Watch the YouTube version of this episode HERE

Google isn't disappearing, but it's no longer the only place potential clients are looking for lawyers.

In this episode of the Maximum Lawyer Podcast, Tyson Mutrux sits down with Vaidas Cikotas and Steve Williams of Rise Up Media to unpack one of the biggest shifts happening in legal marketing: the rise of AI-powered search. As more consumers turn to ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, and other large language models for recommendations instead of traditional Google searches, law firms need to rethink how they build online authority.

Rather than chasing the latest AI buzzwords, Vaidas and Steve explain what actually matters. They break down the difference between SEO and Generative Engine Optimization (GEO), why consistency across every online platform is becoming essential, and how law firms can improve their chances of being recommended by AI tools. The conversation also includes a live experiment comparing results across ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini, revealing just how differently each platform evaluates the same question.

If your firm is relying on the same marketing strategy it used a few years ago, this episode will help you understand what's changing and what you should do next.

What You'll Learn

• Why AI search is changing how prospective clients find law firms
• The difference between SEO, GEO, and why both matter
• Why consistency across your website, directories, and online profiles is now critical
• How attorney credentials, reviews, and case results influence AI recommendations
• What law firms should update today to improve AI visibility
• Why no marketing agency has completely "figured out" AI search yet
• How to avoid expensive AI marketing gimmicks and focus on what actually works

Highlights

• 00:00 – Why law firms are behind on the shift from Google search to AI search
• 05:15 – What Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) actually is and why content still matters
• 11:20 – The key differences between traditional SEO and optimizing for AI platforms
• 18:55 – The most common mistakes law firms make with their websites and online presence
• 25:30 – Live comparison: ChatGPT vs. Claude vs. Gemini recommendations for lawyers
• 37:20 – The seven-point GEO audit checklist every law firm should complete
• 43:35 – How to evaluate AI marketing companies and avoid buying into empty promises

Connect with Vaidas Cikotas and Steve Williams

Vaidas Cell - 704-953-7051

Steve Cell - 412-713-2764

Full Transcript: 

Tyson Mutrux (00:00)
All right, gents, I want to start here because I think that most law firms right now are thinking about marketing like it's still 2020, and it has changed drastically.

What are you seeing that most law firms haven't noticed yet?

Vaidas Cikotas (00:13)
I think the biggest thing we're seeing is that people have heard of it, they're confused by it, they don't know what to do with it, but it's everything related to the LLMs—ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, and all the AI platforms.

We're getting people calling us saying, "Hey, I asked ChatGPT and either you were there or you weren't there." But they have no idea why.

There's an enormous amount of conversation around, "How do I get into these AI results? What do I need to do so I show up where my competitors are showing up?"

The reality is there isn't one single answer. There isn't one agency that has completely figured this puzzle out because it's a constantly moving target.

There are, however, things you can do to give yourself the best chance of having these AI models find you for what you're actually an expert in.

Tyson Mutrux (01:08)
Are you guys able to tell how often people are using ChatGPT, Claude, and Perplexity compared to Google nowadays?

Or is it still kind of the Wild West?

Steve Williams (01:19)
Well, every law firm out there has experienced about a 30–35% drop in website traffic.

That makes things interesting because marketing companies start calling and saying, "Oh my gosh, you're falling off the face of the earth. Search is dying."

But here's the reality—it isn't just law firms. Virtually every website on Google has experienced a similar decline because people are using AI platforms like ChatGPT, Grok, Claude, and Gemini.

People aren't just searching anymore.

They're asking for recommendations.

Search isn't going away, but it's no longer the finish line.

The finish line now is answering questions.

Keep things simple. Answer the questions people are asking, and you'll have a much better chance of appearing inside these AI platforms.

Tyson Mutrux (02:13)
I know you both live this every day, but I'm curious.

Is this happening faster than you expected?

Vaidas Cikotas (02:21)
I don't think it's happening faster.

I actually think it isn't happening quite as fast as people on the street are making it sound.

