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Transitioning To Other Softwares In Your Law Firm ML116
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In this episode, Jim & Tyson will go over a list of 6 reasons why Jim’s firm is transitioning away from Infusionsoft to another softwares.

 

Topics:

  • Jim and Tyson’s history with Infusionsoft
    • Maximum Lawyer wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for Infusionsoft
    • Discussions about running a law firm

 

The list:

  1. Infusionsoft is at the end of the day, build for Marketing; it’s really clunky when it comes to run a law firm off of it
  2. The sales pipeline itself and using the sales pipeline to try to show a client’s movement (Infusionsoft opportunities) in the during unit through the process of a case is extremely difficult
  3. Infusionsoft is not keeping up with it’s competitors
  4. Infusionsoft is expensive
  5. Immigration is not that strong as other softwares when it comes to Immigration
  6. The Infusionsoft Conference (ICON) got canceled. It was the best conference we’ve ever been to

 

Jim’s hack: Take a look on what you are doing and all the pieces software you are using. It makes you analyze where you are spending your money and what’s most effective. And be open to looking at other things, other pieces of software that might do things a little better.

 

Tyson’s tip: Tyson had urgent need of an answering service and he’s been using ReceptionHQ. They really pulled through.

 

//

 

Thanks so much for listening to the show! If you want to know more about this and keep on maximizing your firm, please join our Facebook Group or like us on Facebook and comment!

You can also go to MaximumLawyer.com or, if you’d prefer, email us at: info@maximumlawyer.com

 

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The Maximum Lawyer Podcast. Partner up, and maximize your firm.

 

 

Resources:

 

Transcripts: Transitioning To Other Softwares In Your Law Firm

Jim Hacking
Really our discussions of running a law practice at the beginning before we even had the show. We’re always about Infusionsoft. I’ll always remember the day you came over for lunch. And then I brought you up to my office and showed you what Infusionsoft could do. And the way your eyes popped out of your head, and I think you signed up for it that very good.

Tyson Mutrux
I remember how I wanted to use it as an actual case management system, and CRM. And they’re like, well doesn’t really do that. And whenever you showed me what you were doing, like, oh, this can do everything. Case management system does. So I don’t know if I sent the same day. Let’s really quickly after that, because if it really was I

Unknown Speaker
run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum liar, podcast, podcast, your hosts, Jim hacking and Tyson Meatrix. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm.

Jim Hacking
Welcome to the show. You’re back on the maximum lawyer Podcast. I’m Jim hacking. Tyson music. How was your weekend? My friend

Tyson Mutrux
who’s good. She’s lost the Tigers last Alabama. So we’ve got some listeners that sure very happy, you know, Moe and Bernard, but congratulations to you all. She’s lost to the Patriots for the first time, or lost the first loss of the season. So sports wise, not so great. But I had a good time with my family. How about you?

Jim Hacking
I have Pat mahomes In my Mitch Jackson fantasy league, and he’s just been lighting it up. But you know, the Andy Reid teams are notorious for starting out very fast and then folding, I predicted that both five and our teams would lose this week. I’d love to root against the Rams. If they moved back to LA they won but the Chiefs did lose. So it’s interesting to see that maybe the end read collapse has begun.

Tyson Mutrux
Okay, so before we get into our topic, I want to talk about the football thing. So if the Chiefs left Kansas City, I would not care and I would still root for them to you. The Euro rams fan and they have moved in. You’re now rooting against them.

Jim Hacking
Yeah, I hate standard Frankie. And so I’m disheartened to see them doing so.

Tyson Mutrux
That’s pretty common, right. Most people that were that were RAM Sam fans are no longer rams fan. Right?

Jim Hacking
I think so I’d say the majority.

Tyson Mutrux
That’s crazy to me. But you know what I didn’t I wasn’t raised in Kansas City. So I think it’s what it is, is if you were born in that city, that city was always there. I think maybe that’s what it was. But I don’t know. Anyway, the football side going and going. Yeah, I’m

Jim Hacking
excited. It’s just you and me today. So hopefully you won’t be as mean to me as you are when we have other guests on the show.

