Are you looking for a better way to maximize meeting notes? In this episode, Tyson introduces the new segment, Max Law Tech Tips. He shares a valuable tech tip on optimizing meeting notes using ChatGPT.

Many have used ChatGPT for writing content, whether it be essays or resumes. But, it can really help with elevating meeting notes, especially within the legal field. Tyson shares his experience in using the platform, more so on how it provides the opportunity to create a visual timeline of cases. 

Pasting content into ChatGPT can provide deeper explanations, potential follow up questions and suggestions on next steps. It takes on the role of a legal assistant who gives you quick advice on what to do next. 

Test it out for yourself!

Take a listen!

Episode Highlights:

  • 00:24 Tysons journey to using Chat GPT
  • 1:12 The various capabilities of  Chat GPT


🎥 Watch the full video on YouTube here.

Resources:

Transcripts: Harnessing ChatGPT's Potential with Meeting Notes

Speaker 1 (00:00:01) - Run your law firm the right way. The right way. This is the Maximum lawyer podcast. Podcast. Your hosts, Jim Hacking and Tyson Metrics. Let's partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (00:00:24) - Hey, Tyson here. Welcome to the kick off episode of Max Lore Tech Tips, where I'll share quick, actionable tech tips to supercharge your work. Today's episode is all about harnessing the capabilities of GPT. No surprise there, especially when it comes to optimizing your meeting notes. So let's dive right in. And this may be something that you have not quite thought of. It's something I've sort of stumbled on because I think most of us, when you think of ChatGPT, you're primarily viewing it as a conversational AI like most people, which is obviously great for answering lots of questions, although it has gotten some things wrong fairly recently, or assisting with writing content. I know a lot of people are using it for that, but what you might not realize is that you can also use it.

Speaker 2 (00:01:12) - It's a massive it's a powerhouse, I'd say, for transforming and enriching. Your meeting notes just the other day. Is this something I stumbled on? I took a list of my notes from one of our cases and I pasted it into ChatGPT just because I was curious to see what would happen. Obviously I removed any sensitive information about my client, so like there was nothing in there that would identify my client or the case that that was being pasted in there. But it was mostly just dates and times for the most part. And I was really surprised by the results when I did it. What happened was it asked me if I wanted a visual representation of my my case. And I was like, Well, yes, it's let's see what happens here. And what happened was, is it created a visual timeline of my case. And it was extremely accurate. It was incredible to see and it was really cool. And it allows you give me a little option to view it right away. You click on the link, or I could also edit it, which was also pretty cool, and that would then open you up in a new new tab.

Speaker 2 (00:02:20) - That was really cool. What I expected was a summary or really a rephrasing, but like what I got was way better. And really this is just one example of what it can do. Sometimes it'll give you just deeper insights as to what you paste into there. Sometimes it'll give you potential follow up questions, sometimes I'll give you reminders, it'll ask you questions sometimes, Sometimes it'll give you suggestions on next steps that you might want to take. It's kind of like having a sharp legal assistant that that give you that instantaneous feedback and some insights. And it's just by taking your notes that you already have and just inputting them into GPT. No prompt. I didn't give any prompt at all. All I did was just paste it in there. So hopefully you'll test this out if you do and you like it. And I'm really curious to see what you, what what you think of it. Text me. I'd love for you to text me just to let me know how it goes. The text line is (314) 501-9260 and just let me know what you think and if there's any tech tips that you want me to cover on on this series, just let me know.

Speaker 2 (00:03:27) - And I'm happy to try to get to it. All right. That's a wrap for our first tech episode. Make sure you listen to our next episode, because what I'm going to do is I'm going to go over the what you should look for when thinking about adding a new software to your firm, to your firm's tech stack. So check that out. I'm going to go through really a checklist that allows you to, instead of just following the shiny bouncy ball, think about it first before you start to implement things and drive your team crazy. All right. Until then, have a great week and we'll talk to you next week. See you.

Speaker 1 (00:04:07) - Thanks for listening to the Maximum Lawyer podcast. Stay in contact with your host and to access more content, go to maximum lawyer.com. Have a great week and catch you next time.

Do you struggle with constantly checking your email or phone notifications? In this episode of the Maximum Lawyer Podcast, Tyson discusses how constantly checking your emails can have a negative impact on productivity and mental well-being. 

Whether you work in an office or work for yourself, many people fall victim to constantly checking their emails. This might not be at the fault of an individual person. This can stem from a culture of needing to respond to messages and emails quickly. Tyson refers to a study that shows that a constant string of emails can keep employees in a state of high alert all the time and actually increase stress levels.

It can be difficult to maintain focus when checking emails. If you are focusing on a task and you keep stopping to check an email, it will take more time to complete that task. It helps more to schedule time to check emails in blocks so you can complete all of your tasks for the day.

Tyson provides a few tips on checking emails at specific times throughout the day. Choose times in the day that work for you or when you usually find there is some downtime. If you find yourself more focused in the morning, check emails after lunch. If you have a specific day where a majority of your meetings are in the afternoon, check your emails in the morning.

Another tip is to communicate this schedule with clients. Let them know in your email signature that you check emails a few times a day so they know they might not get a response quickly. This way, you are able to maintain a level of consistency and efficiency in your day.

Take a listen!

Episode Highlights:

  • 2:42 Discusses the challenges and costs of constantly checking emails
  • 3:47 Discussion of how a study shows that constant emails increase stress levels
  • 7:09 Provides pointers for transitioning to checking emails only at designated times


🎥 Watch the full video on YouTube here.

Resources:

Transcripts: Breaking the Email Addiction: Embracing Scheduled Checking for Mental Clarity

Speaker 1 (00:00:01) - Run your law firm the right way. The right way. This is the Maximum lawyer podcast. Podcast. Your hosts, Jim Hacking and Tyson Metrics. Let's partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (00:00:24) - Hey, everyone. Tyson here. Welcome back to another Saturday episode of the Maximum Lawyer podcast. Before I dive in today into the intricacies of our digital relationships with email, Jim and I have an exclusive offer we're thrilled to share with you. We've spent a lot of time on this. It's called Maximum Lawyer and Minimum Time. It's a roadmap that we have meticulously designed to guide you in building the firm of your dreams. This is normally something that we just give to guild members whenever they join the guild. But what we're going to do is we're going to extend this offer to our podcast community. And what we're going to do is give the first stage of maximum lawyer and minimum time to you completely free. All you have to do is text me at (314) 501-9260. Just text stage 1 to 3 145019260.

Speaker 2 (00:01:21) - And the guide it encapsulate what's really the years and years now seven years of expert advice that we've gotten from many people that we've had on the podcast as it encapsulates our experiences over the years. So I hope, I hope that you will take advantage of it because there's a lot of great information in there. So check it out. Just remember text stage one to us and we'll send that out to you right away. All right. So let's get back to today's focal point. And that is our really our modern day obsession with emails and the transformative power of checking our email on a schedule. Right. How about that? Instead of that constant dinging that you get, let's just start by saying turn off the notifications. That's that's a given. At this point. You should not have notifications, your stress levels. If you do have notifications on your watch or on your phone, it's probably driving you nuts. And your stress levels are probably through the roof. But what I want to talk about today, though, is checking email on a schedule, because I understand that the conveniences of this digital era that we've been living in, living in, they're great, but they're also not without their challenges.

Speaker 2 (00:02:42) - There is that constant urge to always refresh your page, always refresh your inboxes, check your email, pick up your phone. Look at it is a it's a constant challenge that many of us have grappled with or currently grappled with on a I wouldn't even say daily basis. I would say a minute by minute basis. I know how some of you are of seeing you in real life. I know. I know how it goes. I've been there myself. It's a very stressful thing. But the question is at what cost? What does it cost us? What is this ongoing digital vigilance exact on our mental well-being, on our effectiveness as attorneys and as business owners, and on our efficiency? You know, these are definite costs. And there's this interesting study. It's from UC Irvine and the United States Army, which I felt I thought that was a really odd combination. But what they do is they tracked participants with heart rate monitors both before and after subjecting them to email. Yes, I said, subjecting them to email.

Speaker 2 (00:03:47) - And they found that a relentless stream of emails keeps people in high alert state, which significantly escalates stress levels. And then on the other hand, though, they found that limiting email access dramatically reduces stress levels, which is interesting. It actually gets better. Those without access to email switched windows an average of 18 times per hour compared to people with access to email. They did so on an average of 37 times per hour, which was a significant difference. What was really bad, though, is once you are interrupted by an email or an email notification, it takes an average of 23 minutes to regain the same level of concentration that you had on that initial task, which is just shocking to me. And if you kind of think about Tim Ferriss strategy that he talked about in the four hour workweek, and what's interesting is, is and I don't think he really had the science to back this up at the time, but he talked about how he only checked emails a couple times a day and he did so at designated times.

Speaker 2 (00:05:00) - And he did it to minimize interruptions, to maintain his focus and to also reduces stress. And I understand how some of you are right now. You're probably saying, well, I can't do that because I'm going to miss something really important. There's going to be something really crucial and I can't miss it. And let's be honest, that's ridiculous. At this point, you're probably just trying to find ways to get back. In your email inbox. You're trying to find an excuse to do it. You're looking for that dopamine hit of checking your emails, what you're doing. And it's it is not worth it. The likelihood of you having something super urgent hit your inbox is very unlikely. If it's that urgent, they're probably going to be giving you a phone call, which just how it works today and as Tim Ferriss puts, being overwhelmed is often as unproductive as doing nothing in is far more unpleasant. That is a very, very good point. Okay. That overwhelm. It's very unpleasant. Not a good thing was interesting.

Speaker 2 (00:06:01) - There's actually there's another study. It was printed. It was published in computers in human behavior. And they found that. And so this is what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting that you pick a couple times a day to check your email three times a day at most. But they found that people who check emails only three times daily, they report significantly diminished stress levels. On top of that, it boosts productivity and it has positive effects, actually tangible positive effects on overall well-being. So the proof is in the pudding. Okay, it's there. The science backs it up. Don't try to tell me that you're more productive if you check email all the time because you're not. The data does not support your position. If you are at this point checking your email on a regular basis, you're doing so because you want the dopamine hit. That's why you're doing it. All right. So here are some pointers for the transition to only scheduling your email checks. Make sure you do establish designated times and make sure that you know everyone in your on your team knows about it and you're going to want to make sure you're aiming for periods after your core work tasks.

Speaker 2 (00:07:09) - For example, I like to do like my main thinking work in the morning and so I don't check my email until after that. Okay, so mine's at 1130. Yours may can vary from time to time. There are several studies I've seen that that support. You should not check it in the morning at least first thing. Definitely not first thing. So don't pick up your phone and check it right away. But do choose designated times. I think starting first thing in the morning with email is probably a really, really bad thing. The second thing is just make sure you have transparent communication with your clients and the people that you deal with on a regular basis. I use autoresponder. I know that that sometimes is unpopular for many people. You can use a signature or put something in your signature, you put something in your footers. It just let people know that you have a certain schedule. It could be as simple as I review emails at 10 a.m. and 4 p.m. daily. Okay. It can be something as simple as that.

Speaker 2 (00:08:03) - I do want to caution you, though, I once had a client email me because I did not respond at one of those times and they were unhappy. So if you you could you could just say that you, you check it twice daily and you don't have to say when those times are if if that is one of your concerns. But just just know that if you do include times in there, people are going to expect a response. That's just it's just how it is. Make sure you're also are you're harnessing email tools that are out there. There's plenty of them out there. But regardless of the tools you use, prioritize the emails. So you're going to triage them. Kind of like you would triage patients at an emergency room, also create filters. There's a lot of cool filters that you can use, a lot of things you can use when it comes to creating filters to help you get emails to where they need to be. And then, gosh, get rid of all the notifications, get rid of your desktop notifications, get rid of your phone notifications.

Speaker 2 (00:08:59) - They're an absolute killer. They're going to give people heart attacks. They're just awful, terrible for mental health. Something else to consider is that if your email response or if the or if an email you're drafting, if it takes longer than or if if it's longer than a sentence, you may want to consider just giving the person a phone call. Because the issue is if you send that, there's my guess is if you send especially, you know, a one sentence or two sentence email, there's gonna be a lot of questions that they're going to have. And one especially the longer emails, it takes a really long time to draft some of these emails because you want to be as detailed as possible. Just freaking pick up the phone and call them. Just pick up the phone and call them. It is it is a lot easier. But the bigger problem is that you have a lot of context that you lose when you send something in. Just text the so if you want to convey a certain message, pick up the phone and call the person.

Speaker 2 (00:09:53) - I understand as lawyers, we want to get a lot of things in writing. I understand that. And if you have a valid reason for doing that, definitely, by all means, get it in writing. So I'm not saying that, but you do want to convey a certain message a certain way, pick up the phone and call as opposed to sending the email. It can save you a bunch of time because instead of you sending emails back and forth to convey that message to them. All right. So I do want to wrap things up. I want to remind you as well, the the intention here isn't merely about enhanced productivity. It's really not. It's really that conscious effort to prioritize our mental health and our holistic well-being being okay. It's it's really about that. Productivity is one of those benefits of it as well, but it's really about the mental health aspect. And so keep a focus on that. Remember, if there is something specific you want me to cover on the show, just shoot me a text 314 501 9260.

Speaker 2 (00:10:48) - You want to get stage one, Just take stage one to that same number. As always, make sure you stay tuned for our next episode. Until then, remember that imperfect action will always eclipse perfect in. Take care.

Speaker 1 (00:11:02) - Thanks for listening to the Maximum Lawyer podcast. Stay in contact with your hosts and to access more content content. Go to maximum lawyer.com. Have a great week and catch you next time.

Are you struggling in the intake process as a lawyer? Is your firm finding it hard to maintain clients? In this episode, attorney Gary Falkowitz shares his insights on how to win at intake. 

Gary works with law firms to patch up the holes that exist and make firms better. Intake involves the process of when a potential client connects with a law firm. There are many steps to ensure the intake process is top tier.

1 | Clients

One of the many important things to consider when going through intake is understanding the mindset of a client. Living in a fast paced digital world, people want quick responses. If a firm wants a new client, that firm needs to be swift and respond as fast as possible. If not, the firm risks losing them to another law firm. 

Clients seeking legal representation are usually dealing with heavy things. Whether it be an injury, criminal case or a divorce, no one wants a lawyer. With that said, make sure you are showing compassion and speaking to them in plain language. Many cannot understand legal jargon!

2 | Training 

What makes intake a significant part of working with a client is the training process. It is important that those that work in a law firm are equipped with ongoing training to stay up to date on the intake process. Training can include how to respond to clients when they first reach out or how to run a successful intake call or meeting. Lawyers need to know how to make a decision on the fly, especially if a prospective client calls and wants a quick response. If the lawyer is up to date on the criteria, they should be able to know at that moment if the client can be represented. 

3 | Follow Up

Following up during the intake process is where some clients actually make a decision on a law firm. Most times, potential clients are submitting inquiries to multiple firms just waiting on the first response. If a client emails an inquiry question, respond once and then follow up again. Most times, clients are juggling a lot of different priorities and that inquiry fell off their radar. The follow up might just be the thing that reminds them and pulls them in.

The best way to keep a client is having a strong transition. Once a client is signed, give them homework. Give them all the information they need to feel supported. Provide information materials about the firm, contact information for the team, what you as an attorney expect from them and vice versa. Managing expectations is key. You need to express what you need from them and they need to express what they as a client need from you.

Take a listen to learn more about how to have a successful intake process!

Episode Highlights:

  • 2:09 Understanding the mindset of potential clients
  • 3:53 The significance of training and ongoing education
  • 9:27 Staff should be trained to make decisions
  • 11:58 Law firms should continue following up
  • 17:04 The importance of maintaining communication with clients


🎥 Watch the full video on YouTube here.

    Connect with Gary:

    Resources:

    Transcripts: How to Win at Intake with Gary Falkowitz

    Speaker 1 (00:00:00) - In today's episode, we're sharing a presentation from Max Lakhan 2022. Keep listening to hear Gary Falco's as we share his talk. How to win at intake. You can also head to the maximum Lawyer YouTube channel to watch the full video. Now to the episode.

    Speaker 2 (00:00:15) - Run your law firm the right way. The right way. This is the maximum lawyer podcast podcast. Your hosts Jim Hacking and Tyson Tricks. Let's partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.

    Speaker 3 (00:00:38) - Gary Falco is here. I'm going to make this. We're going to go fast. We're going to be loud. We're going to go fast. I'm going to give you as much information as possible to make sure that you can grow your firm appropriately, efficiently, effectively. Understand this. I should tell you why I understand this. I have spoken at many conferences, some of which have law firms that are pretty large, signing 4 or 500 cases a month, and some of which do have a law firms that are just getting started. Everything I said I'd say today, regardless of the size of your law firm, will help you do a better job at intake.

    Speaker 3 (00:01:14) - My bio, I'm an attorney. I worked with a large law firm. I wrote a book on intake, have my own call center. I still get involved in cases where a co-counsel other law firms. This has become my career. And if you told me that in law school, I think you were crazy. I didn't never heard the word intake before, but something about the business of law and being an entrepreneur and wanting to fill the holes in a business really appealed to me. And here I am jumping all the way in. Okay, here are your keys to winning at intake. And we're going to get let's move this over here. We're going to get into each of these today very quickly. You need to know the mentality of a new claimant. You need to create a team of experts and advocates. The big one here, we need to remove the weight. I'll talk about that momentarily. We have to appreciate the competition, follow up aggressively, decide immediately. We need to make the process of signing a new client easy.

