal injury law.
Basically, what will happen is anytime anyone sees a video of someone being injured on TikTok, they will tag you in the video and say, “Oh, hey, I remember that viral video that you did about the kid falling down the steps in the mall. Let me reach out to you. What do you think of this video?” And the more people that see videos of you discussing people being injured, rightfully or wrongfully. Like, “Hey, this is an example where you can sue. Here’s an example where you cannot sue. What is contributory negligence? What does that mean?” etc. Then, you become the go‑to and that’s when people start calling your office, your firm, for “Hey, I have this case that just came up. Is this something that you can take?”
Tyson: I love it. I want to represent that skateboarder. I’ll tell you that right now. Get me that case. I will take that case every day of the week.
Ugo: It is fascinating. You know, the crazy, crazy thing is that, as you continue to grow on TikTok, it takes off on its own. For example, something will happen in a case that you have a video you haven’t even seen but everybody else will tell the person in that video– whether it’s a viral video or not. Everyone will tell someone else in that video, “Oh, you need to contact Tyson. Contact Tyson right away. I think you have a case.” And then, it just becomes this automated system. You’re going to have to hire an entire team just to take the calls, an automatic system where you’re, you know, having this lead generation.
So, Tyson, let me know what your TikTok is. I would love to look at your content and see what you are up to.
Tyson: I think it’s Lawyer Tyson, but I kind of want to change it to TikTok Tyson and see if it’s available. I kind of like that.
Ugo: TikTok Tyson is catchy. I really like it. TikTok Tyson is good. I like it. I like it a lot. It’s good. Very [inaudible 00:13:08].
Tyson: [inaudible 00:13:08] before someone else steals it from me.
Ugo: [laughs] Before this podcast airs, make sure you let them know you are TikTok Tyson [laughs]. Oh, that’s great.
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Jim: You’re listening to The Maximum Lawyer Podcast. Our guest today is Ugo Lord. He’s the TikTok Attorney. He has millions of followers and he has viral videos up to wazoo.
You know, so, we deal with a lot of lawyers who are very, very conservative, very old school, and I’m wondering if you’ve received pushback from old timers who think, “This is beneath the legal profession.” I’d love to hear your thoughts on that.
Ugo: Yeah, you know, that’s a great question, Jim. That is a fantastic question because, yes. Do I receive pushback from the guru’s of the industry? Yes. Yes, I absolutely do. But, guess what? It is not 1980. The times have changed. And I completely understand and respect the strategy of, you know, having that law firm with the wood walls and all the law books on the bookshelf behind you. I respect it. I understand that.
When I graduated from law school, I did not graduate in that generation. I graduated from Loyola in 2013 where LexisNexis and Westlaw dominated legal research. That is, I didn’t need to, you know, have this law library in my practice. What I needed was a quick way in order to do legal research for my clients. And that is the time that we live in. Everyone and everything is online.
Word of mouth will always be popular. And word of mouth will always be an excellent way to generate revenue. However, if I am looking to reach a new generation of entrepreneurs, which is what my business’ focus is on, entrepreneurs that are starting their own practices, that are starting their own business, I need to be where those entrepreneurs are. And those entrepreneurs are on social media.
So, I recently just did a collaboration with whom I think is probably the number one social media attorney out there. His name is Mike Mandell. Lawbymike is what he goes by. And we’re just having a conversation about how much things have changed in the industry. And I believe that, by being where the clients are, it puts us ahead of the game from traditional marketing billboards, you know, radio advertisement, television advertisement. Nothing wrong with them. Nothing wrong with those forms of advertisement. They work.
The main difference is what I do is completely free. It doesn’t co– in fact, not only is it free, I get paid to do it. I get paid to do it. TikTok pays me to make these videos. And it’s just an advertising platform as opposed to me now having to pay someone else to advertise for me.
So, do I get pushback? Yes. But the only pushback that I get are from the guru’s of our profession not from the clients that are actually booking. Does that make sense?
Jim: Love it. Love it.
Tyson: I think it’s fantastic. I think it’s really great. And I just like how you’ve adapted. You’ve taken this new platform. You’ve been able to use it to your advantage, so I think that’s great.
I mean, here’s the reality, within the next year, there’s going to be another platform, and another platform, and another platform. We’ve got to keep adapting to that. So, I think that’s really, really good.
Do you stick exclusively to TikTok or do you expand into other platforms with your videos?
Ugo: You know, it’s interesting. That’s a really good question.
In January, I also became a legal correspondent. So, I, you know, began providing interviews for local media primarily centering around the stimulus package and, you know, the different incentives, unemployment insurance, the child tax credit, etc. And by doing these interviews, by becoming a legal correspondent, I needed to post these videos on different platforms. So, I have a website, ugolord.com, super outdated website. But I needed to put these videos on other platforms. So, I began putting them on Instagram. I began putting them on TikTok. When TikTok took off, when it skyrocketed, I focused exclusively on TikTok.
