Using TikTok As A Law Firm Owner with Kathleen Martinez 486

What if you could grow your leads, following and relationships with clients using social media marketing that cost you nothing? That is what our guest on the show, Kathleen Martinez did with TikTok. 

Showing off her funny, controversial, and passion for immigration law, Kathleen has grown her TikTok following to over 800K+ by showing up consistently and being herself. 

In this episode she goes over tips and tricks she’s learned along the way of growing her TikTok following as a law firm owner. She also dives into an easy way you can get started today on social media. Including biggest marketing challenges and making sure you set up an easy funnel for your leads to reach you AFTER they watch your videos and consume your content. 

Listen in!

Episode Highlights: 

1:54 Meet Kathleen

2:58 How to be a full-time virtual law firm?! 

4:07 What would be your biggest challenge as a law firm owner?! Including the biggest mistakes on TikTok …

6:02 TikTok process from Kathleen … including a call to action  

10:38 How long until you see traction on TikTok

12:55 How to post on TikTok AND Instagram … 

13:46 Using TikTok as a funnel 

14:36 What’s upcoming in TikTok land?!  

16:23 TikTok as a search engine?! And will TikTok overtake YouTube 

18:57 Starting out on TikTok?! Listen to Kathleen’s first steps here … 

Jim’s Hack: Jerry Seinfeld quote from an interview that he gave with a Harvard business:

“It’s very important to know what you don’t like. A big part of innovation is saying, you know what I’m really sick of? For me, that was talk shows where music plays. Somebody walks out to a desk, shakes hands with the host and sits down. How are you? You look great. I’m also sick of people who are really there just to sell their show or. So what am I really sick of? Is a great place for innovation to begin.”

So I just love that we can ask ourselves “What’s something that’s annoying me or that I really don’t like?” and then go against the grain and do something else.

Kathleen’s Tip: Do not be afraid to not only use social media, BUT be yourself on it! There are no judges on TikTok, their just regular people who wanna get to know you as a person, also as a lawyer. So show up as “yourself!” 

Tyson’s Tip: A trick to “be yourself on social media” is to visualize yourself being yourself and being that positive presence, in front of the camera. It’s an effective and simple tool that I recommend.

🎥 Watch the full video on YouTube. 

Connect with Kathleen:

• 
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• Facebook 
• Youtube
• TikTok 

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Transcript: Using TikTok As A Law Firm Owner with Kathleen Martinez

Speaker 1
Run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum lawyer podcast, podcast, your hosts, Jim hacking and Tyson metrics. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm.

Jim Hacking
Welcome to the show. Welcome back to the maximum lawyer Podcast. I’m

Tyson Mutrux
Jim hacking and tasty metrics. What’s up, Jimmy?

Jim Hacking
Oh, Tyson. Good to see you again. And I heard that you had a little victory that you just found out about

Tyson Mutrux
Yeah, really big case. exciting result we just got an appeal back we lost at the circuit level on a motion to dismiss which we completely disagreed with the judge’s decision and we just just moments ago got the appeal back the appellate court said nope, not so fast and it back down at Circuit Court. So we went on that really exciting because it’s a tragic case where the little little girl Madison was she end up dying and so I’m not gonna go into all the details but just because it is in still isn’t litigation little two year old girl. And I’m excited that I was able to to call the grandmother right before this podcast to tell her that they were going to really get some justice. So go after justice. So I’m just happy we’re gonna bill to get the chance to do it doesn’t mean we’re going to win, but at least we’re gonna have a chance to go after him. So

Jim Hacking
pretty excited about it. That’s great. You want to go ahead and introduce our guests for today’s show.

Tyson Mutrux
Absolutely. Our guest today is Kathleen Martinez. Kathleen is an attorney. She founded Martinez immigration. She received her bachelor’s degree from Mountain St. Mary’s University in Los Angeles, and her doctorate from Thomas Jefferson School of Law in San Diego. She has been practicing for over five years and is proud to provide services to the immigrant community. Their mission is to reunite families easily. And effectively. Kathleen, welcome to the show.