Tyson Mutrux
You’d like it. You know you

Jim Hacking
have an interesting topic today.

Tyson Mutrux
Yeah, we’re talking about Jesus up here. It sounds like you’re jumping ship. So let’s talk about it. Give me the lowdown on it.

Jim Hacking
Well, I think it might be helpful for listeners to hear a little bit about your and my history with Infusionsoft I think it might be safe to say that if it worked for Infusionsoft, we might not have maximum lawyer. And I say that because really our discussions of running a law practice at the beginning before we even had the show. We’re always about Infusionsoft. And I remember I’ll always remember the day you came over for lunch. And then I brought you up to my office and showed you what Infusionsoft could do. And the way your eyes popped out of your head. And I think you signed up for it that very day.

Tyson Mutrux
Yeah, I would have signed up I think a year or two before, if Infusionsoft was better at selling, I think that they were pretty terrible at that aspect of the business. Because I remember how I wanted to use it as an actual case management system, and CRM. And then like, well, it doesn’t really do that. And whenever you showed me what you were doing, like, oh, this can do everything that a case management system does. So they really did. I don’t know if I sent it the same day. That’s kind of really quickly after that, because it really was an eye opener.

Jim Hacking
I don’t know how long ago I joined Infusionsoft. But I do know that I got my first iPhone, which was like an iphone four. That was the bonus for signing up at that particular time. I think they’re getting ready to ask for some venture capital and they wanted to get as many subscribers in as possible. But I’ve been with Infusionsoft for at least since I moved to the old office, which was 2011. So I think about six or seven years.

Tyson Mutrux
Wow. So I don’t really know what I mean. We’re we were to icon. The year after I sign up for you and I went, we went again two years later, I went two years later. So I’m about four or five years. I’ve had it less time than you have, but I’ve gotten the full value out of it, for sure.

Jim Hacking
And to make clear that this show is not a diatribe against infusion sack but we’ve had a lot of discussions and debates in the Facebook group. Really media has some strong opinions on it as he often does. But our firm is transitioning away from Infusionsoft and I came up with a list of six reasons why we are leaving Infusionsoft and I thought that we could talk about those today. And I have to say that you know, Infusionsoft, I’ve met a lot of great friends. We’ve met a lot of people through the Infusionsoft community and some have come and gone. And so we just took a real critical look at what we were trying to do over the course of the last 12 months, and it just seems that there are other software options out there for us that are going to allow us to do what we want to do in a more nimble way.

Tyson Mutrux
Okay, so I’m gonna save my questions for your your top sec, because I, I’m gonna give you pushback on every single one of them, I’m sure but I just go into number one, and let’s see how this goes.

Jim Hacking
Alright, so the first one, you already actually touched on a little bit, and that was that the plan was always to build our immigration law firm on the back of Infusionsoft. And after all these years, you and I both became certified Infusionsoft partners, that we went through the training and learned everything that we possibly could about Infusionsoft. I’ve been lucky to work with some really smart Infusionsoft people like Kelsey Bratcher and Greg Jenkins. And after all this time, about a year ago, we decided to make the switch for our during unit for the operations of the firm from Infusionsoft into Clio. And Cleo has its own limitations. But the fact is, Infusionsoft is at the end of the day built for marketing. And it’s very clunky when it comes to trying to run a law office off of it.

Tyson Mutrux
Okay, so I can completely concede that the user interface is not built out. For a law firm, can you can build out custom interfaces, you can do that for sure. But I mean, not everybody wants to do that. And you get 100 custom fields, which is quite a bit if you’re just doing one, practice areas, plenty if you’re doing multiple, or if you’re doing multiple niches, and inside of a immigration practice. It’s not enough, there are expansions you can use that those cannot be put into the merge field for letters and email, which have a problem which I don’t even understand the point of those expansions is they can’t be used for merge fields. But you can build out custom interfaces. And the reason why I like five lines so much is that one, you can build out an integration with a case management system that has a prettier interface. File, Vine has something coming soon, we’re going to fully integrate with Infusionsoft. So I’m going to be using those in conjunction with each other, which is gonna be pretty awesome. FileBound does not have the automation power from Infusionsoft. And that’s all I care about with Infusionsoft is the automation interface, I don’t care. That’s why we use fireline for the interface, and then the power of that automation is just, it’s crazy. And you can save so much money on staff and you can get so much more work done. And you can get in touch with clients. So much better, you can communicate with them so much better. It’s great. But anyway, so you don’t like the interface, which is your number one, what’s your number two?

