This week on the show we have Neal Goldstein. Neal has had extensive experience in the area of Personal Injury law. At Goldstein and Bashner he managed the firm’s caseload and has been involved in the resolution of millions of dollars for his clients. Over the last twenty years Neal has expanded the firm’s clientele so that the firm now represents injured parties all over New York and is co-counsel in numerous claims in other states.
In today’s episode we’ll talk about Neal’s story which has formed his “why” and how he hopes to transition into doing only the things he’s the most passionate about including marketing.
Take a listen at 21:14 to hear Neil talk about a brand video he created!
Jim’s Hack:
Now that our Facebook group has grown, we actually have
people in most major markets around the country and my hack of the week
is to connect with those people. I’ve been lucky enough to have some of the best meals with our members. It’s so easy to get caught up in the digital, but Neal’s right, there’s no substitute for human connection.
Neal’s Tip:
Because my memory is starting to go on me and because I have ideas that pop into my head at the worst times, I use an app called Otter, Otter voice digital. And it is a great way of speaking your mind very quickly. It actually records everything that you say in text format. It’s searchable. And if you’re doing an interview, or a podcast, it actually separates the voices so it works out very well.
Tyson’s Tip:
So my tip of the week is a book that my mom gave me. And it’s called The Coffee Bean. It’s a really simple lesson and an easy read. I mean, you could probably read it in 30 minutes. In a nutshell, you look at a coffee bean and really all the power is inside the coffee bean. And you don’t really get that power out until you boil it down. It’s a really neat lesson.
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Transcripts: “Sharing Your Story” with Neal Goldstein
Unknown Speaker
Run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum lawyer podcast, podcast. Your hosts, Jim hacking and Tyson metrics. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.
Jim Hacking
Welcome back to the maximum lawyer Podcast. I’m Jim hack.
Tyson Mutrux
And guys the matrix whatever you want me Tyson,
Jim Hacking
it’s Monday morning. It’s the first day of the week. It’s a good time to talk.
Tyson Mutrux
Yeah, I don’t know if the last time we actually recorded an episode on a Monday because we normally do Tuesdays. But how was your weekend?
Jim Hacking
It was good, a little stressful running around with the kids and doing a bunch of different things. But life is good. I can’t complain.
Tyson Mutrux
Same here. Same here. You want to introduce our guests to the week? Oh boy. I’m
Jim Hacking
so excited. You know, last week I hopped on the call with Jim Ashkelon. I thought it was our week with Neil. I was happy to talk to Jim. But I’m really excited to talk to Neil as well. Neil Goldstein is a true lawyers lawyer, he has mentored me and helped us very much with the show. He’s a personal injury lawyer from Long Island. And he tells a great tale. We’re excited to have him on the show today. So Neil, thanks for being here.
Neal Goldstein
I’m honored to be here. And thanks to you and Tyson, for giving me this opportunity. The first on a Monday, you said that’s great. I’m honored. And I’m happy to talk to you guys.
Tyson Mutrux
So now you, as Jim said, we’re we’re really, really thrilled about having you on. And I think it’s important for listeners that don’t know you to really know your story. So can you talk about kind of how you got to where you are now? Sure, let’s
Neal Goldstein
see if we can, we can summarize this as best as we can. I come from a very broken family. And it’s important to know that that’s part of my story. I come from an abusive household. My My mom was mentally abused. She was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. When I was very young, her illness progressively got worse. And I had two brothers much older than me. And when my father left me, I guess I was about 12 years old, it was just really me and my mother. And it was a very difficult situation. For me at that point, I had no practical parent, if you will, my mother at that point was in a wheelchair. And she I guess she was concerned about all of us, but concerned mostly about me, but really couldn’t do much we were we were extremely poor. And I was not a bad kid. But I was lost. You know, I had no guidance. So ultimately, I dropped out of high school, I think I was about whenever I was allowed to drop out. I did officially, I remember going to my mother with the forms and saying that I’m dropping out. She obviously was very concerned. And, you know, try try her best and hoped, I guess that I would find my way. And it was probably the most difficult moment, even when I think