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A One Woman Show Law Firm ft. Tina Willis ML098
Categories: Podcast
LET'S PARTNER UP AND MAXIMIZE YOUR FIRM


In this episode, Jim and Tyson interview Tina Willis, an Orlando based Personal Injury lawyer. They will go over her mindset going on her own and her struggles running her boutique law firm, paying special attention to referrals and intake process. Also, Tina will share her thoughts and experience with Google Plus.

 

“For anyone who is listening and starting his or her own firm, have belief and faith that you can learn how to do it and can compete…”

About Tina:
Tina cares a lot about lifestyle, health and fitness and she really wanted from her early days working on big firms, to find a balance between work and lifestyle and find a way to not have much stress as a lawyer. She worked for big firms until she realized that they were making all the money… That’s when she started her own business.

The Firm:
Boutique law firm focused on maintaining a case load that allows me to provide highly personalized service to all of my clients. Former law professor and bid defense firm lawyer.
https://injuryattorneyflorida.com/

Hacking’s hack: Automate your documents and follow up: https://www.pandadoc.com/

Tina’s tip:
At least learn the basics of SEA, so you ar at the point where you can at least evaluate the work SEO agencies are doing.

Tyson’s tip: Personalize your referral gifts. Listen to what people like and want to do, and think about it a little bit. That will make the difference in your gifts.

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The Maximum Lawyer Podcast. Partner up, and maximize your firm.

 

Resources:

 

Transcripts: A One Woman Show Law Firm ft. Tina Willis 

Tina Willis
Yeah, that’s been a huge challenge for me, I’m still struggling very much with that. Because, you know, I mean, even answering the phone, there’s a right way to do it. And there’s a wrong way to do it. I finally gave that up. I have support for all the cases. I mean, I actually am working actively on the cases. So, you know, we have a paralegal and an assistant I can ask questions and get documents and see you know, all that stuff. But I need to hire someone. And that’s where we are kind of are right now. I really need I really actually feel like a multiply what I’m doing by like, 10.

Unknown Speaker
Run your law firm, the right away. This is the maximum liar, podcast, podcast, your hosts, Jim hacking, and Tyson metrics. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm.

Jim Hacking
Welcome to the show. Welcome back to the maximum lawyer Podcast. I’m

Tyson Mutrux
Jim hacking. And I’m tasting matrix. What’s up, Jimmy? How are you?

Jim Hacking
We’re very excited to have Tina Willis. On today’s show. Tina has been a member of the group for a while now she has a longtime social media presence. A lot of people know her from her google plus days she and will Ed used to fight back then. And now they’re back to fight. Now. We’re very excited to have her I don’t know if you know this or not Tyson. But she graduated second in her law school class. So she’s the smartest one of the bunch of the three of us. So, Tina, welcome to the show.

Tina Willis
Thank you, guys. Thanks so much for having me on.

Tyson Mutrux
Tell us a little bit about yourself, where you practice what you do and all that kind of stuff.

Tina Willis
Well, yeah, so I’m in Orlando, Florida, which, if you ask me is the most competitive market for personal injury in the country. But I know a lot of people will disagree. No, I think it’s, you know, a very competitive market. And so I spent years actually drafting documents for other lawyers, because one of the things that’s kind of quirky about me is that I really, I care a lot about lifestyle and health and fitness. And I really wanted from my early days, practicing in big firms to find a way to not have so much stress as a lawyer. So I’ve gone through a lot of stress trying to make that happen. But anyway, so I worked in big firms for a few years. And then I transitioned into mostly writing for personal injury lawyers and wrongful death lawyers in their biggest cases. And at some point, I realized, they were making all the money. And so that’s when I decided to start my own practice. And I really did it with a little engine that could attitude and really a good bit of ignorance about the competition and what I was going to be up against. So I would say that really helps, if you don’t know exactly what challenges you’re gonna face when you get started. But yeah, so I started probably around 2012, trying to generate my own cases, while still drafting for other lawyers and stuff, it took quite a few very lean years, I stopped doing the drafting, and just focused on, you know, learning as much as I could about SEO and marketing, and then it got into social media. And I also, as part of that process, decided to co counsel every case with a firm I had worked, you know, worked with in the past drafting documents. And I thought, you know, this is going to be like the low stress way to go here, I’ve just got it all figured out. But lo and behold, it actually has been, you know, quite stressful trying to figure out how to how to kind of combine our efforts. But we’ve got a really good working system that works, you know, I treat every client really well. And it that part goes well, but I do have a lot of struggles on my end in terms of the combination of the two firms. So that’s kind of the very short version of a lot of stuff.

