A Frank Discussion About Vendors That Charge Too Much

Watch the YouTube version of this episode HERE

Are you struggling with vendors who are not holding up their end of the bargain? In this episode of the Maximum Lawyer podcast, Becca Eberhardt, CEO of Maximum Lawyer, and co-host Tyson Mutrux discuss the challenges law firm owners face with vendors. Sparked by a guild member's post, they delve into frustrations over vendors failing to deliver on promises. 

Vendors can be a pain for any business owner, especially if agreements are not held up on their end. This can really cause issues for companies, especially for those that rely on vendors for systems, like CRMs. Tyson and Becca chat about the issues vendors cause for law firms, such as creating problematic products that they think will lead to issues in retention. Becca stresses the idea that client and employee retention is kept with the use of exceptional products and vendors need to be accountable as it relates to that.

Becca provides listeners with some tips when dealing with vendors. One tip is to dedicate time to communicating and negotiating with vendors. It is easy to just give in to the first vendor you speak to, who might be selling you a product at a great price. But, this can cause issues when you don't do enough research and end up with a bad product. Ensure to take your time and understand all aspects of a vendor before signing a contract!

Listen in to learn more!

Episode Highlights:

• 02:13 Personal Experiences with Vendors 
• 09:39 Vendor Accountability and Service Quality
• 14:08 Finding Non-Industry Specific Solutions 
• 16:50 Contract Models in Vendor Relationships 
• 20:00 Developing a New Solution 
• 23:30 Understanding Negotiation Power 

Resources:

• Join the Guild Membership
• Subscribe to the Maximum Lawyer YouTube Channel
• Follow us on Instagram
• Join the Facebook Group
• Follow the Facebook Page
• Follow us on LinkedIn

Transcripts: A Frank Discussion About Vendors That Charge Too Much

Tyson Mutrux 00:00:02 This is maximum lawyer with your host, Tyson Matrix.

Becca Eberhart 00:00:11 Hey, everybody, this is Becca Eberhardt, CEO at Maximum Lawyer. And today I am here in Scottsdale with Tyson, and we are gearing up for the Q one mastermind here. And today is Wednesday. So we're doing a batch recording of podcasts before the mastermind. And we had a guest that had to cancel last minute. So we're going to do a little impromptu episode here now. Yeah, it was exciting.

Tyson Mutrux 00:00:34 I was really excited about that guest. But this is fun because we've not I've not gotten you on camera like recording a podcast yet. Right? At all. I mean, back.

Becca Eberhart 00:00:43 In the beginning, we did virtual.

Tyson Mutrux 00:00:45 Oh, yeah, we did that a long time ago. Years? Yeah, yeah, I had to almost kick you or I drag you kicking and screaming to do this. Yeah, a little bit, a little bit.

Becca Eberhart 00:00:54 I had other really great ideas.

Tyson Mutrux 00:00:55 You did? Yeah. It didn't work out.

Tyson Mutrux 00:00:57 Yeah. Unfortunately the guest she was not. She's not. well. Well, she did the right thing, and she. But we'll be able to make it that one up. But this. Is this gonna be a good one? I like your idea for. This is fantastic. Yeah, yeah. So let's let's tell the people what it's about. Okay?

Becca Eberhart 00:01:10 So recently we had a post that sparked some conversation within the guild and then also within the team maximum layer two. So I'm going to read what the initial post was that sparked this conversation. And then we can kind of dive into our thoughts on it. So this guild member said does this happen to anyone else? I reach out to a vendor to build something, set something up for me. It could be a marketing campaign, a software build out, etc. and then he says, hey, I need to do X, Y, and Z because here are my goals. Can you do this? And the vendor will say, sure, we can do it.

Becca Eberhart 00:01:42 Here's an estimate. He says, cool, here's the money dot dot dot. A month later, the vendor will demo the solution and he says, okay, but what about x, y, and Z that I had mentioned before? The vendor says, yeah, our solutions can't do that, not possible with our tech or the restrictions in place. And then he says he's doing silently about spending time and money on something that doesn't do what he needed. And he says that this has happened a few times, and he ultimately usually just abandons what he's doing and what he had already paid for.