about it. Now imagine going to your mom who’s going through hell to begin with, and telling her that you’re dropping out. Unfortunately, that, you know, after that I found a lot of good people, people that I call human angels in my life that were able to help me put it all together. And a couple of years later, after wandering around, I went back I took my equivalency, high school equivalency diploma and started out a community college. Yes, that was pretty good at it. And ultimately went to a four year school, four year college, graduated Queens College here in New York, and ultimately went to law school. And I guess, probably one of the greatest moments in my life. And there might have been a few was when my mother was at Lincoln Center seeing the graduate law school. And I’m glad that she was around to see that because I’m sure that repaired some of the damage that I inflicted. So that’s, I guess, the beginning part. And then of course, you know, ultimately I went to law school and in my thing,
Jim Hacking
you know, that’s a hell of a story reminds me of my father who dropped out of high school and joined the Marine Corps after his dad died. What was inside you that made you want to be a lawyer? What was what was driving you? After all that turmoil in your educational background? What made you think you could be a
Neal Goldstein
lawyer? Really, really, really good question, Jim. Because I’ve thought about that, you know, very often and I come back to the same thing. You know, we all we all have moments in our life when something happens a moment when you know what moments when when you put it together, and you’re able to as Steve Jobs said so eloquently in his great commencement speech to go got the name of the college, but it was the only one he did. At some point, you’re able to connect the dots. And that’s what you know, we all have to do is connect the dots. Looking back, of course. And so when I look back and I connect the dots I, I saw that, you know, as a teenager, imagine this as a teenager, when I was 1516. I was advocating for my mother, because there was no because at that time, it wasn’t a lot of services for her. And so I remember running into the city, going before a Medicaid board and a Social Security Board to help get her the benefits that she needed. I know that sounds outrageous, could you imagine your own 15 year old their own 16 year old doing that, but I had no choice I had to do that there was nobody else immediately around to help her. And I did that more than once more than twice. And I have to say most of the time, I was pretty successful. Maybe people just felt bad for me. I think those were the seeds that were planted. That ultimately made me feel as though you know, I could do this for other people pretty well. And I guess, you know, that was at least part of the growth and the decision making process on becoming a lawyer.
Tyson Mutrux
So my family we always tell people about is hey, you know, you need to develop your story, you need to develop your why. And it’s it’s not an easy process for most people. Is it knowing your why in your story and all that? Is that something that came naturally to you? Or did you have to work through it to really develop that?
Neal Goldstein
I did, but I didn’t. Because early on in my life. I remember saying, Guys, I remember saying, you know, I made I made this through, okay, I remember, you know, in my 20s, I’d say I’m pretty good. I handled this life pretty good so far, considering you know, what I’ve, what I witnessed, and what I went through. And the truth is, I didn’t really handle it, you know, it was, it does affect you. Everything that we do, you know, as parents affects our children in one form or another. And I was affected by it. And so ultimately, I think that, at some point, I started to put the pieces together and figure out, hey, this is my journey. This was part of my journey. And it took a long time to do this. And I’m going to embrace it, this is my story. I’m not going to hide from it. And I’m going to share it because when you share your story, you obviously strengthen yourself, and then you give strength to others, because there’s other Neal Goldstein’s out there that may be in similar situations, you could strengthen them as well. And you know, I know it sounds crazy, but we, you know, we do talk a lot about marketing. And, you know, sharing your story may be the best secret around for marketing. Most people don’t think about it all off. And most people maybe not, maybe don’t want to share it. And that’s their prerogative. But when you do share your story, once you find out what your story is, it is a powerful, powerful marketing tool. Because in the end, guys, there’s nobody else that has your story. Your story is unique to you. And when you market that you gain a tremendous amount of marketing advantages.