Jim Hacking
You know, walk us through your mindset as you decided to go out on your own. When did the light switch turn on? And what did you do to prepare?

Tina Willis
Like I said, it was really just about, you know, seeing, you know, there’s this kind of a male dominated industry, but seeing that I would draft these complex documents, really, and I got into this maritime case of just over the top, I mean, all these just jurisdictional arguments, and just, you know, like, I mean, I actually worked a little while as a law professor, only for a short time in law school I, and this Visiting Professor role I taught so what procedure and so I was getting into, like, you know, law school exam questions all the time type work, and then they settled that case for, you know, multi multi million dollars. And I played, you know, a very key role in I don’t even know how many motions that appeals and stuff that there was one appeal, but numerous complex motions. And so I was like, you know, this just forget about the big case. But I just, I mean, I just it was just financial, I wasn’t charging enough, clearly. I really didn’t have much of a business mindset. It was a lawyer, and that has completely shifted, not completely, you know, but it’s shifted a lot but I don’t know I just I just decided that I wanted to do it and That was gonna kind of be one of my messages for people watching. For anyone who’s you know, just starting, I mean, most of the people watching are starting, but anyone who is just starting if just having belief and faith that you can you can learn these, you know, you can compete at whatever level you want you just put the time in is would be my message, but I didn’t really have much thought process. I mean, your other question was, if I, you know, I really went into this with a lot of ignorance about business, marketing, I mean, any of it. So, I mean, I don’t have Tyson systems or any of that, but I have really keyed in on SEO. And I think I’ve, I’ve learned a lot about that. I’m still a total hack, but I, you know, I’ve had a lot of success in that way. And so, you know, I don’t, I’m just doing the best I can kind of like, all of us, except I’m not doing as well as when Tyson described his systems and everything like, Oh, my God, Lord, if I only had those things,

Tyson Mutrux
listen, we’re all struggling. It’s a struggle for everyone. So I get it. So I want to ask you something, you, you faced a serious from a marketing standpoint, a serious change in technology, or maybe not a change in technology, but maybe something that you thought was going to go one way or the other way? And I’m telling like Google Plus, which you probably know, I’m gonna ask you about that. So how did you deal with that you thought Google Plus was gonna be this big thing? I think a lot of people did. And it it sort of fizzled out. It’s still there, but sort of fizzled out. How did you deal with that change?

Tina Willis
I mean, I did meet quite a few people and learn from lawyers who are doing their own website, SEO, because many of those, you know, some of the lawyers who are ranking best in the country were very active on Google Plus, and so I was thankfully able to befriend those people, you know, or at least observe what they were doing. So that was, you know, I don’t think it was wasted time. I mean, I guess we’re I connected with Mitch, we actually had a show we have Mitch on. So I mean, I actually really prefer that platform. So that part was difficult to I then came over to Facebook, and started a community but then decided social wasn’t worth it and went, you know, went silent for geez, no, no, on and off, but you know, like a year. Okay, there’s a there’s a big disagreement. Right now, the people who I would consider to be the leading SEO minds in the world, disagree as to whether Google Plus is still helping in search. So my summary of that would be the the guys who are into organic SEO, believe that it’s absolutely not, and it’s a total waste of time to spend one second, even at hiring someone to spend time on Google Plus, which you know, we can do would be a waste of time and money. But then there are some local experts. So local SEO experts, who believe that Google Plus is still helping in the rankings locally. A big problem I went through recently, probably over the last six months was I had to convert my website to HTTPS from HTTP. And even though I hire developers do that, I learned a lot myself to make sure I mean, I’m very untrusting now when it comes to my website, by hire developers, but learned a lot myself before hiring them to make sure they were doing properly. Well, in the process of that. You lose all social shares, their social share counts, and things like that. And that would include all of that work on Google Plus, which was one of my hesitations. But um, you know, you read so much about SEO that is contradictory and new aren’t really sure. You just have to learn, you know, which experts you maybe want to trust. But I have heard that perhaps if you sort of start back up that effort, eventually Google will make the connection between the previous social shares and how that happens. I don’t know. But um, I still am contemplating some activity on Google Plus. And, you know, despite the naysayers, and some people, I recommend them, I mean, respect the most in the world. For SEO, saying it has no value, I still, you know, it would at least be worth for me putting an assistant on it, you know, doing some, like what lawyers would do is just circle. I mean that they had circles they are but they would share, like he would get a list of lawyers that were your friends. They’re sharing your stuff, you share their stuff, and it’s just kind of like you could do it, and that part of it and minutes per week. And I think that might actually be worth it for someone it might be worth it may or may not. I don’t think it’d be worth your time personally, because no one’s there. But you know, so I don’t know, but how I dealt with it. I mean, it was pressing.

