Key Considerations for Hiring a Digital Marketing Agency with RizeUp Media


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Are you a law firm owner who needs to market their firm better? In this insightful episode of the Maximum Lawyer Podcast, Jim and Tyson engage with Vaidas and Steve from RizeUp Media to explore the intricacies of selecting a digital marketing agency. 

When searching for a marketing agency, it is important to find one that aligns with your goals as a firm. Vaidas and Steve share a few red flags to look out for and some things to consider. One red flag is working with a company that does not truly understand the vision of a law firm and what the firm needs from a marketing standpoint. Marketing a firm involves a lot of things, including knowing who your audience is and where they are located. A good marketing agency is going to do the research and work with you to determine these factors.

When it comes to the relationship between a firm and a vendor, like a marketing agency, communication is key to a successful partnership and results that will make the firm money. For a firm it is important to let your partner know what is and isn't working. To maintain consistent communication, set up recurring meetings for 15-30 minutes to go over how things are going for the firm as well as strategizing if a change is needed.

Take a listen to learn more!

RizeUp Media is offering Maximum Lawyer listeners a free audit! Claim yours here! Or email [email protected] or [email protected].

Jim's Hack: Using the phrase “happy and grateful” which for him means something needs to get taken care of.

Vaidas’s Tip: is to use the app Loom, which is a recording tool and can be utilized to record short videos or snippets to send to people.

Steve’s Hack: is using legal directories as an analytics tool and seeing how many calls you get from individuals who have found your firm through a directory.

Tyson's Tip: Use a Notebook LM which is a virtual AI assistant. You can upload documents and ask the tool anything which will then provide answers using those documents.

Episode Highlights:

  • 2:49 Discussion on red flags when hiring a digital marketing agency
  • 7:51 Seeking exclusivity in their marketing partnerships.
  • 17:33 The importance of communication for successful partnerships 
  • 19:42 Importance of regular follow-ups and communication with clients

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Transcripts: Key Considerations for Hiring a Digital Marketing Agency with RizeUp Media

Speaker 1 (00:00:01) - Run your law firm the right way. The right way. This is the Maximum Lawyer podcast. Podcast. Your hosts, Jim Hacking and Tyson new tricks. Let's partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.

Jim Hacking (00:00:23) - Welcome back to the Maximum Moyer Podcast. I'm Jim Hacking.

Tyson Mutrux (00:00:26) - And I'm Tyson Matrix. What's up Jimmy.

Jim Hacking (00:00:29) - Tyson good to be recording with you again. It's been a minute.

Tyson Mutrux (00:00:32) - Yeah I agree I was I always enjoy these sessions when we can get back to recording with each other again. It's always, always fun. And luckily today we've got a couple people that have been on before with us that are amazing with Rise Up media. What's up Vitus, what's up?

Speaker 4 (00:00:49) - What's going on Tyson?

Steve (00:00:50) - What's going on?

Jim Hacking (00:00:50) - Guys, guys, we're really happy to have you back on the show. For those of our listeners who don't know a little bit of your story, why don't you just tell us what Rise Up media is, what you offer and sort of how you came into contact with us at Maximum Lawyer, basically who we are.

Jim Hacking (00:01:06) - We are a digital marketing company.

*Vaidas * (00:01:08) - We specialize in helping law firms with online visibility. We do everything from website design, SEO, advertising, with Google, PPC, social media., we came to be introduced to you by one of our clients, and now I think we're at a year and a half, I think, of partnering with you guys. We've been to a couple of your,, I think three now of your masterminds and,, have just had an amazing experience working with the people that are part of your organization and with you guys obviously have a lot of people that we work with now in Maximum Lawyers. Well, here we are so.

Tyson Mutrux (00:01:44) - Funny because like Jim and I, we we run into a lot of vendors, like we, we just talked to a lot of vendors. We have a lot of people on the show. And I mean, I truly mean this, like, you all have been great. Our members just love working with you. And so I've I've literally never heard a complaint about you all, which is extremely rare, especially for an SEO company.