Jim Hacking
Neil, I want to transition into the logistics of your law practice and all those things we usually talk about. But before we do, I do have one more question. And that is, how did you not be angry? How did you get past the anger of all that turmoil in your childhood with your dad and your mom? Everything? How did you sort of let that go and become the awesome man that you are? Wow,
Neal Goldstein
it’s really tough because there are moments that I think I’m still angry. But yes, for the most part, I live a really happy life. Because I had I had wonderful people around me I had, you know, as I I refer to a human angels, people alongside of me who were very supportive. And, you know, just give you one quick story, guys. I remember I haven’t seen my father. I’ve seen him one time in about 35 years. And so when my son was born, he was about five or six years old, I met my father for the purpose of seeing if he would be able to have a relationship with my son. Ultimately, it did not happen. He did not have the relationship but I did meet him. And I remember looking in the rearview mirror sitting in my car waiting for him to come to the meeting point. And when I saw him, I was completely at least for the moment. Like my jaw dropped. I remember this man being six to a huge man, you know, big guy. And then when I saw him in the mirror must have been in his 80s at that point. I said, Okay, what am I going to do get angry at this guy now? I mean Just did a whole thing on me. But the truth is, your anger drops with a lot of good people around you a lot of good people who love you and care about you. And quite honestly, some good therapy
Tyson Mutrux
right now. So I’m gonna, I’m gonna start transitioning us into, as Jim puts it, the logistics of your firm, Leto for setup of your firm. So you know how many people what you will do things like that.
Neal Goldstein
Right? So we are 100%, personal injury work, nothing else, we do not do medical malpractice or product liability, we did medical practice for a long time, then I decided that that wasn’t working for us for a whole bunch of reasons. It’s my partner and I, we have a great support staff of legal assistance. And we have three very experienced trial attorneys who work as of counsel for us, and they do our trials.
Jim Hacking
And what’s the history of the firm Neal, talk to us about sort of how it got started, your partners, and how it’s grown.
Neal Goldstein
So in 1991, I joined this firm, which is the successor firm, to another firm. And in that firm, the senior partner hired me as an associate. And I was always a go getter, I had the fire in the belly from day one. And I brought in a lot of work. And at some point, you know, I guess I was putting the pressure on, because I thought I was bringing in enough work that either I’m going out on my own if somebody’s going to make me a partner, and, and he didn’t want to lose me. So I became a partner. Ultimately, he moved forward. And he kind of as he got older kind of transition to something else I brought in my existing partner. And just important, I have been together for almost 20 years now.
Tyson Mutrux
So now I may ask you a question. It’s, it’s kind of hard for me to ask, but I want to see if you can kind of think it through and go through with me. You come from a poor background. And from from the outside looking in, it looks like you’ve got a pretty nice life. And if you had troubles adjusting from that poor background, to a wealthier background, and again, I’m assuming some things, but it can be challenging bridging that gap. And have you had those challenges?
Neal Goldstein
No, because I’m being honest with you. Yes, 100 question. No, it’s not it’s, and I understand what you’re saying. Because, you know, most of my clients are people from lower middle income background. So I see people have a difficult means. And I’ve seen people in poverty now. And I need my friends who knew me when and they’re doing okay, I might be doing better. But here’s the thing, I keep it simple. And I’ve always kept it simple in my life. It hasn’t changed. And I’m very grateful for that. And I’m very grateful that I have a wife like that, because that’s essential. If you don’t have somebody rowing in the same direction with you, you’re in trouble. But simple. What is simple mean, to be honest, guys, I don’t need to drive around in a Mercedes or BMW. I’m not the grudging anybody that’s doing it, but I don’t need to do it. It’s okay with me to drive, the Honda or the Nissan. I’m not saying to do nice things for yourself. I do travel a lot, because I really liked that. And I wouldn’t have been able to do that in another life. But I tried to keep it very simple. I don’t need to wear Armani suits. Do I buy better suits than I might have? at some other point? Yes. But I try to stay as grounded as I can I try to teach my kids that. Not always easy. Now you guys know that it’s not always easy. You see what’s around you. But it’s you know, it’s a good point. You know, sometimes it’s difficult. But I also remember where I came from, and I never leaves me ever,
Jim Hacking
ever. Neal, what do you enjoy the most about practicing law?
Neal Goldstein
That’s changed. It really has Jim. It used to be I loved going into court taking depositions. I really liked all of that, mixing it up. But over the last 10 more now, maybe 15 years, gotten more into marketing, and I really enjoy it. And I hope that over the next year so I start transitioning into 100% of my life will be marketing in one form or another. I still like I have to be honest with you. There are two ends of the game that I still enjoy. One is a meeting the clients in the beginning and I’ve been criticized by that from some of our colleagues. I meet a lot of the clients when they you know when they first call us and they want want to see a lawyer. I go there very often. And I saw I liked that point. Are a lot I also like negotiating cases I love going to mediations love settling cases. So those are, those are two things that I still like doing, of course along with all the all the marketing.