Jim Hacking
So I thought Google Plus was gonna be quite the thing and it certainly fizzled out. You know, tell us a little bit about your setup about your firm, how you do intake where your cases come from?

Tina Willis
Well, the majority of my cases come from the internet and You know, you felt really like a total loser when, when John Fisher was asking everyone your case is primarily from at the max law conference, which, by the way was incredible. And I hope to go every year, John Fisher was asking, do you get your cases mainly through the internet or mainly through referrals? You may have some third category of like, combination of both or something. But the answer for me is from the internet, I am starting to slowly get more referrals from past clients. Yeah, for me, it’s all about it’s all about SEO. But then I started thinking about his question recently, before the show, and it’s like, well, maybe your internet marketing is not like doing what should do for you. I mean, I haven’t been doing this for as many years as St. John Fisher. So I went into it, assuming I wouldn’t get any lawyer referrals. I just assume that and I didn’t try to get them. I was just all about the internet. And then my setup intake is the biggest struggle for me right now. And I’m trying to set up systems for that, I have got a have finally gotten someone at first, I answered all my own calls. Because the deal was that I deal with my side of it, I deal with the intake. And then I get select projects on the cases like I might go meet with an expert, I do try to attend depositions and mediations in our bigger cases. And then drafting motions and just discussing what we’re going to do. And there aren’t that many in personal injury, a lot of cases don’t have any motion replies, but some do, we get involved in more complicated cases and death cases. So I just sort of take my assignments, the really great working relationship with another female lawyer at this firm, and we’re kind of, we just worked really well together. So systems for handling the cases are taken care of. It’s just, I guess, the intake part of it. And I had a big problem with referrals actually referrals to other lawyers, when it’s a case that for some reason, we won’t handle. And I got, I got really kind of I referred out maybe like 50 cases two years ago, and I expected to one law firm that I feel is untrustworthy. But, yeah, I’ve had some struggles with intakes and referrals. But, you know, it can be a good problem to have. I mean, my business also went down when I did the conversion. But I’ve been now extremely busy and just kind of overwhelmed recently. So I need Tyson systems for my ins, I need some intake software’s what I need, because I just deal with them, I I’ll only consider cases that seem to be very serious injuries or death. So it really try to avoid it if it’s a soft tissue injury case. And But then, once I get that type of person, I mean, I’m all over it, I’ll spend as much time with them. And they as they need on the phone answer every single question, you know, follow up and do a little bit of sales sort of aggressive. It used to be a real in real estate sales. So I really believe in the follow up with these big clients, you know, who may be hesitant to sign up. In fact, I just have a whole bunch of this week going on, but a big case, potential case. And then they were considering talking to a prior lawyers, and I talked to him a couple times. And then when I found that out, I sent another email saying, Hey, here’s, here’s a little bit more about our background. And I plan to follow up again, and that kind of technique has worked really well for signing some nice cases. So I’m, you know, I’m sort of just hacking around my, and I need more systems, we’re actually just also talking about a partnership. So I mean, talking seriously as and we’ve kind of sort of agreed we need to do it. But you know, how that should be structured and everything, a separate partnership. So you know, it’s been going well, but it’s also, you know, going disastrously at the same time.

Jim Hacking
What do you enjoy the most about being a lawyer? And what do you think you’re the best at about being a lawyer?