Kathleen Martinez
Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Jim Hacking
Kathleen, why don’t you go ahead and tell us a little bit about your journey to becoming a lawyer and then opening up your own firm?

Kathleen Martinez
Sure. Yeah. So I mean, I think I, like most lawyers found my path to a legal career in college. They’re like mock trial, moot court, all of that. So that’s when I really decided I wanted to kind of do that full time as an attorney. In law school, I did a few internships with immigration, family law, you know, I kind of wanted to find out what I wanted to do. And I really fell in love with immigration with my internship, specifically in an immigration firm. When I was licensed, I went straight into a family law practice, obviously, that was hectic at the least. And so I started helping my family law clients here in Texas with their immigration matters, because they didn’t want to hire somebody else. So I kind of trained myself in that worked for another immigration firm, and then decided I wanted to do that full time in the pandemic. Now, the pandemic was really why I started my own firm in a virtual format. So we’re entirely virtual, we do have a physical office, we just really don’t use it. Obviously, immigration is federal law. So it allows us to help clients in all 50 states virtually, with it

Tyson Mutrux
being a virtual firm, what are some of the challenges that you’ve faced? And how have you overcome them? Because it’s, it’s not the easiest thing to do in the world?

Kathleen Martinez
Yeah, I mean, I think mainly firms set up with my employees. So they all live all over the country. So our entire firm is like a cloud based system. Everything’s on Drive, everything’s on software, we have like 10 different software programs. Just the setup of that, and going from being trained as more of a traditional lawyer to more of a virtual lawyer was the hardest part. But I can safely say that after about two years, we kind of got a handle on it. And now all my paralegals are virtually trained. So I think that was the biggest challenge. But successfully, we’re over with that.

Jim Hacking
Kathleen, I practice with my spouse. And if she were here, she would ask you, how do you get your packets out? So that’s the actual paper production of USCIS. So paper heavy, how do you handle that being virtual,

Kathleen Martinez
we have a UPS account. So UPS power ups, they pick up the packages from me, and you know, my paralegals houses, they bring them to the clients client side, and they, you know, they review them and then UPS actually picks up the packets from my clients and Bails it off themselves to immigration. So it’s extremely convenient. My clients are happy about that part.

Tyson Mutrux
So I wonder, it sounds like you’ve got a firm that’s running well, that everything’s kind of running smoothly. What would you say your biggest challenges are as a law firm owner?

Kathleen Martinez
Oh, gosh, I mean, I think you know, the biggest challenge like I said earlier with, obviously the initial setup, I think any law firm owner, when you’re learning how to be an entrepreneur, and also marketing, marketing was probably the biggest challenge at first because as an associate attorney, you’re not trained on how to run a business you’re not trained on how to market and grow clients, you know, you’re kind of trained out in the more traditional model of you should just you know, have referrals coming out of the gate. So I really trained myself in a non traditional manner when it comes to tick tock so I do all my marketing on tick tock, it’s all free. It’s the best way to you know, obviously get clients right now as a business owner. So I think that was my biggest challenge as well as, you know, employees hiring the right employees when you’ve never met them physically when you can’t supervise them. And person all of it’s done virtually. So I think that was probably those two are my biggest challenges.

Jim Hacking
Awesome. Well, I’m glad you brought up tick tock, let’s talk about it. What mistakes do you see lawyers make when it comes to tick tock? I have a few ideas mostly about being boring. But besides that, what other myths? Yeah, so

Kathleen Martinez
I’m, yeah, I actually agree with that. See, I have a lot of lawyers who is on the side kind of training when it comes to tick tock and I see a lot of them trying to be boring and professional. I mean, for good reason. But it doesn’t grab the attention of the generation that is currently on tick tock, you have to be like other influencers, you have to grab their attention, you have to have clickbait titles, you have to be entertaining and funny because people don’t have the attention span to watch a 10 minute informational video with their hands crossed on your desk looking like your professional. So that’s the biggest mistake I see with lawyers is not trying to blend with the trends and be someone who a random person would want to stop their scrolling feed on and watch.