Tyson Mutrux (00:02:03) - So I think that that's just just amazing. It's a testament to to you all. So thanks for everything you all do. But enough two year olds horn. We we want to talk about the things you should look for when it comes to a digital marketing agency, because that's something we we get questions about all the time. You know, people want to hire like I mean, it could be a PR firm too, you know. But it could be, you know, we want to hire an SEO company. We want to hire someone for for Google Ads, you name it, social media, whatever. But I mean, there's there's I know there's some names that Jim and I would say definitely avoid, but we kind of want to give people just a way of looking at things that things that they can look for to, to make sure that they, they hire the right company. So I guess we'll start with, I, you know, I can take this a term. We'll start with Vitus and then Steve, you can go after Vitus.

Tyson Mutrux (00:02:49) - But I would say what are well, let's start with some red flags. What are some red flags that you might see when it comes to hiring a vendor.

*Vaidas * (00:02:56) - That okay, that's that's a great place to start because Steve and I just got off a phone call with with somebody that contacted us from your last mastermind won't mention names, but the red flag that we ran into specifically with this firm is that they are having an enormous amount of content added to their website with no direction, no no consultation, no strategy at all with the firm, and in this case, content is being written for geography that has no relevance to where those types of cases even come from. So I bring that up as a red flag that you, whoever you partner with from a marketing standpoint, it needs to be a partnership. You need to have someone that's going to sit down and talk about what do you want, where do you want it from, and how do we get you there? Who's your competition? What's a priority for you? Because, you know, there's a lot that goes into getting visibility, whether it's through ads, through Google, LSA or PPC, or in our case, our you know, what we really do well is the search engine optimization.

*Vaidas * (00:04:02) - And in our case, we almost on a, on a on a daily basis. And we have conversations. We run into people that have content on their website, and they don't understand why they're not getting the results they want. And what we find more often than not is there's no strategic research done on content to be written to show up. So as an example of that, if you're in a very competitive marketplace, let's say New York City, and you're looking to show up for, you know, gun crimes or some sort of, you know, really competitive area, you're going to you're going to need 3 or 4000 words of content on a page for Google to give you that visibility. And there's many, many other options out there where, you know, you might get 500 words, a thousand words and, you know, hope for the best, but there's no chance you're going to get visibility in that. So, you know, our approach is basically to analyze the competitive marketplace of where someone wants to show up.

*Vaidas * (00:04:58) - And then with our team, we utilize our tools to come up with what we need to do to get them to get that first page results. So a red flag is somebody that's writing or doing anything as far as your marketing strategy, without input from you and without constant feedback from you and, and and a collaborative effort, if you will. Yeah.

Jim Hacking (00:05:19) - So I'll add in on that.

Speaker 4 (00:05:21) - So track ability. Accountability is extremely important. If you're spending thousands of dollars a month, it's out of your pocket from your law firm. You should really know where your money's going. It should be able to track it. I think the biggest red flag is you get some of these marketing agencies that will we call them the Bronco. The old set it and forget it., you know, you you they build a website that right. Initial amount of content, maybe ten pages or whatever. And then they say they're doing SEO every single month. Well, 25 years in the business, if you're not writing content every month and adding backlinks to the back of your website, you're not doing SEO.

Speaker 4 (00:05:58) - If you're not doing that on a monthly basis, you're not doing it's not really, truly SEO. A lot of marketing companies will send will will have one phone number. This is probably prevalent in most of the big box marketing companies. Your scorpion's your just is your final. And they'll sign that tracking number to every single bit, every single one of the their marketing platforms, whether it's PPC, if it's there, if it's their website, if they're GMB, that that's the big red flag. If they're not tracking your GMB, where somebody is looking for your name and calling you from your GMB, and they're using the same marketing numbers that you're using for your website, it it's it really falsifies what your true analytics are. That accountability I mean it's it's if you're not talking to your marketing company at least once a quarter, and if you're spending a great deal of money, you should talk to them once a month to find out, hey, what's working well, what's not working? Well, maybe we should shift some dollars to go from here to there, because this seems to be generating a 10 to 1 where this is generating a 2 to 1, then you're it, it it almost is astonishing to us that we have conversation with the guys that are spending five, six, seven, eight, nine, $10,000 a month, and they don't talk with their marketing company.

Speaker 4 (00:07:10) - But once a year when it's time to renew. So I think I think partnership and accountability are probably the two biggest red flags.

Jim Hacking (00:07:17) - I'm old enough to remember when the Yellow Pages person would come to the office and make a pitch to get a full. They call it full truck or something. And full truck. Dad.

*Vaidas * (00:07:26) - Yeah, Steve. Steve works for him so he can fill in any blanks.

