Today on the show we have Pete Salsich, an experienced intellectual property attorney whose practice is focused on advising large and small companies and entrepreneurs regarding the creation, protection and use of intellectual property, in both litigation and transactional counseling, particularly in the media, technology and entertainment industries. In this episode we’ll discuss leaving a big firm to start a smaller practice and the perception challenges involved, working in intellectual property and entertainment law, and creating a personal brand while working in a larger firm. https://www.capessokol.com/people/pete-salsich-iii/ Hacking’s Hack: Buy Dan Kennedy’s new book “Marketing to the Affluent”. The introduction alone is worth the investment. Tyson’s Tip: It’s summer time, we’re in the middle of June, things start to slow down, take a little time and sharpen the saw. Use this time to refine yourself and your craft. Pete’s Tip: If you don’t figure out a way to have your clients tell you about their business without charging them you never get the chance to find out how to help them see the forest from the trees. For more content from us please subscribe to our Youtube Channel Don’t forget to sign up for MaxLawCon20! Thanks so much for listening to the show! If you want to know more about this and keep on maximizing your firm, please join our Facebook Group or like us on Facebook and comment! You can also go to MaximumLawyer.com or, if you’d prefer, email us at: info@maximumlawyer.com Interested in being on the show? Shoot us an email at support@maximumlawyer.com or message us on Facebook! Welcome to the Maximum Lawyer Podcast. Partner up, and maximize your firm.
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Transcripts: The Winding Path with Pete Salsich
Pete Salsich
You’ve got to constantly build your toolkit. And you can’t really think and more than about three or four year increments because you’re Barnton. Your mind has been trained in those increments from high school and college and law school. And you’re used to seeing those timeframes. So if you can take each of those timeframes and try to make yourself the best lawyer, you can be at the end of that timeframe, then you can keep your eyes and ears open for what comes next.
Unknown Speaker
Run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum lawyer podcast, podcast, your hosts, Jim hacking, and Tyson Meatrix. Let’s partner up and maximize your phone. Welcome to the show.
Jim Hacking
Welcome back to the maximum lawyer Podcast. I’m Jim hacking.
Tyson Mutrux
And I’m taking metrics what they’re doing. Oh, Tyson,
Jim Hacking
I’m really excited about today’s show. We have one of my longtime mentors, a real hero of mine, someone that I’ve known since law school. You know, I told the story the other day, I was on law journal with Pete and when, when your Law Journal staff member you resent the hell out of the editor in chief and the rest of the people on the board because they’re giving you all this work to do. And then then I became the editor in chief. And then I resented all the people who were on Law Journal underneath us because they were lazy not doing any work. So Pete and I have an interesting history together after law school. He was working at one of the big firms in town and I was working for a crazy man who wanted to file a lawsuit against the comic book manufacturer for allegedly taking the personality and the publicity rights for a local hockey player. And Pete ended up defending that lawsuit. And he was working on that lawsuit long after I was gone from the crazy attorney. So and then, and then later on, Pete and I met up when we were both thinking about starting our firms through our friend Wendy Warner. So we’ve been together for a long time we’ve seen each other succeed and fail, and it’s just been a great friendship. So Pete, welcome
Pete Salsich
to the show. Thanks, Jim. Thanks, Jason. I appreciate it. I echo what Jim said about our tortured history. I had a conference a couple weeks ago, I was inundated and reminded over and over again about the importance of systems. And it recalled my days on the Law Journal when we had no systems really, but we had Amani, Jim’s wife who was key to getting the issues out. And somehow that all kind of came full circle when I was hearing all the stuff about the importance of systems and knowing what you do well, and what you don’t do well. So yeah, it’s you know, it’s great to kind of circle all the way back with you. So
Tyson Mutrux
give out like you said, pizza us name. Pete. It’s pizza sauce, it it’s not sausage, right? It’s
Pete Salsich
all thick. That’s correct. Yeah. It’s,
Tyson Mutrux
you know, it’s funny. So I, I loved I told you at the conference, I loved your dad, he was one of my professors. And for forever, I’ve always thought it was sausage until you and I talked to the conference. And so I always say, oh, Pete sausage. And so he’s, anyway, your father was a professor loved him. I told you that before he he’s great. I want to ask you something. For my for my real first question. Usually, you put something in your email yesterday that you’re going to be singing this morning. And so your voice is getting you ready. What the hell are you talking about?