Tyson Mutrux 00:02:13 Yeah. And that had some had some interesting comments. I covered it on the Guild morning show last Saturday. I'm going to be a little nicer to the vendors that I mentioned. Okay, in the guild, I won't mention them here, but my frustration is the same because I've had frustrations with vendors. I mean, like paid tens of thousands of dollars up front and then not get the things that they say that they're going to give.

Tyson Mutrux 00:02:39 Like you've had some experience, like outside of the legal industry, like have you seen anything like this?

Becca Eberhart 00:02:45 Not this often. No. Which is what floored me. And when I first read this post, I did send you quite a few voice messages, and we had kind of talked back and forth, which I.

Tyson Mutrux 00:02:56 Played on the, the which are we going to do that for the listeners for this? It's is great.

Becca Eberhart 00:03:01 You know what? Why not? Actually, that might be better. Okay, instead of me summarizing, we're just gonna. We're gonna cut in my voice message into this so that you guys can hear my in the moment feelings. I was pretty riled up, and I genuinely I genuinely care about our business owners in the guild and the fact that this is happening to multiple of them on multiple occasions. It's happened to you. I just think that that's not something that we should all stand for. And then now we're at a point where, what can we do about it? We meaning maximum lawyer, but also as an industry in general, I don't think it's something that can continue and we need to figure out how to fix that.

Becca Eberhart 00:03:38 Okay. I'm also pretty worked up about this topic, mostly because when I saw the post in the guild that I had sent you and that a bunch of people had commented on, I immediately was like irritated for everyone. Everyone commenting on there. Like in my head, I just had that. There's just no reason that a business owner doing business with another business owner should ever be treated like that, lied to like that, pay for things that they're actually never going to get. And the person knew that from the get go. I'm like actually, like, I don't know, flabbergasted by the whole thing. So initially I was like, okay, what can we do for our people about this topic? And as of yesterday, I was thinking like, do we do a train on like negotiation? Do we figure out like a script where our people are like, you know, here's what you're going to offer me. Here's how we're going to meet in the middle. I'm not giving you all of the money up front, etc., etc. I'm like, there has to be something our people can do.

Becca Eberhart 00:04:40 You know, even I think it was Steven Lefkowitz said. Like he's sued multiple people to get his money back. When this has happened, it shouldn't have to go that far, not in B2B.

Tyson Mutrux 00:04:51 Yes. So what was funny is you were worked up. It was like really worked up. And it was a barrage of voice memos. Right. But you had also brought up something, I don't know 20 minutes ago from like our meeting notes. Which is funny because. Did you remember that? I did okay.

Becca Eberhart 00:05:08 That's how much I actually care about this topic. And I think that it's that wrong. And I think that it comes up this often. So when I was thinking of this topic, I also remembered in the notes for future episodes, I had written this down, and this has to come from like over a year ago. So I do find it ironic how much this topic just keeps coming back up. And so these were just generalized notes. I had wrote that vendors and the products and customer service that they offer law firms.

Becca Eberhart 00:05:38 Why does it seem so bad? What can we do about it? You had said so. This was on a team call and I had made notes on it. Tyson had said that law firm owners have to make the worst clients. And I had a instant reaction to your comment because I actually thought the complete opposite. And I told you and Jim, I had said that I had actually never seen vendors seem to put in so little effort to retain customers. And I believe that good customer service goes a long way. And I think that I see a lot in this industry, meaning vendors that serve law firm owners, trapping them into contracts as a way to create retention in their own business. And I think that we're at a time where retention is earned by providing exceptional products and services, and that's the only contract that should exist.

Tyson Mutrux 00:06:26 Sure. And I will say I must I might be wrong about it. I mean, I think from its from my perspective as a lawyer that we, we ask a bunch of questions like, we like we also have like the I just in part of like I imagine some lawyers being like, well, I'll just sue you like, you know, like like, you know what I mean? Like that kind of a thing where we've got to be the type of client that are customer that is like a little bit more demanding.