Jim Hacking (00:07:30) - What I always wondered was, well, if they're going to all the attorneys in my town about getting this double truck ad, you know, their their incentive for the Yellow Pages is to sell as many ads as they can. But when it comes to SEO, how does that factor in when you're talking about your marketing company, should you be looking for exclusivity? Should what should you be thinking about as a law firm owner on that, on that front?

Speaker 4 (00:07:51) - Well, I'll take that one by this. So it's, it's it's an interesting conversation because there's a couple big box store that started that way and say, okay, we're going to work with three criminal lawyers and three personal injury lawyers in this city.

Speaker 4 (00:08:03) - What they found was, well, now we're going to go to zip code. We're only work with three in the zip code. And then they're saying, okay, well you want criminal law, but they specialize in DUI. You know, exclusivity is it comes up all the time. But our point is there are literally thousands and hundreds of thousands of variations of searches. And if you're getting found on the internet through these variations of searches, which generates at least our goal is to get you a 5 to 1 return on your investment. What does it matter who else we work with? If you come to me and say, okay, I want to spend $10,000 a month, but I want to make 50,000 in return, and you're doing that, what difference does it make if we're working with one of your competitors? And that's the way we approach it, that we tend, you know, we're we're a relatively small company compared to some of the big box stores. And I will tell you that vice and I have had five, four meetings today and it's 11:00 am.

Speaker 4 (00:09:01) - So we're not we're not going after we're not using our clients to go after other clients in certain cities and certain markets invite us. Yeah. And to add to.

*Vaidas * (00:09:11) - That, I think that would be a relevant conversation. And it does come up. Right. Like, well, if I work with you, you know, what's to stop. You know, you working with the other three guys down the street. And to Steve's point, like one, we don't have time to do that. And second of all, it really doesn't matter if there was only like if you run a Google search and there's ten results. And that was the only ten results that we had to work with, then you could say, well, there's only so much real estate. But like Steve said earlier, there's there's so many different ways people search for things. There's so many different things that firms want. Firm firms will tell you, well, we all want the same thing, but that's not true because maybe you want it from this geography, or maybe you only want this version of the these and you don't take these types of things.

*Vaidas * (00:09:54) - Or maybe you're only willing to spend, you know, this amount, whereas this firm is willing to spend four times that. So it's not an apples to apples comparison. There is plenty of business out there for firms that do this, and we have yet to run into somebody going, oh my God, my business got cut in half because you started working with somebody else. The key is, is we want to get you first page results. It doesn't really matter who else is on that first page, because you're going to be compared to somebody anyway. You're our job is to make you one of those top choices. And then at that point, you know, it's up to you to close them.

Speaker 4 (00:10:29) - So and I'll piggyback on that. Vitus, you know, the guy we just talked to you today, he he's in he's in a state where his if he wanted exclusivity, when he says, okay, I do criminal law in all these cities, but when we drill down, we start asking them like, what do you want, traffic tickets? No, I don't want traffic tickets.

Speaker 4 (00:10:48) - Do you want do you want misdemeanors? No, I don't want misdemeanor. So when you say do you give exclusivity for a criminal lawyer, if you actually have a marketing company that asks the right questions, like, Will you take this case in this geo, or in this case, will you take this case in this Geo, not this case in that Geo. When you get down to the when you get down to actually doing a good, having a good conversation with a law firm, it you all really don't want the same thing as what you perceive as your competitor.

Tyson Mutrux (00:11:16) - I think that's fair. It's a good it's.

Speaker 4 (00:11:18) - Not a lawyer that only does car wreck. Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux (00:11:19) - And I honestly I've not really thought about it from that perspective. So I think that that's I think that's a good perspective. I think it's right. Let me so Steve you sort of mentioned hinted at this before is is you know data and information is there are there some baseline numbers that every person should expect to at least receive some sort of proof that they've got, that they've done a good job in the past? Is there something that we can ask for when we're talking to a digital marketing company that everyone should provide this, you know, baseline of data?

Speaker 4 (00:11:52) - Oh, my God, that's such a good question.