Certain things are changing faster than others.

For example, we track calls and intakes for all of our clients every single day.

We're starting to see some ChatGPT searches leading to calls, clicks, and intakes. We're seeing Gemini referrals too.

But it's not dramatically denting Google's dominance yet.

That's still coming.

I actually think the biggest threat to Google was never Bing or Yahoo or another search engine.

The younger generation simply isn't going to Google anymore.

They're opening ChatGPT or Claude and asking a question.

That completely bypasses Google.

In many cases, it even bypasses your website because someone can go directly from an AI recommendation to making a phone call.

SEO still matters because it's a huge validation signal for Google.

Your website still matters.

But there are now dozens of additional signals—credentials, validation, citations, and information spread across the internet—that increase your chances of appearing in AI-generated recommendations.

It hasn't completely changed the way people contact firms yet, but it's changing every single week.

The hardest part is that it's almost impossible to track.

With SEO, it's easy.

Someone searched Google...

They clicked...

They called...

They hired you.

With AI, you might know you're showing up in recommendations, but there isn't always a direct connection proving that recommendation led to the phone call.

So you almost have to believe that's where the future is headed while you prepare for it.

Tyson Mutrux (04:37)
Here's what I think is funny.

About a year ago I was at the gym wearing a shirt that had "SEO" across the front.

A guy in his thirties asked me, "What's SEO?"

I thought everyone knew that meant Search Engine Optimization.

Now, suddenly everyone's talking about GEO.

People barely knew what SEO meant, and now we're asking them to understand Generative Engine Optimization.

How would you explain GEO to your parents?

Vaidas Cikotas (05:16)
Steve, you want this one?

Steve Williams (05:18)
Sure.

GEO stands for Generative Engine Optimization.

Everyone hears that term and immediately thinks AI is taking over the world.

It isn't taking over the world.

But it has changed how people search.

People aren't looking for links anymore.

They're looking for answers.

We've said for twenty years that content is king.

That hasn't changed.

Content is still king.

People keep asking, "How do I show up in ChatGPT? How do I show up in Gemini?"

The answer is still content.

It's also about keeping things incredibly simple.

Accuracy.

Consistency.

Every piece of information about your law firm needs to match across every platform.

If you moved offices three years ago but Yelp still has your old address, that inconsistency can hurt you.

AI platforms reward consistency.

Office phone number.

Office address.

Firm name.

Practice areas.

Everything needs to match.

People trust ChatGPT because it remembers them.

It learns their habits.

It tailors recommendations to each individual user.

So if you want ChatGPT to trust your law firm, your information has to be trustworthy everywhere it finds it.

Instead of saying something vague like, "Fighting for justice," be specific.

"I'm a personal injury lawyer in Tampa, Florida helping people injured in accidents."

That's what AI understands.

Go rewrite your profile everywhere.

Your website.

Super Lawyers.

AVVO.

Every directory you're listed in.

Answer simple client questions.

That's what helps AI understand who you are and recommend you.

Tyson Mutrux (07:49)
Here's something that's always frustrated me.

If my website already ranks really well on Google...

Why doesn't ChatGPT automatically recommend me?

Vaidas Cikotas (08:01)
That's actually a really good question...

Vaidas Cikotas (08:01)
That's a fair question.

Here's an example we were given by some people at our corporate headquarters.

Four people sat in the same office, pulled up ChatGPT, asked the exact same question, and every one of them received a different answer.

That's because ChatGPT learns from your history. It knows what you've searched before, what you've interacted with, and what kinds of answers you're looking for.

SEO is different.

If you write great content, target the right keywords, and build authority, you can generally predict how Google is going to respond.

ChatGPT doesn't work that way.

Claude is different than Gemini.

Gemini is different than Grok.

Every large language model uses different signals and different sources.

So there isn't one thing you can do that guarantees success across all of them.

SEO is still important because that's where Google gathers much of its information. Google's AI Overview is essentially performing a search for you and summarizing the results before you ever click a website.