Jim Hacking
Oh, no, we’re still on number one, because I want to give you mad props. I want to give you mad props for all the hard work that you did to build out your systems and to automate. I know the amazing campaigns that you’ve built out for your during unit not for the sales piece. But for the actual operations, you’ve done a much better job of building that out and I kept banging my head against the wall. And Kelsey as nimble as he is, I think he might be one of the most nimble Infusionsoft users that’s out there. We’ve had a really hard time trying to automate what we what we do. And we’ve had to bring in other forms of software and bringing in those other forms of software, we’ve come to see the limitations that Infusionsoft really has. And really, that’s what, to me, I feel like we’re moving on to generation 2.0 of the firm’s tech stack. And it’s interesting that you have started using File vine for a part of your process because Infusionsoft doesn’t do it as well as file vine. So I think that by your own actions, you telegraph some of the limitations that Infusionsoft had.

Tyson Mutrux
Oh, no question. I will tell you, me getting to that point is it was all because of my choice. I mean, my we haven’t really talked about this much. I switched to trial works because my former law partner wanted to switch to trial work, which is a, in my opinion, a garbage software. And then after that, I needed a new software. I was still using Infusionsoft. But it was at that point too difficult to move all my stuff back in Infusionsoft in an organized manner, but I also did see the deficiencies in the organization and I was able to see file by and file vine sponsored our conference. They gave me some sneak peeks into what they were doing. And I really, really do love the product. And so that was my roundabout way of getting there. If none of that has happened. I would have been using Infusionsoft the same way it was two years ago.

Jim Hacking
I love it. And I still do love it. But I will say it is limited though in its capabilities and become just just the general organizational file. I think that’s the easiest way of putting it. Well, and so that does bring us to number two, you are inviting me to go to number two, and that is that the sales pipeline itself, and using the sales pipeline or Infusionsoft opportunities to try to show a client’s movement in the during unit through the process of their car accident case, or their immigration case, is extremely difficult. I challenge anyone listening to this show to explain to me how opportunities work in a coherent and easy fashion because opportunities inside Infusionsoft which is sort of their sales flow is extremely complicated and very hard to use. And it’s very duplicative of the data that you already have inside Infusionsoft.

Tyson Mutrux
So it’s funny, I have opportunities. They gave it to me, about a year and a half ago, it’s sort of added into a package for me, and I’ve never used it. I’ve never understood it. I remember a long time ago, after I signed up, I got the regular version of Infusionsoft without opportunities. And then I upgraded right before going to iKON. And I remember talking to Michael Adelman, and say, Hey, man, and he’s a big Infusionsoft guys today, what are opportunities? And he couldn’t explain it. So, I to this day, don’t know what an opportunity is explained to me in a way where there’s sort of like a case, if you were to think of like a case as opposed to an opportunity. But that’s not quite true, because there are, I think opportunities are different stages would be different stages of a case, right? Is that kind of what an opportunity is?

Jim Hacking
Yeah. And the reason it’s important is because you want to be able to do reports like for me, I want to see all the cases that are waiting for the client to come in and sign or all the cases where we’re waiting for USCIS to issue a decision or all the cases where there’s something stuck on our end in our workflow. And we tried to do that with opportunities, but it is freaking impossible. I bet if we had clay mask on here, he couldn’t explain what opportunities are.