Tyson Mutrux 00:06:51 It's just it's got to be I. And maybe I'm wrong about that.

Becca Eberhart 00:06:54 Okay. So how is this working out then? You feel like you are a customer who is more demanding and we're seeing our people get a lesser service. Yeah. How can both things be true at the same time?

Tyson Mutrux 00:07:07 And what it is is that I think, you know what? Maybe we don't expect more. Maybe we just expect them to deliver what they say they're going to deliver. Or maybe that's what it is. Maybe that's what bothered me so much about is like, and then maybe it may be a history of us getting burned or not us, but like generally lawyers getting burned by it, that maybe that is why maybe I've been brainwashed to think that we're just difficult clients and maybe we're not. I don't know, maybe we're not. You have now how many years experience with the Guild? How long?

Becca Eberhart 00:07:34 Well, we launched that in 2020. Okay. So.

Tyson Mutrux 00:07:37 So for years. Yeah. You've dealt with a bunch of lawyers.

Tyson Mutrux 00:07:41 Yeah. Do you find like my, my thinking was that maybe that we are just lawyers were difficult to deal with. Have you found that. No. Okay. Well then then or maybe the guild is maybe a special breed. I don't know. And I do find that they kind of are. They think they are different differently.

Becca Eberhart 00:07:57 In the way that they are. I feel like and I don't know if they use this terminology themselves, but I identify them as legal entrepreneurs where I think that other people, maybe even the people who target them, just think of them as lawyers. And I think that those are two different people.

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:13 I think we should start using legal entrepreneurs, I like that.

Becca Eberhart 00:08:16 I love it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:16 Okay. So we're not we're not going to use law firm owners, legal entrepreneurs. Yeah. Okay. This is a this is an exclusive. Okay. Yeah. good. So I mean, maybe I'm wrong with it when I said that as long as I was like, maybe who knows what my mindset was at the time.

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:29 I will say when I said that, that was whenever I was dealing with that one vendor, that I had paid a lot of money up front that had told us, like we sat and I talked about this in the guilt show. So if anyone that's in the guild, you can skip forward about 30s. But we set Kashif and I, we we sat and talked to them. We went through all of our requirements. We not only sat with their sales people because we ran it by the salespeople. They said, well, we need to talk to the dev department. And then we sat down with the dev department and we went through everything, told them all of our specifications. We were very clear about it. And then we get so we pay them upfront and like upfront. That was a mistake. From now on I will not do that. I'm not going to pay you for an entire year upfront. That's just a no. That was a bad move. But I got a better deal.

Tyson Mutrux 00:09:15 That's why I did it. But. And then? Then they come to us a month later and say, we can't do any of this stuff and we're not giving your money back. It's like, okay. And I said who it was, if you want to join the guild, you'd find out who I'm talking about, but I'm not going to I won't, I won't go that far. It's very frustrating. And I the person that posted this, we're not going to mention who posted it, but like it is a common it seems to be a common thing based on what comments we get in the big group.

Becca Eberhart 00:09:39 There are a lot of comments on this post in the guild that I had just read, and they were all yes, I have been through that. Yes, I've had the same thing. Yes, I have done that multiple times. Someone said that they have sued to get their money back on numerous occasions and I like I said, I just there there has to be something different here, I do.

Becca Eberhart 00:10:00 You answered a question that I was going to ask. I was actually going to ask you because other members are saying this to why're you guys paying so much up front? And but you had said that what they're doing is they're offering you a better deal. So is that a situation where they're saying, hey, you can pay us month to month, it would have been X amount, or you can pay us for the first year, and we're giving you a 10% discount. Is that what happened.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:23 I don't I don't think so. With that company, I actually don't think there was ever the option of paying month to month. There could be a variety of reasons. They may offer a month, a month option, I'm sure actually know that, you know, when they come, they probably do. Yeah. But I do know based on what other people pay in that service per month, that or for the year that they pay that, I did get a much better deal. I mean, I got I got a much better deal.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:48 And it could have been about because of my position with Maxwell, too, I don't know, but I know I got a pretty good deal generally, but.