Speaker 4 (00:11:54) - Yes. Today, in today's today's landscape for digital marketing, you can track everything. I mean, you can be paralyzed by by analytics with the amount of analytics we can pull. And there's a couple there's a before I go into this, I'll say there's a couple of sites out there that are software that will run your analytics for for you. You can ask your agency to send them the SEMrush. It's, and you can run individual websites for any website on the internet. And it will it will give you a pretty accurate detail of how many visits you get, where they come from, what people are searching for to get to your site. And the other one is Ahrefs. Those are the two main ones that most agencies like ours, or any kind of marketing agency uses to to look at data that we have, we track everything we'll run. The other one is called rel. They should request to have callrail or some type of service like call rail that can track numbers. We will track everything from where somebody came from, what they typed in to get to our website.

Speaker 4 (00:13:03) - Did they use Yahoo? Did they use Bing? Did they come from an RLS local service that did they come from a paid and did they come from their GMB, which is now a GST app? They keep changing the name. We track data on all of our websites. I think we're close to 500 websites, but every time Google has a change in their in their analytics or the change in their their rhythms, we will actually visibly go into each one of our, our clients to see if they are affected by that change. So we're getting ready to have a change this month. We just don't know what day Google's already put it out. But yeah, you should be able to tell how many visitors you had, what they typed in to get to your website, how many people called you from those visitors? Where did they call you from? What page did they call you from? I literally can go into I literally can go into detail that just is is it goes into the weeds a lot with clients that we don't go into.

Speaker 4 (00:14:00) - But if you don't have a marketing firm that's giving you this information, or if they're just sending you, all right, you got you got 800 visitors and you got 140 phone calls this month, but they're not showing you the names of the people who called you or how people got there. It the the the analytics are there. They're just not providing them. If you want to jump in on that.

*Vaidas * (00:14:20) - Yeah. And that that's a good segue to kind of what my point was going to be when we ask firms that we talked to you, like, do you get any kind of analytics? The typical answer is, well, I get something sent to me once a month. Do you look at it? Yeah. I don't really know what I'm looking at. No one goes over it with me. A lot of times they'll ask us to take a look at it and it's it, it's almost such lack of information that it's meant to confuse versus actually provide real value. And, and one of the things that I'm seeing a lot now are firms that are using the term impressions.

*Vaidas * (00:14:54) - Impressions are a absolute BS analytic that is meant to make it look like look at all the impressions you're getting here. An impression is the equivalent of the road in front of your office, and the cars that drive by are our impressions to your office. They have no no clue, no care, no interest in your business. But they're driving by your office. That's an impression. And impressions are huge because, hey, you had 300,000 impressions this month. It's an absolutely, absolutely irrelevant stat. And I have now seen that these other companies lead with that. Like, that's such an enormous, amazing stat that they're providing for you where it's got nothing to do with it. Exactly, Jim. So what I, what I see like what Steve went into the details and your question, Tyson, is sort of should you have a baseline of of what you are starting point or something? One anybody you work with should be able to provide references, not just show you stuff. But hey, can I talk to some of your clients? Can I talk to someone that that does the same practice area that I do doesn't have to be in your town.

*Vaidas * (00:16:03) - I guess that, you know, you don't want to necessarily talk to someone that's doing exactly what you do, where you're at. But let me talk to a solo attorney that practices criminal law in a non large metropolitan area that you guys work with. If they're not willing to let you talk to their clients or connect you that way, that's a that's a red flag. And more importantly, show the statistics and analytics of what we do. Steve said earlier. We we go into everything with our clients from the pages that we're going to write for you, the pages we did write for you, how those pages have performed. And if you're not having these conversations on a regular basis, especially if you're spending, you know, thousands and tens of thousands of dollars, then then you're you're you're not getting what you should be getting from, from somebody who's a partner in your success.

Jim Hacking (00:16:48) - All right. So we've covered sort of all the ways the warning signs, the, the sort of sleazy things that some marketing companies do.

Jim Hacking (00:16:54) - I want to change gears a little bit and talk to you about attorneys who own law firms. And I would imagine that just like we see different clients with all different kinds of philosophies and worldviews and approaches to things when it comes to law firm owners who are interested in SEO, who what are the characteristics of law firm owners that have been the most successful with you? What are the. And obviously, we could say just the ones that spend the most money. Those are great clients to have. But what's a good client for you guys? What what's a good partner? Vitus talked about this being a partnership. What what can attorneys do on their end to help the partnership succeed as much as possible?