Tyson Mutrux
For the people that don’t know that. That’s the CEO of Infusionsoft. You’re probably right. So I can’t explain it to you. I don’t know. I don’t think it’s important. I don’t think the opportunities are important when it comes to using Infusionsoft. I have the I use the call the regular version of Infusionsoft. And what I mean by that is, I use it without opportunities. I have a souped up I should have a souped up version of Infusionsoft when it comes to contacts and a bunch of get the commerce part of it a bunch of other things. That’s for other reasons. But I don’t think you need opportunities to run Infusionsoft effectively. And actually, I think opportunity is confusing people. And I don’t think it’s necessary.

Jim Hacking
How are you getting the data out of Infusionsoft to track where your clients are in their cases?

Tyson Mutrux
Okay, so my very simple, no, I mean, I had to talk two years ago, how is getting the data data is different now get it through Domo through five line. But two years ago, it all just came to my dashboard. So I had my my dashboard built out. And I tagged my cases where once I got to another stage, I would have that on my dashboard. And so I had seven different stages that were pre lit. And then seven different stages that were litigation, would tell me where they were in each of those stages, and how many cases I had in each stages. And so I’d click on a link, and it would open up all those files in. I mean, that’s how I did it. I mean, it was very simple. I think the dashboard reporting, once you know how to do it, Infusionsoft, it’s stupid, easy. You can open up your dashboard every morning and see exactly what’s going on. Alright, so number three, you gave me nothing on that reporting. And I think I told you exactly what you need. And you are clearly not doing that when it comes to reporting.

Jim Hacking
You just said that you’re using Domo to I mean, you’re you’re proving my case by all of these other pieces of software that you’re using. If you want, I mean, you’re making my point I know. But the more that I move into, you know, using other software to six little pieces of it, then I’m left to ask myself, why should I keep using Fusion? So I think and could I do away with it? That’s sort of how I’ve gotten to this point.

Tyson Mutrux
You can do away with it. But I could be just fine right now without using without using anything else. I’m using it just to sort of up my game a little bit. I don’t, I don’t necessarily need to do it. Anyway, let’s go to number three. But that’s my

Jim Hacking
point. I’ve been on game and I’m just being honest.

Tyson Mutrux
And I want my radical candor that I like it. That’s good.

Jim Hacking
All right, cool. So number three, I believe that Infusionsoft is not keeping up with its competitors. I think that even if you if you want to stay with Infusionsoft, if you look at other things like click funnels, or other sales software that moves you through a pipeline, obviously that isn’t Salesforce, something on the Enterprise Edition, but you know, Infusionsoft I think, hit a home run when it came up with campaign builder. And that was really He’s a thing of all things that made your eyes pop out of your head with campaign builder. And campaign builder hasn’t changed in about five years. I mean, they’ve made little tweaks to it. And they made little tweaks to Infusionsoft overall. But for the most part, it’s the same piece of software you and I started using four years ago.

Tyson Mutrux
I think that that’s mostly true. Apparently, there’s a new version they’re calling some people are calling it new Infusionsoft. Infusionsoft might be calling it new Infusionsoft. I don’t know. I don’t know what that looks like. I think that the tweaks that they have made have been good improvements, and that it hasn’t really needed to improve much over the last five years, I think it’s pretty incredible. I can’t compare to any other product. I haven’t opened any other products when it comes to automation technologies that are similar to Infusionsoft. There, there are people that have mentioned, you know, like MailChimp, or something like that. A variety of other these, what I would consider just email marketing campaigns where you basically shoot out a mass email, those are not the same thing as what Infusionsoft is, in people’s trying to tell me, you know, well, this does automation, that does not do automation, you can track with links and stuff like that. But very little of what people consider automation is actually an automation, I’ve never looked at, I think it’s called green rope. I think I looked at that a long time ago. I think that’s what it’s called Salesforce. Public that that was a long time ago. I haven’t looked at those recently. But it’s a system that whatever system people are using, if it’s not automatically sending out or drafting letters, or sending out postcards, or sending out emails, without you having to do something extra without you having to go in and click a button. It’s not just doing it on its own, that’s not automation. That is whatever else uses that Doc generation and whatever else you might want to call it. It’s not automation, I’m talking about true automation. And I haven’t seen another product out there. That like the one that is similar to what Infusionsoft is, so I can’t really compare. So I don’t really know,

