The Most Effective Strategies for On-Camera Presence and Public Speaking Skills with Kerry Barrett

Watch the YouTube version of this episode HERE

Are you a lawyer that would like to work on their public speaking skills? In this episode of the Maximum Lawyer Podcast, Jim and Tyson are joined by Kerry Barrett, an expert in on-camera media training for Fortune 500 companies. Kerry shares her insights on public speaking and offers tips for lawyers to improve their on-camera skills and connect with potential clients. 

Public speaking can be a very intimidating thing to overcome. For lawyers, public speaking is something that needs to be mastered as there are instances like tv work or in person court hearings and trials that provide the space to speak in front of people. Carrie provides some tips for lawyers to get over this hurdle. One way is to step outside of your comfort zone and find ways to make yourself and your name known to people. Apply to be on a podcast about the legal field or research media opportunities to network and let others know who you are. It is all about getting comfortable with being uncomfortable.    

Communicating to people as a lawyer can be a tricky task, especially if someone is not well versed in speaking with clients. One issue Kerry identifies for lawyers is that most speak to clients using legal terms. Clients do not know any legal jargon, so it is important to break down what is being said in simple terms. This also applies to lawyers who are speaking on camera. In this setting, lawyers are performing and not simply delivering information in a courtroom. What is being provided in terms of content needs to be laid out in a way that can be understood easily.

Listen in to learn more from Kerry on public speaking!

Jim's Hack: If you find yourself with a few minutes to spare, just pull out your phone and record a TikTok to see what happens. Get the content out there and then deal with graphics later on.

Kerry’s Tip: When you are on stage or you're in front of a camera, there are two things you always need to have. One is a plan and one is presence. The plan is that you understand your delivery and the presence is what comes into play when all that other stuff goes sideways.

Tyson's Tip: Ted Talk called the 100 Days of Rejection, where this guy puts himself through 100 days of possible moments of rejection from people. It is a great watch for those that struggle talking to people, being on stage or doing videos.

Episode Highlights:

• 4:19 Advice on teaching public speaking skills
• 7:09 Discussion on common mistakes lawyers make on television
• 17:14 How lawyers can build connections with potential clients
• 20:06 How to use simple language for effective communication

Connect with Kerry:

• Website
• LinkedIn
• YouTube
• Instagram
• Facebook
• TikTok
• Pinterest
• Blog

Resources:

• Join the Guild Membership
• Subscribe to the Maximum Lawyer YouTube Channel
• Follow us on Instagram
• Join the Facebook Group
• Follow the Facebook Page
• Follow us on LinkedIn

Transcripts: The Most Effective Strategies for On-Camera Presence and Public Speaking Skills with Kerry Barrett

Jim (00:00.91)
Welcome back to the Maximum Warrior Podcast. I'm Jim Hacking.

Tyson (00:04.429)
and I'm Tyson Mutrix, what's up Jimmy?

Jim (00:07.374)
Tyson, it's funny, I don't think of you as someone recording from the car. I often record from the car, so it's pretty funny to see you pulled over on the side of the road to record this podcast. That's real dedication.

Tyson (00:17.849)
Yeah, yeah, I don't know you remember back in the day though like we had We had multiple where we didn't do video. We just did audio. It's like seven years ago We'd be like driving down the highway doing a podcast Yeah, it's a different world now. It's all that we do video on all these so I have to be stopped but yeah, it's uh, it's a This is different, but I'll tell you the lighting is really good for so I'm it's not too bad pretty good Very good. All right, do we want to?

Jim (00:23.296)
you

Jim (00:29.006)
Yeah.

Jim (00:42.83)
Yeah.

Do you want to introduce your guest?

Tyson (00:46.362)
Yeah, absolutely. I'm sure Kerry doesn't want to hear us talking about recording seven years ago. But it must go on, absolutely. So Kerry Barrett is the preeminent on -camera media video trainer and creator for Fortune 500 companies. Perfect for me today, sitting in the back of a truck. Founders, executives, and entrepreneurs, she teaches virtual and video presence and on -camera readiness for a broad spectrum of situations ranging from…

Kerry Barrett (00:49.516)
No, I do. The show must go on.

Tyson (01:14.555)
Formal talks, video content and social media and media interviews to everyday sales pitches over Zoom. As an Emmy award -winning network news anchor who overcame a debilitating fear of public speaking, Carrie offers a unique perspective as someone who has 25 years of experience in front of the camera. And we'll get into the rest of it in a little bit, because it's very cool. And maybe I'll get some advice on how I should have set this up a little bit better. But Carrie, welcome to the show.