Speaker 4 (00:17:33) - Communicate. You need to have an open dialogue with your marketing company, especially if you get above five grand a month that you're spending on your marketing. Yeah, and that's that's about baseline of what people should be spending. But if you're if you're spending $60,000 on marketing, you should communicate with your with your marketing partner and be honest, say, hey, look, I'm getting all these calls and I'm not really converting anybody.

Speaker 4 (00:17:56) - And let us dig into the calls and listen to the calls and find out what's going on. And maybe there's something we can tweak to generate better calls. Right? And especially through local service ads and paid ads, you get what you ask for with those,, or refocusing the campaign for content to go after practice areas in a different geography. But really it's a communication with your with your marketing partner. And that's why I've always said, I meet with vice and I have a lot of clients. We work with a lot of a lot of Max law clients we work with. And we we meet with them once a quarter of minimum, and most of them will meet with once a month just to check in. We'll have a reoccurring meeting just for 15 minutes or 20 minutes. If it's a content strategy, call me a little bit longer, but we want to. We want to work with you and find out what's working so we can tweak things that aren't working to make it better, or refocus dollars to go into the things that are working.

Speaker 4 (00:18:50) - Vitus.

*Vaidas * (00:18:51) - Yeah, and on that note, I think, I think most people, unless they're a brand new firm, have, you know, people ask us all the time, like, who's your biggest competitor? It's not a company. It's an experience. And most attorneys today have had a bad experience times. However many, they've been told the same thing. They've been promised this and they've been disappointed. So how are you guys different? I've heard of that before. Yeah. The last guy said the same thing. You know, one, that's one reason for us why we don't do contracts. Everything's month to month with us and that holds our feet to the fire for performance. But to Steve's point, I can't tell you how many of the people we work with are just, like, thankful that if they need something, if they text me, I get sometimes a text on a weekend where someone needs something and I respond, or I pick up the phone and they're like, wow, like, I thought you wouldn't get back to me till next week.

*Vaidas * (00:19:42) - And I mean, that's that's just one small thing. I don't want to make it sound like my phone's blown up over the weekend, but responsiveness and attention and feeling like like they're a priority. And to that point, Steve and I try to schedule. We're not perfect, but we try to schedule on a regular basis follow ups with with our clients to go through where we are, where we've been and where do we need to go from here. And we and we have to do that because we're consistently writing new content every single month. So we need to know where the company's wants to focus, whether it's geographically or practice area., Jim's,, both of you guys. Right. So, so to that point, we get feedback all the time. Like, I have a couple firms that I work with it. It's a ten minute phone call, ten minute zoom call, just like this. Once a month. It's on the calendar. Hey. What's up? Tell me what's going on.

*Vaidas * (00:20:33) - Here's what I'm seeing. Here's what I see on your end. Anything different? Nope. Great. Talk to you next month that they appreciate that there's a partnership there versus hey, I haven't talked to anybody in a month, but now they're calling me because it's time to up the contract. So like Steve started the thing, it's it's communication and feeling like you actually care about their success versus just getting a new contract.

Tyson Mutrux (00:20:55) - All right. So I'm going to turn the tables a little bit because for attorneys sometimes it's there's a lot of times where we have red flags when it comes to clients. And I sometimes I'll tell the clients, if you don't listen to my advice, it's not it's not because and if we get a bad results, not because I'm a bad attorneys, because you're not listening to my advice and taking my advice. So I'm I'm sure that some people, when they go and hire a digital marketing company, they're just bad customers. And so that's part of the reason why they don't get a very good have a very good experience.

Tyson Mutrux (00:21:26) - So what are some ways that you could be a good customer? In some ways you could be a bad customer. So I'll let you take it from either angle.

Speaker 4 (00:21:35) - You take good or bad.

*Vaidas * (00:21:36) - Steve, which one you want?

Speaker 4 (00:21:37) - I'll take bad I think the majority. I tell every client, if you're going to do something, I think the two of you know more than anybody. We're not, we're not we're not a pushy agency. We're not one to send you 400 emails or call your call your office to try to get on your calendar 65 times. But I will tell you that there are some good agencies out there, but I don't take any law firm out there that's listening. Whatever type of marketing you're going to do, do it right. Don't don't do, don't put don't put a little bit here, a little bit there a little bit just to see how it works. You need to go all in if you're going to go all in. And to that point when we have conversations with attorneys, we do a lot of research.