    Speaker 3 (00:02:09) - We have to have a smooth client transition Once they become a client, the next steps and then we have to hold all of our teams, both internally and externally, accountable. Again, loud apology. It is not I'm not yelling at you. I am passionate about the topic. Let's start with the knowing the mentality of a new claimant in this day and age with how advanced we are with technology and the iPhone. We want them. When we want something, we want it now. I want to buy a new pair of shoes. I'm going to get them on the way to the airport. If I want to order Uber some food, Uber eats. I'm not waiting till I get home. I'm not stopping to pick it up. I could do it at the you know, when I'm waiting outside picking up my kids. Right. We want things immediately. And that's what wins, by the way. And I'll be repeating that sort of theme throughout the next 15 or so minutes. Speed wins there.

    Speaker 3 (00:02:58) - A claimant's interest is highest when they first contact you. Okay? Which means that we have to be prepared to give them the response that they deserve and need to make them a client. Now, as every day their interest kind of decreases because distractions increase. You need to understand that that doesn't mean you stop following up. You just need to appreciate that that first time they reached out to you, if you're not throwing out every potential weapon in your favor to bring them in, you might be losing them to another another law firm. They're looking for reassurance, guys. You're looking for compassion, reassurance and confidence. Now, most of what most of my clients, when I consult law firms on intake or I speak on a stage, most of my law firms are personal injury law firms. But everything I'm saying could be adopted for other law firms as well. Here's what's interesting about it You never need a lawyer until you need a lawyer, and most of us will never need a lawyer. Most of us will never need a personal injury lawyer.

    Speaker 3 (00:03:53) - If I asked you right now, I probably see about 50 or 60 people in the audience. Raise your hand if you ever needed a personal injury lawyer. You. I see. Two, three, four, five, maybe five. Hands up. Five hands. Right. That is less than 10% of the people in here. Which means that. And raise your hand if you need a personal injury lawyer twice in your life, raise your hand. One person needed it twice in their life. Which means that if you ever need a personal injury lawyer, you probably don't need it once in your life. You've never had those conversations, The ones that you're having internally in your office about all the legal issues and and the filing and the administrative and the fees. They don't know anything like that. They just want to know, Hey, can you help? So we've got to make sure that if we can give them that reassurance, Hey, Mrs. Johnson, you did the right thing by calling. We handle blank cases every single day.

    Speaker 3 (00:04:39) - Perfect. Because I was nervous. I didn't know if you guys did this type of case. Boom, That's how you start the conversation. They don't believe that hiring an attorney is a priority, which is why it takes so long sometimes for them to even reach out. They talk to their family, they talk to their friends. They talk to their colleagues. They don't know that it's necessary. They just see the commercials and say, maybe it's a good idea, maybe it's not. We also have a bad reputation, unfortunately, guys, so we have to constantly go up against that. They don't want to be intimidated. Don't use the legalese on the conversation, the conversations. And they're looking for trust. Right. And the people that you have picking up the phone calls, they're the ones that have to create that trust. Two years, one mouth. Right. Do more listening than speaking. Answer their questions. They want to be reminded, even if it's been three or 4 or 5 weeks or months since they reached out to you.

    Speaker 3 (00:05:26) - Keep reminding them only stop following up when they tell you or you go a significant period of time, which I talked about in a moment with radio silence. They're filled with anxiety. It's likely their first time they'll tell you if they're not interested. They'll even tell you why. Do not hesitate about asking why. I speak to the claimant. They say, You know what? I'm not going to go this route. May I ask you what happened? Oh, you're going to learn a lot of information. Maybe you're someone. Something. Somebody in your office said to them. Maybe another lawyer told them something that just isn't true. Ask them why. And they don't believe that their case is large enough for you. I cannot tell you how many times a claimant thinks that because they don't have a surgery where their arm was taken off and they got to somehow fix the arm, they think they see the commercials. They've got to have like a $27 Million case. I've seen those commercials. I don't have a $27 million case.

    Speaker 3 (00:06:13) - I've just been to the doctor for the past year. Wait, that's exactly the type of case we handle. So they're not sure of that. Create a team of experts and advocates, which requires a strong initial training. I'm actually in the process, really excited about it. By the end of the summer, it'll be live where I have a virtual training and certification course for intake specialists. Receptionists of most. This one is for personal injury lawyers, but it's going to be tremendously impactful and valuable for your firm. They need continued training. Just like we get close, they need continued training about maybe the dialogue or the criteria has changed. I'm going fast. I only got a few more minutes here. Daily huddles, frequent internal meetings with attorney involvement. The more that they get to speak to attorneys about their job, the more valuable they feel. If you're creating this Chinese wall of intake over here, lawyers over there, and they don't even talk to each other, I'm telling you, it's a recipe for disaster.

    Speaker 3 (00:07:05) - They need to talk to each other. They're going to feel like, Oh, the lawyer knows my name. These are the conversations. I've managed an intake department. I know this. The lawyer knows my name. He said, I did a good job at this intake. Oh, guys, I just learned that we don't want these type of cases because of A, B, C, D, and E, Right. Let the attorneys speak to their intake staff. Make sure they appreciate the intake staff. Too often, intake specialists are so nervous to speak to the attorneys about a case that they just tell the claimant. I don't think it's something we can help you out with. Can you imagine it's happening? I promise you it's happening. I'm not making it up. It's because they're scared. They're scared to say the wrong thing. They're scared that an attorney might yell at them. Right. Tell your attorneys how important they are to your firm. Recurring updates to your intake manual. If you don't have one, reach out to me.

    Speaker 3 (00:07:47) - You need to have an intake manual. Give them respect and credit rewards and thank you's right This day and age, money is not enough, right? Hearing a thank you is so important, right? If they reach a certain goal, let them get a reward. That's fantastic. That's how you create a strong environment. Ask for their input. They are the boots on the ground. They know what's going on. Ask them, Hey, what's what are the challenges you're having right now? You'll be surprised what you're learning. Remove the weight. My biggest one, guys, In this day and age, I understand how important it is to have people speak on the phones. Okay. Not saying that's not important. You know, it's more important. What's number one? Number one, priority response time. Response time wins ten out of ten times. All right. You could be. The solo practitioner has never practiced law and picked up the call first. And you might win over Morgan and Morgan because they took five minutes.

    Speaker 3 (00:08:39) - They don't know when someone calls you up, they don't know your resume. They don't know how many cases you resolve. Last year. They're not much money you made last year that not many lawyers are in your firm. They don't know what the budget is. All they know is they spoke with someone immediately and they were great in the phones. That's a huge plus. Makes you wonder why your intake staff are getting paid so little. But that's for another day, right? I mean, the response time Remove the weight from response time. Ring time. Here's a stat for you. I'm going to throw it out right now, guys. On average, 10% of your inbound calls are abandoned. Sorry, 10% of your inbound calls are banned. That means someone hung up midway through. On average, 20% of your inbound calls get picked up and more than 30s. Would you guys wait 30s if you needed a lawyer? I wouldn't. That's a problem in the industry. Remove the weight would transfer time.

    Speaker 3 (00:09:27) - Let me get you to a lawyer. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. Right. For two minutes until a lawyer picks up the phone. Got to remove that decision making. If we need to train our team to make decisions, we cannot have them say, Let me go ask the lawyer and get back to you or let me think about this or can you get that police report for me? We can't do it. We don't have the time. Time's not a luxury anymore. Competition is too intense. Train our staff to make decisions. Here's the best thing about decisions, guys. If you're a personal injury law firm specifically, and most other law firms as well, you could reject them after you retain them. Right? I have this thing in my book where I say it's better and I'm probably repeating myself. It's better to retain that investigate, then investigate than retain. You don't have time to investigate a matter if it meets criteria, you sign it up under review, pending considering investigating.

    Speaker 3 (00:10:11) - That's what your CRMs are all saying you're doing. Don't do it. Remove that status. Don't even use it. It's just a black hole. Call back scheduled meetings. If I speak with a law firm that is still, Oh, I need to meet with them in person before I sign them. Well, I can't help you. Then. I can't help you. That's a problem. Remove the weight. Appreciate the competition. Let's start the assumption that the claimant reached out to two of the law firms. But before reaching out to yours. It's a competition. There's no way that your reputation, even your cousin, I mean, think about this. How many calls have you heard where someone says, I'm not going with you, I'm going with my cousin? Think about that from a from a different angle. They've always had their cousin, yet they still called you. Where's the loyalty to family? Right. Point is, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. You're competing. The moment you think you're not competing, you lose.

    Speaker 3 (00:11:03) - You are competing. So now what is your response? Like the like the doctor yesterday talked about? What's your response to resolve that? Right. I have to have better staff. I have to respond faster things of that nature. Is your staff more likable? They faster Are they selling better? Do they have accolades? Do they know about if you were on the top 50 firms in the history of law firms, they should know that if you resolved 4000 cases, they're all auto accidents last year. They should know that if you have a Harvard Law graduate, they should know that. Let them know about what to brag about for you. You're competing. Okay. Follow up aggressively said this before. Let's start with the assumption that we should not stop following up until the claimant tells us, Hey, Gary, please stop calling. Yes, sir. I'll call in again. You told me not to or we followed up for an extensive period of time without success or with radio silence and by extensive period of time, guys, I mean a few weeks.

    Speaker 3 (00:11:58) - I don't mean four times. I don't mean four times. They could be on vacation. It bothers me when I go in and I work with a law firm and I talk about their follow up process and they tell me when they quit following up, I go, Come on, you know, they could be on vacation. Their grandmother could be sick. They could be they could have Covid. They could be there's a million things that could be distracting them where they don't realize that the priority is to hire a law firm just because you know it's a priority, just because, you know, you can get them three and a half times more money for their injury they can get on their own. Doesn't mean they know that, Right? Put yourself in their shoes. Ensure that your team is reviewing open leads on a daily basis. That's the most obvious thing here. And yet I have to put it in there. Make sure every open lead, regardless of the status, is being reviewed every single day.

    Speaker 3 (00:12:47) - Every single day. I don't care how strong your your lead docket, your file vine, your smart advocate, your capital, whatever you're using, I don't care what it is, you got to review it every single day. Someone has to have that responsibility. And by the way, someone not hey intake staff of again, we have some people out here that have no intake staff. They have a receptionist. This is still valuable to you. We have some people out here that have 18 intake staff members out there. It can't be it's got to be a specific responsibility. You, Mary or John, I want you to review those open leads every single day. Example, five attempts in the first three days. That's not crazy. You should be following up on, let's say a web lead reaches out to you through your chat or through through a web inquiry. And oh, by the way, just to go, go back to the competition for a moment. How simple do you think it is when someone types out a summary in a web inquiry and then copies it and goes to three other websites, goes to the web inquiry and paste, submit, paste.

    Speaker 3 (00:13:43) - Submit, paste. Submit. It's pretty easy. We all do it and could do it. Got to understand how competitive this is. Example minimum of three weeks of calls, texts and emails. If you're not using text messages, you're in trouble. You have to be using text messages. One of the companies that I'm involved with, what we do is do you know what I think is more valuable than Google? I was talking to someone last night about this. You know, it's more valuable than Google your phones, the contacts on your phone beat Google because you won't go to Google if you have an AC repair guy that's saved as AC repair guy, you're not going to Google for a painter. If you got a painter saved in your phone, you're not going to Google for a P.I. law firm. If you have personal injury law firms saved in your phone. But Gary, how do we do that? Easy. I could do it for you. I could tell you exactly how to do it.

    Speaker 3 (00:14:30) - And this way, everything that comes into your firm gets your V card, and now they potentially become advocates. And now when they're in a group chat with their friends and their friend says, Anybody have a good lawyer? I do. Let me show you. Let me give you his contact information. I did it a few days ago for an electrician. For a painter a few months ago. I don't remember who the electrician was or the painter was, but I have them saved in my phone and I recommended them. Texting is a necessity. Make signing easy, right? Don't delay. Don't wait for in-person meetings. You have to use electronic signature. As long as you know your state and your field allow it, you have to use it. By the way, walk them through the electronic signature. None of this. Hey, I just sent it to you. Once you sign it, you'll become a client by. No, no, wait. Say to have ten more minutes on the conversation.

    Speaker 3 (00:15:17) - Hey, Mrs. Johnson just sent you a retainer. What I'm going to do right now in our agreement, by the way, use the word agreement. I hate the word retainer. Retainer. Scary. It's intimidating. This is an agreement. I'm doing work. I'm paying you. If I'm successful and doing my part. You're doing your work. You're hiring me. This is the agreement. Get the freaking word retainer out of your dictionary. When you're speaking with the claimant, it's scary. It it implies money up front. It implies blood sucking lawyer. It just does. Okay. Agreement. So, Mrs. Johnson, I just sent you our agreement. What I'm going to do right now is I'm going to stay in the phone, wait for you to sign it, so I can confirm for you that we received it. And now we can start working your case today. That's one call sign. That is the goal. Now, everything I'm telling you today, by the way, guys, it's gold standard stuff, right? Not everything I'm saying you're doing, but it should be the goal.

    Speaker 3 (00:16:05) - It should be what you're striving for. It's what your competition is likely doing. Okay. Retain that. Investigator. I talked about that rather than investigate, then retain. Shorten your agreement. Right. You should not have a 13 page agreement. Who reads a 13 page agreement, right? Make it 1 or 2 if you can, and then have them sign other documents after they become a client. Don't say I'm going to throw everything out there so that I'm protected. You're going to lose out on signing clients. That's what you're going to do. Keep your intake packet simple. Don't put a questionnaire in there. Right. The conversation that your intake team has when they sign decide to sign up a claimant, that's the questionnaire. Then after they become signed and they become a client, now you want to go have them fill out a five page questionnaire. That's fine. They're clients. They're willing to do it. But if I got two if I'm a claimant and I got two different law firms I'm thinking about and one gives me just a three page agreement and one gives me a 13 page agreement, a five page questionnaire.

    Speaker 3 (00:17:04) - I know who I'm choosing. I want to quick write speed. Speed matters. Okay, Smooth client transition. Now they become a client. The worst fear you should have now is which unfortunately we've all felt in the past is, Damn it, why do we lose that client that we signed? Because you can have a strong transition. You have to become a client text call, email, promotional material material. After they become a client, they should know who are they going to hear from next now that they become a client? When should they hear? How often is it? Once a week? Once a month? Once every few weeks when they hear via text or they hear via email will be a phone call? What do they have to do now? Give them some homework. Now you got to go to your doctors and you got to keep us updated. If the doctor says something new to you, right, give them homework. Make them feel like part of the agreement. Team Introduction. Here's who your attorney is.

    Speaker 3 (00:17:51) - Here's your legal team. Here's who the legal assistant is. Here's your paralegal. Manage the expectations. How long this should take, right? We all feel comfortable when our expectations are managed. I think one of the great failures of relationships is the lack of managing expectations. We have an opportunity here where we just retain them. Now we can tell them what to expect. Really important. And by the way, it won't result in them calling every single day what's going on in my case? Because you told them you should hear from us about once a month normally, but we'll call you otherwise if we have some updates for you. Oh, great. Avoid regret. Don't give them reasons to regret their decision. Hold your team account accountable. I'm going to sift through this really quick. I want to you need to know certain percentages in your firm. You know, your conversion rate of all the leads that qualified, how many retained. That really tells you how the front end of your business is doing.

    Speaker 3 (00:18:41) - I'll tell you right now, for an average PR law firm nationwide, it's around 70 to 75%. A strong law firm is close to 95. 98%. That firm I was telling you about before, 9400 cases per month in their state, they're at 98. 99%. Yes, they are. I promise you. Okay. You got to know your numbers. You got to know your lead response time. You have to know how many cases are retained, then rejected. It might have something to do with your criteria. You have to know how many abandoned calls you're getting so you can call them back. Retain the first call, sign up. Four seconds to go, guys. The clock is ticking. It's a competition. You can do this. Thank you very much.

    Speaker 2 (00:19:22) - Thanks for listening to the Maximum Lawyer podcast. Stay in contact with your host and to access more content, go to maximum lawyer.com. Have a great week and catch you next time.

    Join us at the Miami Mastermind!

    Are you struggling with perfectionism in your career? In this episode of the Maximum Lawyer Podcast, Jim and Tyson discuss the damaging effects of perfectionism on law firm owners.

    Perfectionism in the legal field can really hold people back in their career. It is a difficult hurdle to overcome because there are feelings of not being good enough. The constant need to be perfect can stop people from starting something new. It could be starting a new business venture, a new project or even a new relationship.

    The need to have everything go a specific way with no mistakes is something a lot of people struggle with and it can really hold people back from success.

    Many people get stuck in “prep mode” when having a goal to start something, due to perfectionism. For example, if someone wants to start a business in the social media field and spends months talking about the content they want to post or how they are going to market themselves, but have not taken any steps towards starting the business, no progress is ever made. Getting started is the most important thing when doing something new. So don’t fuss about the small stuff and get something on paper.

    When working towards something, it is important to think about this question: What did I accomplish today? Think about the small wins and celebrate that. At the end of the day, those small wins get you closer and closer to your goal. Worrying about every small detail and wanting to make it perfect will damage any chance you have in reaching your goal. 