Becca Eberhart 00:10:56 That theoretically would have been a good deal. Yeah. And then it ultimately was.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:59 Just not undoubtedly. I could obviously sue to get that money back. I just don't have. I just don't have the the bandwidth for that. I just don't really care that much about it to do that. So yeah.

Becca Eberhart 00:11:11 Have you ever thought through the mindset of these other business owners who are vendors serving legal entrepreneurs where it's a lot harder to get the new sale right? We all know that in any business it doesn't matter what it is. So why do you think they put so much time and effort into just getting that first sale, instead of just getting someone in and then wowing them and keeping them? And then they could have got if you would have paid them the one time fee. Was there ongoing fees that you would have been paying them?

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:38 Okay, so to your first point, yeah, I think they do it because they charge us so much more than they would a non-lawyer, like if this were I mean, you can use I'll.

Becca Eberhart 00:11:47 Use they serve non-lawyers as well. Or do they just are you the ideal client?

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:51 I think that we're the ideal client and they can get away with it because we they know we'll pay it. I'll take, I'll use let's use Zoho as an example. Okay. Look at Zoho pricing versus let's say, any other case management system on the market, I'll use I'll use Clio to pick on Clio because they're the biggest not that close has a bad product. I'm just saying you compare the two. I will tell you, Zoho, what they offer it is way more they way offer way more than what Clio does and when it comes to their product, but they're a fraction of what Clio charges, and it's because they can get away with charging lawyers more money.

Becca Eberhart 00:12:26 And Zoho does not advertise just to know. Got it. So that's the difference there.

Tyson Mutrux 00:12:31 And their CEO is someone that wants to make it available to the masses. And that's part of the reason why they want to. They really believe in small businesses.

Tyson Mutrux 00:12:40 They really want to take care of them, and that's why they do it. Now there is a there is a cost to that. And I and I was talking to Scott Rose about this the other day. There is a cost because with Zoho, when they roll out a new feature sometimes, or if they roll out a new software, there is kind of an understanding that there is. You're pretty much in beta testing, even though they released it, and they will improve it and they'll get it to a really great product, but sometimes it does. There is some lag time when it comes to that, so that's sort of the trade off. But honestly, I would rather have that than getting gouged all the freaking time when it comes to the monthly cost. And like that's across the board. That's on everything. That's books like. And I won't pick on any of the books, but you name the book that was written by a lawyer on like trial skills or anything. Yeah, 150 bucks, you know what I mean? Like, if it's a non-lawyer, that's a 20 or $30 book, things like that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:34 Okay.

Becca Eberhart 00:13:34 When you decided to go with Zoho, is this the first time that you've gone with like a software that wasn't marketed specifically to you? How did you find a software? I feel like our people typically are looking for softwares, services, different things that are marketed directly to them and only, you know, specialized because then they'll feel like, you know, they specialize in us, they know us better. They're going to serve us better. But you found something that wasn't targeted to you and you were comfortable enough to commit to it, even though you knew it wasn't specific to your industry.

Tyson Mutrux 00:14:08 Let's say three things. So one is we we met with a couple of companies about building something. We had all of our things that we needed, and we got halfway through the list of needs. And the first vendor said they stopped me in there. I'm glad they did. They said, listen, the features that you want right now. And by the way, like we were having like it was not the list was pretty long.

Tyson Mutrux 00:14:30 We're about about 250,000 bucks. should we keep talking or should we kind of stop? And I said, I think we should stop because I wasn't willing to put that much money into a product that I wasn't going to sell. Like this wasn't something I was going to say, you know? So I was like, okay. So we did a couple times. It was cost prohibitive. And then I was then I started searching for options and I was just I didn't look for like case management systems. I just looked for a I think I was like searching for like CRMs just to see what would come up and maybe even project management, management softwares, all that. I don't remember what I googled exactly, but I stumbled on Zoho. I had heard about Zoho CRM, I had heard about Zoho Social, but I didn't. I never looked into them and then I so I was looking to it and I happened to mention it to Kelsey Bratcher. Kelsey said, you're kidding me. I said, no.