Speaker 4 (00:22:15) - We know who we're meeting with, they know what practice area they are, and we know what what county and what city they're in, what state they're in. We'll do research on who their competitors are, who's showing up just based on what we're reading on their website or what they want. And when we when we recommend the program or we recommend a budget if they're not willing to work with us, we're not going to work with them. If we say, listen, I need you to spend a minimum of $3,000 because that's where we feel comfortable that you're going to make the return on investment. That that is what your expectation is to get 5 to 1. Well, you're going to need to spend this to get 5 to 1 if anything less. We're not going to work with you because the worst thing I can do is listen. I've been working with a law firm for 25 years. My dad's an attorney, and my brothers are attorneys. Listen, if we make you guys happy, you tell nobody.

Speaker 4 (00:23:01) - If we piss you off, you tell everybody. So we might have to have come to a point in our career where we know what's going to generate the 5 to 1 or the ten, whatever their expectations are. And if they say, I don't want to spend that, I'll spend half. We just won't work with them because we don't. You know, everything we do is built on our reputation and our, you know, how we treat our clients. And I would much rather not take the money than have somebody to be bad about raising media, because that's how much we care about our reputation. Vitus.

*Vaidas * (00:23:35) - So that's the bad, right? The good clients are the ones that are responsive and participatory. And what I mean by that is, you know, our whole point of working with someone is not to take enormous amounts of their time. And we understand they've got to go to court. They're they're getting paid to be lawyers. But it's hard for us to do our job if we don't have feedback and and strategy from them, because we can assume so much, but we need their input on again, if we start with somebody and say, look, let's we need you to talk to our SEO team about what you want, where you want it from, and then we're going to get to work and come back with you with suggestions.

*Vaidas * (00:24:17) - Right. So same thing from a, you know, a design standpoint or whatever standpoint. Like we just started with, with somebody recently that also a max law person that we just started running LSA ads for them and they were like, hey, is this going to work? We don't know. And, and you know, how quickly can we get results? Well, first day that we turn the LSA ads, I called them, I said, you got five calls today. And he was like, wow, like I thought, I thought you were going to wait a week to get back to me. So that's our element of being participatory. But he's incredibly, I guess, happy. The fact that we're paying attention to it on his behalf, because he's he's got concerns of leaving the relationship that he had because he, he had a very long standing partnership that wasn't working, but nonetheless, he severed that to go with us. And now he's seeing that partnership in our communication. So a good client is someone that makes even just a little bit of time to talk about things and share with us.

*Vaidas * (00:25:13) - By the way, what are you seeing on your end? We can look at data all day long, but we don't know what's going on. As far as how many people are hiring you, what kind of revenue are you generating? So the only way we can collaborate those things is if we get that, that feedback directly from from the lawyer.

Jim Hacking (00:25:28) - For my last question, it's something that we haven't really talked about, but it interests me. You guys have obviously had a lot of success and experienced growth. How have you, as business owners, handled that growth and made sure that your clients still get the attention that they deserve and that you want them to get? I think that would be a good lesson to law firm owners from a customer satisfaction standpoint.

*Vaidas * (00:25:50) - Yeah, I I'll I'll start with that one, Steve. And then you can parlay that to that point. We we are we're growing like crazy, but we're growing in a way where we're being careful not to get ahead of ourselves. So we're hiring.

*Vaidas * (00:26:03) - We're we're adding people on the back end. Steve and I personally are delegating some things that that free us time, free of our time to actually communicate directly with the, the customers, the law firms that we work with. There's some back end stuff that we can have some Vas sort of help us with, but we're we're at the point now where we're trying to come up with the best model to make sure that something doesn't fall through the cracks. Then we continue to give the attention that's required. But as a company, I think we've doubled in size over the last year as far as the growth of everything from designers to SEO to account managers, project managers, because we want to make sure that we can continue to provide the the quality and the results that that we've got have gotten us this far.

Speaker 4 (00:26:51) - And I'll I'll jump on that as well. So the one thing that we've all had, we talked to our owners every day, you know, we're all good friends and we we will not hire quantity over quality.