    Jim and Tyson speak to creating pattern interrupts to help with perfectionism. Pattern interrupts involve incorporating new things in your routine as a way to move away from repetitiveness. If you do the same thing everyday, it can aid in your perfectionism. Try going for a walk in between meetings or taking a call on your front porch. It is something to break up that task and maybe trick your brain into implementing it again.

    Perfectionism is a tough quality to overcome. But, with small changes and the right actions, you can break the habit in your daily life and become content with letting things be how they are!

    Take a listen.

    Jim's Hack: Show gratitude to people who have helped you, especially on LinkedIn. It is a good tool to keep in your backpocket.

    Tyson's Tip: Try out a cold plunge as it has many benefits such as boosting energy.

    Episode Highlights:

    • 2:53 Jim and Tyson discuss how perfectionism holds law firm owners back.
    • 5:24 Jim and Tyson share their own struggles with perfectionism.
    • 13:20 Importance of celebrating small wins.
    • 14:32 The importance of taking action.
    • 16:15 The value of incorporating pattern interrupts into routines.


    🎥 Watch the full video on YouTube here..

      Resources:

      Transcripts: Perfectionism in Law Firm Owners: How to Break Free and Make Progress

      Jim Hacking:
      Welcome back to the Maximum Warrior Podcast. I'm Jim Hacking.

      Tyson:
      And I'm Tyson Mewtrix, what's up Jimbo!

      Jim Hacking:
      Oh Tyson, it's good to be back. We haven't recorded in a while. I just noticed that our episode with John Day was released and I was like, man, we just recorded that. So I know that means that we don't have many in the can. I know we have a full day of recording today so I'm excited to spend the day with you.

      Tyson:
      Yeah, it usually means one of two things, either it was bumped up, which sometimes we do, we bump them up, or we have very few in the can, which is, it sounds like that's where we are.

      Jim Hacking:
      Could be both, because it was a great episode, and it's summertime, so sometimes the bounty runs a little low.

      Tyson:
      That's very true, very true. What you up to these days? How you doing?

      Jim Hacking:
      Well, I'm looking at, so one of my YouTube subscribers sent me a bag of Dungeons and Dragon dice. I'm very excited about it. I can do the sound if you wanna hear it. And you might say to yourself, Jim, why do you have, why?

      Tyson:
      Yes, that's exactly what I want to know. Why do you have Dungeons and Dragons dice?

      Jim Hacking:
      I made a comment on the show, on my live show a couple weeks ago about how I really wish I had a 20-sided die because people call me up on the show and they have some cockamamie immigration plan that's really, really dumb. And I say to them, well, you have a 5% chance of this going really, really badly, or you have a 10% chance of this going really, really badly. So I wanted to have dice to represent to say, okay, let's play a game. you're gonna throw out a number, I'm gonna roll the dice, and if you hit, that means you're getting deported, or you're gonna be stuck outside the United States. And that scares the shit out of people. They're like, no man, don't throw that die, don't throw that, I don't wanna see that. So somebody just, they didn't identify who they were, but they said, here are the dice for you.

      Tyson:
      I like it. Well, you know what? Now we're going to do a little show and tell. So Stephen McClellan sent me this cool little thing. Check

      Jim Hacking:
      He's

      Tyson:
      this

      Jim Hacking:
      a good

      Tyson:
      out.

      Jim Hacking:
      dude.

      Tyson:
      So

      Jim Hacking:
      He's a good dude.

      Tyson:
      for those of you

      Jim Hacking:
      Oh

      Tyson:
      that can actually

      Jim Hacking:
      nice

      Tyson:
      see, this is a piece of the airplane of the Spirit of St. Louis. He's a pilot, I'm a pilot, and it's really cool. So there's a little description. For the wings, they used to use fabric. right, not aluminum. And so it's a piece of the fabric from the plane, which is pretty cool. So

      Jim Hacking:
      That's awesome.

      Tyson:
      yes, thank you, Steven. Really appreciate it. That's awesome. But all right, let's get, I wanna make sure we don't have time for our topic today because I think it's a good one. Do you wanna introduce the topic?

      Jim Hacking:
      Today I want to talk about perfectionism. And you know, as of the time of this recording, we have about 200 law firm owners in the Guild. Obviously we have thousands of other law firm owners in the big group and who listen to the podcast. And I have to say that one of the things that I see really holding people back is perfectionism. And I would define perfectionism as sort of an overarching. debilitating fear to get started because you're not going to be able to do it perfectly or Exactly right forever and I think it really is a hurdle for a lot of people and I thought it would make an interesting Topic for our show today

      Tyson:
      I think it's a beautiful topic and it's funny. Sometimes these topics, they track, actually I would say not sometimes, usually the topics track what's going on in our lives. And I think this is an interesting one because both of us, Jason Selk is coaching both of us right now. And perfectionism is one of those things that he talks about quite a bit because… That PCT is very, very bad. And I would agree with you. And it's, I would say that the perfectionism is many times the things that, that stops people from launching and launching, not just meaning the firm, but launching anything, any idea that they have, um, any, any special project, hiring people, starting their firm, you name it, they want everything to be lined up just right. And the reality is that that's not the right way of going about things. But it's a massive block, wouldn't you say? Like, would you say that's the number one block for people? I don't know if I would say number one, but would you?

      Jim Hacking:
      I'm a little biased because I'm a ten-quick start. So I sort of speed through those kinds of things, and so I might not be the most accurate judge of that. But yes, I think it's certainly one of the top three things that hold law firm owners back, that fear of getting started versus just jumping right in. And I'm glad that you mentioned that half the time the things that we talk about, or even more so, half the times we think of, we talk about issues on this show that are things that we've either struggled with or are currently struggling with. So I guess we should begin by talking about our own journeys with perfectionism. How has it manifested for you? And then I can share sort of what I've struggled with in my own weird way of perfectionism.

      Tyson:
      That's an interesting question. I didn't know you were going to ask me that, but I'm glad you did. I think the way that probably early on, the way it manifested the most is just probably beating myself up too much over things that I should have been really happy about. And instead, I picked on the small things. And that is one of those symptoms of that perfectionism where you'll do something really, really well. And let's just use… We'll go with the baseball season. Let's go with a baseball analogy. Let's say that you have an amazing game and you, let's say you were three for four, right? And you had, let's say a triple, a double and a single, like, oh, and, and you did great in the field, but on that one at bat, you struck out like at the end of the day, you focus and I will say, I was really bad about this whenever I was, when I played baseball growing up where I'd have an amazing game. and I would talk about that one thing that happened. And so I would say that that's probably where it manifested the most. And that's not just in baseball, but throughout my life, that's probably where it's manifested the most is when it comes to perfectionism. What about you?

      Jim Hacking:
      So for me, this isn't gonna surprise you, because you know how I run in streaks, and I'll have a great streak going, I'll be doing everything right the way that I wanna do it, and then I'll have one bad day, and then I'm like, fuck it, I wanna stop, I'm never gonna do that again, right? That's really how perfectionism holds me back, is that if I, the goal of perfectionism defeats the satisfaction. of getting the wins, the small wins. I mean, I remember when I read in Relentless Solution Focus where there was a hockey player who was struggling with drinking and Jason said to him, well, why don't you just drink one night a week? And I was like, one night a week? Well, that'll break his streak. Then that'll be bad. And so yeah, this is something that really I've struggled with and still struggle with.

      Tyson:
      Yeah, and it's funny about you. Like you'll be very passionate about something one way or the other. And I'll just, let's just wait a week. Let's just wait a week. We'll see what we'll see how Jim feel next week. And if Jim feels the same way in a week. All right. Well then, uh, then he's really committed to whatever that thing is. Um, but

      Jim Hacking:
      So

      Tyson:
      no,

      Jim Hacking:
      let's talk about,

      Tyson:
      yeah.

      Jim Hacking:
      oh, go ahead.

      Tyson:
      I know, but I was going to say you're right about it, but like, um, I think it's also important. that there are so many people that preach, there's always like one way. But what you just said is really important about, like there's no like one way, like you go in streaks, some people don't, like there's no one way. So we're gonna talk about it a little bit, but just because we're saying one thing doesn't mean it's the way.

      Jim Hacking:
      Well, let's talk about something much more fun than how we've struggled with perfectionism. That is how we see others struggling with perfectionism, because it's so much easier to talk about them over there versus us. But I mean, I was talking to a friend yesterday who wants to get into a consulting business and wants to start doing some social media. And you know, she wants it to be perfect. She wants it to be top notch. She wants it to be high quality. And those are all good things. Those are all good things unless six months later, you're still talking about that and haven't created some damn content. So I think that's the real test is that if you've thought about doing a change or doing something new and you're in prep mode for that for a really, really long time, you know, like the classic story of the law firm owner who can't announce their new firm venture unless they have. best logo that's ever been designed, right, or the best trade name for their law firm. So

      Tyson:
      Just such

      Jim Hacking:
      it,

      Tyson:
      a waste of time.

      Jim Hacking:
      yeah,

      Tyson:
      Such a waste of time.

      Jim Hacking:
      yeah. So it's just, it's, it's sort of not realizing what the most important thing is, which is just getting started. You know, a good example, you know, I have a, I have a YouTube live show with lots of people watching now, and I, I talk for an hour about immigration and If you go back and look at my old videos, they're just so boring and so, hi, I'm Jim. I'm an immigration lawyer. Today, let's talk about citizenship. I mean, it could be no more boring. So you've got to get started so that you can get better.

      Tyson:
      Yeah, and it's really about making that progress. And so if you kind of just step back and think about the way you should really view your day is, okay, did I make progress today? Did I move the ball forward? Okay, and if you did, you need to celebrate that. It's interesting. So we'll do these accountability calls in the guild and people will see the things that they're gonna do on Monday and then Friday, they'll come to the Friday call and they'll do all these amazing things, right? And then they'll be like, but I didn't get it all done. So I'll give myself a five out of 10. Well, like, hold on a second. Like, did you put in… a good amount of effort towards moving the ball forward. And like sometimes they'll put like five, six hours into the thing, whatever the thing is and they'll have made a bunch of progress, but then they'll beat themselves up because they didn't get it done. And the reality is, is you're not going to get things done every week and every single day. It's something that it takes time. Like some of these projects that we're doing as firm owners, they take several months, right? current project, it won't get done until the end of September probably. And if you really step back and the whole project is taken, it's really a two and a half year project that we've been working on. But it's something that we're working on regularly and it's bit by bit by bit and we're always making progress on it. But really, it just, it eats me up whenever I see these law firm owners, they're beating themselves up whenever they're making a ton of progress, but then they're just… they're just down on themselves because they didn't finish the thing, whatever the thing is. And that's just a really negative way of viewing things.

      Jim Hacking:
      I think another form of perfection is when law firm owners says to themselves, well, everything has to be perfect before I do this, especially hiring, right? Everything I have to have, all this money in the bank account before I do that. If you find yourself using language like that, like the stars have to align or I won't be able to take action. I mean, that to me is really where I see it manifesting itself a lot is that… Maybe it's a safety thing, maybe it's a fear thing, maybe it's I don't wanna go out on a limb, but I hate to tell you, part of running a law firm is the uncertainty of outcome. And if you are really, really being limited by that, then maybe you wanna have a job and not so much be running a law firm, because running a law firm is a risk entailing venture.

      Tyson:
      Yeah, another one of those is I got to have all the video equipment. I've got to have all the right video equipment before I start doing videos. And I've got to have all my scripts written. I've got to have all my topics. I've got to have all the best lighting. But in reality, Jim, what is your most valuable piece of video equipment?

      Jim Hacking:
      Probably this microphone and that camera.

      Tyson:
      Okay, not expensive, most valuable. What's the one you use the most often?

      Jim Hacking:
      Oh,

      Tyson:
      It's

      Jim Hacking:
      my phone.

      Tyson:
      your phone, that's right.

      Jim Hacking:
      Yeah.

      Tyson:
      It's your phone. Actually, right now I'm recording this episode, the camera is my phone camera. That's what I'm using, camo, that's what I'm using. And the video is amazing on it. And we overlook those things sometimes. I think a good lesson is to look for the simplicity. look for the simplicity in things as opposed to trying to make things so complicated. And if you can find that simplicity, it's going to really help you combat that perfectionism.

      Jim Hacking:
      you're listening to the Maximum Aware podcast. Our guest today is that MFer Perfection, and we're kicking MFer Perfection to the curb. Tyson, I wanna shift gears a little bit and talk about sort of how we break through perfectionism, sort of what are some tips that we can give to our listeners about how to move past perfectionism.

      Tyson:
      Um, yeah, uh, the, I would say the number one thing, I think maybe the number one thing is celebrating your wins is maybe the number one, even, even if they're small, just finding a win. Um, even if you say at the end of the day, oh my gosh, I didn't do anything to it. No, you did something. Like you did something. You, you, you did something to move the ball forward and celebrating those,

      Jim Hacking:
      Why

      Tyson:
      those things.

      Jim Hacking:
      is that important?

      Tyson:
      And It's going to change the way you view things quite a bit. And it's going to make you appreciate the small progress that you make on a regular basis. And it's going to allow you to realize how you're watching things progress. You're actually seeing things. If you're taking that self-assessment, you're watching in real time as the ball is moving forward, how you're making progress inch by inch by inch. on whatever that project is, whatever that thing is you're doing, you're actually able to stop in the middle of all the chaos of your life and say, oh my, you know what? I am actually making progress on that. And it's going to give you that boost of confidence that you really need because confidence is really the number one factor that you should be looking for is that confidence. If you can boost that confidence, everything else will sort of fall into place.

      Jim Hacking:
      For me, when I find myself slipping into perfectionist tendencies, one of the things that really helps is just to take some action. To do one little step, to do one thing. What can I do today or in the next 25 minutes or this hour? Not putting it off till tomorrow. Giving myself some wiggle room. I think sometimes I've really seen people, and I've gone through this myself, where you get sort of, I always view it as a box. inside of sand. Like you're in a, somebody has dug a box of sand in the sand for you and you're sort of trapped down in it and you gotta sort of start to wiggle free and you gotta sort of um, I think I've told you before about when my dad, we were canoeing down the Black River when I was a kid and my dad got caught in some quicksand and he started to sink and my dad was a man of quick action and hot temper and so he wanted to just sort of like go crazy and get out, but what he did was he just stopped moving and he found himself floating to the top. So I think about that when it comes to being stuck in that sand mass of perfectionism is that you've got to do something to just change it. Maybe it's go for a run or go to the spa or just do something to give yourself some freedom and some, a little bit of movement so that you can get out of that box and then move towards where you want to be.

      Tyson:
      You know, as much of a routine guy as I am, I love the idea of pattern interrupt where you've got your routine, but then you say, you know what? I'm changing things up today. I'm gonna stop doing this thing and I'm gonna go out and. Like you said, you'll go for a walk, go for a run. Maybe I might take this meeting outside and we're gonna go on a walk. That the whole pattern interrupt can be very, very valuable. I think that's a whole episode for another day, but

      Jim Hacking:
      It probably

      Tyson:
      I think

      Jim Hacking:
      is,

      Tyson:
      that that'd

      Jim Hacking:
      it probably

      Tyson:
      be

      Jim Hacking:
      is

      Tyson:
      good.

      Jim Hacking:
      because the very first thing my therapist had me do when I started seeing her years ago was to brush my teeth with my left hand. That was the very first thing, the very first homework assignment that I got was to brush my teeth with my left hand. And I think you're right. I mean, on Wednesdays, you know, I get up every morning at 420 to go to the gym to work out at 5. On Wednesdays, I really go out on the edge and I say, you can sleep as long as you want on Wednesdays and Sundays. Now nine times out of ten I get up somewhere between 4.30 and 5, but I have been known to sleep longer and I think you have to build in those pattern interrupts to try to break up that routine and that monotony.

      Tyson:
      As a quick timeout, what was the purpose of brushing your teeth with your left hand?

      Jim Hacking:
      Oh, I mean, first of all, it triggers different synapses in your brain. But I think more so it was just to see things from a different point of view. I mean, try it. Try it tomorrow. I mean, when you do it, you're just like, well, or you're left handed, aren't you?

      Tyson:
      I'm right here.

      Jim Hacking:
      Yeah. So try it with your left hand. Just see what just it just feels weird. It feels it feels a little different. And it was about she knew that, I mean, back then, I was in a lot of pain and a lot of discomfort and she knew that. She wanted to push those buttons to try to see what shifts could be made.

      Tyson:
      I actually, I can't wait to do this. You know what I mean? I'm, I'm into experimenting.

      Jim Hacking:
      You can do

      Tyson:
      So

      Jim Hacking:
      it in your

      Tyson:
      that's.

      Jim Hacking:
      you can do it in your ice freezer speaking of

      Tyson:
      Yes,

      Jim Hacking:
      pattern interrupts.

      Tyson:
      I'm going to get to

      Jim Hacking:
      Oh

      Tyson:
      my tip later. That's

      Jim Hacking:
      All right

      Tyson:
      going to be my tip of the week. So very good. All right, any final words on this, Jimbo?