Pete Salsich
So I play my one of the reasons that I do the work that I do is because I’m really a sort of below average musician and singer, and an occasionally once in a while successful illustrator. And I never really made a living doing those creative proceedings. So when I finally was able to get my law focus back around to creatives, I finally realized I could bring value to people who could make a living being creative. And in that sense, I still to this day, play music in different local bands. And I figured I’d just do warm up by singing a little Neil Young to get things going this morning. So it’s sort of how I start my day walking around and annoying my family. I love it.
Tyson Mutrux
I love it. Pretty much the same thing that Jim does, only he has no musical talent. So that’s perfect. So talk about your story. How did you get to where you are now? Where do you work and kind of more? Jim sort of teased a little bit, but talk more about that journey.
Pete Salsich
There’s a couple ways I can characterize my journey and the biggest one is that there was no charted path. I got really good advice when I was a very young lawyer. And I was very young lawyer in my early 30s. Because part of my Platt path included as you referenced my dad, the law professor, I was absolutely going to go to law school when I got out of college until I decided that the only thing I knew for certain when I got out of college was that I was not going to go to law school. So I put it off for about seven years. So I had a restaurant business with a friend was a illustrator sold playground equipment basically did a bunch of stuff to put off law school. So then when I got started, I was in kind of a hurry. And I got really good advice from a guy that I started with in Denver DJ coiffeur years ago. And he just said, You’ve got to constantly build your toolkit. And you can’t really think in more than about three or four year increments, because you’re borrowing your mind has been trained in those increments in high school and college and law school. And you’re used to seeing those timeframes. So if you can take each of those timeframes and try to make yourself the best lawyer, you can be at the end of that timeframe, then you can keep your eyes and ears open for what comes next. And so keep adding to your toolkit. If you haven’t done this, try to do it if you had you know, whatever it is that you feel like you’re lacking. Try to build that experience so that you can keep your eyes and he’s open. And of course about three years into that stint. My mother got sick here in St. Louis, we, my wife and I moved back to St. Louis from Denver, and I met a guy named Mike Tyson, who has been a probably the biggest mentor in my career at a firm called stents and Magan Possehl. In St. Louis. It’s now Stinson, Leonard street, I think. But we he had a little case, said it might be interesting. It was a comic book case. It’s the one Jim mentioned. And he said it’s probably a First Amendment summary judgment thing. But if you’re interested in working on it, we could probably knock it out. Well, that ended up being about 10 years of litigation. Over write up publicity, we really rewrote the right of publicity law on a national basis, because it created a massive split among the courts that had ruled on it. We went to the Missouri Supreme Court, we had two four week jury trials, he went to the US Supreme Court on a certification, lots and lots of law journal articles. And by the end of that, and all of this was in a large law firm setting. But by the end of that I was a comic book lawyer, I had tried cases against recording companies on behalf of artists, we had done a lot of different work in sort of this entertainment creative space. And it became began to be clear to me that there was one thing that all these cases had in common, besides just the lawyers making money, and that was that there was not a piece of paper. At the outset, there was not a piece of paper before there was money. And always that piece of paper would have probably needed to have about two paragraphs. And if it was there, everybody would have looked at it and said, Yeah, I agree. That’s correct. That would have signed it, and then never would have been a lawsuit. And so little by little, you know, when you when you when you try when the cases that you try are only, you know, sort of long, large civil cases, they almost always settle. And so you end up drafting lots of contracts as a litigator because you’re and you really are a negotiator because almost the entire time in that litigation, you’re functionally positioning your client to end up with a better deal than they might like to have star. And so you sort of became a transactional lawyer in the process of being an IP litigator. And I just found that that was something I enjoyed much more than the fight itself. Certainly get ramped up when the fights going on. And I’m, you know, love to