Generative AI takes that a step further.

Instead of simply summarizing information, it begins recommending attorneys based on credibility and expertise.

SEO tells AI what you do.

Your credentials tell AI why it should recommend you.

Instead of saying you've recovered millions of dollars, be specific.

Talk about recovering $2.3 million in a trucking accident.

Talk about trial experience.

Talk about certifications.

Talk about everything that demonstrates expertise.

The more specific and credible you are, the better chance AI has of recognizing you as an authority.

We've even had clients search for "best personal injury lawyer in Orlando," not find themselves, and ask ChatGPT why.

Sometimes the response is fascinating.

ChatGPT will explain that it intentionally recommended firms that exclusively practice personal injury because your firm also handles criminal defense and bankruptcy.

Your credentials were good enough.

Your positioning wasn't specific enough.

So the way someone asks the question dramatically changes who gets recommended.

That's why there isn't one magic button you can press.

It's constantly evolving.

Tyson Mutrux (11:00)
So if I'm hearing you correctly...

If I only focus on SEO, that doesn't guarantee success inside the AI platforms.

But what if I focus only on AI?

Will that naturally help my SEO?

Or are these completely different strategies?

Vaidas Cikotas (11:18)
They're connected, but they're absolutely different.

Think of your website as the foundation.

If your SEO is terrible, you're probably not going to perform well in AI either because your website still provides the primary source of information about your firm.

But when you start talking about GEO or AI optimization, you're looking beyond your website.

Now you're talking about attorney profiles.

Directories like Super Lawyers.

AVVO.

Publications.

Awards.

Speaking engagements.

Everything that validates you as an expert.

Your website explains what you do.

Those other platforms prove that you're actually good at it.

They're all connected.

But they're definitely different strategies.

Steve Williams (12:23)
I explain it like this.

SEO is like walking into a library.

You ask the librarian where to find information on a topic.

The librarian points you toward the right shelf.

You still have to find the book.

Read it.

And discover the answer yourself.

AI is the teacher.

Instead of pointing you toward the bookshelf, the teacher already knows where the answer is.

They've read the book.

They tell you exactly what you need to know.

That's a completely different experience.

People shouldn't panic because even if ChatGPT recommends an attorney, people are still going to visit that attorney's website.

They're still going to validate the recommendation.

That isn't changing.

But what is changing is how AI determines who deserves to be recommended.

Consistency.

Clarity.

Those matter more than ever.

Another big piece is reviews.

Google mainly cares about Google reviews.

AI doesn't.

AI looks at reviews everywhere.

AVVO.

Super Lawyers.

Justia.

Wherever people are talking about you.

Every review becomes another signal telling AI whether it should trust you.

Tyson Mutrux (13:44)
When you said attorneys now have to collect reviews on platforms besides Google...

I guarantee every lawyer listening just groaned.

Google reviews are already hard enough.

Now you're telling them they have to manage reviews somewhere else too.

Vaidas Cikotas (13:54)
Exactly.

Google reviews still matter.

They're important for Local Services Ads.

They're important for Google Maps.

They're important for local rankings.

But now people are leaving Google altogether.

ChatGPT, for example, frequently references Yelp.

Claude often relies heavily on AVVO, Super Lawyers, and attorney directories.

We'll actually open ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini at the same time, ask them all the exact same question, and compare the answers.

Sometimes they're similar.

Sometimes they're completely different.

What's really interesting is seeing where each AI platform pulls its information from.

We had one workers' compensation attorney ask why he wasn't showing up inside ChatGPT.

When we dug into it, we discovered ChatGPT was referencing an article from Expertise.com that listed the top workers' compensation attorneys in his market.

He wasn't included on that list.

That became one of the reasons AI recommended someone else.

So suddenly another website becomes incredibly important—even if you never intentionally focused on it.

Five years ago, hardly anyone cared about Expertise.com.

Now it's influencing AI recommendations.

That's how quickly things are changing.