      Jim Hacking:
      Well, as always, as always, be easy on yourself. Don't beat yourself up. You don't need to listen to this episode and say to yourself, God damn it, I am a perfectionist, and then use that to keep yourself from taking action. So as with all things, a little progress is good. Just do what you can. Try to move the needle a little bit. If you need help, reach out in the big group. join the guild, talk to us, reach out to Tyson and I. I mean, I was talking to a member yesterday who's struggling. It's not easy running a law firm. It's one of the hardest things you'll do besides raising kids. And I was thinking the other day, we could do an episode on how running a law firm is like raising kids. But in general, I just want you to be your best, to free yourself from whatever's. holding you back. That's why Tyson and I started this podcast in the first place. Why we started the Facebook group, why we started the guild so that people would have resources and a place to go that's optimistic, forward looking, wanting to improve, sort of drowning out the negative. And I really believe that with all the negativity that's going around, you need to surround yourself with people who don't. subscribed to that who don't give into that. The election cycle is heating back up again and I find myself getting drawn back to Twitter. And I just got to remember that stuff is just noise and it keeps you from, it keeps me and you from moving forward.

      Tyson:
      100% well said it's not Twitter anymore. It's X. X

      Jim Hacking:
      Oh yeah, you've

      Tyson:
      is

      Jim Hacking:
      been big

      Tyson:
      the

      Jim Hacking:
      on that,

      Tyson:
      new.

      Jim Hacking:
      yes.

      Tyson:
      Yeah, it's posts now It's not tweets. It's posts. But alright Jimbo. Let's wrap things up speaking of hanging out with Positive people if you want to join us in the big Facebook group join us there if you will and it's just If you're not in the Facebook group, you're listening to this, I think you're missing out on a ton of valuable content. If you want a more high-level conversation with more curated content, go to maxlawguild.com. We'd love to have you there. And if you get something from this podcast, we'd love for you to give us a five-star review and help us share the love. It helps spread the word to other law firm owners just like you. Jimmy, what's your hack of the week?

      Jim Hacking:
      In the last few weeks on LinkedIn and Facebook, I have seen people make posts where they sort of talk about things they're thankful for and they tag people that have sort of guided them. We received one of those this morning. Somebody left us a nice review and it wasn't somebody that we even know or that we've ever heard of. And Joey Vitali is really good at this about, you know, sort of these gratitude posts where you tag people. I think it could be annoying and overused, but I think it's a great way to get engagement and to sort of thank the people that have helped you. And I've written those posts. I think it's a good tool to keep in your toolbox. Again, don't abuse it, but I think it's something that can really sort of amplify the kinds of things we were just talking about on the episode, which is that positivity and the gratitude.

      Tyson:
      Yeah, I like that one. I think anytime you can thank someone for helping you get to where you are, I think that it's a very good thing. My tip of the week, you sort of hinted at it actually. So I've been wanting to do cold plunges for a while and it was funny. So Amy and I, we went out, I went to buy like one of those big tubs to do it in. And she was like, well, she's like, why are we doing this? Like, I've been watching all these videos online. where these people are taking chest freezers and doing it. I said, what? And I was a little resistant at first. She's like, yeah, she's like a lot of it. So we pulled up some videos and I saw some people how they're doing it. And so I put together a chest freezer cold plunge and it's really simple. You take, you have a water filter, you have a chest freezer that I got for 175 bucks on Facebook, cleaned it out. And then I got this ink bird that it's a little plug that goes into the wall. And then this temperature probe goes into the freezer and it, once it gets to the, to the optimal temperature that you set it at, you, it shuts off, right? So it shuts off the electricity to it. So it doesn't get any colder. Uh, and it's really cool. So, and the way the chest freezer is, is it, it will stay at that same temperature for days if you keep the lid closed. It's, it's incredible how long it will stay at that same temperature. So the amount of time that it's actually on, it's very, very minimal, but, um, I did it, I did it this morning. It's the feeling, I'm not even gonna list all the benefits that you get from doing a cold plunge, but you should just Google it. It's quite amazing. The high that you get from it, from the dopamine, it's a sustained high. It's not one of those things where it's like temporary. It actually lasts throughout the day. It's really, really cool. So I highly recommend it. If you thought about it, you don't have to do a deep freeze one, but it's the do a cold plunge if you've not done it before. Really recommend it.

      Jim Hacking:
      What temperature do you keep the water at?

      Tyson:
      So mine's at, I've got it down to, I started it in the high 50s. I'm now at 55 and it, 55 may not seem like it's like, to some people, whenever I heard the temperatures, like that doesn't sound very cold. When you're in it, it's freaking, it's freaking cold. So my goal is to get it down to 50 is my goal.

      Jim Hacking:
      And how long do you stay

      Tyson:
      About halfway

      Jim Hacking:
      in?

      Tyson:
      there.

      Jim Hacking:
      How long do you stay in?

      Tyson:
      See you again.

      Jim Hacking:
      How long do you stay in?

      Tyson:
      All right, so I'm up to three minutes. All right, I started at one minute and then now I'm up to three minutes. I think I'll probably end up getting to the point where I'll be done around 10 minutes, but the real point is where you should stop is where you start to shiver because if you start to shiver the benefits, you've now achieved all the benefits that you're going to get out of it. So it doesn't matter if it's 30 seconds or two minutes or whatever. when you start to shiver is whenever you should start to get out because then that's where the benefits start to… There's no more returns on your body and staying in there if you stay in longer than when you start shivering. So that's really when you should stop. Have you done one ever?

      Jim Hacking:
      Yeah, yeah, I've gone to those cryo places.

      Tyson:
      Okay, gotcha.

      Jim Hacking:
      And when I read the Jim Quick book, I did some cold showers for a while, but I sort of moved on from that.

      Tyson:
      Yeah, well, and with that, there is some research that says that a cold shower is going to give you just as much of a benefit as a cold plunge. So if you're wanting to just do cold showers, you can do it, but I can tell you, I've done cold showers, we did cold showers because of 75 hard, because the different phases we went through, I can tell you it's not even comparable. the energy you get from the cold plunge versus the cold shower a lot better. All right, man. Good talk to you. I'll talk to you more later.

      Jim Hacking:
      All right, buddy. See ya.

      Are you unsure if it is time to hire someone new for your business? In this podcast, Tyson discusses the timelines of adding a new face to the team as well as the financial aspects of hiring. He touches on the difference between capacity versus capabilities when hiring and how to make good hiring decisions.

      The difference between capacity and capability is crucial to knowing when it is time to bring somebody onboard. Capacity is about the numbers. How many people do you have currently and how many tasks are getting completed? Capability is about leveraging the right skills and innovation to grow your business. Focus on hiring someone who will be an asset and will give you the leverage needed to be a better company.

      For many the question is this: When do I know it is time to hire someone new? You need to look at overcapacity and if your team is overworked and staff are stretched too thin. Another important thing is if someone is “wearing too many hats'' and multitasking regularly. The last thing is opportunity cost, which for some might be losing out on clients because you don't have enough team members to take them on.

      It is one thing to know more people are needed on a team, but it is another thing to be able to afford it. It is important to know if a company is in the right spot financially to hire someone new. Considering if a person being hired will bring the company revenue is significant as well.

      Aside from the cost of hiring, culture fit is another consideration. Warren Buffett says to consider 3 things when hiring someone: integrity, intelligence and energy. Focus on these aspects of someone’s overall character and mindset to ensure they are going to succeed in a company.

      Use these tips to ensure you get the right people for the job!

      Take a listen.

      Episode Highlights:

      • 3:41 Discusses the signs of overcapacity 
      • 6:05 Discusses the cost of hiring 
      • 9:56 Discusses the importance of a streamlined onboarding process


      🎥 Watch the full video on YouTube here.

      Resources:

      Transcripts: From Capacity to Capability: Making the Call to Add a Seat on the Bus

      Speaker 1 (00:00:01) - Run your law firm the right way. The right way. This is the maximum lawyer podcast. Maximum lawyer podcast. Your hosts, Jim Hacking and Tyson Metrics. Let's partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.

      Speaker 2 (00:00:24) - Hey, it's Tyson. And today we have the exciting topic of how to know when it's time to add a seat on the bus. But before starting today, I want to tell you about something that Jim and I have put together that I think is pretty amazing. And I and I'd love to be able to share it with you. It's maximum lawyer and minimum time. It's a roadmap to creating the firm of your dreams. This is something that we give to all guild members when they join the Guild. But if you text stage 1 to 3 145019260, you're going to get stage one completely free. It's a course. You're going to get stage one of the course. You'll get it completely free. There's no strings attached. I think this is something that you're really going to benefit from, so I hope you'll take advantage of it.

      Speaker 2 (00:01:13) - But just text stage 1 to 3 145019260 and we will send it to you. All right. Let's get to it today. So today's conversation is all about understanding the pivot from mere capacity in your firm to harnessing your firm's capability. What we're talking about is capacity versus capability. It's about recognizing your firm when that firm is ready to elevate to its next stage by adding a fresh face to the team. So that is what we are talking about. It's that capacity versus capability. And there is a huge difference between these two words. Capacity is typically about numbers. The number of people you have, the number of tasks that are getting completed capability. On the other hand, what we're talking about, this is something that dives deeper. It's about leveraging the right skills, leveraging the intelligence, leveraging the innovation that you have to grow your firm. There's a great quote that I like on this from Steve Jobs, and it really does highlight this perfectly. He says, It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and then tell them what to do.

      Speaker 2 (00:02:27) - We hire smart people so they can tell us what to do. I like this because it gets to the essence of what I'm talking about. You need to change your mindset on hiring. It's about leverage. Stop focusing on what the employee is going to cost you. This is this is a common mistake that we see on a regular basis where people just view an employee as a cost. Instead, let's let's focus on the employee as as one an asset to the firm. But this asset is going to give you leverage. All right. Stop thinking of them as just a cost to the firm, a drain to the firm. That's not what they are. They are there to add value and give you that leverage and focusing on the wrong things. As we we talk about quite a bit, this is going to lead us down the wrong path and we don't want that. Obviously, you want to to be focusing on the right things. All right. So how can you discern that golden moment when adding a new member becomes imperative? Because and I think that's I think that's the common struggle that people have is actually what do you look for? And I'd say that there's three major areas that I look at when deciding whether or not we need to hire someone.

      Speaker 2 (00:03:41) - And really, overcapacity is the first thing I look at. So if you're if you're current team as it currently exist, is consistently stretching beyond their capacity, then this is a very, very big probably the number one telltale sign that you need to add more seats on the bus. So look for that. Look for that overcapacity where you're starting to stretch your team to thin the other one. And that one I obviously that one's seems probably a little obvious, but it's not always obvious to all people. The number the number two thing that I look for is, is that multitasking mania that you probably put a lot of people through. If you have a few employees that are wearing too many hats and maybe it's more than a few, maybe it's many of your employees that are wearing too many hats. One, I think it's important to identify the fact that effectiveness will start to dwindle when you do that quite a bit, actually. But this is another sign that if you've got, I'd say at least two people that are wearing multiple hats or doing too many things, especially if you have, let's say you have a paralegal and you have a receptionist, the receptionist leaves and now you have your paralegal doing some bookkeeping, answering the phone as well, and also doing the paralegal activities.

      Speaker 2 (00:04:58) - That's an obvious situation, but maybe it's not so obvious where same employee where you've got the receptionist, you got the paralegal, but you do have them do doing your bookkeeping activities. And the phone is ringing so much that they're also playing. Receptionist. You've got them wearing too many hats and you've got to start to look at maybe thinking, okay, I need to start hiring more people. And this gets more and more difficult as you become begin to scale because you you start to become more disconnected. Connected from your employees. Just it's natural because you've got so many people. So you need to find a way to check in with your employees to figure out all the things that they're doing. Another thing to look at is opportunity cost, and this is probably one that's overlooked the most. Are there great opportunities out there or that you're that you're turning down or clients that you're turning down or losing? This is a key part of it, or you're losing due to your bandwidth. Are you are you getting fired a lot on cases or are firms choosing not to hire you because maybe you're not devoting enough tension to the front end, the conversion, the intake process? So this is another telltale sign on top of that.

      Speaker 2 (00:06:05) - So those are the big three that I want to talk about. But I do think it's important that it's there's other considerations that we need to take into consideration. We need to think about when it comes to hiring. One of the first ones is really the financial part of things. And you definitely need to recognize the need for for new employees. But I think you also need to be financially shrewd about this as well. I think that's really, really important. You don't want to don't want to overextend yourself because the I think the last study that I saw, the average cost to hire someone stands just over $4,000. And that's that's just the hiring cost. That's not that's not the actual salary of the person. That's solely the hiring cost. So putting a button, a seat just over 4000 bucks and it takes roughly 42 days to fill that position. Our firm is I've talked about our hiring process before and maybe I'll talk about it in another podcast. But our hiring process is is actually longer than that.

      Speaker 2 (00:07:04) - We have a pretty long hiring process and it's intentional, but it I'll get to I'm not going to get into the details of why that is in this podcast. That's not what this is about, but it is a it's time consuming is the point, right? It can take some time. So you also have to contrast this, though. That's where, you know, I told you not to focus on the cost. So this is where I get to the part where it's the butt part of this. You need to contrast that with the potential revenue upswing. So think about the full financial picture. Okay, you've got the cost part of it, but think about the financial upswing and where the where you're going to start to get those revenue gains back. Once you've done that, this is where that full financial picture comes into view. So make sure you're looking at the full picture, not one part of it. Another big part of this is, is hire is hiring for your vision. The the hires that you bring in, the team members that you bring in, they need to mirror the aspirations and the ethos of your firm.

      Speaker 2 (00:08:01) - Every seat on the bus must serve the journey's end goal. All right. That's a very big, big part of this. Don't forget that in the hiring process, you need to make sure you incorporate that. A part of that is firm culture. All right. Warren Buffett says in looking for people to hire, look for three qualities integrity, intelligence and energy. I do agree with that. But I'm going to talk about in a second what we what we do. But if you don't find the first, he says, the other two will kill you. And I agree. So if you if you lose the integrity part of it, if you find someone that's not does not have integrity, then the other two will obviously kill you. But we stole a page. What we look for is and we stole it from Jack Jack Welch's playbook and we call our people peeps for a reason. The last P doesn't stand for anything, but we call it people peeps. And we look for passion, energy, the ability to energize others, edge and execution.

      Speaker 2 (00:08:55) - And I'm not going to go into the detail about each of these. I'll do that in another episode. But the emphasis here is on focusing on culture. The next thing is efficient onboarding. You need to have a streamlined and hearty welcome for your people. Okay? It's going to help you ensure that longevity. It's going to help you with additional things like getting people onboarded quickly, but it's going to help with that longevity. New hires are 69% more likely to stick around for three years or more if you have a good onboarding process. So it's it's a it is a very valuable investment for you to invest on the front end. And I was lucky enough to have been given that advice early on to focus on being able to onboard and have a process in place. It's really, really important. It's also going to give you a massive competitive advantage over your competitors because you're going to be able to onboard faster than others. And I was talking about earlier about we've got an extended a pretty long hiring process.

      Speaker 2 (00:09:56) - That's intentional. Okay. So I'm not talking about that. Ours ours is a very efficient process, but it's intentionally long. Again, I'll talk about it in another another episode. But really, here is your actionable piece of advice. Here's your your main takeaway and hopefully this is one you're going to take with you so you can make quick decisions on hiring. But I want you to start a bi monthly employee needs assessment. You can do it bi monthly or quarterly, whichever one you want, but let's call it an employee needs assessment. And I really want you to write down all of the unattended tasks that that are piling up. Assess all of the work burdens that you're running into. Look for all of those lost opportunities. And if you start to see these things pile up, that is a key indication. That's a really easy way to determine whether or not it might be time to to open up a new seat on your bus or to create a new seat on your bus. All right. Let's close things up here.

      Speaker 2 (00:10:49) - Let's if you don't mind, make sure you subscribe to our podcast if you've not to this point. But I just want to remind you to check out our Saturday episodes. The next one we're going to go over is breaking the email addiction, embracing scheduled checking for mental clarity. Until then, remember, imperfect action will always eclipse perfect. And action. Take care.

      Speaker 1 (00:11:15) - Thanks for listening to the Maximum Lawyer podcast. Podcast. Stay in contact with your hosts and to access more content content. Go to maximum lawyer.com. Have a great week and catch you next time.

      Do you want to know how to grow a company to include the best people possible? In this episode, Adela Zepcan, the Director of People and Culture at a law firm, shares her insights on running a law firm effectively.

      Living in a post-COVID world, many companies are struggling with employee retention and high turnover. This has been due to people quitting their jobs to pursue their passions or people leaving for opportunities for more remote work.

      Working in HR means you are selling your culture and company to prospective employees. You are bringing everything to the table including the company’s values, missions and what they can offer someone. It is important to use your resources to find candidates whether it be using your connections or investing in trusted job sites.

      It is important to create a cheat sheet when going through the process. Keep interview questions clear and to the point to get the best possible answers and make sure the questions match the job descriptions. When you are in the process of hiring, you need to ensure it is quick as many candidates don’t wait and will grab the first option they are given.

      During the onboarding process, get your team members involved to assist in giving new employees the best experience. Make sure details like assets and accounts are set up in time and training or manuals are ready to go. If these aspects of onboarding are not prioritized, new employees can feel that companies don't value them or their time. 

      An employee stays with a company for an average of 2.8 years. When someone is leaving, it is crucial employees leave on a good note. Make sure to thank them for their time with the company, celebrate their accomplishments and wish them well on their new venture.

      Ultimately, HR is all about people. It is all about how to attract, retain and grow your company.

      Take a listen!