It is now, for the first time, that I’m receiving, you know, contacts from media professionals in terms of PR agents, managers, agencies, that are now saying, “Oh, take these videos and put it cross platform.” So, now, what I’ve just recently started doing, within the past month really, is taking every video that I post on TikTok just essentially reposting that on Instagram, reposting that on Snapchat. So, I believe the strategy is best posting it on all platforms. It does require a little bit more time.
So, to my professionals, my fellow colleagues out there that is watching, that is listening and watching to this podcast, what I recommend is, if you don’t have the time, if you’re saying to yourself, “Oh, my gosh. Yes, it’ll be great to do these TikTok’s that everyone’s talking about, but I just don’t have the time. I’m too busy.” For very, very cheap, you can hire a high school student who is looking for a job and who knows social media better than you and I ever will. You can hire them for a very affordable price to manage your social media page where all you’re doing is spending 30 minutes a week – just imagine that, 30 minutes a week to make seven days of content, if not more, in order to advertise your practice. I don’t know anyone who would turn down 30 minutes of their time for, potentially, millions, and millions, and millions of eyeballs of growth. And if you don’t have the time to manage it, don’t manage it. There are many young kids out there who know this industry, who know social media, that is eager to manage it for you.
Jim: I love that idea. And it begs a question that I honestly don’t know the answer to. And it’s probably going to come across as very simple, Ugo. And that is, do you make all your TikTok content with your phone or do you have a higher tech setup?
Ugo: I am so glad that you– I am so glad that you asked that. I have an iPhone. And everything that I make is on an iPhone. And we have colleagues here, law by Mike, Mike Mandell, that is. He goes by lawbymike on all social media platforms. He has a whole production. Like he has an entire production with transitions and the music. I mean, his looks like commercials. When you see any of his videos, they look like commercials. And all of that is shot on an iPhone. No equipment necessary.
Using your regular phone and just a ring light, which is what I have here, just a light to light you up can do wonders– can do wonders. So, no need for special equipment. No need for any of that. Just a regular iPhone and a little creativity is all you need to have the next viral video on TikTok and other platforms.
Tyson: Well, in that same vein, is there a certain way that you need to set up your iPhone? I mean, you know this off the top of your head but maybe like should you set it up a certain way? Because I’m assuming, right out the box, it’s not going to give you the best quality? So, is there a certain way to set it up?
Ugo: Yeah. There’s this great– for anyone who’s wondering the technical aspects of this, especially if you have an iPhone, go ahead and go into your camera. Go into your video settings. And in the top right‑hand corner– I’m just going to show this on my phone. In the top right‑hand corner, you’ll see something that says HD. And then, you’ll see something that says frames per second. The default on my phone is HD and 30 frames per second. You can change that. For example, yours is 4k, 30 frames per second. And you can even change it as high as 4k 60 frames per second. Those are cinematic movies. Cinematic movies are filmed in 4k, 30 frames per second or 4k 60 frames per second.
Your iPhone, you have all the tools that you need to film a cinematic quality movie. So, all you have to do is just change that setting and it will go from your regular everyday picture that you take of your kids to something that you can film in a high 4k quality and upload onto these social media platforms.
Great question. Fantastic question.
Jim: Ugo, we talked a little earlier about sort of riding the coattails of things that are currently popular on TikTok. Besides that, what other tips do you have for content creation? Because I think that’s where a lot of people get stuck. It’s like, “Oh, I’m so boring. I don’t really have anything interesting to say or new.” Where do you come up with new ideas?
Ugo: I guarantee you that everyone that I’ve ever heard say that– and I hear that a lot. Oh, I can’t do this because I won’t know what to talk about every day, because I post every day. So, they’re like, “I won’t know what to talk about every day.”
If you even turn on the news and see what is happening in this world, whether it’s politically related or whether it’s just, you know, a local news of man drives into a gas station of– Tyson, for example, a man drives into a gas station and the car catches on fire. Luckily, he was pulled out by his dog. A story something like that, that is like personal injury gold.
Every single day, there is something. There is something. Why? Because our audience, pretty much, they don’t really know much about the law. And what we’re explaining to them is basic law. We’re not diving into, you know, the fundamentals of the law, the exceptions, etc., etc. They just want to know weird, quirky stories that they didn’t know before.
Let me give an example of one of my most viral videos. In high schools– I’m not sure, you know, what kind of high school that the two of you went to but, when I went to high school, in my locker room, when I went to high school, there was a locker room. And then, there was this window where the coach would be. A coach would have the coach’s room. And the coach’s room would look out into the locker room etc, etc. I was doing a video about something like that. And I said, “You know what? Let me just look up the law” because I didn’t even know the law about this. And then, I discovered two‑way mirrors which are these mirrors that allow you to see in out, but they can’t see you because it looks like a mirror to them. Two‑way mirrors are 100% perfectly legal in high school locker rooms and high school bathrooms. So, I just did a video. Fun fact, a two‑way mirror is perfectly legal in a high school locker room in a high school video. And it took off. Why? Because there’s just a quirky area of the law that people did not know.