Tyson Mutrux (17:42)
I remember getting emails saying, "Congratulations, you're ranked number one."

I ignored them because I thought they were nonsense.

But here's the problem.

Regular people don't know they're nonsense.

They see "Top Rated Attorney."

They assume it's legitimate.

Vaidas Cikotas (17:56)
Exactly.

Consumers don't know how those rankings are created.

They simply see an authority saying you're one of the best.

That's why it's so important to make sure your information is accurate everywhere.

If one of those directories lists practice areas you don't even handle anymore...

That's on you to fix.

Because AI isn't calling you to verify it.

It's simply reading what's available and making recommendations based on the information

Tyson Mutrux (18:32)
Let's say you were looking at one hundred law firm websites that weren't managed by Rise Up Media.

What are the same mistakes you see over and over again?

I'm talking about the big picture—not just SEO, but everything.

Vaidas Cikotas (19:10)
The first thing we usually notice is poor content.

Either there isn't enough of it...

It's outdated...

Or it simply isn't very good.

We'll open a firm's blog and see that the last article was published two years ago.

Think about the signal that sends.

Not just to Google, but to potential clients.

If you haven't updated your website in years, it looks like you aren't paying attention.

Google has actually changed its algorithms to reward fresh content.

Older articles should be updated every few months to keep them relevant.

You can't just publish something four years ago and expect it to continue performing forever.

We also see websites that look nice visually but aren't doing anything proactive.

Maybe they publish one blog every now and then.

Maybe social media links don't even work anymore.

Facebook icons that go nowhere.

LinkedIn profiles that haven't been updated.

Broken links.

Outdated attorney bios.

All of those little issues start adding up.

We run every website through an analysis process to identify those gaps.

Today there are even tools beginning to measure how visible your website is inside AI search.

For example, SEMrush now tracks things like AI visibility, mentions, and cited pages across ChatGPT, Gemini, and Google's AI Mode.

If those numbers are close to zero, it's usually a sign that your content isn't giving AI enough reason to reference you.

Steve Williams (22:15)
The first number we look at is something called an Authority Score.

That's Google's way of measuring how much trust your website has earned.

People assume it's a scale from one to one hundred.

In legal, that's not really how it works.

The highest authority score we've ever seen on a law firm website is around forty.

Anything over twenty-five is exceptional.

The higher that score becomes, the more traffic you're generally going to receive.

So how do you increase it?

Content.

I've been saying it all day...

Content is still king.

Google isn't really a technology company.

Neither is ChatGPT.

They're content companies.

They organize and evaluate information.

The second thing that increases authority is backlinks.

Anywhere you're allowed to place a link back to your website, do it.

Your state bar.

Professional organizations.

Directories.

Associations like Maximum Lawyer.

Every legitimate backlink increases your authority.

And that authority doesn't just help traditional SEO anymore.

It also helps your AI visibility.

Now, I have to laugh because marketing companies are already selling "$1,500 AI packages" promising you'll dominate ChatGPT.

Nobody can promise that.

The technology changes every week.

Three people can ask ChatGPT the exact same question and receive three different answers.

There simply isn't a guaranteed formula yet.

Tyson Mutrux (24:45)
Exactly.

Steve Williams (24:46)
The interesting thing is that most people completely trust ChatGPT.

If ChatGPT gives them an answer...

They believe it.

Even though those of us who use it every day know it can absolutely be wrong.

If you challenge it, it'll often admit it made a mistake.

But most consumers don't do that.

That's why trust has become such a big factor.

Tyson Mutrux (25:15)
Let's have a little fun.

Can all three of you pull up ChatGPT?

I think it'd be interesting if we all asked the exact same question and compared the answers.

People could actually see how different the recommendations are.

Vaidas Cikotas (25:38)
Sure.

Let's make it legal-related.

Steve Williams (25:49)
How about...

"Who is the best DUI lawyer in Dallas, Texas?"

Tyson Mutrux (25:53)
Perfect.