Kerry Barrett (01:39.948)
Thank you so much for having me. That was a very nice intro. It's almost like I wrote it myself.

Tyson (01:46.523)
Almost like you wrote it yourself, yes.

Jim (01:46.638)
Indeed.

Kerry Barrett (01:48.55)
Thank you. It's great to be here.

Jim (01:50.926)
Kerry, tell us about your debilitating fear of public speaking and how you overcame it.

Kerry Barrett (01:55.884)
Oh my gosh, yeah, I'm not joking. It was like back of the room, puddle of my own vomit. There's a good chance that I might have peed myself and I was definitely passed out. If not, I was hyperventilating into a brown paper bag. And that goes way back. That's back to middle school that I started to struggle with that. And the interesting thing is, and I'll try and make this the bridged version of the story because it can get rather lengthy, but I…

Tyson (02:12.397)
you

Jim (02:18.016)
you

Kerry Barrett (02:24.844)
I started out as a pre -veterinary medicine major in college and organic chem put a fairly quick stop to that. And my enjoyment of partying also put a fairly quick stop to that. And so I took a year and a half off and I had to figure out what it was that I was going to do to make a living, right? And my friends are graduating and I'm still sort of stuck behind and I still hadn't found myself.

So my school, my college, had started a new communications program and it was very broad. It was everything from international business and language to speech pathology. There was some journalism in there, a little bit of marketing PR. And so it was a huge spectrum. And surely I thought there was something in there that I could do to make a living. And so I re -enrolled in the communications program and then I was trying to make up for lost time. The story's getting lengthy. I'm about to wrap up, I promise.

And so I got an internship at a local news station and lo and behold, I loved it. So now I had to figure out how it was that I was going to overcome this fear and not just overcome it, but actually get good enough at it that somebody would pay me to do it and people would actually watch. And that was not.

Tyson (03:26.941)
you

Kerry Barrett (03:48.342)
There was not a moment where that change happened, but it was, I like to call it sort of exposure therapy. I had to do it every day. If I didn't want to do it, you know, I carry him out of a job. And so it was that exposure over time, little bites that helped me overcome that.

Jim (04:03.534)
you

Tyson (04:05.983)
This is a, I'm very excited about this topic. I have several questions that I want to ask you about. Um, so I am, this may be a little odd question, but I've been trying to like teach my kids the importance of public speaking and trying to find ways of teaching them to just have a better presence and just be able to speak to people more clearly and look at them in the eyes. Cause it's these days, everyone's kind of look at their phones. So.

Any advice that you would give my kids, because I think it would probably apply to adults as well, any advice that I could give to my kids on public speaking and doing a better job.

Kerry Barrett (04:45.996)
I mean, anything that I say will be broadly applicable, whether you're a lawyer or executive or whether how old are your kids?

Jim (04:51.278)
you

Tyson (04:52.704)
13, 9, and almost 8.

Kerry Barrett (04:55.936)
Oh my gosh, my kids are exactly the same age. So it also applies to an eight year old. And the interesting thing is, is that kids today, obviously, as you mentioned, have grown up in front of the lens. They're almost too casual about it. Whereas, you know, my age and older tend to be a little too rigid about it. One of the easiest ways to sort of…

Tyson (04:59.009)
well.

Kerry Barrett (05:23.752)
direct your child is to have to practice. Honestly, it's to open their phone and it's to practice. If you have to record on the backside rather than looking at your face over here so they can practice eye contact. My oldest is 13. She's very, very shy. And I say every day, I want you to raise your hand once in school, right? Whether it's to answer a question or ask a question. And the goal there,

Jim (05:43.584)
you

Kerry Barrett (05:51.308)
while it's not applicable to someone who is an adult, is to push yourself outside of your comfort zone. So for an adult, that may be to hop on the phone and create a video or to apply to be on a podcast or to show up on a live stream or to look for media opportunities. And…

It's every single day, but you're right. It's eye contact, it's energy, and it's understanding how to message as well. One more thing, this is a long answer. But if you can get your child, if they do really struggle, getting them into an acting class, or getting them into some sort of performance that has to do, whether it's singing or dance, acting specifically, helps them understand how to deliver, how to hold an audience.