engage in it. But the most satisfaction came from getting a good resolution that we could control rather than leave in the hands of a jury or a judge. And all of that was happening at Blackwell Sanders, large firm in St. Louis, in Kansas City that in the mid 2000s, was really innovative. For a large law firm, they had a really robust mentorship program for the young attorney. And a very, very clear statement, you knew from day one, sort of what was expected of you to move to year two and year three. And I got involved and I ran the summer program there for five years and this charge of, you know, 15, summer associates and all of those programs and I really enjoyed that part of the process, because it made me a better lawyer as I began to move into the category of someone who could mentor young lawyers, and I would have probably still been in a tall building had there not been a merger a couple of years later, with hush and effing burger and I don’t you know, the berms merged for good reasons, bad reasons, no reasons, but they thought it was a good reason at the time. The out come for me though, was that conflicts, essentially new conflicts because of the merger drove away most of the work that the Blackwell had supported me in building up in a in a in sort of a soft IP area that Blackwell sent me to Seattle to learn software licensing and blogging law offerings and sent one of my partners to speak at Comic Con on character copyrights and another guy I went to South by Southwest and was putting on music festivals, they were encouraged this group of young IP litigators to really grow our practices in these emerging areas. And about two years later, we were all that was put on a dead stop because of the merger. And conflicts are driving away all of our work. And all of us left over a period of about a year and a half. This group of five of us and I, after looking around at other law firms, called my friend Wendy Warner, who told me that Jim packing and others were thinking about the same thing. And we sat down at Wendy’s office one day, and the outcome of some of those meetings was me and one other guy jumping out of a tall building and becoming two guys behind the restaurant, and starting a firm called the Brickhouse Law Group. And this was back in 2009. And we were convinced than that, we could attract the same type of work that was coming to us a large law firm, because we were the same lawyers. We invested in prologue, which was, you know, a great big, clunky, but pretty robust software program at the time, thinking that’s what we needed, we needed to manage massive numbers of documents to do the same type of litigation. And we focused on entertainment IP litigation. What we found is that the all the our friends in the big firms weren’t quite as interested in sending us conflicted work. And we would talk to a lot of people and they would say, Yeah, you guys are great. But I need to cover myself with the board. And if I hire Brian cave, and somebody goes bad, at least I won’t be blamed for my hiring decision. So pretty quickly, we realized that we were going to have to become, you know, for lack of a better term street lawyers, we I spent my entire career to that point, looking, you know, down on the street from the 27th floor, and practicing in great big conference rooms, and with big teams and sort of thought that’s what the law practice was like, and then realized very quickly that the overwhelming majority of lawyers do just the opposite. And it took a while to learn that process. And Jim and others were kind of instrumental and helping us really get out of our own way and begin to think differently. And we made a big decision, we were struggling, we teamed up with somebody we got, we were, you know, staff on cases, for friends, we did whatever we could to keep the doors open, as you guys know. But one day, we just finally had with some help with some others who were helping us think about it, we realized that we need to just do one thing. And that’s it and entertainment, we were not going to do appeals, we were not going to do any other type of work that we were taking in. And we began to seek out people as to build a referral network. So once a week, we would find a local St. Louis law firm that was a small firm, that maybe did a certain type of corporate work or just something estate planning things that we didn’t do. But we felt like we needed to be able to make good referrals, if people asked us, and we would look them up, you know, make sure they didn’t do what we did. And send an email or call and say, hey, we’d like to meet you can we come take you to lunch and hear about your practice, we’re trying to build an outbound referral network for what we did. And that had was was really transformative, because we realized that if we worked first to give work away, of course, in those conversations, we got to tell them what we did. And every once in a while that work would