Tina Willis
I think thinking of creative arguments, and digging, when I least I think digging when others might just, you know, might not dig as deeply either in legal research or in the facts talking to the, to the client or talking to their witnesses. Like just yesterday, I was talking to one of our clients who had a, you know, an injury that’s going to lead to surgery, but after probably 30 minutes of talking. I mean, most lawyers would have probably realized this, but maybe not as early on. And I realized it was $23 million work contract that he may very seriously may lose. I mean, most lawyers will realize that but just the way the conversation went, I wasn’t totally sure. Especially a high volume practice might not have realized that. But I mean, in terms of I don’t do as much motion drafting anymore. And it’s kind of sad because like, that’s actually probably what I liked the most and I feel there’s a lot of skill and creativity and things that are involved in that and I wish I could be doing that if I could just have someone else do all of the marketing as successfully. I would much rather do that. But right now, that’s just, that’s not in the cards. So it’s just not the way everything worked out. So, I mean, I do spend a considerable amount of time marketing, I spend a ton of time on that. So there’s creativity involved in that, which I enjoy. There’s some challenge involved in that, but it’s not as enjoyable to me is what I kind of used to do. Well, I take it very seriously when I talk to them and, and just really try to explain the whole process, what’s going to be involved how they can get the higher value in their case. I mean, I signed up one client, I probably spent four or five hours with, I think it was last week or so it was a big case. But you know, so I really try I take it very seriously to make them feel like we’re gonna answer their questions and deal with it and set things up, make sure we got witnesses lined up, or experts we might need and things like that I take it to heart to really try to help the people. And one of the things that’s most frustrating to me, in the personal injury law, we’re all this limited we are by the laws, and by the way, the insurance, you know, is structured. And a lot of people don’t think about that. But it’s just so I feel like the whole legal system in general is so unfair to the regular people I grew up for. And it’s just, you know, when I worked in these big firms, with the big corporations with the wealthy individuals who have them, we know this and you know, the ones who cannot really hire lawyers, and then people who are hiring on contingency, you know, just can’t get the help. They need can’t get, or they’re dealt with in a volume way and stuff like that. And I thought kind of pisses me off. But it is what it is.

Tyson Mutrux
Yeah, yeah. I mean, you’re definitely rights. You know, there’s it’s kind of built against us. And we know that that’s that we’re able to use the insurance company as the Boogeyman. But something you were talking about really stuck with me was that just explaining things to clients, there is a distinct difference between the good pie lawyers and the bad pie lawyers. And I think the clients are smart enough to sense that. So I think that they, when they’re talking to you, they know that you’re one of the legit ones versus the other hacks that they talked to. So I think that’s good to hear. I’m not gonna let you off the hook on something that you said, and hopefully, I’m not putting you too much on the spot. But there’s a problem that I think that most of us face, when we refer out cases to other attorneys. And that is a significant revenue stream, potentially, for us. So what are the issues? Specifically? What are the problems that you’re facing?

Tina Willis
Oh, man. And you know, I wish you know, geez, if you could have someone you know, speak about that next year at Max lochain. Find someone who’s really tricked that out and learned a good system, I’d like to talk to them, I actually am reading a book, that book on intake was shared in the community a while back, I’m almost at the end. And it has a section on dealing with lawyer referrals, which I just read this morning, in fact, so but for me, being you know, it’s just so cutthroat. The trust is a huge part of it, because I’m not going to probably Sue and you need to be on the contract, I trusted this particular lawyer to put me on a contract. And that wasn’t happening, as you know, as kind of somewhat naive at the time, about how you know, I mean, I just never in a million years thought I couldn’t trust another lawyer, any lawyer. And I just am here to tell you that is not the case. So in and I’ve had some other referrals out that I haven’t heard back from in a while. And I know these cases, obviously can take a while. But I think it’s the standard that other lawyers will not give you nice updates. They may even forget you came in on the case. If you do not, I mean, you really do need a system for keeping track on it following up with it. And I know bigger firms do have it even you know, more established smaller firms have that kind of follow up system. But still, I mean, you gotta be on the contract in Florida, it’s required that you’d be on the contract, but that doesn’t mean that the lawyer who I trusted to put me there is going to do it. So now not the biggest the best answer I found is to work with an attorney you really trust and you know, maybe I would say talk to some friends about who you know, who they would trust. But still I mean, I worry about the I just always worry that I don’t know I mean, I’m not the type is gonna go sue I mean, I might on a big case, but I don’t know it’s tough. I haven’t found the best solution is when I worked with firms to trust and not too many of you

Tyson Mutrux
thought about signing it up on a contract with their name and information so you can you have control the contract, and then hand it over.