Tyson (06:42.691)
you

Kerry Barrett (06:45.292)
And then additionally, it gives them the skills to deliver that they can use, you know, basically for forever, for their entire life, because they understand no matter how nervous they are, they know how to deliver and they know how to hold an audience.

Jim (06:53.23)
you

Jim (07:01.294)
Speaking of holding an audience, a lot of lawyers would really like to be on local television. What do most lawyers get wrong about being on television or trying to get their stories told?

Tyson (07:06.678)
you

Kerry Barrett (07:10.986)
Legalese. Hands down, it's legalese. I also think, because lawyers have lived in their expertise for so long, they assume that whatever language it is they're using is also applicable to a potential client or an audience watching TV. So having an outsider come in and say, this is too long, this is too…

this is too complex. You can say this in three words rather than six. So do it in three and keep your words short. I don't want anything over three syllables. The other challenge is while many lawyers are, you know, if they are courtroom or trial lawyers, they're exceptional at analytics, data, research. They know how to perform in a courtroom, but they're delivering information. When you are speaking on a stage or you are…

Jim (07:51.406)
you

Kerry Barrett (08:08.502)
you know, getting in front of the camera, it's not just an opportunity to be a human virtual white paper. It's not, it's not, you're not a deliverer of information, you're performing. And so moving from, I'm a deliverer of information and facts and data to a performance mindset is the biggest challenge. Anytime you're in front of an audience, you're a.

Tyson (08:10.887)
you

Tyson (08:16.135)
you

Tyson (08:30.714)
you

Kerry Barrett (08:33.778)
performer and that applies to your local media or your national media outlets as well. One of the easiest ways is to create social media video, cobble together a reel of some sort and start pitching yourself. But you have to know how to perform because it's not always the best mind that gets on TV. It's a person who makes good TV and what makes good TV is somebody who's interesting, somebody who is intriguing and can hold an audience.

Jim (08:49.102)
you

Tyson (09:03.048)
That's so true. I don't know if you all know who Tony Kornheiser is, but he's one of the co -hosts of PTI, and he always talks about on his podcast about like sports. There's a TV show, and that's why things are done a certain way. It's not about the sport, it's about the actual TV show. And so it's about entertaining people, and I think that that's an important part of it.

Kerry Barrett (09:18.986)
Yeah, we entertainment or infotainment is big right now. Like if you go on LinkedIn, you'll see, you'll see sort of stodgy old stoic type, you know, horizontal videos with the wall of books behind them. That stuff doesn't really work anymore. It is, there's a balance, a fine balance between entertaining and being informational or providing education. And you can.

Jim (09:45.536)
you

Kerry Barrett (09:45.676)
even in the legal industry, overlap the two.

Tyson (09:48.552)
Yeah, so Mr. Beast just posted about that the other day, about how they're producing less videos, but they're spending a lot more time on making them entertaining. So I think that's a pretty valuable lesson. So I do maybe have sort of a boring question, though, because Jim and I, we had gone to a couple of conferences, and there was this person that was always there, and his shtick was that he would make it so you would look good on TV. Okay, and it was…

Kerry Barrett (10:17.11)
Mm -hmm.

Tyson (10:18.618)
I will say the there were these before -and -after pictures and they did he made a difference. Okay, he definitely made a difference So are there certain like tips or tricks like like do's and don'ts you should wear this color Don't wear that color like he would take if I remember correctly I think I saw somewhere like he would he took like paper clips and put it behind the guy's suit So it made the suit so it wasn't all bunched up and everything So I just wonder like like how much of that is is important for for video. I like look at this

Kerry Barrett (10:23.628)
Yeah.

Kerry Barrett (10:30.974)
Yes.

Kerry Barrett (10:36.856)
Oh yeah. Yeah.

Kerry Barrett (10:45.324)
That's why I have this next to my desk because if I'm wearing something that is, and for those of you listening, I'm showing a claw clip or a banana clip for those of you who are older like myself so that I can actually sort of cinch my jacket or my sweater behind me. So you're right. There are some things that work on TV that are sort of best practices. Something to note though.

Jim (10:55.886)
you

Kerry Barrett (11:13.132)
Just because you love it on yourself in person doesn't mean it's good on TV, right? Black and white are generally not good colors on TV. White because it blows out the iris of the camera and it's very hard for the videographers or robotic cameras even to adjust the iris to account for two people on the set, which is you and whoever the host is.