Speaker 4 (00:27:03) - We're still hiring quality people. We're sourcing quality people. Luckily, when you're in this industry, when you're in the legal marketing industry, you know, a lot of people that are not we all know each other. All the other agencies, we all know each other. So there's a pool of people and there's a background where we know who they are, but we're not going to we're definitely not just hiring to hire. We're hiring quality over quantity. The growth we we've actually. We doubled every single year. I think we were 95,000. I think we were on number 800, 810. I can't remember the number, but we are one of the fastest growing private companies in America. But it does. It comes with I mean, bison are busy. We have we have seven appointments today. We had six yesterday. We are we are getting help on the back end of stuff. But it doesn't stop us from talking to our clients. But it is a good question. But to answer your question, we are not.

Speaker 4 (00:27:54) - We are not picking quantity over quality. We're our biggest fear that we're not going to give the quality the attention that our clients need. And so far, it hasn't affected the attention that our clients get or the outcome.

*Vaidas * (00:28:08) - And if I can, if I can add to that based on something Steve said just a few minutes ago, is that we'll turn away your business if we don't feel that you're willing to, in a sense, listen to our advice so you can be successful. Because, again, we do everything month to month. So we we put a lot into what we what we strategize with you to get results, and we know what's going to work and what isn't. And if you're not willing to, you know, take our sort of expertise and our suggestions there, then we'll turn your business away, because we don't want to work with you for five months. And then you'd be like, oh, rise up. They didn't know what they were doing. They didn't work. So we're selective with firms that we work with, and we'll turn down clients that say, hey, I'll start with you, but I can only do this much.

*Vaidas * (00:28:53) - Well, you know, that's really not going to get us to where we where we need to be. And, you know, we'd love to work with you if things change. And you and you, you know, get in a position where you can, you know, follow our advice. So again, selective sort of choosing who you work with.

Speaker 4 (00:29:08) - And to that point one more point, Tyson, I know you want to say something, but to that point, if we if we if we're talking to a client and they want immediate phone calls and SEO is not a good strategy for them because it's SEO is a long term play, you know, it's six, seven months before you start indexing. We will say, listen, let's not work on SEO. Let's let us run some LSA ads to get your phones. Your phone's ringing right now. Bring in some business so that when you start your SEO, you can fund it the first six months through the office ads. So it is. It is listening, growing, growing the right way and growing with people that are are good in the dugout, so to speak, all compatible in the dugout, I think.

Speaker 4 (00:29:49) - I think that's.

Tyson Mutrux (00:29:50) - Important. Yeah. I think what you just said, Steve, is, is really important. You know, working with a company that understands law firms as a business and the need to actually get get some some money through the door whenever you're spending, you know, thousands of dollars with these, with these agencies. So I think that that's I think it's brilliant. So I'm glad you said that. Before we wrap things up, how do people get in touch with you all? Vytas I'll let you or Steve, either one. Whoever wants to give the pitch on how to get in touch with you if they if someone wants to work with you.

*Vaidas * (00:30:16) - Yeah, you can reach us by email. You can reach us by both of us. Our cell phones, our emails, our first name at Rise Up Mediacom. So mine is Vitus Vidas at Rise Up Mediacom Rise up, spelled with a Z. Steve's is Steve at Rise up media com my cell phone number. You can text me, call me.

*Vaidas * (00:30:34) - (704) 953-7051 Steve, your cell phone is (412) 713-2764.

Speaker 4 (00:30:44) - But there's also a link on maximum, I believe.

Tyson Mutrux (00:30:47) - Yeah. So I was gonna be impressed if you knew Steve's cell phone off the top of your head by us. But I definitely do not know. Jim's off the top of my head.

*Vaidas * (00:30:54) - I don't know my mom's cell phone number. I just hit dial, so.

Tyson Mutrux (00:30:59) - All right, so we are going to wrap things up before I do want to remind everyone join us in the big Facebook group. Just search Maximum Lawyer and Facebook and you'll find us there. Hopefully Facebook is not down on the day that you do search it. And if you want a to join us at one of our quarterly masterminds, we are going to be in Minneapolis and we're going to be in North Carolina. So Charlotte and Vegas, we were in Scottsdale earlier this year. We were at Miami last year. So we had a few few cool places that we've been to and that we're going to. So if you want to join us in the Max Law

Tyson Mutrux (00:31:31) - Jimmy, what is your hack of the week?

