Watch the YouTube version of this episode HERE

What if the biggest advantage your law firm has in the AI era isn’t better technology, but being more human?

In this episode of the Maximum Lawyer Podcast, Tyson Mutrux is joined by Ryan Webber for a conversation about what an AI-powered law firm can realistically look like today. They explore where AI can eliminate tedious behind-the-scenes work, why fully AI-native firms may not be as close as some people claim, and how automation can actually create more room for meaningful client experiences.

Tyson and Ryan also dig into the growing opportunity for law firms to stand out through personal branding, memorable in-person experiences, thoughtful gestures, and the kind of genuine connection AI can’t replicate.

The goal isn’t to choose between AI and people. It’s to use AI where it makes sense so you have more time for the work only humans can do.

What You’ll Learn

• Why Tyson believes fully AI-native law firms still aren’t realistic for most practice areas.
• How Ryan sees AI potentially handling up to 80% of the behind-the-scenes work in a law firm.
• Why AI-generated marketing still needs a human editor to make it sound and feel like you.
• How going more “analog” could become a competitive advantage as firms become increasingly digital.
• Why personal branding can help lawyers become the person clients actively seek out instead of relying entirely on SEO.
• How small, memorable touches can create stronger relationships with clients, employees, and prospects.
• Why the real opportunity may be using AI to eliminate mundane work so your team can spend more time creating human experiences.
• How law firms can use automation on the back end while making the front-end client experience even more personal.

Timestamps

00:00 — Can a law firm really become completely AI-native?
02:42 — Could AI handle 80% of the work behind the scenes?
03:43 — Why AI-generated marketing still needs a human touch
05:02 — How much of the general public is actually using AI?
09:21 — The “analog” opportunity law firms may be overlooking
10:19 — Why personalized gifts can outperform traditional marketing
12:05 — Creating memorable experiences for employees
14:23 — Can AI actually capture someone’s personal brand?
17:23 — Building a brand people search for instead of relying on SEO
21:11 — Why people still crave real-world, human interaction
21:55 — Using AI to eliminate mundane work and create more time for people
24:15 — AI on the back end, human connection on the front end
25:30 — Turning an ordinary law firm visit into an experience

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Full Transcript: 

Tyson Mutrux (00:00)
Welcome back to Maximum Lawyer Live.

What I want to talk about today is something I think is really interesting because there’s been a lot of talk about completely AI-native law firms. People are saying they’re doing them.

I don’t think they’re fully possible right now.

Unless you have a practice that is 100% transactional, where everything happens remotely online, I just don’t think we’re there yet.

I’ll give you an example.

I had a client in the office yesterday who was clearly on some drugs. He was sweating profusely, and at one point he became completely unresponsive.

What does AI do in that situation?

We had to call the paramedics. They had to come get him.

There are things like that that are going to make our jobs somewhat secure.

But I’ve got my buddy Ryan Webber joining me, so let’s bring him on and talk about this a little bit.

Ryan, what’s up, dude? How are you doing?

Ryan Webber (01:41)
What’s going on?

I’m just getting back from vacation. We were gone for four days, so it’s weird coming back.

Tyson Mutrux (01:48)
What did you all do? Where’d you go?

Ryan Webber (01:52)
We just went to the mountains.

But I don’t vacation very well. So I get back and I’m like, well, I’m just going to keep procrastinating. Why start working?

Tyson’s on here. Let’s hang out.

Tyson Mutrux (02:05)
Let’s do it.

I’m curious what your thoughts are on this.

We’ve been prepping for MaxLawCon because the AI workshop is going to be on day two, and it’s going to be freaking amazing. If people don’t have their tickets, they need to get them because day two alone is going to be worth it.

But with what you all do, do you think you could make it completely AI-native?

Basically, no human interaction. Do you think that’s possible?

Ryan Webber (02:42)
No.

We still have to do physical signings with estate planning and real estate closings.

But I think probably 80% of the behind-the-scenes work could be done with AI.

Then the other 20% becomes managing the robots.

At some point, I think our best paralegals are going to become robot managers. They’re going to be making sure everything is being done correctly.

Tyson Mutrux (03:12)
Yeah, I completely agree with that.