Tina Willis
Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I tried that for a while but I was actually getting just so busy the volume there was just absolutely no way I could handle it. I was trying to refer out cases that weren’t quite a serious and I mean, at that point, I was getting probably like, I don’t know, and sizable cases per week when that was happening and beyond just me and I you know ties In that a lot of these cases, you know, there may be nice value there may not if they and so how much time do you want to put into? You know, for a bigger case? Yeah, I mean, I actually get a good number of big of potentially big cases, you just, you know, the slam dunk doesn’t come along a lot. So you’re saying how much time, you know, do I want to invest in. And the other thing is, you get him signed up. And then the other firm, for some reason has a reason they don’t, they don’t like it. Now, I don’t want to take it forever. Now you’re all buried in this case and needing to get out of it. And I don’t like the idea of withdrawing that was something I really did not want to do. I don’t want to sign anyone up, if I think there’s a decent chance we’re going to have to withdraw. So I’m mainly mainly because of, you know, online reviews and things like that. So, I mean, you know, also talks for the client, but I mean, you could explain that, but then you know, they’re gonna be upset. So, I mean, I’m not sure there’s an easy answer. It’s a big case, yeah, if there’s, if you got a really nice case, you’re sending it to someone else. The other thing is, I mean, I have had a couple of nice med mal cases, those are just so you know, until they look at the medical records and stuff, you just have no idea. But um, so I guess if you know, if a semi truck death case, clear liability comes along. I would not refer that case without freaking making sure you are sitting, you know, at the table with the contract. And then,

Tyson Mutrux
Spinney will will volunteer to help you with that case, if you’d like. Okay, okay. Yeah.

Jim Hacking
All right. So Tina, first of all, I’ve never seen anyone who has a better system for referring out cases than John Fisher, I believe it’s in his book, The Power of a system. But if it’s not, you should definitely talk to John about the process. And it’s it is a very detailed, very well documented process. And he’s very careful with who he refers cases to, he would never get caught in a situation where some other law firm isn’t living up to their end of the bargain. So maybe we can get John to talk about that next year at the conference, I want to ask you a question that I think is going to distill some things that we’ve talked about already. And that is, what kind of support do you have, I have the sneaky suspicion that you like to do a lot of the work and maybe don’t like to let other people do some things that you might not necessarily need to be doing. And I say that as someone who has that similar makeup.

Tina Willis
Yeah, that’s been a huge challenge. For me, I’m still struggling very much with that. Because, you know, I mean, even answering the phone, there’s a right way to do it. And there’s a wrong way to do it. I finally gave that up. I had to I mean, not long ago, actually. But I in the beginning, I used to have my own phone. So I have support for all the cases. I mean, I actually am working actively on the cases. So you know, we have a paralegal and an assistant, I can ask questions and get documents and see, you know, all that stuff. But in terms of my side of it, other than answering the phone, nothing. And that is where another big problem for me right now I actually have tried training someone and then there was, you know, it’s just kind of disaster. And a lot of what I do so many different types of things, I do my work on the cases, and then all the different marketing stuff. I mean, and then there’s confidentiality with the marketing stuff. You know, I don’t want to just train anyone. So it’s, it’s a huge challenge. I mean, I’ve Mitch helped me, you’re encouraged me to look into virtual assistants, which I read this whole long thing a couple of weeks ago, and a lot of the negative sides of it, Jim, you hired someone, and then you were just trying to figure out things for them to do. So you know, that’s not so great. And it’s just, I need to hire someone. And that’s, that’s, that’s where we are kind of are right now. I really need I mean, I feel like I can multiply kind of I really actually feel like a multiply what I’m doing by like, 10. Yeah, I need I need help. And I need to figure out what’s up. And that’s really difficult for me.

Tyson Mutrux
I’m wondering if maybe the problem is do you have a office manual or some sort of guide for whenever you bring in a new employee? Or if you if you do have that if you don’t have that? I mean, is that maybe the problem whenever you bring on a new person,

Tina Willis
that is a problem. And I actually read, you know, on the VA stuff, you know, give him a long list of instructions and all that I think, I think was Tim Ferriss to write The Four Hour Workweek, he said he spent like 65 hours writing up all these, you know, and Mitch, one of the key things you said was you got to take a step back to do these things. And I just could not in a place right now I can take a step back.

Jim Hacking
So Tina, you were talking to us about how a employee handbook seems overwhelming. And I was wondering if you remembered Tyson’s presentation at the conference where he actually has this sort of nifty system for creating a system sort of that drill down method that he talked about the blocks, and then the tasks. And I thought that was really a nice way of helping someone do it. And I know that an employee manual is a huge, airy burden. And luckily for me, my wife joined our firm. And she knocked that out with Adela, my longtime office assistant, I’m not built for systems, but I think Tyson is right when he talks about at least, if you could put a fence around everything that has to happen to Tina Willis law, I think just doing that exercise, before you give out any work to anybody else. Just having that understanding of everything that has to get done, would be very empowering.