Jim Hacking
the training that you bring up new Infusionsoft or, which is like the New Coke edition of coke, they have brought out a simpler, purple cleaner version of Infusionsoft. And from what I’m hearing from all of my friends in the Infusionsoft community, and from what I’ve seen, it’s really just a dumbed down version of it. And it’s not it’s like infusion, soft light, it hasn’t been anything innovative or new, it’s a matter of just trying to clean it all up. So I think that the new fusion soft is just a bigger problem that that’s gonna go to some of the other points that I’m going to make a little later. Okay, number four goes along with this, when looking at all the different pieces of software that we’re using. And I should, I should putting out this caveat. And you know this, but maybe all of our listeners don’t notice that I am the king of shiny objects. So I do like to look at different pieces of software. And I do get excited about new things. But I’ve really spent some time working with Kelsey and some other folks to try to figure out what would work best for us. And I think my eyes really were opened when we started doing all of our immigration forms in an automated piece of software that syncs with Clio. But the point is for number four is that repeat itself is just plain expensive. And if I can devote those that money to other places, then that I think is more effective. I think that overall, Infusionsoft is a little bit pricey. And so that’s the fourth reason why we’re leaving.

Tyson Mutrux
I want us to agree that it is pricey. They did. I think that that’s why they gave came out with a new the watered down version. And I don’t know if the people that have mentioned the new infusions up to me are talking about that watered down version. I don’t know if that’s the same thing, because I have seen snippets of that. I’ve seen an introduction to that. So I don’t know if that’s the same thing people were talking about, because that is not what I considered. I think that’s sort of a joke. I don’t know why they came out with it. So there are a cheaper version, I think you can get actually, I just think I’m almost certain that you can get a version, the full version for $99 now, which is pretty freakin cheap. Now you’re limited on your number of contacts. I can’t know what they are. But you can get a full version of infusions are fairly inexpensive. And if you’re just using it just for your case, that it should there should be plenty of contacts for you use it for so I think that that’s a problem that they’ve solved. I think that if you’re if you’re spending what I’m spending what you’re spending, Jim, then I think people Yeah, it’s too expensive, probably is too expensive. But if you’re just starting out, you’re just using it for basic stuff, or just basic stuff. But just for your case, as in you’re not here, do you go through your contact list and you weed out the people that you really don’t have any contact with? I think I think the number of contacts is probably enough. I think the issue

Jim Hacking
of pricing and focus in Infusionsoft that, for me, things sort of changed when they took VC money, and I’m all about people getting paid. But I really feel like the company took on a different direction once they started taking Goldman Sachs money, and that things have really just sort of become much more corporate II and I just felt like it’s grown stagnant for what you’re paying for.

Tyson Mutrux
Yeah, I could see that. I mean, I’ve heard a lot of, it’s weird. I mean, I started hearing the complaints about people taking the VC money right after it happened. And I think it’s one of these things. It’s sort of a self fulfilling prophecy for people where they, they heard that they’re taking the money and so they said, Oh, this is gonna go, we can go, we’re gonna go to crap. And then they’re like, Okay, it’s crap. Now, you know, I think that that’s a lot of people, you know, bitching about something that’s really nothing to really gripe about. So I think that the product is a great product. So the other thing is the watered down version of Infusionsoft, which it made to me it diminished what the product does. I think the full blown Infusionsoft is just a very powerful machine, that if you want to harness that, it will make you a ton of money. Anyway, let’s get to your next one. Then.

Jim Hacking
Number five, I believe that Infusionsoft is not that strong as some other pieces of software when it comes to integrations, and and maybe that’s specifically integrations in the legal field. But the fact is that Infusionsoft, I believe had the opportunity several years ago to by Zapier to go all in on Zapier, they chose not to do that. And I think they’ve suffered for it. I think that in the legal field, there have been a lot of players like Clio and PracticePanther that have caught up. And because of Zapier, people are really going to be able and really are able to push out the data from one piece of software to another. And for instance, for us, that’s really important because we’re going to be using Lead docket for our intake. And that data all syncs nicely with Clio. And then the data and Cleo syncs nicely with our form software that we use for preparing our immigration forms. So just it’s not a knock on a gene software, when it comes to legal software integrations. It’s just not able to keep up in the same way and to push out the data. Because, you know, some of these companies like Clio are spending a lot of money to make the integrations more seamless, whereas with Infusionsoft, you have to link up all your individual custom fields, to get that data out into the places that you want it and, frankly, for immigration forms. It’s just not there.