Tyson Mutrux 00:15:21 He goes, well, I've always thought like, Zoho is amazing and I would love to build a like. Like I like one of my things that he always wanted to do was like, he wanted to build a company on Zoho because it's like it's a great platform. Not this is not a podcast about Zoho. Not at all. We don't get paid by Zoho. There's no affiliate marketing, nothing like that. But I just I was like, oh, that's. So then I was like, okay, now I'm like, gonna really dig into it. And they offer a ton. It's now you got to know when you get into Zoho, it's like, there's so much to it that you have to not try to dive into everything at one time. You pick one area, but that's another story. So that's that's how I found it. It was a I mean, just kind of stumbled on it.

Becca Eberhart 00:16:01 Do you feel like you're more open now when looking for services to finding companies that aren't specifically advertising, that they're helping law firms, or do you feel more comfortable still going with the companies that advertise to you specifically?

Tyson Mutrux 00:16:15 I'm okay with outside.

Tyson Mutrux 00:16:16 I, I know that Jim and I, we like when when the guild, one of our things that we talked about was like picking something specifically for lawyers. And my opinions changed on that. I think that that opinion was shaped off of our experience with Infusionsoft, which we really liked Infusionsoft, but because it wasn't specifically made for lawyers, it did. I think it did kind of it made it difficult at times to make it work. And there were there were some limitations with Infusionsoft. And then the whole way Infusionsoft went and changed their name, and there's a lot of mistakes that they made. But I think it was colored by that. So it was.

Becca Eberhart 00:16:50 Yeah. Do you want to talk about contracts a little bit? Dive into that a little bit more?

Tyson Mutrux 00:16:55 Yeah. What do you want to know about it? I do have thoughts, but I wonder what you what your thoughts are.

Becca Eberhart 00:17:00 Mine were more general. I was just going to obviously we bring this up a lot. A company that we work with a lot with a lot of our events is Rise Up, and they're known for not having any contracts.

Becca Eberhart 00:17:09 And I think that's worked out really well in our community for them. And I'm just wondering again, it does relate to what we talked about earlier, but why aren't more companies going this way? I truly feel like they're behind. I feel like the vendors that serve law firm owners are behind in not switching to this model, and they're just hanging on for dear life to the contract model acting like as an industry norm. And I don't think it needs to be.

Tyson Mutrux 00:17:36 There will be a lot of pushback in the legal industry before it does shift, because you have a company like Case Text, which I loved. It was purchased by one of the big companies, legal research companies. They've ruined that product and they are a yearly contract or 2 to 3 year. I think we get contacted by them and they they're notorious for sending emails out. And it was like, you know, you can get this rate for two years, you can get this rate for three year contract. And so they will push back.

Tyson Mutrux 00:18:02 I was talking to someone there thinking is is that the whole idea was to buy it and then burned to the ground so that they have one less competitor.

Becca Eberhart 00:18:11 That's what happened with case text is what you're saying.

Tyson Mutrux 00:18:13 Yeah. And I do agree I that happens I tend to agree with them. It's not the product that it was. It was good. But they they had specifically like the legal research part of it's the same. It's the co-counsel, the AI component that they've ruined because they have to, you know, you have to link it to Westlaw and all that. I guess I mentioned the company, so now whatever. But that is where it is. It's it's it's a bit frustrating. So there will be pushback. The reason I think it's just been a standard norm because we were willing to do it. And they're like, if you use the legal research companies like as an example, Westlaw and and LexisNexis Nexus were the two in the game like that? Was it. There was there were others, but there were really no others.

Tyson Mutrux 00:18:56 Those were the two. Yeah. And if you wanted to do legal research, you went through one of those two. Yeah.

Becca Eberhart 00:19:02 We use Lexis at the sheriff's office. It's the only one that we used.