There’s been so much talk about AI-native law firms, and you know me. I’m one of the biggest proponents of AI. I think it’s a great thing, and it’s streamlining a lot for us.

But a lot of this talk about completely AI-native firms is bullcrap.

I think it’s people talking more than anything else.

Ryan Webber (03:43)
I feel the same way about marketing.

A lot of people are trying to use Claude to edit all their videos, completely come up with their hooks, write their emails, and do everything else.

And while it’s good, the people who still physically write their emails are better.

AI gets you about 80% of the way there, and then you have to become an extreme editor to actually make it sound like you.

I think a lot of the ideas can start with AI.

It’s the same thing with law. AI becomes your first-year associate giving you the draft. Then you go in and make it really good.

A lot of people are just putting out whatever AI gives them, and people don’t like that.

Unfortunately, lawyers are already not very well-liked.

People just don’t like lawyers for some reason.

AI is kind of the same way.

There are a lot of early adopters who love it, but if you ask the general public, they don’t necessarily like AI. They don’t want everything to be AI.

They want to talk to a human. They want to interact with a human.

Tyson Mutrux (05:02)
Yeah.

I think there’s a really large portion of the population that doesn’t use AI at all, or they’re using it without even realizing they’re using it.

Over the holidays, I was talking with my family.

My family is very blue-collar.

AI is not something we talk about because they don’t really use it.

My dad’s a mechanic. He’s retired now, but he wasn’t sitting there using AI agents.

Ryan Webber (05:49)
My dad is retiring in January. Same thing.

Tyson Mutrux (05:51)
Exactly.

I do think there’s a place for AI with mechanics because vehicles are becoming computerized systems.

At some point, especially as more cars become like Teslas, AI is going to be used more and more.

You’ve got a Rivian, right?

Ryan Webber (06:17)
I have a Rivian. I’m close. It’s like a step down.

Tyson Mutrux (06:21)
Our vehicles are basically computers.

There’s already AI being used in Teslas, and I assume Rivian is using it too.

Even with regular internal-combustion-engine vehicles, mechanics are plugging them into computers to diagnose problems now.

So AI is going to work its way into that.

But most people still aren’t using it in the way we are. They’re not using AI agents.

Ryan Webber (06:58)
Have you seen the Slate?

Tyson Mutrux (07:00)
The Slate?

Ryan Webber (07:03)
The truck.

Tyson Mutrux (07:04)
Yeah, yeah. The truck.

Ryan Webber (07:07)
That reminds me of what you’re talking about with mechanics.

It’s basically this boxy electric truck that everybody can get, and then you customize it.

They’re trying to get the lowest price with the maximum capacity they can.

Tyson Mutrux (07:23)
It’s such an interesting vehicle.

The base model is what, around $20,000?

Ryan Webber (07:32)
Something like that. $24,950.

Tyson Mutrux (07:36)
Okay, $24,950.

And then you can customize everything.

You can change the colors, the seat configurations, all of it.

It’s basically like a Lego set.

You can turn it into an SUV. You can make it a truck. There are all these different options.

I think it’s a really cool idea.

Would you buy one?

Ryan Webber (08:07)
Probably.

Tyson Mutrux (08:09)
Really?

For $24,000, that is a steal.

Ryan Webber (08:14)
Why not?

It’s tiny, and I wouldn’t feel bad if I had to haul things around in it.

If it’s raining outside, I’d drive that. I’m not going to worry about ruining anything.

Tyson Mutrux (08:30)
I think a lot of people assume they’re going to get you on the modifications.

But the CEO has said that’s not really the idea.

The modifications are supposed to be pretty inexpensive compared to what regular vehicle parts cost.

That’s pretty cool.

Ryan Webber (09:21)
I was listening to a podcast about it, and I think the most expensive version you can build is around $40,000.

That’s with everything added to it.

They’re intentionally trying to keep the whole thing super simple and basic.

And it makes me wonder if there’s something there for law firms.

Everyone is so digital now. I’m extremely digital.

But I think there’s an analog play here.

What is the analog play that combats AI?

I love using AI on the back end to optimize the efficiency of a law firm.

But on the front end, there’s an analog opportunity that could make you stand out from everybody else because the big firms don’t want to touch analog.