Tyson Mutrux
So walk us through your process because I we’ve had some some influencers on before. And everyone has a different process for when it comes to recording the editing, production, all that kind of stuff. So will you walk us through through your process so people have an idea as to how it works for you. Because it’s not as easy as just clipping a video posting on the internet. It’s, there’s a lot more to it.

Kathleen Martinez
Oh my gosh, it took me so long to kind of get the hang of it. It was definitely a learning curve. Yeah, I mean, Instagram and Facebook easier. You just make curated posts for your hire someone to do posts for you with information on it. But for tic toc. I mean, you actually have to yourself, be an entertaining person. You have to be funny, you have to be smart, you have to offer information in a way that grabs the attention of people. So how I did it is I actually hired someone from YouTube, who’s kind of a guru and influencer himself. He coached me specifically on how to make my videos TRENDING. But I have to, I still have to do a lot of research myself. So I mean, every day I’m on YouTube, as I get ready in the morning saying, which hashtags are trending? What are the most trending sounds right now? And how can I use that with immigrant content specifically, so I’ll use a trending sound, and then I’ll make it about how to get a green card. And I’ll just kind of curate it or tailor it to my content. So I typically film two days out of the week, and I’ll just take like, four hours each day, and I’ll film like maybe 3040 videos, and I’ll save them all drafts. So that way, I’m not wasting a lot of time filming. Obviously, at the beginning, it takes a long time to get the hang of it. But once you’re good at it, you know, it actually doesn’t take too much time. With immigration specifically, we’re obviously very dependent on news, because immigration is always changing. And so I’m always looking at the news that morning and seeing how I can update my followers on that as well.

Jim Hacking
Definitely one of the things that I’ve played around with and tick tock is this issue of a call to action, like what are your best ways to get people to raise their hand after you know, commenting or interacting with you on tick tock and bringing them over into potentially being a client?

Kathleen Martinez
Yeah, so I mean, for me, and it’s specifically for immigration, all make very short videos with very cliffhanger texts, like Did you know that you could get a green card from being a victim or witness to a crime and that’s all I’ll say, I won’t give more information. And then all these people watch this tick tock and all what they’re like, wait, I know someone who was a witness to a crime, I had no idea could get a green card this way. I’m gonna call her and I’m gonna schedule a consultation. I also do a lot of live lives are so important for lawyers. So I’ll do like two to three lives a week where I’ll do kind of immigration q&a, obviously, people ask me very specific questions like how can I get a green card? And I’ll be like, I don’t know, you have to schedule a consultation with me. So I’ll give broad general answers and broad general texts on my Tiktok that’ll make them require them to schedule a consultation with me so that they can find out more information.

Tyson Mutrux
When we go live on platforms like Facebook or even YouTube, we use something called stream yard where it allows us to interact with people or we’re using it do you use anything like that when you go live on tick tock? Are you just kind of get your phone out and just start going live?

Kathleen Martinez
I just go live? Yeah, I’m pretty like bare bones about it. But yeah, I mean, I just go live, when my followers have both, you can look at your analytics. And they’re always like the most available around four or 5pm, as well as 8pm. So I’ll go there. And I’ll just do a one hour q&a. And that’s about it. And I have a link in my bio, where you can just directly schedule your own consultation. So it’s really nice. I’m just like, click the link in my bio, they do it themselves, that syncs to my calendar. So it’s the fastest definitely the fastest way to get consultations for my firm.

Jim Hacking
One of the things I talked to people about when it comes to tick tock in YouTube is you never really know which video is going to go viral or get more views. Do you have any sense as to what are some common characteristics of the ones that get the most views and like,

Kathleen Martinez
right, so I mean, you almost it’s very humbling because the algorithm changes every single month. So at the beginning of each month, tick tock will just switch up the algorithm and I’ll even throw Tiktok off and like pause the app for a few days for everybody. But all I actually I will research what trending video so I’ll use hashtags in my niche. So like every Monday I’ll look up those hashtags like immigration and documented, I’ll see the most trending video within my niche and I will literally just copy that video and make it a little bit more my own. So right now I’m note I just do my own research I’m noticing that like five to seven second videos are the biggest trend was long text because Tiktok really prioritizes watch time so like you have a chance of your video being watched 100% of it short. So if it’s five to seven seconds and you have a really long text and it takes them seven seconds to read it, the algorithm is going to push out your video, but I mean, it’s so humbling because it’s always changing right when I think I got it, it’ll change the next month.