Tyson Mutrux
Okay, so I got a couple of questions. I mean, to me, it’s laughable that you think Clio is a superior product to Infusionsoft, when you have a Clio is any other CRM, that or a case management system, that’s all you got, you’ve got the exact same thing that everybody has throw a dart at a dartboard and whatever case manager system you’d hit, and that’s what you end with, with Clio. And whether it be practice, Panther, my case, whatever, they’re all pretty much the same way there, you get the pretty generic stuff. You don’t really get anything extra. I don’t know what you’re going to do when it comes to drip campaigns and following it, clients follow up, and birthday emails and all this stuff that is automatically on them. It’s automated. You know, it’s the clients anniversary, what’s the client anniversary of them becoming a US citizen, and a year later, you send them a congratulatory email or some sort of card that automatically goes ask them and tell them, It’s been a year as a US citizen, how you doing? And how’s life, blah, blah, blah, the all of that is done? Without thinking about, it’s just done. I mean, you don’t get any of that with any of the stuff you’re talking about. So do you have a solution for that? Yeah, we’re going

Jim Hacking
to do a real bare bones version of drip, and we’re going to set that off from drip off a lead doc. And so drip, we’ll be doing our our drip campaign. And that’s relatively cheap. And we’ll just have to have one little automated account for that. We might keep that piece with Infusionsoft. But as I see things now, I think it’s just always gonna fall away.

Tyson Mutrux
Okay, so you’ve got lead docket? Let’s get those get on a list of what you call your tech stack. I’ve noticed you, you’ve been using that phrase a lot lately. So you’ve got drip, you have Clio, you’re gonna lead docket? You’re gonna be using Zapier. I’m assuming what else am I leaving out?

Jim Hacking
Our immigration form software, so we have those so but that mean, those are all parts of the pieces, I mean, business I need to have those. So I understand your point. I want to have a lot of different things spread out. But engineers have isn’t able to do all the things that these other things can do.

Tyson Mutrux
Question about the integration software, what is the purpose of it where and why is it so great?

Jim Hacking
Okay, so up until January of last year, as crazy as it sounds, if we got it, let’s say you you hired us to to bring over your spouse from France. So there’s about six sets of forms that we would need to do that. So in the old days, we would just type up each form in Adobe on PDF and save it and so now we use the software called premiere posse that allows us to get the information from Clio into prema. And then primo will prepare the forms, you know, so that you don’t just type them all out every single time.

Tyson Mutrux
Okay, so interesting, you may want to look into filebot, you need to give Beilein a very good look, because they have something. So you’re talking about mail merge, basically, or merge with documents and PDF, right?

Jim Hacking
It’s really tricky, because there’s two competitors. There’s prima facie, and there’s document wise, and we might be switching to docket wise. But the point is that, when you have an Adobe PDF, these are these types of these documents are like 20 pages long, they probably have about 80 variables in there. And when you go back and just like I’m sure file line when you go and make the change in the database, and it fixes it and all the forms. But these guys have gone through and they keep track of all the immigration forms, which are constantly changing to think that we can do it in something other than an immigration form database. Again, I’d be back to trying to link up custom fields and building it out myself where these guys have already gone ahead and done that and docket wise, for what that’s worth, they have an outward facing client portal where it’s smart. So if they say well, is your spouse in the United States or outside the United States, and it takes them down a different path to do their intake all online, so we’re not even the ones typing in the information?