Jim (11:19.086)
you

Jim (11:36.718)
you

Kerry Barrett (11:39.766)
Black tends to absorb all the light, so you end up looking kind of like a blob sitting there. None of those, neither of those are good looks. So standards, that's okay. I see, and I thought it was gray. So, there you go. Don't wear a hoodie. No, I'm just teasing. Wear a hoodie if it applies to your brand.

Tyson (11:49.744)
as I sit here in all black right now too, so. I got a little gray right here, so it's good.

Jim (11:53.966)
And I go for it. I like hoodies.

Kerry Barrett (12:03.468)
Standard things that are applicable no matter where you are and this sort of applies to the stage as well or any anytime you're in front of a lens, whether it's for media or something else. No small patterns. So no small polka dots or paisley or stripes. For men, that doesn't necessarily apply if you're wearing a tie. Sometimes our ties have those sorts of designs on them. What I would do though is put it in front of a camera before you go on set.

Jim (12:04.512)
you

you

Kerry Barrett (12:32.332)
and see if it more raise, if it dances back and forth. That's, anytime you wear a small pattern, that is a possibility. Aside from they, your clothes stretch and they sort of sit weird and you don't recognize it when you're in person, but on TV you're.

your field of vision is so narrow, the audience's field of vision is so narrow, it's in that little box that every sort of thing that's out of place, flyaway hairs or clothes that don't fit right, they immediately hone right in on them and once they've done that, they're not listening to anything you say, they're focused on that annoying flyaway hair that they just can't, they wanna lick their hand and put it down. So solid colors, brand colors are great. If you are unsure of what to wear, blue,

Jim (13:04.97)
you

Jim (13:17.088)
. . .

Kerry Barrett (13:19.008)
is universally flattering. There is not a shade of blue that doesn't work on everybody. So if you're unsure, you don't have time to prep, wear something that is solid and wear something that is blue. Women can get away with a little more color, right? That's changing even a little bit more right now, but jewel tones look great on women. So like emeralds and ruby and sapphire garnet.

those sorts of colors, rich, saturated color, look great on camera as well. Yeah.

Tyson (13:53.736)
So I have a quick follow -up, Jim. So I noticed that you're wearing some dark glasses. Jim's wearing some dark glasses. Both of those show really well on screen. Is that by choice? Is that by design? Or is that something that's, like, is there something to the glasses as well you should focus on?

Kerry Barrett (14:09.9)
Jim, your glasses. I too am not fashion forward with my glasses. In fact, I've heard that these narrow frames are out right now, but I still like them, meaning they're not, they're not in the.

Jim (14:11.31)
I'm just teasing. No, no, these are, I have the thickest glasses. I've had glasses since second grade, so I'm just lucky to be able to see anything. So no fashion intended.

Kerry Barrett (14:31.404)
can be tricky because if you don't have the right angle of light, you get that reflection or glare. And while that seems like a minor detail, again, with people are so hyper focused on one image in front of them on their screen, they get really distracted by, I can't see his or her eyes. They just look like two white circles there. And the other thing that that does that, they,

Tyson (14:51.14)
you

Kerry Barrett (14:59.524)
gets in the way of is your audience being able to make eye contact with you. If they can't see your eyes, you have lost outside of a smile, probably the most important element of creating a rapport with whomever is watching you. And they won't be able to necessarily recognize what it is that they don't trust.

but it's that they can't look in your eyes. And if you think about the way a news anchor is framed, let's say, I mean, framed on, you know, they're on the desk and they're anchoring the news. If you think about how that's framed, generally it's a fairly tight shot, right? It's sort of like the way that we're all framed now, right? We're close up. We're not far away and you're not seeing our whole body. That's not happenstance. That is a very intentional move by…

Jim (15:24.16)
you

Jim (15:37.77)
Hmm.

Kerry Barrett (15:52.908)
the station, the producers, whomever, to allow the audience to have eye contact, right, virtual eye contact with the anchor. It establishes trust. So if your audience can't see your eyes, it's, yeah, you might as well not even go. So I would say check when you're on set and see if there's reflection in your glasses. And if there is, if you can do without them while you're there, go ahead and take them off.

If you can't, then you're just going to have to navigate your way through that and do the best that you can.