Tyson Mutrux
Well, as soon as we get done, I’m doing what you just said. I’m gonna see what happens just to test it out. That’s very cool. How long did it take for you to start to get traction on Tik Tok? Because I’ll be honest with you like I’m doing well on Instagram, but I can’t get like on Instagram. We’re doing really well on reels but tick tock, I’m not getting any traction and there could be a variety of reasons but like how long did it take for you to get traction on Tik Tok?

Kathleen Martinez
You know, it’s a funny speaking of Instagram, I’ve noticed I used to ignore Instagram and now I noticed that they’re competing with Tik Tok. So their reels algorithm is actually better than Tik Tok. Right now, I’m doing better on Instagram at this point. But when it came to Tik Tok, I just made the craziest video possible. I did a video about how I was raised conservative and I went way left when I became an immigration attorney. And it just shocked people. So it was, I guess, seen as like, I don’t know controversial video kind of a shocker i Here I am, like extremely white woman talking about how I was raised conservative and privilege now how it went super left when I became an immigration attorney. And it just shocked people. I mean, I think that’s what initially put me on the algorithm and that I just started talking about how I like standing up for immigrants and misconceptions of immigrants. And I think people really liked seeing someone who looked like me and had my profile really stand up for undocumented immigrants, because that’s not very common on that app. But yeah, I mean, and then I heard him hired my coach and my coach really encouraged me to do the hashtag thing, do research, see, which is the most trending in my niche, copy it, make it my own, use the same hashtags, same sounds, and never actually participate in trends. So you see those trending videos and most often they’re not, they’re kind of stupid, but I’ll use the sound in that trend, and I’ll do something more specific to immigration.

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Jim Hacking
You’re listening to the maximum lawyer podcast, our guest today attorney Kathleen Martinez, she has a big following on tick tock. I’m gonna ask a very basic question because I don’t know the answer. So you said you you film your tic tac or you filmed during the day, a bunch of different videos. I honestly don’t know. How do you post on tick tock and post the same thing on Instagram? Is that possible? Or is that what you’re doing? Is that a dumb thing to do?

Kathleen Martinez
No, it’s a smart thing to do. No one has time to just, you know record individual posts for both platforms. What I do is I a website called naps tick SN AP ti K. Don’t use the app, use the website and you can download your tiktoks Without a watermark and repost on Instagram. I reposted on YouTube shorts as well because now YouTube is now competing with Tik Tok. Everyone wants to be Tik Tok. So that is like the biggest hack when it comes to posting on other platforms.

Tyson Mutrux
I love that I wonder how does it work when it comes to the lead gen and then getting them into your funnel? Because I get the idea of it generating leads. But I worry a little bit about having to actually deal with all these messages on a regular basis. So so how do you filter filter them into your funnel other than them scheduling a time to meet with you by through the link?

Kathleen Martinez
Yeah, so I mean, I do have a social media person like on my Instagram, just going through my DMs I just pay her to do that. But we have an automated message that’s like the best way to clear them out. So we have you know, basically anyone asking for immigration questions, she just clicks like respond automated response. And it has the link for them to schedule a consult. And that’s that either like turns them off that they don’t want to pay for it or it makes them schedules. That’s the fastest way to deal with them. But it is a lot of work. That’s why I literally hire someone to do it for me.

Jim Hacking
So what’s next for you? Where are things headed? What’s going to change and tick tock land? What should we be paying attention to?