Tina Willis
Yeah, I mean, I’m sure it would, but you know, due to understand my list, and and I think I said this, I mean, I’m listening. You know, I know, we all we’re all a work in progress. I’m considering it. But you know, when I went to the max law conference, I was saying my list of things to do, my list of things to do was, you know, 1000, from the marketing standpoint, and it was 2000, when I left, and so it’s, I already have so many things I’ve got, you know, we’re working right now, like, for example, I don’t know, if you guys, were working on a kind of a lawyer link thing, which is one of the biggest challenges for lawyers is getting links. And so we spent a ton of time on that, you know, behind the scenes, all the while, you know, all this casework and everything else. I mean, it’s just, I only accept now more serious injury and death cases. And I’ve had four signups this week, and spent a ton of time with those people. I mean, obviously, you’re not going to drop that. It’s just, I don’t know, I just go on, like, a million miles an hour. I mean, I do so many different things. That’s the biggest challenge. I mean, I need to clearly I need to one of those suggestions I really liked. I mean, his presentation was awesome, by the way, I mean, if it can be done, that’s the way to, you know, if I could spend the time, that’s the way to do it. But um, another thing I saw on all this stuff I was reading was to do screenshots, you know, so I do a lot of stuff online. And doing screenshots to show this is exactly you know, what I want things. I mean, clearly it needs to be, it needs to be done. It’s just that, you know, I do everything, I do everything for my own website. So I do backing up my website, updating plugins, to writing content, doing videos, the links, which is just horrible. And then the technical part of the website is, it’s been the worst for me. I’m doing all kinds of things like that all the time. And they’re just so different. Everything you know, so it’s a challenge to make working.

Tyson Mutrux
So you’re, you like working on the website stuff, which sounds which is good. I mean, like, I think I like working on website stuff, too. And so you want to do that stuff. Now, when it comes to the legal stuff, like give me an example of, of something that you know, you shouldn’t be doing in the legal standpoint that you can you can offload on to someone else. Give me an example of what what that might be?

Tina Willis
Well, other than what I’ve already offloaded. I mean, I, I mean, obviously, I probably should let go a little bit of it, the intake process, I just really feel like that’s an important we were competing with such, you know, huge billboards and all that stuff. And if we’re not giving them that, that careful treatment, you know, I just feel like that’s, that’s sort of key to keeping them.

Tyson Mutrux
Are you doing all of the intake process? Like what do you mean, what’s what, what are all the things that you were personally doing in the intake process?

Tina Willis
Well, like I said, it used to answer the calls. But now once it’s at least been pre screened, and it sounds like something that we really might want to take a closer look at. I mean, I go through everything. And I mean, one of the you know, I don’t even know, I have never watched another lawyer do a personal injury intake. So I need to come watch you Tyson. But, you know, I actually literally get all their background, medical and all that. And I mean, that’s something someone else.

Tyson Mutrux
Third, that is absurd that you’re doing that, you should be doing that. But here’s what they care about when they’re talking to you. Sorry, Jimmy, I’m sort of jumping in here a lot. But here’s the thing, when they, they want to get to know you, and they want to know that you’re okay that you’re trustworthy. Once you’ve established that, let me know I like to meet with our clients in person, sometimes we’re able to sign them up over the phone. Once you’ve gotten to

Tina Willis
that point, that’s you, I do that too. I do that we go ahead.

Tyson Mutrux
Once you’ve gotten to that point, you offer it, you say you know what, I’m going to put you in the hands of our client care specialist or intake specialist, whatever you want to call them, and let them wrap it up. They’re already done that they got to know you, you’ve served your purpose. Now get them to the right person, because that integration is time consuming.