come back to us. And so we we ran a nice little run of success at brick house, one of our highest profile cases was representing Victor windmill, who’s a tattoo artists to put the tattoo on Mike Tyson boxers face. And when the Warner Brothers and the hangover two movie decided to copy that same tattoo on to Ed Holmes’s face in the opening scenes, we recognize that as copyright infringement. And we sue Warner Brothers and had a great run with a preliminary injunction hearing the day before the movie was set to open on Memorial Day weekend. And had a lot of you know, had a knife ultimately got a settlement that was certainly very important for our client and got some nice rulings from the court along the way and really developed sort of the
Pete Salsich
reputation for being able to take on those high profile entertainment case. But I was really still gravitated towards the transactional work and I had a small client at the time called coolfire. It was just making they were they were commercial production house basically making commercials for advertising agencies. And I’d gotten to know them right about the time I was going into pool, going into breakouts. And one day that our founder came over to our office and said, Hey, I think I want to Started TV company, maybe some make some apps still got this talent, people moving back to town, we want to do some of this new stuff. This is 2010. And the researcher so we help them figure out what IP they had in one company to move into the other. And little by little started doing writing their contracts. You know, if we had to get talent tied up or a television show, we had to figure out what that contract looked like. It wasn’t, they weren’t pre conference all over the internet to, to copy. So we learned just to write down the words that we thought needed to be there. And, you know, it’s a nice surprise when you get the contract back from an LA attorney. And it wasn’t all marked up. It was, it was the right type of contract. And again, we learned a lesson that you know, if your contracts, just say the words that you intend to say, there could be pretty good. Little by little that grew and grew until 2013, when I had spent about six months in a row not working on any other client. Our retainers were through the roof with with full fire, and yet we were working at 50 cents on the dollar. And I hadn’t done any business development nine months. And they needed an in house counsel. And they were either going to hire somebody who was job was to fire me. Or I could take the job. So I headed up the search committee, I pulled a little Dick Cheney. And after about a month I nominated myself and went in house in May of 2013. and spent the next five and a half years, as in house counsel for a group of companies that does that intercepted television, digital entertainment, commercial software development, spun off a couple of companies in the process and learn the the art of being a startup lawyer, and all of the transactional work and equity raising and corporate governance that goes into that. And then about a year and a half ago as one of the software companies in that family took on a significant VC investment, and decided as part of Act and move the legal work to their large law firm. I still retain the work for part of the company, but it was no longer enough to be full time in house. And I came out back into the private practice world and in the last year, but not wanting to be that litigator that I want to I wanted to do the type of work I spent the last six years really honing. And one of the conversations I had was with Jim hacking a few months ago and Jim and his wisdom just sat me down and said, Well, you know what to do. And I told him that there was a saying that coolfire used to have that we make things for screens. And he said, Well, your screen lawyer, you do the deals that end up on screens. And he was right. So, you know, in typical me fashion, I didn’t do it right away. Jim told me to go get the URL that night, I waited about six months. But luckily nobody else had the idea in between. And I have started to mold my practice now. As a screen lawyer, and I rejoined my old partner, Mike Cohn, late last year, we practice at a firm called capes, SoCal, you’re in St. Louis. It’s about a 30 years lawyer firm that has been around for about 20 years got an excellent reputation to a lot of work in the litigation practice and tax and estate planning and real estate, they really didn’t have much of a nothing in the area. But I did. My own partner was doing intellectual property, but still from a litigation standpoint. And so they were interested in me sort of joining him and grilling them more robust transactional entertainment and IP practice. And that’s what I’ve been doing for about the past six months or so. And that pretty much brings me up to date.
Jim Hacking
That’s awesome. Pete. So right now, where are your clients coming from?