Jim (16:28.526)
I've often heard that the most popular news anchors have really big heads and luckily I have this huge, a huge noggin, right? And so I make, you can't see, but I make all my TikToks, let's see. They're very close, my face is very close. People on the comments are always like, brah, step back. Like, why are you so close to the camera? I don't know, I just like doing it that way. I got into a habit of it. People think it's sort of crazy, but that, yeah. When you're scrolling through it definitely does.

Kerry Barrett (16:51.788)
It makes you stand out. Get out.

Jim (16:57.358)
One of your expertise is helping people connect with an audience. And I was sort of serious about the hoodie. Lawyers don't wear hoodies on videos. And so I try to be real approachable. My clients are immigrants, so English isn't their first language. And I try to do a really good job of speaking in very, very plain English. And I try to talk slowly. But what are other ways that lawyers can build connections with potential clients through video?

Kerry Barrett (17:05.388)
No.

Kerry Barrett (17:24.46)
Absolutely. So we talked a little bit about legalese. I like to say if your audience doesn't understand what it is you're saying, they are out, right? You may catch them for a few seconds, but as soon as they feel stupid listening to you because they don't understand the words that you're using, they're out. And at that point, it is very, very hard to bring them back. So having somebody who's not

Jim (17:43.2)
you

Jim (17:47.854)
you

Kerry Barrett (17:54.252)
in the legal industry, listen to your messaging, listen to what it is that you want to say is key because the outsider is the person who's going to be able to tell you, I don't know what that word means. And you're using, again, an expert language that is unattainable or not known by your audience. So having somebody from the outside sort of watching and listening, that's key. So understanding how to talk to them, meeting your audience where they are. So…

in terms of dress, maybe it means slightly elevated dress than your audience. You don't wanna be super dressed up. And generally speaking, you don't wanna be dressed in a way that's, I don't know another word to use besides beneath, but you don't wanna wear something that looks too casual. Like you're not engaged with the audience. That is variable.

Again, all of this is art. It's not science. It's not data and statistics. It's not one plus one equals two. It's what works for each person, what works for each audience and the format or the medium through which you're talking. So understanding how to overlap your personality with the audience. So understanding the audience demographics and insight onto your audience is also a key way to drive connection because if they don't understand what you're saying and it's specifically for lawyers,

Jim (18:54.894)
you

Jim (19:07.936)
you

Kerry Barrett (19:16.076)
That's one of their biggest challenges. The other thing is to create what I like to call back pocket stories. So stories or analogies that take complex issues or problems within your industry and breaking them down into something that is easily understood by your audience. Hemingway wrote short sentence.

Jim (19:32.)
you

Kerry Barrett (19:45.452)
So I'll give you an example of one, something you shouldn't do. One of the most essential skills you need to get noticed is an exceptional pro in your field of work. Thus boosting your salary is that of communication, right? How would you say that for an audience who you need to have understand you? Communicate better. It's gonna boost your profile and it's gonna boost your salary. So dialing things down and using plain, simple conversational languages.

Jim (19:50.144)
you

Jim (20:08.75)
you

Kerry Barrett (20:13.426)
absolutely key and it's usually one of the things that people who have lived in their area of expertise for a long time and know the language forget.

Tyson (20:22.312)
Okay, was this Hemingway thing a back pocket story? Is that when you had canned ready to go?

Kerry Barrett (20:27.372)
No, I actually I'm working on I'm actually working on a talk. So I pulled together a couple of sentences. He talked about using monosyllabic simple words, right? I talked about don't use any word that's over three syllables. Explain it like you would to your grandmother. You want it brick to forehead obvious. And then one of the other things that he used in his writing style was analogies so that they can sort of take.

unfamiliar concepts or things that are complicated and difficult for them to understand and put it almost in a box that's familiar to them. And when it's familiar to them, then they can, they have a way to label it. They have a way to judge it and they have a way to decide if it's useful to them. You want to at least get your audience there rather than having them shut you out from the get -go.

Jim (20:56.974)
you

Jim (21:14.784)
you

Tyson (21:17.064)
Alright, so I want to ask you you mentioned framing a little bit ago and I think the thing I struggle with maybe the most is on some of the videos is getting the background looking right and is there like some formula like Jim's got a really good background I like his background that he normally records in front of I watch YouTube videos and there's like man that background looks fantastic like is there a formula to this like what is the trick because I Be honest with I can't figure it out. I suck at it and I need to hire someone to do it is what with the problem?

Kerry Barrett (21:25.856)
Yeah.