Tyson Mutrux (10:02)
Do you have any ideas?

Ryan Webber (10:08)
I was listening to the My First Million podcast, which I love.

Second favorite podcast behind the Maximum Lawyer Podcast, of course.

Tyson Mutrux (10:14)
Of course.

My First Million is a great podcast.

Ryan Webber (10:19)
They were talking about Hampton, which is a small-group community for entrepreneurs running larger businesses.

One of the best things they did was hire someone to identify around 100 potential members who would be great fits for Hampton.

Then they customized a gift for every single person.

They would research the person, look through their social media, find something meaningful to them, and send them a personalized gift with a handwritten card.

Maybe someone talks about spending time at the lake, so you send them something related to that.

You mentioned Tesla, so maybe they send you a Tesla accessory.

Something that actually means something to that person.

Usually, they were spending less than $100.

And they said it produced the highest ROI of almost anything they were doing.

They’re spending huge amounts on advertising, podcasts, and everything else.

But this physical, memorable thing had the highest ROI.

Tyson Mutrux (11:28)
That’s interesting because we do something very similar with our employees.

Let’s say we’re in the middle of a huddle and somebody says something memorable.

I have an Etsy store where I can make different things, so I’ll go in and create something based on what they said and send it to them.

They love it.

They’ll have the mugs sitting there on camera all the time.

It might be a mug, T-shirt, hoodie, or hat.

I really like that idea because it’s something you can actually touch.

Ryan Webber (12:05)
We do that for our employees too.

We make merch instead of selling merch.

I try to make cool stuff that I would actually wear, and then we give it to the employees.

It’s one of the perks of working here.

Every two or three months, you’re going to get a cool shirt, hat, or something else.

And it’s not crappy promotional stuff. It’s stuff I actually want to wear.

Tyson Mutrux (12:26)
You’re wearing one of those cool hats now.

I’ve always thought that was a really cool hat.

You always have really cool swag.

You and Brooks.

Brooks does too.

Ryan Webber (12:34)
Brooks’ branding is my favorite.

I basically ripped it off for my website.

It’s pretty much a carbon copy because I looked at his branding and thought, this is awesome. This is exactly what I want.

Tyson Mutrux (12:46)
Hold on. Let’s look at this.

WebberMarketing.com, right?

Ryan Webber (12:49)
Yep.

Same colors. Same fonts.

Tyson Mutrux (12:51)
The colors are different though, right?

Ryan Webber (13:01)
No.

Tyson Mutrux (13:03)
I thought his new brand was black and white.

Ryan Webber (13:06)
It’s a dark green and cream, and then orange is the accent.

Tyson Mutrux (13:11)
Is it Derrick Law Office?

Ryan Webber (13:15)
Derrick Law Office dot com.

You were right.

Tyson Mutrux (13:29)
There we go.

Okay, I see the green. There’s the orange.

I love his logo. I think that’s a really cool logo.

Ryan Webber (13:47)
He got that from a really expensive designer in Charleston.

When Brooks was in Charleston, he liked the guy and liked his work.

Brooks basically said, “I’ll never tell my wife how much I spent on this logo package, but I’ll tell you.”

When he told me the number, I said, that is way too much money.

But it’s so good.

He also has probably 15 or 20 little ancillary logos that most people have never even seen.

I have all of them, and they’re super cool.

He even has beer cans designed as Brooks Derrick Law Office.

Tyson Mutrux (14:23)
That’s cool.

Let’s stay on this for a second because it ties back into this conversation about AI-native law firms.

Do you think AI could capture Brooks the way this website has captured Brooks?

Brooks is such a genuine human being.

The website, the photographs, everything about it feels like him.

I just think that’s really hard for AI to capture.

Ryan Webber (14:55)
I actually took those photos.

Both of them.

Tyson Mutrux (14:59)
Then the photographer was amazing.

It’s just really hard for AI to capture that.

Ryan Webber (15:10)
You see me?

Tyson Mutrux (15:11)
There he is.

Ryan Webber (15:12)
The guy settling his case over there?

Tyson Mutrux (15:14)
No, this is Jeremy Webber.

Look at this.

This is so Brooks.

It’s really good.