Kathleen Martinez
Yeah, I mean, I mean, just in general for tick tock. I think the algorithm is constantly going to evolve. Tic tock right now I’m hearing is they’re trying to be more of a search engine so they’re trying to become the next YouTube if they haven’t already. So educational content as well as being entertaining too. Talk is actually starting to favor professionals and less relatable people. So they like doctors, they like lawyers. They’re over the influencer blogger stage of Instagram. They’re trying to get away from perfectly curated aesthetics. So people like us, it’s actually our prime right now, for Tiktok. And in regards to me, I mean, I think we’re just expanding, we’re a virtual firm. So we save a lot of money, all of my employees work from home, which is great, you know, and I think we’re just going to hire more and more and have more clients, which is really nice. But thanks to tick tock, I’ll never spend another dime on marketing, that’s for sure.

Tyson Mutrux
When it comes to the immigration practice, are you wanting to and I know that you, you can sort of practice anywhere, but are you wanting to sort of have like that national reach when it comes to your firm? Or do you want to make it sort of a regional practice?

Kathleen Martinez
We’re not regional at all. I mean, I think we have clients from Texas just because it’s a big state for immigrants, but we have clients all over the country. And that’s because of tick tock so not a lot of people actually know like, even in Texas who followed me on tick tock, so I’m constantly advertising live videos that I can help you with immigration in all 50 states, and then I’m virtual on the right consultations can be done over the phone or over the computer. So I think we’re already at the national level. We’ve talked about maybe wanting to be more regional, but there’s really no point with immigration, we don’t have to be so likely, I think we’re just gonna, you know, expand, but we already have that reach thanks to the internet.

Jim Hacking
One of my kids told me that young people use tic tac for a search engine. Is that true? And how does that work? That is

Kathleen Martinez
correct stop because they’re trying to become the new YouTube. So you know, I don’t know if you’ve noticed on recent videos, if you go to a trending video, you can go to mine, you’ll see on the top, it’ll say like immigration lawyer, I don’t put that there, tick tock does. So they’re trying to make your videos specific to search engines. So how you can do that better is a really long description, with keywords and keywords on your titles as well, and your hashtags, it’s so important to put massive broad keywords in there that people will search, it’s really just all about SEO. So if you could make their content specific to tiktoks, you know, philosophy and their goal of being a search engine, you’ll definitely get a way more vital and very fast.

Tyson Mutrux
Alright, I want to I want to get your bold prediction here. Because Jimmy is a I’d say for lawyers, at least a YouTube legend. And so do you think that Tiktok will overtake YouTube? Or do you think that YouTube will remain the leading search engine? So that’s when he gets your prediction on that?

Kathleen Martinez
Well, that’s funny, because I read this morning, that tick tock is now the leading search engine, but I’m not sure if that was correct. I was gonna ask you guys about that. Because, you know, obviously YouTube has a different a little bit more of a, you know, a different I guess, reach, you know, is longer, more informational videos. But with this new generation, I just don’t think the they have the attention span for long videos with a bunch of ads, and it irritates people to see a ton of ads on videos, or they’re just trying to get a quick video in the next one. So I think with Generation Z, even millennials and with our current attention spans, you know, I think tick tock, if not already will be deleting cert search engine for sure.

Tyson Mutrux
Jim, do you want to take a shot at that one? Well, I’ll

Jim Hacking
just tell you that it took me 10 years to get to like 55,000 subscribers, it took me six months to get the 30,000 followers on Tiktok. So yeah, that’s what that’s worth the algorithm and tic tac land is just, it’s like none other. It’s unbelievable.

Kathleen Martinez
Yeah. And it encourages people to go on tick tock because everyone wants a following. Everyone’s kind of selfish in their own right. So ever, you know, people joined to talk because they’re like, maybe I’ll get a following then they end up following you. The algorithm is just way, way better. Even YouTube shorts. The algorithm isn’t great. My shorts don’t get good views on there, just Instagram reels is finally competing with Tik Tok finally getting up there, but I think YouTube is losing its popularity and I don’t see it being extremely successful in the long run.

Jim Hacking
My daughter is in charge of our tic tac channel for the firm, and she’s helped me follow those trends and do all those things. I’m just wondering if she wants to become a tick tock or what advice do you have for her starting out?