Tyson Mutrux
Okay, I mean, I think that part’s valuable, I guess what I was gonna say was bottom line, which they have the outward facing capabilities as well, they have all actually all that same stuff that you just talked about. So basically, you can create a form that your clients can fill out, but they’ve got a PDF merge. And there’s a company called Web merge that I would have to use with Infusionsoft, I don’t have to do that anymore. Because file vine has it built into their actual system, where it’s a PDF merge. And so for a lot of the court documents that are just basically in PDF that you had to fill out, for example, St. Louis County, when we hire a special process server, there’s a specific special process or form that we have to fill out each written time. It’s really annoying. But it’s all of that is just merged in, which is great. So I think you should at least to look at five lines to see, because I think it may could replay some of the technologies that you’re using, and you’d like to save some money. There’s one last

Jim Hacking
tricky thing for our forms. And that is that for most immigration forms, when the forms are created in Adobe, then there’s a huge barcode at the bottom of the form that changes with each type stroke that you make on the form. So to get that, to come through when you do it, it’s very difficult to do it if you’re not using immigration forms. Okay, so

Tyson Mutrux
that’s a key piece of information. And I didn’t realize that so that is the barcode changes each test view, you fill it out. Okay, that makes a lot of sense. Alright, number six.

Jim Hacking
And this is the one you just touched on. It’s my last one, and that this is probably more personal than anything. But you know, you and I had great fun at the Infusionsoft conference every year and had a great feel to it a great vibe. I sort of like the touchy feely stuff you like sort of the practical stuff, as our listeners might not be surprised. But there’s also great vendors and things and we really liked the Infusionsoft icon conference. I got to meet Daymond John and Gary Vaynerchuk. And so when the VC money came in, and they they decided to stop doing that conference that was sort of puzzling to me, but I guess it was a loser when it came to finance but I thought it was really good to keep people motivated to learn about new things about Infusionsoft and I was quite sad to see it go.

Tyson Mutrux
I think just looking at the bottom line and looking okay, are we are we losing money on running this conference, I wouldn’t shock me at all and just say that they lost money on it, but I’m wondering the big picture if you know losing that community that they built, and that never really lost the community but they’ve lost a key component of that community, a place where people can gather every year and talk about things and really just just bombed together I wonder if that if they losing that component has caused them to lose customers which then caused them to lose money i i really am curious to see how those numbers play out because I’m sure they’ve spent a bunch of money on that conference but I that conference It is to this day. I mean the best conference ever I mean it really is I mean was yeah it was it was yeah yeah well yeah was so icon the top two conferences ever vigils both I got they were that you have things where they would you’d meet with professional and business advisors you need sit down with them if you wanted to, and they would they wouldn’t break down your business for you and tell you where our weaknesses are. Where you’ve got room for improvement how you can make more money. Maybe there’s things like that where you you get that it’s just including the conference price, you’re not having to spend extra money for that and then you did you get people like Marcus Lemonis from the profit come to speak big freak named Daymond John Ryan Deiss Gary Vaynerchuk like These aren’t small people, these are big people. And they’re coming to speak to you. And then you have people that just that you have small breakout sessions you got big session. They did the marker, the, I guess it’s not called the marker of the year. That’s what sunglass call says. But the equivalent basically, you know, where they give $10,000 is some company that usually some small company that does something really amazing with Infusionsoft. But there were so many components to it. That really, when you and I found out about it, I mean, it was because we’d already paid for icon 2018. At the time, we were all geared up and jazzed up or in shortly after, I believe it was icon 2017 whenever they announced it, and so it was a real bummer. I’ve noticed a an increase in frustration with that. And I seriously think that a lot of that stemmed from them canceling icon, visits for me

Jim Hacking
for sure. There’s no doubt that’s what got my brain clicking on on perhaps possibly leaving leaving the cult,

Tyson Mutrux
one of our listeners, I’m not going to mention his name, because we may he may get mad at me. He swears up and down that I can replace Infusionsoft with a couple tools that he knows about. And so he’s gonna show me that and I will tell you, I will be completely honest with you. I’ll bail on Infusionsoft if he if he’s right. So I will report back with a doctrine. But I think that a lot of it, people don’t understand what Infusionsoft does. I don’t think that they understand the power of it. And then once they actually see what you write and build that the action go in, and I’ve shown everybody on mastermind experience, I think I’ve done a demo on a Mac Moyer. I think I’ve done a couple of demos. Do you want to see it later on? I’ll show you. I think it’s kind of mind blowing whenever you look behind the curtain and see actually what’s in there, what you can actually do with it. I think a lot of this a lot of people that badmouth Infusionsoft just don’t really understand what it does. And I’ve never really seen as full power.