Tina Willis
Let me challenge you. I mean, that it’s probably right about, you know, in a large percentage of cases, but like this case, we’re the guys maybe going to lose $23 million contract. I’m really concerned that that would not be uncovered soon enough to realize how important that case may be. Without that digging. You know, I guess it comes from my background of the defense side where you know, we’re getting paid by the hour. And you know, you’re going to do all of that digging upfront to say, hey, this isn’t this is a potentially a, you know, a very big case for us. I mean, it’s like deep pockets on the other side. So I would just love if, you know, anyway, so I mean, something like that I’m worried will will fall through the cracks. But I mean, I guess if you had a system for make sure you I don’t know, you just really have to trust, you know, the person you hired to dig into lost wages and contracts, if they’re self employed and you know, things like that. I’m just so worried that I just feel like there were some things that are uncovered. Like, when I was actually answering the calls, I felt there was a benefit to that for sure, because they were cases that were declined by other law firms and a little bit of digging, oh, this is a nice case. A lot of times, I’d be in lost wages. But obviously, we’ve asked enough to know that I mean, for sure, I could let go the medical I mean, I could still dig into the facts, you know, within a shorter conversation and let go of, I mean, I literally did your name, your address your Social Security. I mean, that’s, that’s crazy. I mean, I my vision is to sort of bifurcate it. If I had someone, I’d be like, Look, you ask them all this, whatever, then I’ll read the form and see if I want to do any follow up questions or anything. I mean, that would be my sweet spot, I think, you know, and another thing is that I’ve kind of not reinvested, I didn’t want to reinvest, because I feel this whole thing is just like, high stakes gambling. So I’m getting now to where I mean, I have reinvested some, but I’ve been very, very lean, very, very, and I’m starting to break out of that I, you know, I’m getting over that a little bit. But I think that depends to have the age you are when you start, now I’m a little bit older, I did a lot of investing in real estate, too, when I was first getting paid. And now I’m like, Okay, this is actually going somewhere, I should maybe reinvest a little in what I’m doing. I mean, I’m not running a firm in the same way that you guys do. So, you know, people listening are maybe not, you know, are not going to have, you know, may not connect with everything I’m saying, for sure. But um, I need to get up to speed obviously, on more than just online marketing. So, I mean, I’m listening, I love the lawyer conference and see, and for me to hiring someone would involve a bigger office space, I do have, you know, an actual office, but it’s just a one person office with access to a nice conference room, I would have to actually, you know, I mean, we’re talking, you know, a pretty major monthly investment from where I’m sitting. I mean, at least, I mean, you can have money in the bank, and like, No, I can’t spend it. It’ll all go away.

Jim Hacking
So my question to you is, where do you want to be three years from now? And how are you gonna get there?

Tina Willis
Yeah, like, in my biggest fantasy, I would just be working on the biggest cases from my RV somewhere in Colorado. So yeah, that’s one of the reasons I mean, I’m, I would really like to just be doing. I mean, I want to be traveling and stuff. So I have a different goal. That’s one of the things I see, you know, all the lawyers are so just, I mean, so driven, and I mean, I’m pretty driven to, you know, that competitive spirit, but it’s like, you know, I want to live to you and I want to be healthy and I want to enjoy my life. And I’m really struggling with those two things. So, yeah.

Jim Hacking
Tina, Tina, if you’re doing everything, you’re not going to be able to travel at all.

Tina Willis
Yeah, well, no, because I’m gonna make so freakin much money. No, that’s my dream, my fantasy. No, I mean, and actually, you know, I’m not I don’t need to have John Fisher or Mitch Jackson’s bank account to be happy enough to be traveling around. But yeah, you’re right. I mean, I really do need you. And I’m working on it. I mean, we, I am working on, you know, developing systems. I need an assistant. Yeah. So and I’m in this firm I’m working with I mean, they are just completely be I communicate with him regularly. And we’ve talked about a partnership and some funding and, you know, joint funding and things like that. And we’re, that’s, you know, underway. So yeah, I mean, I’m going to have to do something I can’t I can’t do everything myself. I’ve I’ve been a one woman show though. I have accomplished a lot alone but it’s not good. Not good to be doing that. You guys inspire me.

Tyson Mutrux
Listen, I there’s so much more that I want to go into. I think that we need to have later down the road. A part two of this. I think we need to go into we got to wrap things up. Because I know we go all

Tina Willis
right. I appreciate it. Yeah, that sounds great. I’d love to come back. And as long as you guys don’t hold my feet to the fire and say What have you done? Like did you write your employee manual?

Tyson Mutrux
We absolutely will. Absolutely going to

Tina Willis
ask you if you did all these like, it’s just like, you know, hey, you do a YouTube channel do Oh, yeah, that sounds great. Well, let’s do community marketing. I mean, you can only do so many, you know, things and it’s a challenge. It’s a huge challenge. But yeah, I’m very open to part two, part three and part whatever you want to do. I really I think you guys are awesome. I wanted once We can say that the conference was great. And anyone who did not attend last year or this year, miss a wonderful experience. And I like I truly, sincerely hope to go every year. So

Tyson Mutrux
I talked to Ken yesterday, he has some ideas I’m sure Jimmy already knows, which I’m not going to talk about, which are, I think, a pretty friggin awesome for the next one. So I think it’d be pretty cool. Alright, so I want to remind everyone to go go to the Facebook group get involved, Tina shares a lot of great information there about SEO and social and everything else there. Also go to iTunes, give us a five star review, if you will, please. Jimmy, what is your hack of the week?