      Episode Highlights:

      • 2:18 The importance of tailoring job descriptions and investing in the right job posting platforms
      • 4:22 Tips on pre-screening resumes and conducting phone screenings to identify top candidates
      • 8:23 Don't miss out on good candidates
      • 9:10 When reviewing resumes, consider candidates who may not have direct experience but have relevant skills or experiences. Ask behavioral questions that relate to the job
      • 16:02 Tips on how to end an employee's service on a positive note, including thanking them, distributing work, and removing their presence from systems


      🎥 Watch the full video on YouTube here.

        Resources:

        Transcripts: The HR Process with Adela Zepcan

        Speaker 1 (00:00:00) - In today's episode, we're sharing a presentation from Max Lakhan 2022. Keep listening to hear Adela Zipkin as we share her talk the HR process. You can also head to the maximum Lawyer YouTube channel to watch the full video. Let's get to it.

        Speaker 2 (00:00:14) - Run your law firm the right way. The right way. This is the maximum lawyer. Podcast. Lawyer, podcast. Your hosts, Jim Hacking and Tyson Metrics. Let's partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.

        Speaker 3 (00:00:38) - All right. So today I'm going to tackle a and kind of how we have navigated our system. And thank you so much for the great introduction. So again, my name is Adela, and so my title is director of People and Culture. And what that essentially means, it's the glorified HR lady, right? And so I am going to show you, I think, a perfect system to run a law firm and kind of grow at an exponential rate. Right? We are on track for the third year in a row to triple our size, and that comes with its challenges, of course.

        Speaker 3 (00:01:14) - But making sure that you are prepared for those challenges with the growth in mind and to be prepared to tackle this is it's going to be very important whether you are in the HR profession or you are just an attorney running a law firm, right? Because as small businesses or law firms, startups, we are expected to do everything right from start to finish without any mistakes. And hopefully I can show you kind of tricks and tips that we developed at our firm. So it's I kind of categorized it in four categories. It's not proper HR lingo. I will give you that. So I think of it as four categories my pre onboarding, onboarding, as well as the kind of employee life as well as onboarding, because onboarding is just as important as onboarding. So I will of course tackle the first one and that is how to fine train and keep your talent, especially in this current climate we're in, right? The great resignation Covid hitting us left and right, people wanting and needing to work remote. We have to kind of stay on top of it.

        Speaker 3 (00:02:18) - And what I've realized in the last couple of years or in the past five years since I've been doing this is h.r. Is a sales role and you as running a law firm, being the manager, running the operations, whatever the case is, you are responsible in selling your company, you're responsible in selling your culture. So essentially I hunt for candidates just like you look for clients, I hunt or I sell my culture. I sell my companies values, our core values, our mission, my team. Just like you would pitch your services to your potential clients once you have that deciding factor, I think it's very, very important to recognize that distinction because when you're interviewing someone for a position, you have to make sure to sell and smile. And if you're not smiling, you're not doing a good job at interviewing this person. Right? So here's the kind of overall onboarding structure, right? You know, the job description, the resume, sifting, the interviews, screenings. I mean, I've heard companies where they do like five, six hour sessions of interviews.

        Speaker 3 (00:03:27) - ET cetera. And that is not a good experience. And you wouldn't want your clients to go through that. So why would you want your employees or potential employees to go through that? So I created a cheat sheet. So this is my cheat sheet. So one of the big things you're going to have to do within the job description is tailor it to the big picture. It is not a to do list. It should never be a to do list of the job. It is the overall like what are the key components that this person needs to tackle? For me to be able to, you know, pass on the mantle of this position, make sure that where you're posting, you're getting your money's worth. A lot of times you're not going to get a lot of return on your investment when you post on these job sites. So if you have a niche, the one that works best for you and you get the best candidates, invest more money in that one than the other ones, right? So ours, for example, is indeed for our international and US hires indeed is the best platform.

        Speaker 3 (00:04:22) - Our second best is LinkedIn. And really, honestly, it's word of mouth of employees. A lot of times I find great candidates from part time to full time gigs for our office just by reaching out to my current employees and saying, Hey, do you have anyone in mind that would do this job? And it helps. So as far as the pre screening, when you're reviewing the resume, I want you to think about like what are the key components that this person needs to do in this position and where does it resonate from experience versus knowledge? Like, am I hiring someone that is a five year experienced HR person or am I hiring someone that just graduated and I can't expect the person that just graduated to have five years of experience because they just graduated, right? So that's how you want to tailor that pre screening when you're reviewing and sifting through those resumes. But also keep in mind that sometimes people are really terrible at writing resumes, so you might miss out on really good applicants if they don't use the proper language or terminology.

        Speaker 3 (00:05:22) - Now, what I find is the phone screening that we do pre after they pass the resumes, the phone screening tends to be eye opening and we developed a little script for it, which is on the next slide and I'll show you it. And that has been very, very helpful to. A sieve through your top candidates. And if I find that I'm not getting a lot of return from my indeed post, for example, and I got maybe five maybes in a in one Yes. That I'm kind of like I will pick a couple of those maybes and interview them as well. Right? Because my perception will always be biased because I'm going to look for the perfect candidate. And frankly, we're not all perfect, right? So we can't how can we expect someone that is just filling out a resume to be perfectly writing all the terminologies that you're looking for, Right. And then the secondary piece or like the last kind of interview that we do is phone screen or it's usually either in person if we can make it or a virtual video conference with either one of the owners, the manager, depending on what position I'm hiring for.

        Speaker 3 (00:06:25) - Right. Try not to make it crowded. Don't make it lengthy. Smile. Tell your team to smile. That is interviewing. Prep them before they join this meeting and so they don't ask questions like So what you've been doing in the last five years, right? It's on my resume. Read it. So making sure that your team that is interviewing is, you know, eloquent, prepared, knows the little backstory is very, very helpful and is selling your culture to them at the same time. Right. Because it is a sales pitch and we need to be very clear about that. Then don't scare them. Right? Sometimes you get serious and passionate when you're talking about things and that can be very intimidating. I am at an interview and you're essentially yelling at me, right? In a sense. Right. It's intimidating. And that is the first experience that that person is going to see of your firm. So all smiles. Even if we're talking about a serious subject and a passionate subject, we got to stop, smile and be kind, right? And if you have a clear idea of who is the candidate.

        Speaker 3 (00:07:29) - Right, like everyone on board that interviewed this candidate loved them. So the next step is hire them fast because they're not going to wait for you. They're going to move on to the next company, especially in this kind of climate we're in right now. This is a sample of my little cheat sheet or checklist that I go through when I interview candidates. And the reason I created it, not because I only asked these five, six questions every time, this is my go to point. If I'm having an off day and I'm not on my A-game, I can ask at least ask these five questions within the mindset of like, what am I looking for? Like, what is my immigration like? Are they invested in my company? Can I tell that they're invested in my company based on the questions they're answering? Right. The question tell me a little bit about yourself is gold Absolute gold, because it will let me know how well does this person interview? And it will also let me know how prepared they are for this interview.

        Speaker 3 (00:08:23) - And sometimes people are just clicking right. It's it's easy to click on indeed and apply for a position if you have all your information already filled out. So sometimes people are doing that, but you want to try to engage, right? Just just as pushy as we can be when we try to sell something, we want to be as pushy when we're trying to obtain candidates. So if someone doesn't show up on their scheduled interview, I call them and say, Hey, it looks like you missed your interview. Would you like me to reschedule? Let's reschedule it for this time. Does that work for you? I am pushy because if I know that is a good candidate, I do not want to miss out. I don't know if we're going to have time to cover this, but essentially, I created this little script, right? So when you hopefully most of you guys have an assistant or a paralegal or a law clerk or, I don't know, front desk receptionist, whatever the case may be.

        Speaker 3 (00:09:10) - And when you're looking for that position, you want them to do everything from answering the phones to all your necessities and needs. The job description assistant is very vague and in most cases it's all encompassing. A lot of things get thrown at an assistant position, so when I find myself reviewing resumes, I might pick a candidate who don't necessarily have assistant experience, even though my job post will say I need two years of experience y I'm going to review their history. If they volunteered somewhere, if they've worked on a big school project or, you know, the question that I tend to ask applicants is tell me a little bit about something that you've done that is not on your resume that might benefit you in this position. You'd be surprised how many candidates will tell me great examples of fitting in the category that they're playing for. So try to be inclusive. I tried to ask my six go to questions and I have like a cheat sheet of like 200 plus questions that I tend to use. But I depending on the position, you have to make sure that you're asking questions that correlate to the job and examples of behavioral examples, specifically of the job.

        Speaker 3 (00:10:20) - So for example, if I'm going to do sales, tell me an example where you had to sell something. How do you go about selling it? I remember when I used to work at Oh, it used to be a shoe store. I think I was like 16. In the interview, the person handed me a shoe and said. Sell me the shoe. And that was my whole interview. I had to sell this person as a 16 year old a shoe. And I got that gig. And it was it was a great experience because it makes you think on your feet. So pushing behavioral questions to team members or potential applicants is going to be key. And then if it's a yes, do the basic stuff right? Background check, reference check, send the job offer, be human, called them and offer the job. Don't send them an email. It is impersonal and it does not set a good experience. And then of course, explain the onboarding process when you're offering the job to them.

        Speaker 3 (00:11:14) - When I kind of set up this job offer, I'm already planning two weeks ahead of their first two weeks, right? I'm involving all the necessary team members that need to be playing a role in training this person up. And then if it's a no, notify the client or candidate that it is a no. Right. But pro tip, if you have a second runner up, say there was one team member that said, I didn't like this question, therefore I don't want this person, but I really like this other person. And so you pick your you pick the team member that interview the best, obviously. But if you have a second runner up, tell that person it's no for now. But if I have an opening, I'm going to reach out. I've gotten a lot of good candidates in the past couple of years by reaching out to my old interviews. So you've got to keep those lines of communication open. And then, of course, onboarding. When you're onboarding the team member, develop those two weeks, prepare them, create an agenda, create trainings, involve the rest of the team members, and of course, encourage, encourage and encourage communication.

        Speaker 3 (00:12:16) - The first 90 days are going to be eye opening and, you know, culture shock because they have to learn a whole new company's lingo. ET cetera. Right. So you want to be on top of your game because the first 90 days they're going to be open and okay to ask those questions. After 90 days, they're not going to ask you what is X, Y and Z mean and how do I apply it to my job? And then it's going to bite you in the butt later on because we didn't onboard them properly. Right. So encourage communication. No question is a stupid question is always my go to. I also have a 30, 60, 90 developed in which we cover our core values. The get at one have capacity where we just analyze whether this person gets the job, actually wants the job and has the mental and physical capacity to do the job. And then we analyze their current initiatives like the last 30 days, essentially things we're going to work on the next 30 days and things we can tweak that they have already had exposure to.

        Speaker 3 (00:13:12) - And then the best piece is the questions and concerns piece because it allows the candidate an open platform to or in this case, it's an employee to kind of tell us how the onboarding process is going. Have we sold them or have we overpromise something when we originally onboarded them? And I find that my sales pitch is usually on point and people say, Yep, it was exactly how you sold it to me in Dallas. So it works. And of course we're not done. Focus on the employee life. On average, an employee will stay with a company. This is a stat from like 2020, I think. So it's a little outdated and I'm sure it's dropped now since the great resignation. But it's 2.8 years is the average lifespan of an employee nowadays. So you want to make sure that you are kind of preparing for the future. So planning your engagement for the year, making sure that you're doing a quarterly pulse for the team members, your team check ins. I try to do a monthly check in with every single team member.

        Speaker 3 (00:14:14) - We have managers do biweekly check ins. We do a yearly self-evaluation and of course we try to grow from within. So if I find that I have a job opening and one of my team members, I can train them up to be in this position, they might not. I'm going to get to keep that person a little longer since I've already invested 2.5 years with them. Right. And let me tell you, it costs a lot to replace so the next kind of thing, I used visuals and of course, I shared the PowerPoint with you guys in the app. So you definitely can look at these. But this is kind of how we do the biweekly check ins with the managers. And then another thing that we kind of do on the side two, and it's going to kind of go over this little picture, but this is like the unscheduled drop bys check ins, right, where you're just like passing by their office saying, Hey, how's it going? And you want to kind of fill out the employee, make sure that they're not too stressed.

        Speaker 3 (00:15:06) - And if they have something that is heavy to, you know, like a big project that they're working on, that you can get them enough support to not feel overwhelmed. And then last but not least, don't forget, off boarding, try to make a checklist and stick to the checklist. Don't forget the off wording. It's key. Okay. And what happens when people off board or when a team member leaves, it becomes really sad and people get emotional and sometimes it feels like a betrayal. Right? You're leaving my company. I just invested so much time and. Money in you. And but we have to look at it in a positive and we also have to sell it to the rest of the team. Right. Someone is leaving to tackle on a better, you know, better rate of pay that I can't necessarily afford. Or maybe they're leaving to go finish law school a lot of times. One of the biggest reasons my team members leave is they're going back to law school or getting their doctorates or masters and X, Y and Z, and that is good.

        Speaker 3 (00:16:02) - So that means once they finish school, they're going to come back to me, right? If I ended nicely, right. If we ended platonically and had a really nice parting, we celebrated their success and we celebrated the the work they did for us. So definitely making sure that you're thanking them for the service, making sure that you have a game plan for all the work that needs to be now distributed while you hire their replacement. Make sure that you remove their physical and virtual blueprint. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to see like someone's name pop on one of our programs that has been gone a year or longer. And then people are like, Well, who's that and why do you have such a high turnover rate? It's not high. It's just we haven't updated the system. So you want to make sure that the new people are present on the necessary applications and that the the rest of the former team is no longer visible, I guess. And then, of course, do the exit interview and try to analyze that exit interview with leadership to see what what we could have done better.

        Speaker 3 (00:17:02) - And that's pretty much it.

        Speaker 2 (00:17:06) - Thanks for listening to the Maximum Lawyer podcast podcast. Stay in contact with your hosts and to access more content content. Go to maximum lawyer.com. Have a great week and catch you next time.

        Join us at the Miami Mastermind!

        Are you trying to improve processes within your company? In this episode, Jim and Tyson interview Melanie Leonard, an attorney and expert in legal practice management software. She is also one of the first certified consultants in Clio. They discuss the adoption of technology among lawyers, in which Melanie gives lawyers a low grade.

        Many law firms are behind the times and don't have a well thought out process that will serve law firms well. Melanie speaks to how creating workflows will lead to more efficiency and productivity in a firm. Workflows are simply just steps that people use to accomplish a task. But, not having one or not having a defined one can lead to many challenges.

        Many companies do not have defined workflows because no one naturally thinks in systems. No one is going to add something that is obvious to a workflow. But, every step needs to be documented to ensure nothing is missed and the process is the same for everyone. When creating a workflow, don't assume people know the common sense of it. Add as much detail in there so whether someone is new to the company or a veteran, they will be able to accomplish the task.

        In a law firm setting, it is best to create workflows for routine parts of the job like client intake or billing. They can even be applied to legal work that seems unique or that changes from case to case. Melanie says that creating workflows for things like filing a complaint or a motion can connect together to ultimately create a system.

        Many lawyers truly underestimate how workflows can help them in their practice. Because many lawyers use the same process for different tasks, it makes way more sense to focus on creating that system. The truth is no one wants to recreate the wheel.

        Take a listen if you want to use workflows to elevate your firm!

        Jim's Hack: For those who want to create more content, listen to Gary Vaynerchuk to get more inspired on distributing and repurposing content.

        Melanie’s Tip: Open up whatever project management software you are using and find the workflow feature to document steps in the process of a project. This feature allows for people to be alerted to when it is their turn to work on the next step.

        Tyson's Tip: Make sure you get your quarterly meeting scheduled to talk about planning for 2024.

        Episode Highlights:

        • 2:25 The overall adoption of technology by lawyers and gives a grade to their progress
        • 8:31 Workflows! and the significance of having clear and documented procedures in law firms
        • 10:58 The process of building workflows, starting with cover letters and tracking everything in the packet, and the importance of taking an organized approach
        • 21:26 Advice on starting with workflows for the intake and sales process, followed by billing, and then focusing on substantive legal work
        • 29:25 Advice to use the workflow feature in practice management software to document processes and alert team members about their tasks


        🎥 Watch the full video on YouTube here.

        Connect with Melanie:

        Resources:

        Transcripts: Boost Efficiency in Your Law Firm with Workflows with Melanie Leonard

        Jim Hacking:
        Welcome back to the Maximum Lawyer podcast. I'm Jim Hacking.

        Tyson:
        And I'm Tyson Mutrix. What's up, Jimmy?

        Jim Hacking:
        Who said, I'm longer? I think you did.

        Tyson:
        I think I did. I was about to laugh because we were just kind of chuckling with Melanie before and I hadn't shaken off the laughs yet. So I felt like I was about to get a case of the giggles to be honest with you.

        Jim Hacking:
        We're really excited to have her. Why don't you go ahead and introduce our guest.

        Tyson:
        Of course, you're going to make me do the bio too. So all right, I'll be happy to do so. Melanie Leonard, she is absolutely amazing. We've had her on before and she's been in the maximum lawyer hemisphere for a while, but she is an attorney, an entrepreneur, and one of the leading authorities on the use of legal practice management software. An early adopter of Clio in her own practice, Melanie developed a passion for helping law firms achieve amazing results. in their own use of practice management software and soon became one of the first Clio certified consultants. In 2018, Melody sold her law practice to pursue her passion full-time and Streamlined.Legal was born. So Streamlined.Legal, amazing company. In just five years, Streamlined.Legal has become one of the most sought after consulting firms in the legal tech industry. Partner-led excellence award in 2019 2020 2021 and 2022. Oh, that's it. Huh, Melanie so she is I will say like we've gotten to Melanie on several occasions has been a great supporter of maximum lawyer So if you do need anything when it comes to systems processes give your will give Melanie an opportunity in the show to say how she can be reached but if you do need to reach her for something you should Definitely do it. Melanie, welcome to the show.