Pete Salsich
They kind of fall into two batches. And maybe a third that is beginning to grow. And one of my biggest struggles in this process is try to try to answer that question that you just had. Jim. There’s a certain percentage that I just have known over the years, I’ve gotten to know when I was just cool buyer’s counsel, I was able to participate with some of the the St. Louis based startup accelerators. One in particular, I spent a lot of time with stadia ventures. And it’s a startup accelerator where the only common denominator among the cowork companies they have something to do with sports or sports technology. And in that in those processes, I got to know a lot of people both in the creative industry here in town and in the startup industry, but I was never handing out business cards I was I could not be their lawyer because I was in house for a company and that’s kind of a nice way to get to know people because you’re sort of rubbing shoulders as as an equal as a mentor. So when I when I first stepped back I got into private practice, I was a little bit was wearing multiple hats, I was still doing work for coolfire, but also able to do work for other companies like cool five. And Cooper has a big footprint in town and I was wanting to be conscientious about not just hanging my hat out is you know Coronavirus lawyers available for you kind of thing. But little by little word got out. And so there’s a segment of my clientele that are smaller emerging production companies, filmmakers, digital content providers. You know, Kent is a great example of the type of client that I think fits very well. And that that he’s a, you know, creating videos creating content for others. And then there’s a set of basic agreements that companies like that will run into all the time, and I essentially had built those better than probably anybody else in the area, there’s that group of clients. And that’s really come largely by word of mouth, then there are the occasional referral from within the firm. And there’s an element of that sort of cross selling, that we do and we’re working on and we’re getting better and better at it came really conscientious group about that, that’s been helpful. And then the last category is, is one that I don’t have any experience with. But every once in a while, we’re starting to get more and that’s the simple, you know, Google search, somebody’s looking for an entertainment lawyer, or something to do with entertainment. And we pop up. Because there really isn’t anybody else in town, there are other lawyers who have entertainment related practices. But I don’t think there’s anybody else certainly in this region, that is focusing on building that as a holistic practice. And so right now, those clients are kind of coming from a mix of place.
Tyson Mutrux
What do you think you need to do better? I mean, is it? Is it getting clients? Is it getting clients in a different way? I mean, is it do you need to network more? Do you need to do videos? I mean, like, do you think it has to do with systems? What do you what do you think it is that you need to do better?
Pete Salsich
Well, I obviously have been spending a lot of time on this and conferences been really helpful in focusing my thinking on it. I think that both on one I do think I’m pretty self aware. But I also like, a lot of people have a blind spot. And I do know that systems are not my sweet spot, personally. And so one of the challenges that I’ve had in the last six months is, you know, I, on one hand, I’m excited to be back in an environment where I have support, I’ve good, good paralegal support and assistance and things like that. But I never worked in that environment. As a transactional attorney, I work in that environment as a litigator, which had a certain workflow and process and I was just plugged in, never had to think about it. So part of my challenge is building out my support team for my practice within this firm, and I definitely have the people who are interested. But I’ve got to be the building of that practice, that practice doesn’t exist. And so even though I’m in a 30, lawyer farm, for all intents purposes, I am running my own, firm or practice, I need to get better at that, so that I can spend more time out speaking. And that would include video I experience when I get the chance to speak publicly, I get clients, it’s almost a one to one ratio. Not too long ago, I had an opportunity to speak at a lunch meeting for the American Marketing Association, monthly lunch and learn. And I talked about copyrights and contracts and work for hire, and just basic rules that govern the stream of content that flows whenever ever content is getting created and used by people or so forth. And that always leads to people walking up afterwards. And this most recent experience lead to really significant clients that I don’t think I would have had any other way to get access to. So I know that I need to spend more time out doing that. But I, when I get the work in, I ended up feeling like I’ve got to do it all myself. And then a week or two will go by and I haven’t done any of the business development work. And then that works done. And now I have this gap. And it’s sort of this treadmill that I’m on where it sort of chicken one month feathers, the next type of thing. And so for me, I think figuring out the right way to build my internal system so that I can focus on a regular consistent basis and getting out there is that that’s my growth. That’s my need RFP. So
Jim Hacking
one thing is I think you should if you haven’t already, you should read the email because the book is all about the internal conflict between the people who want to bring in the business and then actually having to do the work and how there’s always a conflict between the two. So think about that. But I have a question for you. So I heard what you said about giving talks and you always get a one to one. Business, you always get a case out of a public speaking event. And I’m wondering, why isn’t the screen lawyer on YouTube? I mean, I think that if, if that’s true if you’re if, when I was giving talks, immigration talks at local universities, I would always be really thrilled to come back with one case. But when I shifted to YouTube, obviously, that’s much more scalable. You don’t even have to leave your office. And I just think that it’d be somewhat ironic if the screen lawyer weren’t?