Jim (21:33.166)
you

Kerry Barrett (21:40.844)
cough

Excuse me for coughing. There's not a formula. And it depends on one person's aesthetic really versus another. But there are some basic principles that will always apply. Number one, you don't want to have your background terribly cluttered. You want it to be visually interesting.

Jim (21:51.168)
you

Jim (22:03.296)
you

Kerry Barrett (22:04.044)
but not so much that people are focused on whatever it is behind you rather than on your face. So for example, if you have a lot going on in the background, in fact, I have a stack of books behind me and I wish it wasn't there, but if you have a lot going on in the background or you have something in the background that is blurry and your audience is gonna be sort of leaning in and squinting their eyes and trying to figure out what the heck that thing is, then it's got to go. I like to take a screenshot.

Jim (22:08.526)
you

Kerry Barrett (22:33.836)
have somebody else look at your background. And the reason that that's important is because you have things in your background that you see in your videos all the time and they've sort of become white noise where someone who doesn't have a familiar sense of your background or hasn't seen it before, hasn't watched a video will notice immediately if something seems out of place. The other thing is that you usually wanna have a little bit of contrast with whatever is going on behind you. So if you have a…

Jim (22:39.584)
you

you

Jim (22:50.318)
you

Kerry Barrett (23:03.532)
light gray wall, maybe you want to wear something bright. If you have a light gray wall behind you, don't wear a light gray shirt because you're going to blend into the background and you want to have a little bit of pop, if you will, especially on TV. The other thing is you want to have a little bit of depth. So it doesn't have to be a ton, but you don't want to have your back up against a white wall, like a foot away from it. That has a sort of a hostage -y feel. So if you're in an area,

Jim (23:32.27)
you

Kerry Barrett (23:33.324)
where you don't have the ability to physically give your shot depth, what I would do is put your back to a corner of your room. So if you've got your corner here, sit in front of it facing away, and then you've given yourself a little bit of depth just by using that geometry of your room, your walls to do that. You wanna make sure that.

Jim (23:40.27)
you

Kerry Barrett (23:59.148)
they're appropriate and that there is, you know, visually that they're aesthetic, but that's a way to give yourself a little bit of depth as well.

Jim (24:07.47)
All right, so Kerry, tell us what is it like to work with you? What is your setup or how can you help? Most of our listeners are law firm owners or people who are thinking about going out on their own. What does it look like to work with Kerry Barrett?

Kerry Barrett (24:22.412)
It depends on what you need and what you want. Generally speaking, I have something I call my Confident on Camera coaching package. It is a three month program. We do a 90 minute diagnostic that involves shooting a video and a lot of questions and a lot of conversation and me asking additional questions. And then we put together something based on that diagnostic, where your skill set is.

to what your needs are and what you would ultimately like to use this new skill for, how you would like to leverage it. If you want to go on the stage and you never have the desire to be in front of the camera, right, while the skills overlap for the two, it is a different skill set. You have a stage, you don't have a stage on camera, you do have a stage in person. You use the skills in a different way, you deploy them. So,

It's a three month program. I also do one -off sessions, intensives, 60 or 90 minute intensives. I have VIP days that are six hours where people can work with me intensely, obviously through that six hours getting whatever they need done, whether it's content creation, whether it's skills, training, et cetera. And then I also do group coaching and I do keynotes and workshops for companies and organizations.

Jim (25:38.222)
you

Tyson (25:46.248)
Love it. That's excellent. Well, we are going to start to wrap things up. I've enjoyed this podcast thoroughly. So really good stuff. But before I do wrap things up, I want to remind everyone to join us in the big Facebook group. Go to Facebook, search Maximum Lawyer. You'll be able to find us there. There's over 6 ,500 members and we'd love to have you. If you want to join us at one of our quarterly masterminds, you can go to maxlawguild .com. If you're interested in joining the Guild, a lot of great people there. We actually had a video.

Kerry Barrett (25:46.54)
And that's it.

Kerry Barrett (25:54.164)
Thank you.

Tyson (26:16.12)
It's got still we had a I guess it was in Austin last year We did one on videos and how to shoot video that Jim put a lot of work into which was awesome last year So actually it was Scottsdale and I'm getting I am getting him mixed up. Yeah, and that you know Scott's to last year then we did a the Zapathon to and in Austin but anyways you if you want to join us for one of the goes one of those go to max law at guild calm and while you're listening the rest of this episode if you don't mind giving us a five -star review because I guarantee you got something out of this episode because I

Jim (26:27.916)
Scottsdale last year.