Jim Hacking (00:31:34) - So I have a team member. She's relentless. Like she does not give up. She just keeps insisting she's like the Terminator. She she doesn't give up. And that includes when she wants me to do something. So like, there's this there's this issue right now. It's incredible to me. I'm not admitted to the new Jersey bar, but I do file a case from time to time in new Jersey and federal court. But I have to pay a fee. Apparently, I have to pay a fee to the new Jersey state court system for the privilege of filing proactivity. It's just a total racket. It's a money grab. But she has just not given up about this. And she's been driving me crazy with it. And I came up with a phrase with my assistant today because I wanted to say, please just leave me alone. I don't care about this. Just make it so right. So my new phrase is happy and grateful. So when Jim says he's happy and grateful, please take care of this.

Jim Hacking (00:32:23) - Jim is happy and grateful that you're doing it. So that's that's our new code word. For this is sort of not something I need to be aware of. Just take care of it.

Tyson Mutrux (00:32:32) - Jim, I am happy and grateful that you're on this podcast today. I always love recording with you, Vitus. And then we'll go. We'll go to Vitus and then Steve. I'll go to my left or right. So Vitus and Steve, you all, you all have done this a couple times now. We always ask our guests to give a tip or a hack of the week. Vitus, you're up first. Steve, you are next.

*Vaidas * (00:32:52) - Yeah. My tip of the week. There's there's a tool out there called loom. I discovered it actually first by I was actually getting physical therapy done with a guy and he was using it. And he. It's a recording tool. It's a free tool you can actually download and you can basically record. We could record this entire thing that we're doing here and send it in a snippet.

*Vaidas * (00:33:13) - And so the value that I see in it now from our, our business sense is I'll talk to somebody and they'll say, hey, this is great, but now I need to go regurgitate it and tell the partners and whatever. And of course, things would get lost in translation. So what I've done is said, hey, how about if I do a quick little two minute overview video of everything we just did? And you can just have your partners watch my video. And that's been incredibly well received. So you can utilize it for any element like that. But it's a real easy way to send a message to somebody, even as a follow up, as a, hey, I just wanted to talk to you real quick. Here's a couple of things. Steve and I have even used it to give people a quick analysis of their reports, because it records anything that I do on my computer gives them a little link. They can watch it as they need be, and it's a great way to sort of touch base with people.

Tyson Mutrux (00:34:00) - Love it. Very good. Steve, what you got the.

Speaker 4 (00:34:03) - Legal directories, if you're running thousands of dollars in legal directories across the country or statewide or citywide, have your marketing company give you a tracking phone number on that legal directory because they can already track how many people click into your website if they're tracking analytics, but the phone not put a tracking phone number that goes to your office that you can track. Not the marketing, not the legal directories, and get a true sense of how many phone calls you actually get from the legal directories.

Tyson Mutrux (00:34:32) - Love it. Good stuff. It's great advice for mine. It's a tip that that Kelsey Bradshaw, Jimmy and his buddy gave me. I was actually in the middle of responding to a motion for summary judgment, and he just sent me a text. Hey, hey, have you,, seen notebook LM? And I was I didn't know what the hell it was. I thought he actually spelled it wrong, but it was. It's notebook LM Google.

Tyson Mutrux (00:34:53) - And it is. They call, I think they call it a virtual AI assistant. So you can take you can upload documents or PDFs to it. You can upload text, it can sync with Google Docs. And unlike like ChatGPT and other, these other platforms where you ask for it to do something, it pulls from whatever database it comes from, the database is whatever database you give it, which is kind of cool. So if you have a bunch of case law and you could people like I could see injury lawyers doing this with, you know, demand letters or, or even per case. You could, you know, have it analyze medical records for you. It's pretty cool. So you upload whatever you need for it and then you can ask it questions. So I was playing around with it and I uploaded some case law to it. So I was just kind of asking it questions. And then what it'll do is would give me the answer and then give me the direct citation in the PDF so I could click on the citation.

Tyson Mutrux (00:35:44) - It would take me straight to that PDF where I could then read the case law. And it was really cool. So it's free. It's free for now. So I would check it out. Notebook LM which is notebook LM, Google, it's pretty cool. So check it out. Vitus. Steve, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for being such a great partner with Maxwell to Rise Up media. It's a great company, like I said. And I'm not just saying it. I've never heard a complaint about you all. I've only heard really good things. I've heard lots of compliments. All the guild members that have used you have reported back success. So. So keep up the great work and thanks for everything you do.

Speaker 1 (00:36:20) - Thanks for listening to the Maximum Lawyer podcast. To stay in contact with your host and to access more content. Go to Maximum Have a great week and catch you next time.

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