Ryan Webber (15:22)
I was so excited to take these because I was like, dude, we’re just going to make you look cool.

Which he already is, so it’s not very hard.

Tyson Mutrux (15:30)
Explain this to someone who is not a photographer.

How do you capture that?

It’s not just the picture.

He’s standing there. He’s a good-looking guy. He’s dressed well. He’s got this cool, rustic look.

But there’s a certain color and feel to the photos.

Is there a filter or something?

Ryan Webber (15:56)
It’s a camera, Tyson.

I don’t have a filter.

Tyson Mutrux (16:01)
I don’t know how any of this stuff works.

Ryan Webber (16:03)
When you’re using an actual camera, you shoot in RAW.

That gives you much more color depth.

So I have 16-bit color depth, which means I can adjust the colors a ton.

Then you ask yourself, what is this person’s style?

Brooks likes photography himself.

He’s very filmic. Kind of ’80s, ’90s, rugged, almost blue-collar.

He’s a very down-to-earth guy.

So we try to edit the photos in a way that matches that.

It also helps that Brooks looks the way he does.

I’ll send stuff to one of my friends who also works in video and say, “Look what we just did.”

And he’ll say, “Is this the ridiculously good-looking lawyer guy?”

I’m like, sure is.

Tyson Mutrux (16:57)
This has turned into the Brooks show.

I can’t wait for him to listen to this and hear us bragging about how good-looking he is.

Ryan Webber (17:06)
He’s going to send it to his wife and say, “Here you go.”

Tyson Mutrux (17:09)
As he should.

Ryan Webber (17:23)
All of the website and photography is meant to capture Brooks and who he actually is.

That’s how he stands out against the big firms in Charleston and Columbia that he competes with.

He’s your local, hometown attorney.

That’s what we want it to feel like.

We don’t need him walking around in front of a courthouse pretending to be some big-city lawyer.

He’s photographed in front of his old Toyota. That’s who he is. That’s what people around town know him for.

And it works really well.

I was talking with him a couple months ago.

Two years ago, most of his traffic was probably coming through his website, Google reviews, and things like that.

Now it has shifted.

A majority of his business is coming through what I call personal branding.

People are actively searching for him.

He’s getting more referrals and more people specifically seeking him out instead of finding him through SEO.

And he likes that better.

He’s built his name instead of hoping the Google gods put him in front of the right person.

Tyson Mutrux (18:39)
You were talking about analog earlier.

You just bought a Jeep, right?

What’s the story with the Jeep?

Ryan Webber (18:48)
The person doing the paperwork didn’t notarize the title correctly.

It was a consignment vehicle, which is pretty common with vintage vehicles.

The seller is in Kentucky.

They did a DocuSign but didn’t do electronic notarization correctly. Then the paperwork was printed and notarized afterward.

I’m a notary, so I knew that wasn’t right.

But I didn’t catch it when I bought it because I assumed someone who does this all day knew how to do it correctly.

I took the paperwork in to register the vehicle, and they told me it was wrong.

So I called the dealership.

Now everything had to be physically sent back to the woman who sold the Jeep in Kentucky.

It’s been almost three weeks, and I still haven’t been able to register it.

I’m not happy about it.

Tyson Mutrux (19:51)
I feel your pain.

We had something similar happen years ago.

We bought a vehicle, and the dealership put the wrong finance company on the paperwork.

Nobody caught it.

It was all filed with the state, and then we couldn’t properly register the vehicle.

Ryan Webber (20:17)
They still can’t spell my LLC correctly because apparently no one knows how to spell the word “forty.”

Tyson Mutrux (20:29)
Because they had put the wrong finance company on our paperwork, we couldn’t get the vehicle registered.

I got pulled over so many times because my plates were expired and there was nothing I could do about it.

It was a disaster.

Eventually, I took this massive packet of everything I had collected and mailed the whole thing to the state.

Tags eventually showed up in the mail.

Someone must have looked at the packet and thought, poor guy. Just give him the tags.

Ryan Webber (20:57)
I don’t even have a tag.

If I had some random plates lying around, I’d probably throw them on there because I’m only driving the thing three miles around town.

Tyson Mutrux (21:11)
Going back to the analog thing, I do think there’s this desire for people to be around each other.