Kerry Barrett (26:28.972)
Ha ha.

Jim (26:32.878)
ZAP -a -thon.

Tyson (26:45.464)
Carrie has just she brought the best stuff today. So if you if you don't mind giving us a five -star review We would greatly appreciate it helps spread the love to other lawyers around the country Jimmy, what's your hack of the week?

Kerry Barrett (26:46.986)
Thank you.

you

Jim (26:56.142)
Well, I agree with one thing you said. For sure, Kerry brought it. I mean, Kerry, sometimes these guests come on and they're like, you can find out my really good stuff behind my paywall, right? And so those are like the worst and those are really hard to interview. But for my hack of the week, I have a new habit, Tyson. You're going to be very happy to hear about this. So I find myself sort of frustrated sometimes waiting on other people, waiting for my wife to come out, waiting for my kid to go to school, all that stuff.

Tyson (27:09.492)
Oh boy, am I? I don't know. We'll see.

Kerry Barrett (27:15.692)
Thank you.

Jim (27:23.438)
And I'll be out in the front yard getting ready to get in the car and do you know what I do instead of sitting in the car being mad I make a tick -tock. Yeah Yeah, so so if you find yourself just do it for over the next week If you find yourself with three to four minutes waiting on somebody else just pull out your phone Don't worry about the background just do a tick -tock and just see what happens people are getting way too rigid way too Oh, it's got to be perfect Just get the content out there and then deal with graphics and shit like that later

Tyson (27:30.692)
Oh, okay, very good.

Kerry Barrett (27:31.602)
Thanks.

Kerry Barrett (27:44.46)
you

Tyson (27:53.128)
Yeah, Jim is one of the most impatient people I've ever met. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna give you some crap I'm gonna pull pull the curtain back a little bit Jim at the end of this I guarantee Carrie at the end of this he will buy it I'll see you later. He hangs up right away. He's out. He's gone. There's no chit chat. He's done It's yeah, that's right. He's gone. But anyways Carrie we always ask our guests to give a tip or hack to all of our listeners. Do you have one for us?

Kerry Barrett (27:55.852)
Hahaha.

Jim (28:04.43)
No.

Kerry Barrett (28:05.15)
He's out. Leaving dust in his trail.

Kerry Barrett (28:19.724)
I was gonna mention moving into the performance mindset, but I realized that I gave that away in the middle of the podcast already. So I'm gonna move on to another one, which is when you are on stage or you're in front of a camera, there's two things you always need to have. One is a plan and one is presence. The plan is you understand your delivery, you know exactly what it is that you're delivering and you know to whom you are delivering it.

Tyson (28:31.788)
you

Kerry Barrett (28:40.684)
The second, the presence is what comes into play when all that other stuff goes sideways. When you forget where you are or you forget what you're saying or something goes wrong technically, then you have the presence to be able to carry the show, right? The show must go on. Standard show business fare. So plan and presence. Two things you have to have any time you get in front of the lens and any time you step on the stage.

Jim (28:48.594)
you

Jim (29:00.494)
Thank you.

Tyson (29:05.935)
great advice. I'm gonna teach my kids that when I get home. So I hope I have not given this as a tip. If so, it's still worth it with today's episode. So there's a TED Talk. It's called the 100 Days of Rejection. 100 Days of Rejection. So if you do struggle talking to people or being on stage or doing videos, check out 100 Days of Rejection. And it's this guy that put himself through 100 days. He just made up things like…

I've got to go ask someone for $100 today. Like things like that where he, I've got to go ask for a free coffee. So he would go to the coffee shop, hey, do you might give him this to me for free? And it taught him that like, rejection's fine. Like nothing bad ever happened to him during this. And cause he really, really struggled with it. And so I thought it was, it's a really cool Ted Talk. So it would, I think it would really help everyone when it comes to sales, you know, talking to clients, but talking to juries.

Kerry Barrett (29:50.188)
you

Tyson (29:59.695)
shooting videos, whatever it may be. So check it out. But Carrie, thank you so much. Just a great episode. Really, really love all the… You know what you're talking about. So really appreciate all the knowledge that you shared.

Kerry Barrett (30:13.292)
I appreciate you having me on, thank you. You got it.

Jim (30:15.726)
Thanks, Kerry.