Tyson Mutrux 00:19:05 Yeah. So you like you're you're really limited to those. And like from a practical standpoint, there are some others that are like okay, but if you really want to be able to do legit legal research, that's what you do. Now, I has changed that quite a bit, which that will soften it quite a bit. Like Paxton, I again, no sponsorship, nothing like that. They're great. Like it's it is better than co-counsel was which is good. So I'm thankful to a certain point. But they're they're month to month. They are not long term contract. Their fees are pretty reasonable. So I just think it's something that we've been so used to doing for so long and putting up with it, that I think that's part of it. Yeah, I.

Becca Eberhart 00:19:43 Think my thoughts on this or I think that for our people, I think it is time to create that resistance.

Becca Eberhart 00:19:49 And I think that we, meaning you guys as business owners, like you actually have to take the action on it, question it, ask for a better deal. I think that that's what's going to have to happen to change it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:20:00 And you had you had a really good idea that came from this conversation, which we can't talk about yet. So we got to kind of tiptoe around this. Let's do that. But I mean, you do have a great solution to this that we're working on.

Becca Eberhart 00:20:12 We have a solution that's going to help with this issue. Yeah. That does not exist yet. No. In this industry. No.

Tyson Mutrux 00:20:19 Which is pretty cool. And that's it's one of the things like I told you, it was like one of the most I don't know if it was the most exciting or it's either the most exciting or one of the most exciting things that we've, we've talked about.

Becca Eberhart 00:20:29 I agree.

Tyson Mutrux 00:20:30 Yeah, it's gonna be pretty cool. Yeah, yeah. So I guess have you seen, I'm guessing like doctors and accountants, they probably get gouged to, to a certain point.

Becca Eberhart 00:20:38 Oh, absolutely. I also think now that we're comparing to those two other industries too, I think another thing is time. I think that they use that. People want to get the fix and get it fast. And instead of taking the time to really think through the contracts or the what the monthly cost is, they're like, if you're claiming you could solve my problem, let's just do that and do it today. Maybe we just need to slow down a little bit because I envisioned doctors being the same way. Yeah, very, very busy people and not enough time to really vet what they're signing up for.

Tyson Mutrux 00:21:12 And I do think that there are times where you have to pay a little bit more upfront. I do think that that is I'll use like SEO companies where you're dealing with a personal injury firm. It's a highly competitive market where they've got to do a bunch of build out upfront, or let's say it's even a software company like Yonkers, Yonkers, you got to pay, you know, a thousand or to 2000 up front because they had to do a build out for your specific software for requesting medical records.

Tyson Mutrux 00:21:39 I'm 100% okay with something like that. That is, I had no problem whatsoever paying something like that because there's some sort of they've on their end had to, you know, expense, some sort of resource, whether that's time or money or whatever it may be. But I'm really talking about like we're talking with the ones that are like, they tell you they're going to do something, you pay them for that thing and then they don't deliver on it. That is a completely different thing. Yeah. And I think that the thing, the idea that you came up is going to it's going to make that less likely in the future.

Becca Eberhart 00:22:09 I completely agree. It's definitely going to create a lot more accountability and I'm very excited for it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:22:15 Yeah, I like that. Any tips for because you are I will say you're pretty good about like negotiating with vendors and stuff. Any tips for people that for like dealing with vendors? I think that would be pretty helpful.

Becca Eberhart 00:22:30 I mean, the thing that I just mentioned with time is that you just have to know that you're committing the time it takes to do the communications and figure out what works best for you.

Becca Eberhart 00:22:38 I think that's another thing, though. How often do you think that law firm owners like you are even negotiating, or do you think that they're told this is our package and this is our price, and this is what you can have it for? Or do you think they're even asking the questions?

Tyson Mutrux 00:22:53 I don't, so knowing that they have that ability is yeah, I think that's now I was lucky enough to be in a position early on where I worked for a firm where I don't know why he let me do this. I have zero idea. But it was great because he let me sit in the room with some of these negotiations. And it was he was really good at it, about like they would sit and like to. I would blush like the numbers he would propose versus like what they said that they were charging for it. And like that's.

Becca Eberhart 00:23:23 My style, like this a lot.

Tyson Mutrux 00:23:25 And I was like, wow, you can do this. Like, I didn't know that growing up.