        Melanie Leonard:
        Thank you guys, I am so happy to be here. I'm Melanie.

        Jim Hacking:
        We're so happy that, yeah, you are, you are. And you said, I'm the longest.

        Tyson:
        Well done. That was well done. That's

        Melanie Leonard:
        Thank

        Tyson:
        nice

        Melanie Leonard:
        you. Thank

        Tyson:
        touch.

        Melanie Leonard:
        you.

        Jim Hacking:
        Here's my first question. We're recording this in early August, 2023. And as you look over the landscape of the lawyers that you come in contact with, the lawyers that you find out and about, how do you think lawyers as a class are doing at adopting technology to make their lives easier? Like on a grade scale, like from school, what grade would you give lawyers overall?

        Melanie Leonard:
        Ooh, I'm gonna go with like a C if we're talking about the nation in general. I think that your group here, the Maximum Lawyer group, people that are involved in the Maximum Lawyer are scoring far higher than that just because they have a tendency to want to hear about these things and work on these things and do these things. But if we're talking about the nation as a whole, I'm gonna grade it pretty low. I mean, it's not that long ago that I got out of law school I went into a practice and interviewed, you know, for one of my first jobs at a law school, they didn't even have computers. I mean, I'm not that old guys. Like, I mean, so I really just think that, especially if we're spending time like in these Facebook groups, you guys have an awesome supportive group here and there's others out there as well. You know, these are the people that are asking about this stuff and talking about this stuff and that's awesome, but it kind of gives us a skewed vision of what's out in the world in general, right? And so, yeah, I'm gonna have to go with a pretty low score in general, but for your group, I'd say it's more like a B plus.

        Tyson:
        Nice, very good. Maxwell members do have, they've got a higher IQ overall too, I heard.

        Melanie Leonard:
        That too.

        Tyson:
        Yes, for sure. So I want to ask you about something. We're going to talk about workflows and things like that, but I'm just so curious. So chat GPT, it was rolled out late last year. How many people flooded to you? We've got to incorporate AI in our business. What was that like?

        Melanie Leonard:
        You know, that's been very cool. I just think that there's a lot of shiny new object syndrome with it still, right? Like everybody wants to use it, which is cool. I think they should. But I think that a lot of people, just like a lot of tools in general, they're kind of jumping the gun, right? Like they dive into whatever the easiest or simplest or easiest to figure out thing is, which is great, that can benefit them, but then they're not necessarily taking a step back to look at like… how should I be doing this or should I be doing this or when should I be doing this? I feel like in our excitement, sometimes we skip over the whole building a process or a procedure that's gonna really serve us and we just kind of dive into the fun part, which is fine. I mean, it's not to say that can't help you. It's just if we wanna come up with a more encompassing, holistic approach of how we're gonna use ChatGPT in our firms, then we're probably gonna get a lot more benefit by doing that kind of approach instead of just. jumping into the fun stuff. Now, that being said, I mean, yeah, we use ChapGPT for emails and marketing and all kinds of fun stuff. So it's been a lot of fun.

        Jim Hacking:
        Melanie just spoke at our Guild Mastermind in Austin on sort of automation and the Zapathon 2, we called it. And whenever I think about Melanie, I think about how she saved our bacon at the first Zapathon. Now, let me just set the scene. So Kelsey and I, Kelsey Bratcher and I, worked really hard to put this presentation together. And the plan was for the lawyers, the law firm owners there to sort of. figure out how to use Zapier automation, these kinds of things in their practice and sort of really focusing on how to get software to play nicely together, how to work with the APIs and all that stuff. Tyson is already far ahead of me on this stuff and he was doing a lot of stuff internally in Zoho, but we had this Zapathon out in Phoenix and we had probably 30 law firm owners there and we were in a big U shape and Kelsey started talking. about 45 minutes in, it was just very, very obvious to all in attendance that he was talking way over the head of a lot of people. And we had to literally scrap our entire agenda on the fly. And we got down to brass tacks and we're working on building out this software for people from a really basic place. And Melanie saved the day because we needed people besides Tyson and I, because Tyson and I rolled up our sleeves and we're helping people. But I'll just always remember two things, Elise just holding forth and talking about, she was just very verbal about the pain she was going through trying to get the software to work. And Melanie was bouncing from fighting around like a wonderful bird, just saving our butt, going around and helping people with their very basic question.

        Melanie Leonard:
        You know what? It was a blast. I'm so glad we had that experience. I actually I've never told you this, but I was kind of on the fence about going just because I mean, I wasn't looking to do that much in my own practice, you know, my own business. But I thought what a great network opportunity, all that kind of stuff. So I was really glad to have that experience. And Elise and I had already met prior to that. And so we had a bit of a rapport going there and that worked out well. And then, of course, all the new friends that we were able to. meet and help along the way. And so it was a great experience, as was the last one, frankly, too. Obviously, having been at both the first and second, you could tell the huge difference, obviously. And I thought that the approach that you guys took in the second one was obviously, having learned so much from that first one and every event in between, obviously, was a great, great experience. So yeah, if you have the opportunity to catch the next ZAP-a-thon, I'd highly recommend it.

        Tyson:
        To this day, it's probably the most talked about event we've had. And that's why we brought back Zapathon too, because Zapathon, it was so funny because Jim's right, we were huddled over in a corner, like, what are we doing? We took a break and we're like, okay, the whole agenda for the two days was gone, like done. So it was cool. A lot of cool things happened at that event. But let's talk about workflows though. So let's say that you have a passion about workflows quite a bit. So what does workflows mean to you? And then where should people start to go about starting to build their workflows? Like where's the starting point?

        Melanie Leonard:
        That's a great question. So when I talk about workflows, really, I'm talking about any type of set of steps or written procedure or ideas in your head, which just basically follow first, we do this, then we do that, then this person does that. So it doesn't have to be anything formal. It doesn't have to be documented. Like by default, when we go to our firms and we file a new complaint or start a new matter or do whatever we're doing. we have some default workflows we're going by, right? Like we know in the back of our head what we want to happen, even if we haven't told anybody or if we haven't written it down anywhere. So the first thing is to recognize the idea that these things are already happening in your firm. Maybe you don't know all of them. Maybe you have a team that's helping you with them. Maybe they've created their own workflows in this vacuum of not having any workflows, you know, but. By default, there's something there that's guiding you guys or leading you as to how you're gonna work or what direction you're gonna go in. And that's great. But what gets tricky is if we're not all on the same page about what these workflows contain, what steps they have, when they're supposed to be done, who's supposed to be doing them, that's when we get into a lot of struggle, right? That's when the challenges come up. Like, did this person do that? Or did I do that? Or when am I supposed to do that? Or how's this supposed to happen? Like those are the kind of things that I think All too often we jump to the, you know, we want to help our clients, right? We want to get stuff done. And so we don't always take the step back to figure out how we're going to do it as a group. And we just kind of dive in and hope people figure it out or help them with this part that we think about, or we don't think about that part or we leave that part out. Um, so it can be a real challenge if we're not all on the same page with those workflows. And so that's why I feel like it's super ultra important, but as far as where to start, Tyson. I think just recognizing that you have some default workflows you're already doing, you just may not recognize them as such. And if you take the time to just think about it a bit, there may be a way that you can find like, Oh, okay, well, we maybe we did document that. I mean, we have this checklist, right? The checklist is a great place to start. Here's some steps that we take. Or you know what, I know that we wrote out some instructions when that paralegal started six months ago, like maybe that's a great place to start. So chances are you do have something somewhere that you can start from, and you don't necessarily have to just imagine the case from the start all from scratch.

        Tyson:
        AGM, you're on mute.

        Jim Hacking:
        Those are some great points, Melanie. You know, when we first started building out our workflows, we started with our cover letters, like our cover letters encompassed everything that we put in there. And we said, okay, well, how do we get the cover letter to track everything that's in the packet and then putting the packet together? So you're right. I mean, a lot of this stuff is stuff you're already doing. It's just not written down. So that's great. So you'll be really proud of us. We are, we are building out Salesforce and we've spent six weeks designing it. Like we haven't actually touched the software. It's just been six weeks.

        Melanie Leonard:
        Nice.

        Jim Hacking:
        of getting all of our processes and getting everything out about how it's currently done. And so we really had a problem because we had like duplicate custom fields and we had data all over the place. And so taking an organized approach, it's very foreign to me. I've been running this firm for 15 years or 16 years and I'm a 10 quick start. So to spend that time without having built anything in a way, but in another way, having built everything, it's just great.

        Melanie Leonard:
        I agree and congrats to you because like you said, this doesn't come naturally to everybody, right? It's not like you just think in systems. Now there are people that think in systems and that's one thing, but for most people, this is not like a natural way of looking at life or your business. And so I think that, you know, actually forcing yourself so to speak, or recognizing that this is an important step. I think is critical and yeah, congrats to you for doing that because I think it's only going to make your build that much easier. You know, and that's the thing. People come and they're like so frustrated with software. They're so frustrated with build out of software and all this kind of stuff. But I always look back at well, did you know what you were trying to build first? Right? Like, did you just dive in and start building without knowing exactly what you wanted to build? That's always going to make it harder. Right? So I think that's gonna be an awesome step for you guys. And I would imagine it's gonna make your build go that much faster, frankly.

        Tyson:
        So, Melody, Kashif, he's our CTO, he and I have been working on over the last few months and then we're planning on a new rollout by the end of September where we've gone through a lot of our processes and we started just removing things, like just gutting a lot of the stuff that we had in there because what we're realizing is we've really been overworking files is what we've been doing. Are they great looking files? Absolutely. But are they all necessary? No. So I wonder how much you see things like that and then what you might recommend people do to prevent that from happening.

        Melanie Leonard:
        Yeah, that's a great point. I think that I do see that. I think it's more common though to see the opposite, right? I more often see workflows that have steps left out, right? Because again, if we're talking about someone who thinking in a system or thinking in a workflow doesn't come naturally to them, they may leave out very often things that just seem obvious to them. Well, of course I'm going to email the client, right? Or of course I'm going to send them this. Well, okay, that's good that it's in your brain, but we need to get that out onto the paper or wherever we're documenting this. So more often I see steps missing. And to solve that issue, I usually tell people, work in a team, right? If there's three of you in the room, chances are one of you is gonna think of something, right? That maybe the other two forgot or something like that. So if you can bring this kind of process of building these workflows to your team, I think you're going to be a lot more successful and a lot faster, right? Because they made no steps that you're not even paying attention to because you're worrying about other things, right? So that can be a real great benefit. Now on the flip side, if we find that, you know, we've got just all these steps that are just, you know, taking all this time and energy and really what for? I think a great way to start with that is like, let's look at all the steps we have, just like you described, Tyson. Let's look at all the steps we have. and figure out why we're doing them, right? And if there's a really awesome reason, right? I'm sending copies of this to my clients so that they stay informed and they don't call my office 100 times wondering what's going on and someone has to call them back and review the file and give them an update, right? Like if there's a good reason for doing it, well then yeah, we're gonna keep it in there. But if we come across the idea that we just did it because I don't know, out of habit or because we're used to doing it or something like that. That's in my book. That's never a good enough reason. Like I know a lot of times I'll go into firms and I'll say, Oh, tell me why you're doing it this way or what made you do it this way. And they'll say, Oh, well, I mean, that's just the way I was taught or, you know, that's just the way we've always done it. And I'm like, okay, well that's good. Um, but why, you know, and if again, if there's a good why, then let's keep doing it that way, but if we've lost touch with the Y or maybe the Y doesn't even exist anymore, um, you know, that. For me, that's not a good enough reason. We should come up with some better reason or just ditch it altogether because obviously it's wasting time and energy. I remember I was working with a firm down in Atlanta and they had this issue where they were paying overtime to one of their admin team members to be filing this paperwork back into the paper files. And they were spending all this time and money and the person didn't really want to, like it wasn't a highlight of their job, right? So no one was really happy about this. And so we started going through the, okay, why are we doing it this way? Why are we doing this? And at the end of about 30 minutes, the conversation got around to, why do we have these paper files? Like, is anybody looking at this paper that you're spending all this time and money filing? And it turned out no one was looking at it. Like it just was there. And I'm like, okay, well then I guess we don't need paper files anymore, right? So, but that's those kinds of things that you don't necessarily figure out if you're just kind of going with the flow all the time. Right? I love to reevaluate our workflows on a regular cadence, whether it's once a quarter, once a year, whatever, because things change. And if we're not always reevaluating those or looking at those, we may not catch that change in our workflows.

        Jim Hacking:
        There's a great scene in Walter Isaacson's biography of Steve Jobs where Steve Jobs is there with some Apple developers and they're behind one of those two-way or one-way glasses and they're watching somebody like use a mouse and try to clicking around and like all the developers are standing around Jobs yelling at the glass to the people like no you click there you click there and they're like it's so obvious it's so obvious and Jobs is like dude if they can't figure it out then it's by definition not obvious and I bring that up because when you were talking about workflows and everybody not necessarily knowing things, one of the things I hear around here a lot is, well, that's so obvious, or that's just common sense.

        Melanie Leonard:
        Yep.

        Jim Hacking:
        So what do you say to the people that say, and I think it's, how do you draw that line between not just micromanaging, but putting every effing detail into the workflow versus keeping it loose enough so that things don't get bottlenecked? It's a hard line.

        Melanie Leonard:
        Yeah, I agree. There's no like perfect place or perfect way to do that. Um, but I think that there are some guidelines I look at. Um, so first of all, I don't assume anything is um, common sense or everybody should know that or anything like that, because I think that kind of just shows our own biases, right? Like, yeah, it's common sense to me, but here's my experience in life, right? But it's not common sense to the person I'm about to hire necessarily. So, I lean towards putting more in there, but I do understand in a situation where, you've just got volumes and volumes of detail, how that can become a bit overwhelming, right? The first thing I say is we like to break it out into like discrete tasks, right? That we can put into our practice management software. And what I think that does is that, People become used to, okay, this is what this task looks like. I've read it a hundred times. I know what it means. I know what I'm supposed to do. They don't necessarily have to read it every time, right? But you recognize it as, Oh, this is that task. Okay, I'm going to go do it and check it off. But for the people that are new or the people that maybe don't have that level of familiarity, they're going to look at it and love that level of detail, right? Like that's going to be like gold to them because now they don't have to guess at what we were expecting or what we needed to have done. So I think that there is a great value to having that level of detail, but I'll tell you I've had firms where they'll actually develop two different types of two workflows, right? It's the same workflow, but they'll have the detail listed on this copy for, you know, the newer people or the people just coming in or whatever. And then they'll have like the stripped down version of, uh, for the more experienced or, you know, more people that have been there longer. And I think that can be helpful too, because I agree, you don't want to get bogged down the detail. But on the other hand, you don't necessarily have to reference the detail every time, right? Depending on your software and how it's set up and all that, if you can make it such that, you know, it's recognizable, they can reference it and move on, then I don't think the details necessarily getting in the way. I will say, if you guys haven't read that book, The Checklist Manifesto,

        Tyson:
        Great.

        Melanie Leonard:
        great

        Tyson:
        Yeah.

        Melanie Leonard:
        book. Yeah. He talks a lot about, you know, what… whether or not you need a level of detail, right? Now I will say, I think there's a difference between a checklist as he refers to them and a workflow as I refer to them. And a lot of that is that level of detail, right? If I'm in the operating room, and he uses that example a lot, if he's in the operating room as a doctor, and you just need to make sure that this patient doesn't get infected, then yeah, I'm gonna quick something I can reference and move on with my surgery, right? But I mean, if I'm in a law firm and I want to make sure that level of detail does get attained, those margins are correct in the document or those, you know, font is appropriate or else it's going to get kicked back from the clerk's office. Then yeah, maybe I do want that level of detail in there. So I agree, Jim, there's no perfect answer or where you start or stop. But I do think that I would talk with my team so that any level of detail I put in there, they're not taking it as a personal like, I don't think you know what you're doing. It's more of a, this is a great resource. If you don't need the resource, you don't need the resource, but it's there for people that need it.

        Tyson:
        So I don't know if you've read this yet, Melanie, but A World Without Email by Cal Newport.

        Melanie Leonard:
        I haven't yet.

        Tyson:
        You've got to read it. It's absolutely amazing. And you take Checklist Manifesto, put it right on top of A World Without Email, and you have a great starter pack for any law firm.

        Melanie Leonard:
        Awesome.

        Tyson:
        But you should check it out. But with that, I'm going to give you a scenario. So let's say you've got a brand new law firm, starting from absolute scratch. Money's no factor. What what's actually I'm not gonna ask you the software question What what workflows should they start building out from the very beginning? So and you don't give me all of them But what are some of them?

        Melanie Leonard:
        Yeah, and let's be clear that this is of course an imaginary world because in the real world, we actually have to run the business while we build it essentially.

        Tyson:
        Absolutely. Yep.

        Melanie Leonard:
        So

        Tyson:
        This is imaginary.