Jim Hacking
Alright, brother, well, I think we should get to our hack and our

Tyson Mutrux
tip of the week, almost forever hacking Tip of the Week. And before we do, I’m going to stop your first second. And I’m going to ask everyone to please, you don’t even have to push the pause button. As I’m talking now. You will go and give us a five star review. Pretty pretty pleased. It does a lot of good help spread the word. I want to double our reviews if we can by the end of the year. That would be pretty freakin amazing, Jimmy. So please, go, yes, five star review is a quick comment in, boom, done, your obligation is done paid your debt for this show, okay, you’re getting the show for free. We have awesome guests come on. So please give us a review. And then also a good Facebook group that places happen. So join the Facebook group get involved there. If you are a non lawyer and you try to join, we’re probably going to reject you. Just sorry, we try to keep spammers out of the group. However, if you’re working for a law firm, or helping out a lawyer, send us a message and we might need to get you in. So just know that if you’re a marketer, and you’re listening to this, and you’re just trying to market to our group and spam, you’re not getting them. So anyways, Jimmy, that was a long little speech. But what’s your hack of the

Jim Hacking
day we did go over 700 members in the Facebook group. So that was pretty exciting. And we are inches away from picking the final dates for our conference, speaking of awesome conferences. And then the other thing that was a reminder for me, when you mentioned the reviews, we need to check Neil Goldstein said, our good friend from Long Island told us that he left us a review, and it hasn’t shown up yet. And he left in two weeks ago. So we need to make sure that we’re checking out our apple podcast reviews, my hack of the week is to do what I’ve done. And today we’re having our firm monthly meeting. And I’ve gone through and I know you pointed out that he’s using that term tech stack. And I liked that. But I think to go through and see all the different pieces of software that you’re using is very helpful. And it makes you sort of analyze where you’re spending your money, and what’s most effective. And then just being open to looking at other things, other pieces of software that might do things a little better. And you know, I know there’s sometimes it’s hard to change. But I also find that sometimes I get stuck. Just because it’s a sunk cost. I’ve been in a piece of software for so long, I feel like I have to stay. So one thing with these changes that we’ve made in the office, once I’ve committed to everyone in the office that I won’t do any more tinkering with our software until at least January 1 of 2020. So I think there’s great value in taking a look at what you’re doing.

Tyson Mutrux
You’re not going to do anything. We’re not going to tweak anything until January 1 and 2020.

Jim Hacking
I’m promising not to go hog wild and switch out of a piece of software for a year and a half. Okay.

Tyson Mutrux
I mean, the yield tweak that software, the software any tweaking, I’m gonna say well, yeah,

Jim Hacking
but we’re not gonna make wholesale big changes, I guess is what I meant. Okay,

Tyson Mutrux
I gotcha. Interesting. I mean, I guess what I mean, if you find out a piece of garbage, I think that’s probably a bad idea, but I think it’s a it’s a good commitment as long as you’ve got a good software My tip of the week is I’ve been using reception HQ for about a month and a half now, I have urgent need for a answering service. And I’ll tell you what they’ve really pulled through. You can get a lot of minutes for not that much. I think that they do a pretty good job. Are they the best out there? When it comes to answering the phone will be completely candid and say no, we’re not the best at answering the phone. I think they’re good. I think the gold standard is probably really, I’ve never used Smith AI so I don’t know if Jimmy is even speak to that. But I think Ruby is the gold standard probably but they’re also we pay a lot of money for them with a gold standard really is really but receptionist THQ has been really really good for me. I really do like them. So I recommend them. So reception HQ, Jimmy, anything else?

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