Kathleen Martinez
Yeah, hashtags are huge to understand what your niche is. So if it’s a specific area of law, to be following the biggest creators on Tik Tok and to be copying their content, I’m we all do it all the immigration lawyers, we do the same content, we just copy each other and utilize trending sounds, and really pay attention to the algorithm. So if you see that something some video in your niche has like 5 million views, you need to be copying that right away using the same hashtags, same sound and implementing lives as much as possible to kind of nurture your current following.

Tyson Mutrux
I love this. I can’t wait to re listen to this episode because I’ve already gotten some tips from you that I’m gonna implement right away that we’re not doing so very good stuff. But we do need to wrap things up. We want to be respectful of your time. Before I do. I want to remind everyone to join us In the big Facebook group, and if you want a more high level conversation, go to max law guild.com And join us there. And while you’re listening to our tips and hacks of the week if you don’t mind giving us a five star review, we would greatly appreciate it help spread the love to other attorneys that need the help Kathleen before I go to Jim for his heck the week what is your handle so people can find you?

Kathleen Martinez
It is attorney Martinez just all one term, no capitals or anything like that.

Tyson Mutrux
That’s easy peasy. Love it man. Just lawyer Tyson. So it’s easy peasy. Jimmy, what’s your heavyweight?

Jim Hacking
So it’s surprising how many times I’ve cited Jerry Seinfeld is one of my hacks of the week. But this one gets to a great question on innovation and how to figure out where to go next. And it comes from an interview that he gave with the Harvard Business Review. And the reporter asked him how he came up with his show Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee. And here’s what Jerry said, it’s very important to know what you don’t like a big part of innovation is saying, You know what I’m really sick of, for me, that was talk shows where music plays somebody walks out to a desk, shakes hands with the host and sits down. How are you You look great. I’m also sick of people who are really there just to sell their show or product. So what am I really sick of is a great place for innovation to begin. So I just love that. And I thought that we as we walk through our days as lawyers, as parents as family members, you know, we can ask ourselves, what’s something that’s annoying me or that I really don’t like and then go against the grain and do something else.

Tyson Mutrux
I really liked it. I love love Jerry Seinfeld, I think he’s great. He’s, he’s like one of the only comedians that can make people laugh without, you know, getting, like cussing a bunch and getting into Yeah, a bunch of other things. A lot. Great stuff. Jimmy. All right, Kathleen. So we always ask our guests to give a tip or hack of the week. It could be a podcast, it could be an influencer. It could be a book could be whatever you got for us. Do you have a tip or a Hackworth?

Kathleen Martinez
I think it’s more broad. But for lawyers specifically, to not be afraid to not only use social media, but be yourself on it. I have a lot of lawyers who are clients of mine in my consulting firm that want that are afraid to use social media too afraid to be genuine, or to use social media in a fun way and not have fun with it. Don’t be afraid, you know, they’re not judges on tick tock. They’re just regular people who want to get to know you as a person. Also, as a lawyer,

Tyson Mutrux
I love it. Very good stuff. And I think my tip might help a little bit, at least with this. So I’ve met with Jason selkoe, a few weeks ago, and he’s, he’s my coach. And so he was, I was telling him like, I felt like I wasn’t being as present at home. And like, we’re like with our kids and everything. And he said, well, like whenever you go through your daily routine, like he’s got this 100 seconds to success, kind of a thing that you go through, somebody calls up, that’s what I’m calling it. And he says to like visualize yourself, being patient with your children and being present with your children. And it really is helpful. So that’s how it would help with when it comes to your tip is like, actually visualize yourself being yourself and being that positive presence in front of the camera or being whatever you want to be in front of that camera for people on Tik Tok, or YouTube or Instagram, whatever it is. So sort of visualize yourself and it really is effective. It’s a it’s a simple, simple tool that’s really, really effective. So I recommend it. Kathleen, thank you so much for joining us. Hopefully people will follow you at attorney Martinez. Lots of great information being shared here. So really appreciate it.

Kathleen Martinez
Thank you so much. Appreciate. Thank you for having me. So yeah, thanks.

Speaker 1
Thanks for listening to the maximum lawyer podcast. To stay in contact with your host and to access more content. Go to maximum liar.com Have a great week and catch you next time.

Becca Eberhart
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