Let's all ask that.

Vaidas Cikotas (26:00)
All right.

I'm sharing my screen now.

Tyson Mutrux (26:03)
Most people probably wouldn't type "best DUI lawyer."

They'd naturally ask...

"Who is the best DUI lawyer in Dallas, Texas?"

Steve Williams (26:09)
Exactly.

Vaidas Cikotas (26:17)
Let's see what happens.

Tyson Mutrux (26:27)
Mine's still thinking.

Maybe I picked the wrong model.

I'm going to force it to answer.

Steve Williams (27:11)
I've got mine.

It's already different.

The first couple recommendations match...

Everything after that changes.

Tyson Mutrux (27:20)
I'll pull mine up too.

Vaidas Cikotas (27:22)
Before you do...

Notice something interesting.

One recommendation references AVVO.

Another references Expertise.com.

If I click this result...

Here it is.

"22 Best DUI Lawyers in Texas."

Published just a few days ago.

ChatGPT is using that article as one of its sources.

Those attorneys are showing up because another website validated them.

That's exactly what we've been talking about.

Steve Williams (27:49)
Mine even pulled a Forbes article.

Tyson Mutrux (28:02)
Here's what's fascinating.

One attorney is ranked first...

But only has a 3.4-star Yelp rating.

Meanwhile, there are attorneys with five-star ratings showing up underneath them.

So clearly the AI isn't just looking at star ratings.

It's weighing multiple signals together.

That's really interesting.

n it finds.

Steve Williams (28:32)
Go back to that Yelp result for a second.

I want to see something.

She only has five reviews and a 3.4 rating on Yelp, but she's still being featured.

Tyson Mutrux (28:38)
Exactly.

Then you've got these other firms with much better ratings.

That's what surprises me.

Vaidas Cikotas (29:04)
And that's because ChatGPT isn't looking at one single signal.

It's pulling information from multiple places.

Steve Williams (29:09)
Click over to that icon on the right.

Is that Wikipedia?

Tyson Mutrux (29:16)
It is.

That's interesting.

We've got Yelp, Wikipedia, and multiple attorney directories all influencing the results.

Vaidas Cikotas (29:36)
Let me show everyone something.

If you scroll all the way to the bottom, ChatGPT actually tells you where it's pulling its information from.

Here you can see AVVO.

You can see Expertise.com.

You can even see Reddit showing up as one of the sources.

So the recommendations aren't random.

They're being built from information that's scattered all across the internet.

Now let's switch models.

Let's ask Claude the exact same question.

Tyson Mutrux (30:28)
Good idea.

Vaidas Cikotas (30:31)
We'll use the exact same prompt.

"Who is the best DUI lawyer in Dallas, Texas?"

Let's see what changes.

Tyson Mutrux (30:52)
Make sure you show us your password while you're logging in.

Steve Williams (30:54)
(Laughs.)

Vaidas Cikotas (31:06)
All right...

Here we go.

Tyson Mutrux (31:26)
I actually got a really interesting result on mine.

I'm curious to compare.

Vaidas Cikotas (31:36)
Here's Claude.

Immediately you can see it's different.

We're getting maps.

Different attorneys.

Different rankings.

It looks like reviews are playing a larger role here.

The important point isn't necessarily who shows up.

The important point is that the results changed.

Tyson Mutrux (32:34)
Let me show mine.

Mine starts by saying there really isn't an objective way to name one single "best" lawyer.

Then it lists Warren Abrams...

Randall Eisenberg...

Buck Johnson...

Benson Varghese...

Tim Clancy...

Robert Gregg.

What's interesting is where it's getting those answers.

Mine is pulling heavily from Justia.

Then it's pulling directly from attorneys' own websites.

That's a completely different set of sources than what ChatGPT was using.

Vaidas Cikotas (33:35)
Now let's look at Gemini.

Tyson Mutrux (33:41)
Let's do it.

Vaidas Cikotas (33:43)
Give me just a second while I get it shared.