They want to be in person.

They want to touch things.

I think you’re right about that.

At the same time, I’ll admit I have a strong desire to go AI-native.

I would love to do it.

But there’s this other side of me that wants to use all of that technology specifically so I can do more things in real life.

I feel like I’m getting pulled in two different directions.

Ryan Webber (21:55)
I feel the exact same way.

My goal is to maximize the efficiency of the mundane work.

If AI could correctly edit videos for me and I never had to edit another video again, or even if I only had to spend 10% of the time doing it, I would be so happy.

But what would I do with that extra time?

I’d spend more time with people.

I’d do more physical things.

There’s nothing more exciting to me than buying someone dinner or randomly getting someone a present when there’s absolutely no reason you should be buying them a present.

We have a neighbor who’s a single mom with two kids. We love them. We hang out with them all the time.

I love being able to say, “Hey, I bought you this.”

Tyson Mutrux (22:41)
Amy had a great idea a few weeks ago.

We were at the store and she said, “Let’s get these friends some flowers.”

So we bought flowers for a couple we go out to dinner with regularly.

We didn’t even stop to say hi.

We dropped them on the doorstep, left, and texted them, “Hey, check your doorstep.”

It was great.

I completely understand what you mean.

Ryan Webber (23:09)
We did something similar at a restaurant a couple months ago.

We went out just to have dessert.

All the tables were full, so we sat at a six-person table with another couple.

It was me, my wife, and our four-year-old daughter.

The other couple was eating dinner, and we could hear them talking about the desserts.

They were saying, “That sounds good. Maybe we should get that.”

When we ordered ours, I told the waitress, whatever they want for dessert, bring it to them and put it on our bill.

So the waitress brought them dessert.

They said, “We didn’t order this.”

And I said, “No, you’re getting dessert.”

That kind of stuff is the coolest thing ever to me.

That’s what I like spending money on.

And if we create more efficiency in the office, we can do more things like that.

Tyson Mutrux (24:02)
I completely agree.

But that brings us back to the question.

Does it actually make sense to go completely AI-native if people still want these interactions?

Ryan Webber (24:15)
I think you use AI on the back end where human connection isn’t necessary.

Take real estate closings.

There are a ton of things that need to happen that don’t require a human connection.

Someone just needs the HOA dues checked.

There doesn’t need to be a person manually doing that.

Let AI handle those things.

Then we can make the actual closing experience in the office way better.

Electronic closings are coming to North Carolina, and we’re one of the slower states to adopt them.

But most of our clients still want to come in and sign in person.

So we were talking while we were in the mountains and said, why don’t we build a coffee cart at the office?

When people come in, they can make really good coffee.

We could have recipes sitting there.

Before they even walk into our office, there’s this whole coffee setup.

It becomes a perk for our staff too.

We could have actual to-go cups with logos, but instead of putting the law firm logo on them, we’d create an entirely separate coffee brand.

It would create this little moment that makes going to a law firm more analog and more interesting.

Tyson Mutrux (25:30)
I like that idea.

It sounds like a mess waiting to happen, but you’ll have a process for cleaning it up.

It’ll be fine.

Ryan Webber (25:39)
We have around 17 people working in the office.

Every single one of them drinks coffee.

So it would also be a massive employee perk to have really good coffee in the office.

Tyson Mutrux (25:52)
You have to make it an espresso machine though.

You can’t go cheap on it.

Ryan Webber (25:59)
No.

It’ll probably turn into a $5,000 endeavor by the time we do the cart, espresso machine, nugget ice maker, and everything else.

Tyson Mutrux (26:14)
Nugget ice is an absolute necessity.

We bought an ice maker specifically for nugget ice.

You’ve either got to have one of those or go to Sonic and buy it.

All right, man.

I better run. I’ve got a huddle in a few minutes.

Any last words?

Ryan Webber (26:34)
I have no last words.

I was just excited to see your face and procrastinate another 30 minutes after vacation.

I appreciate you delaying my work.

Tyson Mutrux (26:43)
You’re welcome.

Thanks for joining me.

Hopefully you’re not in trouble with Tiffany because you were supposed to be working.

I’ll talk to you later.

See you, man.