Mayhem is another quirky area of the law that people really do not know about. You know, dismemberment and stuff. They like things like that. And it just becomes– it’s weird, but it just becomes this source of, “Hey, did you know about x, y, and z?” I promise you there is content for days is what I like to say. Content for days. You will never run out of content. Not on this platform because all you just have to do is just start scrolling on the different videos and you’ll come up with incredible ideas of what you can do to really help people understand the law a little better because that’s really what it’s really about. It’s really about helping people. Whether they become your client or not, if you can give them a little takeaway of information they did not know, that is the goal.
Tyson: I love it. This is such good stuff. I could probably talk to you for hours but we’ve got to wrap things up.
Before I do, I want to remind everyone to go to the Facebook group. Get involved there. If you’re interested in The Guild– let’s get Ugo into The Guild, Jimmy, go to maxlawguild.com. And if you’re interested in the conference– we also need to get Ugo to come speak at the conference next year, go to maxlawcon.com.
Jimmy, what’s your hack of the week?
Jim: Well, I really enjoyed our call today.
Ugo, thanks so much for coming on.
And it reminded me of one of my favorite books by Gary Vaynerchuk. It’s called Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook. And it’s about giving away content and sort of sharing. Now, one thing that’s interesting is it has on here– it has a picture of all the icons of the platform. So, Google+ is gone. Tumblr’s gone. And Vine is gone. And Vine was the one that was closest, I think, to TikTok. And the reason I pulled out the book because the lesson that Gary talked about in there is that when you want to learn a new platform, like Ugo on TikTok, the best thing to do is just to like get the app and just watch it for like two or three weeks. You don’t have to do anything. Just learn the rhythm of the platform because each platform has its own rhythm.
Jim: You don’t want to be the person, the guy or the gal, who comes in and does things like the wrong way. You want to sort of see how the community is and then just sort of take your own riff off that sort of like Ugo said earlier. I think that’s really important is to sort of learn the platform before you try to start doing all this content.
Ugo: Very well said. I love that. It’s excellent. You’re absolutely right. Couldn’t agree with you more.
Tyson: Great, great advice.
All right, Ugo, we–
By the way, sad news, TikTok Tyson is taken. It looks like it’s taken by a kid. I’m going to probably buy it from them but [inaudible 00:27:34]. I’ll buy it from them if I get it. But it’s Lawyer Tyson for now. We’ll stick with that.
But, Ugo, we always ask our guests to give a tip or a hack of the week. Do you have a tip or a hack for us?
Ugo: Yes, I do. Make sure, wherever you are, whatever you’re doing, adapt with the times. Do that by consuming information from the same method that your future clients are going to be consuming information from.
So, for anyone who’s watching right now, if you’ve never had an Instagram, if you’ve never had a Snapchat, if you’ve never even had a TikTok, look up your favorite news program in those platforms. For example, one of my favorites is askstaytuned. It is a program by NBC that was developed for Snapchat exclusively. Askstaytuned, it is a bite size best highlight news of the day, in 30‑seconds to one‑minute videos. You start watching those videos and start consuming the information the way that your future clients will consume that information, then you’ll be able to regurgitate that information in the way that your future clients want to hear it. Check it out.
Tyson: I like it. love it. It’s great. Very good.
My tip of the week is actually a– I’m not going to give a specific learning management system. They’re called LMS’s but there’s a variety of ‘em out there. There’s, you know, Mighty Networks. There’s Kajabi or whatever. But what we’ve started doing is moving our new employee onboarding over into a new LMS that we started using. We use actually Mighty Networks for our deposition training for clients. We’re going to do something very similar with a different LMS for new employee onboarding. It’s actually really, really cool what you can do with it. And you could even include little bitty quizzes in there to make sure that they’ve got just the basics. For example, one of the questions is, okay, “What’s the firm’s phone number?” right? Like you want them to know these things off the top of their head. So–
Tyson: So, anything, “What’s the firm website? What’s the firm address?” is all that. So, we’re building all that stuff in. It’s going to be pretty awesome. So, that is my tip of the week.
Ugo, thank you so much for coming on. This has been a lot of fun. I learned a bunch. And now I’m excited about wanting to use TikTok.
Ugo: I am excited for you. And just like Jim said, times are constantly changing, things are constantly adapting. But once you get your feet wet, I promise you, no matter what the next platform is you’ll be ready. I am so grateful to you, Tyson. I’m so grateful to you, Jim, for inviting me on the program. Thank you so much. I am very honored to be here and I thank you both for your time. Thank you.
Tyson: Thank you. You’re a real pro, man. I love it. It’s great.
Ugo: Thank you. It’s great.
Jim: Thanks, Ugo.
Ugo: Thank you, guys.
Ugo: You guys have a great day. Be safe. Bye, everyone.
Tyson: You, too. Thank you. Bye.
Thanks for listening to The Maximum Lawyer Podcast.
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Have a great week and catch you next time.