        Melanie Leonard:
        that's the real world. But in our imaginary world, I am a fan of looking at what are the things that we're going to do most often, right? So for most law firms, talking to potential clients… is a pretty high volume kind of thing because not every potential client is going to actually hire you, right? So you're going to actually have to interact with more potential clients that are actually going to hire you. So I think that whole intake sales process is a great place to start just because I think it's something that can be systematized workflow oriented, is very workflow oriented. So I think that's a nice place to start. But then after that, one of my favorite Oh, okay. I'm going to throw in billing here because of course we have to make sure that money's coming in or else we've defeated the whole purpose of having the business. Okay. So after the billing, one of my favorite places is looking at that substantive work. I feel like a lot of attorneys underestimate the ability of a workflow within their legal work to be effective. Right. So a lot of attorneys think, oh, well, you know, If I'm not doing immigration or estate planning where it's very linear and I'm doing the exact same thing every time, right? Well, Jim will tell you it's not the exact same thing every time, but if I'm not taking the same steps every time, I do litigation, right? And litigation, you can't put it in a workflow because there's just too many options, right? What if the judge does this? What if this gets thrown out? What if the party's subtle? What if, what if, what if? I would beg to argue that the ability of… the workflow to adjust to a what if situation is very strong. So I can make a workflow for filing my complaint. I can make a separate workflow for filing my motion. I can make a separate workflow for responding to the motion. And then I can use those workflows as they come into the case. So I may never get to the trial workflow. That's fine. We settled. I have a settlement workflow that I can use. So I feel like sometimes we think of our actual legal work as so specific and so, you know, unique to each case that it doesn't work well in a workflow. And I absolutely disagree with that. I think just by virtue of the fact that we have rules of civil procedure, you know, that's, that's a workflow in and of itself. Like there are rules I have to follow in timelines. I have to meet within litigation that I can build into a workflow. Right. So I really think that, um, While some of those more administrative like the intake and the billing are super, super important, I'm going to start with what I do the most of. And what I do the most of is probably that petition or that motion or something like that and probably less likely of a trial. Right? How often am I going to trial? Not that often. I'm going to build that workflow last. Right.

        Jim Hacking:
        Lawyers that think that what they do is an art, I think are the ones that are having the biggest amount of headaches. Those that do what you just said. I mean, to me, it was a huge game changer for me when Kelsey and I built out a chat bot because I realized this shit is all just if this, then that. That's all that this is. Like, and that's how the computers are gonna replace a lot of what we do because it's if this, then that. And if you spend enough time. work flowing out enough of the stuff and you have the capacity to connect it all together, then you have a lawyer, then you have a law firm, then you have a practice.

        Melanie Leonard:
        Yeah, I think, have you read Mike Whelan's book, A Lawyer Forward?

        Jim Hacking:
        I read the first half of it.

        Melanie Leonard:
        Okay, so he talks a lot in that book about the difference between, I can't remember what he calls it, maybe like the specialist and the practitioner or something like that. But basically the idea is that there are lawyers that are really, really focused on and appreciate and enjoy the, you know, the researching the new legal issue and the, you know, really diving into the really intricacies and, you know, uniqueness of a different field in a different case every time. And I think that there's a lot to be said for, you know, the new case law that comes out of that kind of thing and that kind of stuff. But if I'm trying to run a business, I think that's a very difficult proposition because I think you have to structure your business and price your business so differently in that type of esoteric, you know, research kind of base practice, then more. I don't know, a more, I want to say like, um, I don't know, just a practice where we're actually helping a larger volume of real people. Right. Um, and not to say that the, those types of practitioners are not helping real people, but it's just a different type of practice. And so I feel like though, even with those research, more research-based practices, you still have things that you do to get to the research of that problem, right? You still have to engage your client in some way. you still have to help them solve their problem in some way. So I think that while there are different types of practices, I agree with you, Jim. I think a vast majority of them are underestimating the ability of the workflow to make your legal practice easier, whether it's the research or the filing or the drafting or whatever it is. All of that can be made easier by these workflows, if for no other reason than just to buy you more time to do it, right? because if you're looking at everything as recreating the wheel, then it's gonna take you a lot longer and I hope you're pricing your services that way.

        Tyson:
        That's great advice. All right, Melanie, this has been great. I would love to be able to talk for another 30 minutes, but we're about at time. So I do want to start to wrap things up. Before I do, I want to give you an opportunity for you to let people know if they want to work with you in Streamline Legal, how do they get in touch with you?

        Melanie Leonard:
        Absolutely, we are very prominent in social media, but our website is found at streamlined.legal, and we're on Facebook, we're on YouTube, we love putting out videos that help you with your practice in the areas of workflows and practice management and document automation and all kinds of great features that your practice management software probably has that you may not be using. So feel free to look for those videos as well.

        Tyson:
        Love it. All right. Before we get to our tips and hacks of the week, I do want to remind everyone to join us in the big Facebook group. Just search Max Malheur on Facebook, find us there. And if you want a more high level conversation, go to maxlawguild.com. Join us for just absolutely great people and great events. Our quarterly masterminds are a huge hit. And in addition to our other things we do like the Zapathon 2 that we did in Austin, which Melanie was a huge part of. So thank you so much for that Melanie. giving us a five-star review while you're listening to the rest of these episodes. This episode we would greatly appreciate it. Jimmy, what is your hack of the week?

        Jim Hacking:
        When I started the firm in 2007 or shortly thereafter, I didn't know much about marketing. And I read two books that had a great big impact on me. One was Tribes by Seth Godin, and the other was Crush It by Gary Vaynerchuk. I have been listening to a lot more Gary Vaynerchuk lately, and it's a constant reminder that we're not creating enough content. And if you just wanna get motivated to do some more content, listen to a couple episodes of Gary Vee. It'll get your mind right. It'll get you thinking about. content that you can create, how to distribute it, how to repurpose it. And in my mind, Gary is very optimistic and encouraging. And I think that you'll find that they'll get you off the schneid if you have been slacking on content.

        Tyson:
        It's interesting, I've not heard you talk about Gary Vee in a while and I've not seen Gary Vee on any social media recently, but I also have not been consuming as much recently. So I don't know what that says about my viewing habits, but it's interesting. I had not thought about Gary Vee in a long time. I bet I've not seen him in three months, which is just wild to think about. But anyways, Melanie, what is your tip or hack of the week?

        Melanie Leonard:
        So my hack is that I want you to open up whatever practice management software you are currently using And I want you to find the workflow feature that's in there because I really think that as you begin to think through these processes That's a great place to document these things and to benefit from them by having your team You know alerted to when it's their turn to do a particular step in the process If you're using Clio, they're going to be Clio task lists is what they're called. If you're using my case, there's a workflow feature in there as well. They've all got them. It's just a question of what they're calling them.

        Tyson:
        It's great advice. I know you're always an advocate of using the software you have, so that's a good one. My tip, so by the time that this episode comes out, we're going to be either in September or nearing September, which means that Q4 is rapidly approaching. And so my tip is to make sure that you get your quarterly meeting scheduled because… Planning for 2024, believe it or not, is right around the corner. So you need to start getting ready for that. So get your Q4 quarterly meeting scheduled. And also if you do a separate annual meeting, get that scheduled as well because now is the time to do it because things start to get busy. And then next thing you know, if you don't do it now, it won't happen. So make sure you get those scheduled now. Melanie, thank you so much for your support of the show, your support of Maxim Lawyer, and just coming on here and sharing just wonderful advice.

        Melanie Leonard:
        Thank you guys,

        Tyson:
        We appreciate

        Melanie Leonard:
        it's my pleasure.

        Tyson:
        it.

        Jim Hacking:
        Thanks, Melanie.

        Tyson:
        Thanks, Melanie. See you later. Appreciate it.

        Melanie Leonard:
        Bye.

        Tyson:
        He always jumps so…

        In this episode of the Maximum Lawyer Podcast, host Tyson Mutrux explores the powerful influence of personal networks on goal setting and achievement. 

        Drawing on scientific studies and personal anecdotes, Tyson emphasizes the impact that our connections have on our behavior, habits, and overall success. 

        He encourages listeners to intentionally curate their inner circle, surrounding themselves with supportive and inspiring individuals. Tyson provides practical steps for evaluating and refining personal networks, including conducting a "five person audit." 

        Take a listen!

        Episode Highlights:

        • 00:25 The influence of personal connections on behavior, habits, and goal attainment, citing scientific studies and examples
        • 06:34 The importance of evaluating and removing relationships that hinder progress and prevent achievement
        • 08:44 Intentionally surrounding oneself with supportive and inspiring individuals for personal and professional growth


        🎥 Watch the full video on YouTube here.

        Resources:

        Transcripts: Cultivating Success: The Influence of Your Inner Circle on Goal Attainment

        Speaker 1 (00:00:01) - Run your law firm the right way. The right way. This is the maximum lawyer. Podcast. Lawyer, podcast. Your hosts, Jim Hacking and Tyson Metrics. Let's partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.

        Speaker 2 (00:00:25) - Hey there. It's Tyson. And today I have what I think is a pretty exciting topic, which is the profound role that our personal network plays in our goal setting and goal achievement. Before I do get started with that, though, for those of you that have been following me on social media, you know, I've kind of gotten into this cold plunge craze. And if this is something that you'd want me to cover on the Saturday show, I'd love for you to let me know about it. If you if you do want me to cover it, I'm happy to do so. If you do, just shoot me a text and I will be happy to. I'll talk about how I got started in it, my setup, how I use a chest freezer for my cold plunges.

        Speaker 2 (00:01:06) - It's actually a pretty cool setup. If you want me to cover it, just text me (314) 501-9260. If it makes it easier for you, just shoot me a text with the word plunge and I'll know exactly what you mean. Just shoot me a text. I'd love to hear from you. All right. So this morning I was talking to my personal trainer, Scott Shooty. He also has this pretty excellent podcast. It's called Becoming the Ultimate Coach with the Jock and the Doc. He's his partner as a as a doctor. And they talk about a lot of cool things when it comes to fitness and coaching. But we were talking about how a mutual friend of ours is starting yet another business venture, and this is a guy that's already had a lot of success, very, very successful. And it really got me thinking about all of the great connections in my life and how much better it's made me. From Ryan McKean to Jason Selke to John Fisher, you name it. These have been amazing relationships for me and they've been instrumental to my growth as as both a person and as a lawyer.

        Speaker 2 (00:02:15) - And I'd even say as a father, these roles, these people that have been in my life, I owe all the credit to when it comes to my growth, because without their wisdom, I definitely would not be where I am today. And if you've I'm sure that many of you have heard the quote from Jim Rohn, you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. This isn't just a catchphrase, even though I think that some people, they try to they like to use it as a catchphrase. It's not really a catchphrase. There's some science to this. There's a paper that's in the Journal of Social and Clinical Psychology, and they show that people who associate themselves with with others, they have the others have a significant influence on our behavior. They affect our habits, our mindset, our goal attainment. There's also a 2016 study from Harvard that shows that if a close friend becomes obese, this is really interesting to me. Your risk of obesity increases by 57%, which is insane.

        Speaker 2 (00:03:19) - And that's just one example of how that how our habits, they closely mirror those that are around us. That's why I mentioned the people I mentioned before. Many of my activities, they really patterned the people that I hang out with. You can even look at history. A brief history just recently. If you look at groups that thrived due to this collective ambition, just look at Silicon Valley. It's a prime example. You've got a hub where innovative minds have thrived in clusters. You can look at a Stanford Business Review paper where they indicated that these collaborations, these environments, they could increase your personal your individual output by up to 30%. And I think this is why you've seen a lot of success with business incubators around the country where you've seen a lot of growth in these companies because they've got they've gotten these companies together and these collective companies have taken taken massive steps in growth when it comes to their businesses, their individual businesses. Now, you know, a positive circle, it's going to propel you forward.

        Speaker 2 (00:04:24) - But just like that, a negative one can pull you backwards. If you look at the study out of the University of Memphis, they show that a 40% decrease in achievement can happen. When you you're around individuals that have that are negative influences on you, especially close acquaintances to you. Those can have the the greatest impact on you. So what we want to do is we want to focus on creating that inner circle. And the reason why is because this inner circle, it will boost your goals. It's going to boost everything around you, not only your goals, but your daily activities. But it needs to be intentional. That is an important part of this. Your actions have to be intentional. They have to be all your interactions with them have to be fairly strategic. So, you know, what does this mean? Well, this means that having coffee with people that are what Jason would call. A center of influence. You want to attend conferences where you know there's going to be successful people there.

        Speaker 2 (00:05:29) - You are going to want to join groups that have goals that are aligned with your own goals. This is essential. You're going to want to network, but you're going to want to network with a clear intent. You're not going to network just for the sake of networking. You're not going to meet with people just for the sake of meeting with people. You are going to meet with people with intention. Some of you know that I. I like to garden a little bit. We actually didn't do a garden this year, but we normally do. But and just as a gardener, they prune away dead limbs and branches that allow a plant to thrive. That's a big part of it. We kind of sometimes have to do the same thing. We've got to call our inner circle to foster our personal growth. That's an unfortunate part of life, but it does happen sometimes. We had to get rid of some of the negative influences. So while building a supportive network, it's absolutely essential. Essential. It's it's equally it's equally vital to evaluate and remove some of these relationships that can hinder the progress that we want that can even inflict harm.

        Speaker 2 (00:06:34) - I think many of you know what I'm talking about. And these could be relationships that are steeped in negativity. These could be employees as well. There may be complacency, there may be jealousy. These are all qualities that that can permeate throughout you, your own mindset and throughout your organization. So holding on to these ties can really weigh you down and they can prevent that achievement that you're looking for both both personally and professionally. So by regularly assessing and refining your social circles, you're really making room for people that are more aligned with for you, with your goals and their more uplifting relationships that help you ensure that that you're in an environment that consistently nurtures your aspirations. And I know that that may seem a little bit selfish, I get that. But it's about personal growth. And I would say that the people that have that negative influence on you are usually the selfish ones, not necessarily you, but how do we implement this, right? These are these episodes are for actionable takeaways. How do we how do we implement this? Well, I want you to carry out what I would call a five person audit list out the five people you spend the most most of your time with, and next to each name, I want you to write down the positives or negative traits about these people and how they have an impact on you.

        Speaker 2 (00:07:53) - And I want you to really reflect on this list. And if you find any patterns that don't really align with your goals or your values, it may be time to make some changes. All right. I'm not. Maybe not. Maybe. Maybe the people that you surround yourself with are great, and that's perfect. I love that. But maybe not. But next, I want you to list the five people you would like to associate with and that are that are not in the five you just listed. And once you have this list, you can begin sort of finding out what circles they hang out in, what Facebook groups they're in, what conferences maybe they go to, and you can start to coordinate your networking activities according to that. But remember, you have to be strategic about this. And LinkedIn would be a really good tool to to find out this information. You can do a lot of research on social media, but you're going to want to actively seek out these individuals whose traits they mirror the aspirations you have.

        Speaker 2 (00:08:44) - And I want to be clear about this. This is not about discarding friends, but about it's really about intentionally allocating more time to those who they uplift you, They challenge you and they inspire you. Those are the sort of relationships that that you're really looking for. And I kind of think about the words of Tony Robbins, who said, the quality of your life is the quality of your relationships. And that's such a deeply true quote because it really emphasizes the importance of surrounding yourself with the right people and the profound impact they can have on your life. You really have to curate your inner circle. You know, curating your inner circle isn't merely about comfort. It's it's a calculated stride towards success. It's really easy to to have a group of people that make you comfortable. But does that really get you to where you need to be? All right. I don't want to go too much further than this. I think you get it. Let's wrap things up. I do want to remind everyone to stay tuned for our next episode where I'm going to be discussing when it's time to add a seat on the bus.

        Speaker 2 (00:09:58) - So basically, when it's time to hire or create that new role for a new hire. Until then, I want to remind everyone that imperfect action always beats perfect in action. Take care.

        Speaker 1 (00:10:14) - Thanks for listening to the Maximum Lawyer podcast. Podcast. Stay in contact with your hosts and to access more content content. Go to maximum lawyer.com. Have a great week and catch you next time.

        In this episode of the Maximum Lawyer Podcast, guest speaker Brett Trembly shares valuable insights on time management and productivity for lawyers. He introduces the OI90 formula, a three-step business system consisting of office hours, an issue matrix, and a 90-minute weekly team meeting. 

        Brett shares the importance of protecting one's time and focusing on high-value tasks. He suggests implementing office hours for both team members and clients to minimize interruptions. 

        Additionally, he suggests using software tools to streamline operations. Brett's practical tips and strategies provide actionable steps for lawyers to improve efficiency and success in their practices.

        Episode Highlights:

        • 00:40 Introducing the OI90 formula and how it has been life-changing 
        • 3:00 The challenges of running a one-man show
        • 8:43 The importance of spending time on high-value tasks
        • 12:15 A three-step business system that includes office hours, issue matrix, and 90-minute weekly team meetings
        • 15:58 Setting office hours to minimize interruptions and increase productivity
        • 17:08 Determining when interruptions are allowed based on specific criteria
        • 18:01 Running productive 90-minute weekly meetings to address issues and push the business forward


        🎥 Watch the full video on YouTube here.

        Connect with Brett:

        Resources:

        Transcripts: The OI90 Formula: A Massive Time Hack for Lawyers with Brett Trembly

        Speaker 1 (00:00:00) - In today's episode, we're sharing a presentation from Max Lakhan 2022. Keep listening to hear Brett Trembley as we share his talk. The I-90 Formula a massive time hack for lawyers. You can also head to the maximum Lawyer YouTube channel to watch the full video. Let's get to it.