Pete Salsich
Yeah, no, I? Well, listen, the the answer to that is that’s in the works. I’m fortunate to have an excellent marketing professional that works with us in caves, Alex shank, she, she gets it. And she’s got the fortitude to try to do that with lawyers, which is, you know, a difficult challenge. But she’s been helping me build out the screen lawyer as an Instagram platform as a social media platform. And we’ve got a schedule, I’ve actually got a in my office, a flowchart of topics for evergreen content, and then other rotating content that I’m in the process of starting to build. And part of that goal is to do just as you said, do a YouTube channel. You know, ask the entertainment lawyer type of questions. It’s sort of the way I like the model that you have Jim in the immigration area. And there are enough issues that pop up on a regular basis. I checked my feeds every morning, and there’s something that’s that I could certainly spend 90 seconds talking about. And putting that up. And I haven’t started that yet. But that is definitely on. So
Tyson Mutrux
So I want to I want I want to dig a little bit deeper in this because my guess is you’ve been saying this is in the works for several months. And he ever recorded one damn video. So how be honest how long has this been in quotes in the works?
Pete Salsich
Several months, January. Yeah. Okay. And I have recorded, I recorded one video recorded on that was only to put that that the point of that was to put the tell you guys what I wanted to speak about. And that’s literally the only video I found. Why
Tyson Mutrux
what is the what you’re doing is in everyone does this crap, and I don’t understand it. You’ve got to plan this thing out. And you’ve got to do this, and you’ve got all these diagrams on your wall. It’s great. It looks really cool. But you’re not doing anything. So like we do me a favor. Okay. Just just when we get done with us, I want you to record a video just to talk about what you do and put in the Facebook group we do that. Yeah, we get into what time it is, what is the holdup? Right. And I know you’re saying you want to plan it. But what is the real hold
Pete Salsich
up? What is it? I don’t know. I don’t know if it’s? That’s a really good question. Because I can’t come up with a good answer. I don’t have a reason that some part of it is it? It doesn’t. To be honest, I think on a day by day basis, there always seems to be something that’s slightly more important or feels like I gotta respond more quickly. And maybe on some other level, you know, I talk a good game, but maybe I don’t quite believe it. As much as I say to be honest with you. It’s a very fair question, guys, because it’s when I battle with
Tyson Mutrux
so let me sorry, Jim, I know you may have a question. But here’s the thing. You know what, you know what you’re doing, you would put some stuff together for me and Jim, it looks great. It’s it’s stuff that every lawyer should know about. That they probably you and I had some conversations yesterday. And a couple of things came up about like my Personal Contract things that should be in it or not in it. I mean, there’s little bitty things you can shoot every single day. It doesn’t have to be this pretty polished video. Just get them out there in what you’re saying about you know, things come up. It’s because your days not planned out. I mean, you need to you know, this is a very important thing if you’re the screen lawyer Jimsy exactly right. You need to be on screen. And so you need to every single day, have a 10 minute slot, carved out 15 minutes, 20 minutes, however long you need every single day, and you shoot the video, find someone that can edit it there. I talked about this at a conference. For people make excuses about video. It’s bullshit because there are a ton of people that shoot video in the group that can tell you where to go to for editing for production. What cameras are you need, what equipment you need all your leads your cell phone, and so forth. until they can edit it, shoot the video every single day, get it to them and then have him publish it too. I mean, it’s really freakin simple once you start doing it, so just just start doing it, man, you know enough excuses. Okay, so will you commit? Now over the next 12 weeks, will you commit to doing 15 Total videos? That’s nothing till just over one to one a week we do that.