Steve Williams (34:16)
I've already got mine up if you need it.

Vaidas Cikotas (34:28)
I've got it.

Here we go.

Vaidas Cikotas (34:44)
This is Gemini.

Again...

Different attorneys.

Different ordering.

Different map results.

But what's really interesting is that Gemini is showing the sources at the bottom.

Most of them are actually coming directly from the attorneys' own websites.

That reinforces something we've been saying this entire conversation.

Your website still matters.

A lot.

Steve Williams (35:07)
Content is king.

Vaidas Cikotas (35:10)
Exactly.

Your website remains the foundation.

But depending on which AI model someone is using, there are dozens of other sources that can influence whether you appear.

One model references attorney directories.

Another references Expertise.com.

Another pulls directly from firm websites.

Another may include Reddit discussions.

You don't know what the next source is going to be.

That's why this is such a moving target.

There are firms benefiting from these recommendations today that probably don't even realize they're being cited.

Tyson Mutrux (36:05)
That's fascinating.

When I look at Gemini, I'm seeing many of the same attorneys...

But not all of them.

Some overlap.

Some completely different.

Again, there isn't one consistent answer.

Vaidas Cikotas (36:34)
Exactly.

Google is naturally going to rely more heavily on Google's own ecosystem.

ChatGPT has its own ecosystem.

Claude has another.

That's why trying to optimize for only one platform doesn't really make sense.

You have to build authority everywhere.

Tyson Mutrux (37:02)
All right.

Let's shift gears.

Let's talk about something practical.

If someone wants to make sure they're prepared for AI search...

What should they actually do?

Walk us through your GEO audit checklist.

Let's give everyone something they can implement.

Vaidas Cikotas (37:23)
Absolutely.

There are several things every law firm should look at...

Vaidas Cikotas (37:23)
There are a few things every law firm should look at, and honestly, some of them are really simple.

The first one is your homepage.

Can AI immediately understand what you do just by reading it?

Too many law firms have taglines like, "Fighting for Justice" or "Battling for What's Right."

Those sound nice, but they don't actually tell AI anything.

Instead, your homepage should clearly state exactly what you do and where you do it.

For example:

"Personal Injury Attorney Serving Dallas, Texas."

Be specific.

Think of your homepage like the cover of a book. It should immediately tell people—and AI—what the book is about.

The second thing is identity consistency.

Tyson, you joked earlier about how much of a pain this is, but it's incredibly important.

Your address...

Your phone number...

Your office suite...

Every listing needs to match.

If one directory says "Suite 200" and another says "#200," or one spells out "Avenue" while another abbreviates it to "Ave.," those tiny inconsistencies can create trust issues for AI.

Years ago we called this NAP consistency—Name, Address, Phone Number.

That still matters.

Your Google Business Profile.

The Better Business Bureau.

Attorney directories.

Everywhere your business appears online.

Vaidas Cikotas (38:55)
The next piece is your attorney profiles.

Too many law firm websites have nothing more than a headshot and a short paragraph about hobbies.

"John enjoys fishing and spending time with his family."

That's nice...

But it doesn't help AI understand why someone should hire John.

Instead, highlight credentials.

Speaking engagements.

Publications.

Awards.

Professional memberships.

Super Lawyers.

AVVO ratings.

Everything that reinforces expertise.

Then prove your experience.

Don't simply say you've recovered millions.

Be specific.

Talk about actual case types.

Trial experience.

Years practicing.

Verdicts.

Settlements.

Specificity matters.

The more detail you provide, the easier it is for AI to understand what you're actually known for.

Then comes reputation.

Reviews matter.

Not just Google reviews.

Reviews everywhere.

If you only have one Yelp review...

Go get five.

If you have no reviews on Justia or AVVO...

Start asking for them.

Those platforms are becoming validation signals.

AI wants proof that other people trust you.

Your website alone isn't enough anymore.

The AI models are looking across the internet asking,

"Can anyone else verify what this attorney claims?"