        Speaker 2 (00:00:16) - Run your law firm the right way. The right way. This is the maximum lawyer. Podcast. Lawyer, podcast. Your hosts, Jim Hacking and Tyson Tricks. Let's partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.

        Speaker 3 (00:00:40) - So I'm just really glad to be here today. I would be remiss if I didn't think Jim and Tyson for having me and Becca for everything she does for this conference, the I-90 formula. Very excited to talk about this today. It has been life changing business, changing everything for me as as I've started to implement these things only a year and a half ago. I wish it had been a lot sooner. So it says three easy to implement tactics to eliminate work interruption. A massive and I am not exaggerating here a massive time hack for lawyers time hack.

        Speaker 3 (00:01:12) - Why do we use hack? Everybody likes the word hack. It's going to save you so much time, which I hope you get that takeaway from this. So there we are already was introduced get staffed up and trembly law, which I'll weave in a little bit about, is sort of my journey. So why the why is always first Simon Sinek says start with why. Why do we want to save time? I think we can pretty much agree that being overwhelmed and really stressed sucks, right? Like that's that's not something anyone's going to argue with anyone like being stressed and having no time to spend with their family. Okay. I don't see any hands, but that's what happens a lot, a lot of us lawyers out of necessity when we start, but then just out of maybe not knowing what we didn't know or not taking the right action, we end up running a hot dog stand on the corner where the entire business is us. And if we're not there serving those hot dogs, then business isn't happening.

        Speaker 3 (00:02:04) - There's no money coming in. You go on vacation. And it's even more stressful because. Because where's your next client going to come from? Your business essentially shuts down. And that was my story. I started Trembley Law in 2011, three years out of law school. I thought it was awesome. My first month got some new clients and friends brought in like ten grand and I thought I was rolling in the dough right That very first month, second month, about half that. My third month in business. January of 2012, I brought in $0 and the stress really kicked in. What am I doing? How am I going to solve this? You know, I just thought I would you know, I think I'm a good lawyer. Everybody thinks you're a good lawyer. I think I know what I'm doing right. I've been a high achiever. Let me just go and kick some butt. And it was two years of just getting in my own way, doing everything myself and all the hats. I was the hot dog stand on the corner.

        Speaker 3 (00:03:00) - If I showed up and I worked hard, sometimes I could bring in the business. I hit a ceiling of about $9,000 a month. I just couldn't get over that and I couldn't figure out why. And it was really frustrating. So essentially, you don't lack time. You lack focus, thoughtfulness or clarity and not thoughtfulness. Like you're on thoughtful, but you don't take the time, as Glenn was talking about the mindfulness, to be more thoughtful about what you're doing or you lack clarity or you're just too busy to be less busy as we often say, you, I don't have time for this. I don't have time for that. I don't have time to hire. I don't have time to train. I don't have time to do more. And what it is, is a lack of focus not on your business, because I think we're all here because we work hard and we want more. But on specific tasks within your business that are going to push you to the next level. So in 2014, I finally hired someone double my law firm revenue the next month and I'll give myself credit.

        Speaker 3 (00:04:01) - At this point I just rinse, repeat. And I started moving the needle and spending my time on areas that we're going to push my law firm forward. So the five entrepreneurial stages which which, by the way. So for my law firm, again, just me, myself and I when I started and now we have 12 attorneys, 36 total people, Inc 5000 lists two years in a row, definitely won't be on there this year. It's hard to maintain that, but I'm just saying that for the credibility that I've been through most of these stages, I am now at the point where I'm trying to do more and spread a message with my second company with Get Staffed Up, which is Delegate your way to freedom, right? Trying to kind of reach that influencer stage. But whatever stage you're in, we have something for you today. This this system oh, I 90 is going to help you regardless of the stage you're in. And I'll talk a little bit more about that in a second. So the why should be clear because we want more.

        Speaker 3 (00:04:58) - We want to do better. We want to have less stress. We just want to have a better life. So what what should I spend my time on if I'm not spending it on doing everything myself, answering my own emails, just constantly being a slave to my email, to the phone, to scheduling? I'm networking. I'm working really hard. Well, what should I spend my time on? Anybody heard of Perry Marshall or read any of Perry Marshall stuff? His book, 8020 Marketing, is one of the best business sales and marketing books I've ever read. A real guru in some of his other stuff, he talks about ten versus 100 versus 1000 versus 10,000. Dollar activities. And if you can read that, I'll read some of them for you. But essentially $10 an hour. Anybody still run their own errands? Right. Probably a lot of us doing expense reports, cold calling or emailing, talking to unqualified prospects. Right. Doing doing, setting up your own consultations instead of having them set up for you.

        Speaker 3 (00:05:58) - This one, I love spelling everything perfectly. One time I got an email response from somebody who I had sent an email newsletter to is like, Well, if you can misspell a word, then certainly we're not going to use you. And I, you know, we're not all perfect. So I look up this lady, no employees got her dog on our website and I'm like, Man, I wish I could help this lady, but some people can't get out of their own way. But I was practicing mindfulness and I didn't respond with what I wanted to say, so. All right. So pushing ourselves to the next type of activities, right? I was just completely stuck in this column except for one hour per day on average, I could squeeze in for legal work. And if you're a true solo, that is the average amount of time that you will spend on legal work is one hour per day. And a lot of times those hours come on the weekends and at nights, right when you're already tired.

        Speaker 3 (00:06:49) - So getting yourself to the if you're at ten, the 100 per $100 per hour activities such as creating marketing tests and experiences, managing pay per click campaigns, doing social media well, this is pretty rare. Outsourcing simple tasks. Customer follow up. Right? But how do you get there? Well, you've got to have someone else taking care of all of the $10 an hour tasks. Again, if you're running the hot dog stand and you start doing higher level like promoting, someone still has to be there to take care of the business. And that's the part that most people sort of like. I couldn't get over. I couldn't be convinced that I needed to take the step to hire somebody. But what do I spend my time on now? A thousand and $10,000 per hour task? Sure. Some of the other ones creep in, right? But instead of managing your pay per click campaigns for example, it's creating pay per click campaigns, judging your marketing materials. How much time do you think I spent on creating these slides? Zero.

        Speaker 3 (00:07:49) - All right. That was a softball. I don't need to do my own slides anymore. Anyone have a marketing team that can do this stuff for you? So you can you can get out there and speak. You can get in front of different events organizations and still take care of all the other high level activities your business needs done, but you're not doing the lower level activities. All right. It's a great feeling. Anybody have business that's coming in? As you sit here today, your phones are being answered, Consultations are being scheduled. New clients are signing up. The legal work is getting done and you're getting paid again. Great feeling when you can get there. It doesn't happen overnight, but when you start focusing your time on just pushing yourself up the ladder, that's when it gets better and better. There's a quote here from Perry Marshall. I think it's on the next slide. When you move from doing $10 an hour to $10,000 per hour work, the least valuable minute in your day is worth $0.19.

        Speaker 3 (00:08:43) - And the most valuable minute is $166 to you. Now, you're not going to. Maybe someday you'll get there, but you can't just say, I'm going to spend all day doing $10,000 an hour task. It doesn't really work that way, right? You're not going to be able to speak for eight hours a day. Essentially, you want to find yourself in the $1,000 an hour task. So there is this book, if you will. If you want to copy this book, you can go online and grab it if you want a free copy. I love sending this book to people. It's not my book. Someday, hopefully, I'll have my own book to send out. Right? I'm promoting Perry Marshall here, but he is so good and so clear of what he does. The book is called Detox Declutter and Dominate. If you text the word delegate to (833) 899-3272, we will send you a free copy. It is only about ten pages. It's mostly visual and it's mind blowing on how good it is.

        Speaker 3 (00:09:35) - So again, just write this down and at the end there'll be a landing page where you can also grab it. But text the word delegate to (833) 899-3272. So we talk about this. This is a fun one for me. I tell my team, hey, I need a slide that shows the feast and famine when you spend time. I need to show like a guy or a girl working really hard on marketing and then you go to and then you make some sales and then you bring in the legal work and then you get paid and then your business grows. But the other ones go back down, right? Because now you're doing the legal work, but nobody's spending the time on the marketing and the sales. And so it's the feast or famine cycle. So anyway, that's what they came up with. So here, if you start hiring though, then marketing, right? You start doing better marketing. Well, you don't just move on and stop marketing because you've put systems and people in place. So then you bring in sales, you bring in legal and that's how your business starts going.

        Speaker 3 (00:10:28) - I think we all know this intuitively, but for some of you who are like me, it really needs to be hammered home that it is possible you can do it. And the what again is. Is what you need to spend your time on. So going back to the five stages, if you're a hustler, you know, you've got maybe, maybe none, maybe 1 or 2 people. You just got to you need that personal assistant to take care of all of the things that are getting in the way of you going to higher level activities like legal work, for example, on average, what, $3,350 an hour? We should be pushing ourselves to do as much until we can hire attorneys of that type of work and get rid of all the other things that get in our way. Experimenter You've got about five people. You're starting to to figure yourself out how to hire, who you want to bring in, what your message is, your culture, your core values, right? And you keep growing your team, you become a visionary.

        Speaker 3 (00:11:20) - So you're just dictating this big nice picture and you're selling it. You start to set up systems because you want to scale, and then you start scaling and you turn into an influencer. Now, the problem is, as most of you have found out, when you start hiring and you start bringing people on board, you want to delegate and you want to get rid of things. But are things always done perfectly for you every time you just find those great team members? No, it doesn't work that way. It takes time. You got to train, You got to have again, create more and more systems. You got to give feedback and you have to grow. So even though you're pushing yourself up through the levels of entrepreneurship as a business owner, as a law firm owner, trying to get to the because every lawyer has a message, right? I think every lawyer really deep down wants to get to the place where they are shouting from the rooftops about what immigration should be because you're the best, most passionate immigration attorney or criminal law.

        Speaker 3 (00:12:15) - You know what the legal system should look like. And, you know, getting stuck with all these people who need your time and not creating those time barriers is, in my experience, what holds a lot of people back. So you don't have to only work on your business to grow. You can work in your business, but it's focusing on the right types of activities and then protecting your time. So let's talk about protecting our time then the I-90 formula. This is just a three step sort of, you know, business system that we came up with. A lot of it is taken traction. Anybody use iOS or traction out there? I see a few hands. Just a phenomenal, unbelievable system for running your business. But it's not a cure all. It's not going to do everything for you. You're still going to need those mentors, those guides. They're going to go deep on the people and the systems. But the other parts of your business, you you're you're going to need resources for.

        Speaker 3 (00:13:08) - So always for office hours is for issue matrix and 90 is for the 90 minute weekly team meeting or departmental meetings. And let's go through those office hours. Anybody remember office hours in law school? You went and you sat outside of your professor's door. You try to get there 30 minutes ahead of time, but there was already 15 of the same people who were there every Tuesday or Thursday, and they were always in front of you. And they all seem to get the good grades, right. Nobody's bitter. It's the same concept. And it's unfortunate that it took me so long to figure out how much time this can save. One of the biggest time sucks in our business is scheduling small meetings. I've got some time here. Email back and forth. Go to my link. Well, my my calendly link has 15 minutes, so sometimes people cancel. Now you're waiting and then you only you only need five minutes, but you schedule the 15 minutes anyway. It's just such a pain. And to me that's why office hours are just so mind blowing.

        Speaker 3 (00:14:10) - You can hold office hours with your team every day if you want, but normally 1 or 2 days per week for one hour and it's a set time. And when you're ready, your assistant sends a message to the team and says, Jean's office hours are open. Team, go ahead and run in there. So what does it look like? Somebody goes to your office hours and they're in the waiting room. Host will let you in soon. Hold office hours on Zoom or virtually even if you're back full time and everyone's in your office because you don't want people getting up and walking around the hall and waiting for your time and knocking and who's next virtually is just makes it so easy. Someone's in the waiting room, right? And this is what it looks like. You let someone in, for example, this is one of our office hours talking to Juanita, one of our associate marketing, our associate marketing director, handling an issue. You can see up here, these are all, I don't know, five, six, seven people in the waiting room.

        Speaker 3 (00:15:01) - You know, they're doing their work just waiting for you. That's the point is, if your office hours start at one and you can't get to some people to 145 or 150, they're doing their work, their screens open, and it's not a time waste for them either. You need someone else and you bring in Oh, I need to talk to Joe and Juanita about something we're all working on together, so I'm going to let them in at the same time, and then I'm going to finish my work with them and I'm going to move on and let the next person in. It will save you hours and scheduling and hours on the wasted time going back and forth. Boom. Next issue, next issue, next issue, Next person needs you. Next person needs you. The best part of this, though, is that instead of people interrupting your time. And interruptions are what kill our productivity is business owners. And as lawyers, instead of interrupting you every time you're you're maybe you're handling legal work, maybe you're writing a brief, maybe you're coming up with a great argument.

        Speaker 3 (00:15:58) - You're preparing for trial, whatever it is, Right? Maybe you just need mindfulness and headspace and people interrupt. They need your time. And it's so frustrating because it's such a productivity killer. They will not waste their time trying to interrupt you and your time will not be interrupted if you have set office hours. One of my favorite responses now, when people send me a text or a message again, I don't have those things open all the time is I respond with two words. Office hours. I'm training my people to not interrupt me unless you need to be interrupted. So on the issues matrix, this is very particular per firm, right? These are the issues that if you answer yes to any of these issues, if your team does, they will be allowed to interrupt you. Again, you adjust these according to you. These are just some examples. Will this influence a single purchase of $10,000 or more? Will this improve our systems, impact more than $10,000 of sales or affect our reputation? By me not answering right away, will we lose out on 5000 or more dollars as the question already been directed to everybody else who can potentially answer this question? Because that's really running up the ladder the way it should be.

        Speaker 3 (00:17:08) - One of my favorite not on here, but for us it's can this wait to the 90 minute weekly meeting? Right. Which I'm going to talk about next. These are the things that will help guide. You can't just say, don't talk to me in offsite because what if there's a media opportunity? I almost missed out on being on the news one time because somebody couldn't get in touch with me. Right. Thankfully, we work that out. There are times where you want to be interrupted. VIP client gets client calls. You probably want to be interrupted. And by the way, speaking of clients, you can also set office hours for your clients so that you train your staff to tell your clients, Hey, from 1 to 2 p.m. on Wednesdays and Fridays, LC makes calls to her clients. Will you be available during that time this Wednesday? Good. She'll probably call you around 105 110. So they're waiting for you and they expect your call, but they're not calling you and interrupting you. I know it sounds funny.

        Speaker 3 (00:18:01) - I lot of my clients would like that. If you're very courteous about it and you explain why, it can be very, very powerful. So what is the 90 minute team meeting? If you raise your hand, if you've read traction, if you use EOS, you will recognize this. But to me, how you run your meetings is how you run your firm. And when you see tweets and memes about, oh, you know, meetings are terrible and the people who like meetings don't like getting things done. When you run meetings the right way, it becomes really a powerful way to push your business forward. I cannot imagine running a business without 90 minutes meetings every week per department or if you're not quite big enough for the entire team. So a typical meeting agenda, five minutes. Good news. Personal good news business. It's a check in, right? You're just you're just getting into the meeting. Five minutes, reviewing your KPIs or your scorecard. If you need ten leads a week and you've gotten you've gotten seven, that's probably still a green.

        Speaker 3 (00:18:54) - But if it's five, four, three, that's a red indicator. And you start seeing red, you start to notice issues that jump out at you. This is a great way to keep in touch with the high level numbers at your business you need to look at every week. The next one is reviewing your rocks or your objectives for that quarter. Five minutes on track, Off track. You're setting issues, employee headlines or customer headlines. Something big happening next. Five minutes, the following five minutes. You're reviewing your to do's from the prior week. And then the 60 minutes is you're solving issues. You have employee leave and you open their desk and you just find like, what on earth were they doing with this stuff? You can't even believe all of the things in their desk that they were hiding or not talking about. We had one time somebody mouse was working in the not working for like six months and they just never told us. And I was like, You know what? I'm going to own that one because we didn't give them an opportunity.

        Speaker 3 (00:19:45) - This is pre 90 minute set weekly meetings where people could come and you give them an opportunity to bring up issues and present them to you so you can help or your leaders or the department chairs or your senior attorneys, whoever it is, can help solve the issues to move the business forward. And the last five, you're basically rating the meeting. So the best part about traction to me is the software. You don't even need an iOS coach to use traction. But if you use traction tools or 90 IO, the software is so good and so helpful for your business, that will be a big one for you. That's again, Traction tools or 90 IO. I have no affiliation with either. I just love them very much and I think they're amazing. Again, you can scan this QR code. We have a resource. We will upload this presentation. And and also give you there's some other things on there. And that's it. Again, I want to thank my time's up. I want to thank Jim and Tyson and just encourage you that if you put in safeguards and you and you protect your time and then you focus on higher level activities, that's how your business will grow.

        Speaker 3 (00:20:56) - And hopefully you will start to realize your dreams. That's all my time. Thank you guys so much.

        Speaker 2 (00:21:03) - Thanks for listening to the Maximum Lawyer podcast podcast. Stay in contact with your hosts and to access more content, go to maximum lawyer.com. Have a great week and catch you next time.

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