Tyson Mutrux 00:23:30 I'm like, wow, this is a great lesson. Like, I remember there was a time where it comes to billboards. So this is I worked for a volume firm and they had, you know, they have these contracts for billboards and stuff. And so they come in. It was time they had some new signs available, is what it was. So I already said in a couple of meetings, and this one, he wanted me to go in and said, tell them what he was willing to pay. Yeah. And I and he had the cheque written out. That was another little trick to you write the check out in advance. Yeah. And so I met with the guy and he's like, well, we can't do that. And I was thinking like, okay. And so I went and told my boss, and he he comes in and I'm talking, it's like a fraction of what. Yeah, it was. But he was willing to pay the full year upfront, which I thought was another good price at his price, which I thought was another good lesson.

Tyson Mutrux 00:24:15 Yeah. And he goes, so he comes in and he just says, because I think that the guy thought that I was just trying to I was trying to get the firm a better deal, but I really didn't have final authority. Yeah. And he so boss comes in and says, oh, this is what we're paying. And I mean, otherwise we're not we're not paying anything. And the guy, the guy like within seconds, okay, we'll do it. I'm thinking like it's like, okay, now I understand this game a little bit more. So yeah, I think that is important. Understanding that you can actually say no, not paying that and be willing to walk like that's something I've seen. Like you're you're.

Becca Eberhart 00:24:50 Willing there are other options. Yeah. You can walk.

Tyson Mutrux 00:24:52 No matter how much you want it.

Becca Eberhart 00:24:53 You're like and that's from a business standpoint. And from a consumer standpoint, it doesn't matter if this would be more convenient or faster. You can always walk in. There's always another.

Tyson Mutrux 00:25:01 Option. I'm assuming you do this in your personal life. I do. How much? How does Jeremy feel about this?

Becca Eberhart 00:25:06 Great.

Tyson Mutrux 00:25:07 Oh, okay.

Becca Eberhart 00:25:08 I save us money. How? That's.

Tyson Mutrux 00:25:10 Does he ever blush? Whenever you're, like, offering some far lesser amount.

Becca Eberhart 00:25:14 Oh, okay. So, no, I'm not. I should probably clarify here. And this. This does have to do more with things that we pay recurring services to. I want to be very clear. I love, like shopping local things like this. I'm never walking into my local coffee coffee shop and asking for a discount on like my drink or anything like that. I think that they deserve the price that they're asking for.

Tyson Mutrux 00:25:34 So you don't do that?

Becca Eberhart 00:25:35 No. Absolutely not, I don't either.

Tyson Mutrux 00:25:37 Okay, good.

Becca Eberhart 00:25:38 Yeah. This is actually things that you pay for on a recurring basis, like internet streaming services, the satellite radio and vehicles, all of those things are negotiable. And these companies are just so big that I think that it's a very valid ask.

Becca Eberhart 00:25:52 And nine times out of ten, they're going to do something for you. Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:25:56 Especially sell it radio. I mean, Jesus like we like. Yeah. That number's never like set in stone. Like that's always negotiable.

Becca Eberhart 00:26:03 I can't believe what they attempt to charge and that. But a lot of people do. They're like, oh, that's the number. That's for sure. Sure thing.

Tyson Mutrux 00:26:10 It's a good that's a good lesson.

Becca Eberhart 00:26:11 On the other side, negotiated your Sirius XM subscription. I will tell you, I am paying 25% of what you are paying. Yep. Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:26:18 I mean, at most it is kind of crazy with that. It's a good lesson on the other side for lawyers, like like actually like ask for more people. You might end up. I mean, if you want to get into that game of negotiating, that's fine too. Like, we don't like we just don't want to play that game. But like we do, our fees are a little bit higher than most injury firms because we like our bottoms 35%, not a third.

Tyson Mutrux 00:26:38 So we but like it is a good lesson though like ask for it and if you have to adjust it then adjust it. But I think that that is good. It's a really good lesson. And what's the worst thing that's going to happen. You're going to they're going to say no correct. That's it, that's it.