That's what separates recommendations today.

Tyson Mutrux (41:02)
And I'm better looking.

Does that count as a ranking factor?

Steve Williams (41:05)
I think everyone already knows that's true.

Vaidas Cikotas (41:06)
I'm sure there's some scale for that somewhere.

Steve Williams (41:09)
Let me add one thing.

Traditional SEO asks,

"Who has the best content?"

AI asks,

"Who can I trust?"

That's the biggest shift.

Trust comes from simplicity.

Consistency.

Clarity.

If I were running a law firm today, one of the first things I'd create is an FAQ section.

Take the ten questions clients ask you most often...

Answer every one of them.

Put those answers on your website.

People using Google are searching for information.

People using ChatGPT are asking questions.

Those are different behaviors.

I've spent enough time using ChatGPT that it knows a tremendous amount about me.

It knows what I care about.

It knows my interests.

When I ask for a recommendation...

I'm inclined to trust it.

That's exactly how your potential clients are beginning to behave.

Vaidas Cikotas (42:54)
And remember...

Those recommendations are still being built from your credentials, your website, and everything else we've been discussing.

You can spend more money than your competitors.

You can write more content.

You can outrank them in traditional search.

But you can't fake credibility.

You either have the experience...

Or you don't.

How many trials have you won?

How many verdicts?

How many years have you practiced?

Those are the things AI is beginning to value because they're difficult to manufacture.

That's why you can't simply buy your way to the top of AI recommendations.

Tyson Mutrux (43:36)
I love that.

Before we wrap up, how can people get in touch with you if they're interested in working with Rise Up Media?

Vaidas Cikotas (43:45)
We offer a completely free consultation.

No obligation.

We'll look under the hood of your website.

We'll show you what's working...

What's not...

What your competitors are doing...

And where you have opportunities to improve.

The easiest way to reach us is simply to call or text.

Steve Williams (44:20)
You can reach me directly at 412-713-2764.

Vaidas Cikotas (44:25)
Or you can call me at 704-953-7051.

We'll schedule a time, walk through everything together, and point you in the right direction.

Tyson Mutrux (44:39)
One thing I really appreciate about you guys is that everything is month-to-month.

That's a huge differentiator.

We've had so many members of the Maximum Lawyer community work with you, and they absolutely love what you do.

The reason I wanted to have this conversation is because it's exactly the kind of discussion we're going to be having at MaxLawCon.

Marketing is changing.

AI is changing.

Business operations are changing.

Everything is evolving incredibly fast.

Vaidas Cikotas (45:22)
Honestly, Tyson...

It's probably going to change again by next month.

Steve Williams (45:25)
Maybe tomorrow.

Tyson Mutrux (45:27)
You're probably right.

If you want to spend time with people like Steve and Vaidas—and really some of the smartest people in legal marketing, AI, operations, and law firm growth—make sure you check out MaxLawCon.

I really appreciate both of you taking the time to do this today.

There was a tremendous amount of value here.

Thank you both.

Vaidas Cikotas (45:52)
Let me leave everyone with one final thought.

If someone is pitching you an AI package...

Or promising guaranteed AI rankings...

Get a second opinion.

There are a lot of people selling AI services right now simply because AI is the buzzword.

Many of those packages don't have much substance behind them.

We're always happy to take a look and tell you whether something actually makes sense before you spend money on it.

I'd be extremely cautious about signing long-term contracts with anyone claiming they can guarantee you'll dominate the AI search results.

Nobody has that figured out.

It's changing constantly.

There are definitely things you can do to improve your visibility, and we've talked about many of them today.

But nobody can honestly promise guaranteed placement.

Tyson Mutrux (46:58)
That's great advice.

And just to confirm...

You still offer free website evaluations?

Vaidas Cikotas (47:12)
Absolutely.

We're always happy to help.

Tyson Mutrux (47:17)
Perfect.

Steve, Vaidas, thank you both again.

Really appreciate you coming on.