Pete Salsich
The team total videos over 12 weeks? Yes. All right, we’ve got to deal. Sorry, Jimmy. No, I was right. This is what I need Tyson you are? I keep seeing people who comment on on your approach to dealing with them. And everyone is always appreciative. So yes, I will do that. Because you’re right. I know I need to do it. I do know that. But a week will go by and like, next week. So all right, I’m gonna make that commitment. And I know you can hold me good. Fantastic
Tyson Mutrux
by Pete. So we’ve had a really good conversation. Unfortunately, we do. Have we’ve got to wrap it up. Before we do. I want to remind everyone to go to the Facebook group get involved there. My guess is there’s a lot of lawyers in that group that need you, Pete. So I highly recommend that people reach out the PDF. He knows what the hell he’s doing. Trust me, he’s done some work for us. It’s he’s really, really good. Also, if you don’t mind taking a couple of minutes, going to iTunes or wherever podcasts give us a five star review. It really does help make the difference. Jimmy, what’s your second week?
Jim Hacking
All right, for my hack of the week, I want to recommend to all of our listeners that listen to our by Dan Kennedy’s newest edition of his marketing to the affluent. The introduction alone is worth the investment for the book. Dan Kennedy has intense opinions. He’s very strong willed, and I think he even likes Trump a little bit. But the opening, opening chapter of the book details, everything you need to know about the current state of the economy. If you’re not someone who follows the economic ups and downs of your own clients, or your client base, you need to and this book will give you a great primer on it. And then getting into how to market to the affluent themselves and how to target the affluent in your marketing. It’s a very valuable book, I read the original. And now he has an updated version to reflect current realities, I highly recommend it.
Pete Salsich
Good act Jimmy,
Tyson Mutrux
I pizza, you know the routine, you’ve been listening for quite a while you’re friends with Jim, you and I are becoming fast friends, what is your tip or hack
Pete Salsich
of the week? My tip of that hack of the week is when you if you’re a transactional attorney and you are really any kind of attorney, but in particular transactional, if you don’t figure out a way to get your clients to tell you about their business without charging them, then you never have the opportunity to help them really see the forest for the trees. So you get a chance to figure out whether it’s a short console, I call it the design phase. Basically, you got to have a deliverable the way a software company does, where you’re getting in to understand the client and learn all about their business. So that when you can not only see what they need to handle right now, but you can spot the thing that might come down the road in the future. I love it.
Tyson Mutrux
So it’s funny. My tip of the week actually has to do with some of the you’d mentioned earlier. And I think it’s funny because you had no idea was going to talk about it, you were talking about kind of sharpening the saw. And really kind of learning all the time and is really early in the episode, but it’s just about how I should learn and get better and all that. So my tip of the week is, it’s summertime or in the middle of June, things start to slow down for a lot of people in their practices over the summer. Somebody speeds up but some of it slows down because vacation time. Take a little bit of time take a couple of days and sharpen the saw this is a really good opportunity to have you actually ever bought a stack of recorded seminars from Mike Campbell. But I’m gonna work on over the next couple weeks. But just take a couple I mean even if it’s just reading a book on trial tactics or whatever you do, just take a couple couple of days just to sharpen the saw and preferably more over the summer but take some time sharpen the saw get better at your craft so you’re always improving it’s not just about improving on your business. Improve your legal skills to it’s really really important. IP so much for thank you so much for coming on. This has been a lot of fun really, really appreciated lots of good stuff.
Pete Salsich
My pleasure, Tyson. Jim, thanks. So I have to both you guys appreciate what you guys have put together and I am really happy to be part of the team.