Jim Hacking
Well, I did want to say about the Facebook group that that I was really excited to see the joint video that Wayne Pollack and Tina made last week that just made my week it was it was a real highlight. It made a lot of the work that we do both for the conference, and for the podcasts worthwhile. It really just cheered me up and made me happy my hack of the week. So you might recall Tyson about a year ago that back then we were doing all of our contracts manually. That is that one of the attorneys in the office would meet with a client, they would then say Jim and you the contract and when I got around to doing a contract, I would prepare a contract and then they would take it to the client and have them sign it or the client would take it with them. And so we’ve really been working on we work Kelsey Bratcher and I worked on a Google Slides sort of setup where we could automate a lot of it out of Infusionsoft. But we’re sort of getting ready to take that to the next level. And we’re using a program called panda doc. And we’re really excited about it, we’ve set up the contract template, we’ve put in all the data for the different types of cases that we handle. And now we’re going to be in that stage where clients can have the contract emailed to them directly, they can sign it on a phone or an iPad. And then once they sign that, that’ll then send them a link to pay our legal fee, and then to open up the new matter inside Clio. And then it also has the great capability of letting us know and reminding us who isn’t, who hasn’t signed their contract, or how long it’s been. And we can do automation through Infusionsoft because panna doc has a pretty robust API, which allow us to automate follow up for people who don’t sign up or do sign up. So I’m pretty excited about it. We’re just about ready to launch it.

Tyson Mutrux
Pretty cool. All right, awesome. Tina, you know, the routine? Do you have a hack or tip or a hack for us? Yeah, I

Tina Willis
actually forgot about this part. But one of the, here’s what I would say, you know, SEO is something that I focused on a lot. And what I, I’ve tried a lot to decide whether I think lawyers should do their own SEO or not. One of the things I disagree with will Ed about is how difficult or hard or easy this might be i For me, it’s been extremely difficult and time consuming. So I can’t say that lawyers should do their own. But I want my hack. And my tip would be that lawyers at least learn the basics, you know, read some articles on the basics of SEO, if they don’t know it already. So that they’re at the point where they can at least evaluate, and I guess maybe most lawyers have figured that out, but where they can, you know more carefully evaluate the work any SEO agency is doing for them. That’s about it. Right now.

Tyson Mutrux
It’s actually my partner. At his old firm, they had an issue, and I won’t mention the company names, they hired one of the big companies for their SEO, and they weren’t getting the results that they were paying for. I think they’re paying six grand a month or something like that something ridiculous. And they’re like, we’re just not getting the return on this. And so they hired another SEO company to see what the other one was doing. And notice that they weren’t doing X, Y, actually, were probably doing a, b and c and then D through Z they weren’t doing at all. So that’s a good piece of advice. And that actually allowed them to get out of the contract, which were otherwise would have been really hard to get out of. So if you’re spending a bunch of money not getting the results, it may benefit you to spend 1000 bucks or so have another company come in and look behind and see what’s going on. So that’s that’s good advice, Tina. So my tip of the week is actually, we may have talked about this on the podcast before, but I want to really emphasize it. So after the conference, I’ve been getting some gifts and there have been some really cool ones. And I’m not gonna mention all of them. But I got a from cribs law firm. Actually, it’s Jason cribs. He had actually sent me a bottle of beer and I can’t tell if he made the beer himself. But it was it was branded with his, with his label on it, I thought was really, really cool. The tip is to personalize your guests. And another one is, is a really cool one. It’s by Parker layer at layer 7x An accident handbook. Parker knows I want to write a book. And so he sort of sent this to me as inspiration, read the book. And then Christopher nicolaysen He sent me a bottle of Fortaleza tequila because he knows I liked that specific brand of tequila, because he listened to our conversation. So just listen, if you before you send a referral gift to someone to thank them, think about it a little bit before you send it and that can go a long way because I mean, I got some really cool gifts and I’m not gonna mention them all again, but it’s been pretty quick and awesome. So anyways, that’s our show for the week. Tina, thank you so much for coming on. You’re awesome. You’re awesome member of the group. Thank you so much. Thank you.

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