Tyson Mutrux
So now where are you headed with this thing? Are you? Do you want to grow the firm? Do you want to scale it more? Do you want to kind of stay where you are and maintain what you’re doing now? Wortley? In five years, we’ll have the firm going to look?
Neal Goldstein
That’s a good question. Because I know it’s many of us don’t really think about it. I’m guessing a lot of guys that are younger than me. But you know, I’m 57 So now I’m looking at, okay, five years down the road, what do I want to be doing? I want to be doing fun stuff with my wife, my kids, you know, you don’t know what life is gonna bring you. Right? Are we all prepared for that day when when somebody knocks on the door, and God willing, that won’t happen for a long time, but you never know. And it will happen to all of us. So I would like to do something, you know, over the next five years, I would like to do the things that I want to do. So that means and you guys might be the first to know this in our, in our group that I am in talks right now in to transition the firm, probably going to be some kind of merger. And I will be doing, you know, a lot more marketing stuff, meeting clients, and meeting other lawyers to try and continue to do what I’d like to do. I actually have thought about also teaching just a little bit at a college I may do that. So you know, I’m preparing myself to do the things that right now I really enjoy. And that’s marketing. And I think the firm is where we’re in very. Our discussions with with other parties are going along very well. So I really think this is going to be a reality. We’ll take a
Jim Hacking
brief pause for word from
Unknown Speaker
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Jim Hacking
we’re back on the maximum lawyer podcast with our good friend Neil, we would just reach in marketing. And I definitely want to talk to you about that. Because I know you’re a student of school marketing and that you’ve segwayed into new school marketing. Talk to us a little bit about your mind when it comes to marketing a law firm.
Neal Goldstein
You know, it’s funny, I was listening to your to your great episode was John Jantsch. And I mean, he hit the nail on the head there. And that is, you know, digital marketing is great. The Reach is great. And I love it, I absolutely love it. But at the end of the day, at least, you know, for most of us, you have to meet the client, the client has to see you at some point. And if you’re not going to sharpen the saw, as we say, with respect to those things, meeting clients seeing them, then you’ve got a problem. You know, people want to do business with people that they like that they trust. And if you can’t put that together, then you’re going to have a problem no matter how good your website is. So you know, I’m a true believer in face to face communication with clients. You know, I’ve done a number of YouTube videos, and a number of blogs about the biggest problem that clients have with lawyers, which is what lack of communication, but my feeling always is client calls, pick up the effing phone, talk to them. If you can’t talk to them, right away, talk to them, you know, in a few hours, but talk to the client. I can’t tell you how many clients have called me and I’ve taken away cases from lawyers, big lawyers, much bigger than me who are leading because they’ve never met their lawyer. They only seen their lawyer once in two years. They don’t talk to them. They can’t get to them. That’s not who I am. And it’s worked out for me very, very well listen, I will be the first one to tell you. I’m not a great lawyer. I’m a good lawyer, but not a great lawyer. And I accept that. But I’m well liked. And I’m trusted by all my clients, 99% of them. And it served me very well. So for me, it’s always important to maintain and I tell this to the rest of the team. I tell the team, we have what we call a Hey, call, how are you? And those calls have to be made regularly. And clients love that. It’s important to them. And it makes me more authentic to the client. You know, I’ll just leave you with one one other story on this subject. I still go to my dentist, who I went to 30 years ago. Why? How well do I how well do I know how how great he did in dental school? Is he the best dentist in the world? I have no idea. He could he could have failed 10 subjects. I have really no idea. But I do know that when I go there, he makes me comfortable. I like him. He does the work competently? Because, you know, I never had a problem. It’s a comfort level that you have to have with your lawyer. And are you doing enough to put that together? That’s important.
Tyson Mutrux
I love it. I love that message. Another question when it comes to marketing, and when asked you about is you’ve done one of those nice, glitzy, glamorous looking videos over the overview videos, it looks amazing. Can you talk a little bit about the ROI or just the feedback that you’ve gotten from from that video?
Neal Goldstein
Yeah, it’s hard to give you an ROI. Because you can’t quantify a brand video, right? This is a brand that wasn’t an educational video, I know which one you’re referring to. And I spent a lot of money on it twice and a lot of money. And I have no regrets. Because when people see that video, and I’ve heard this from clients walking in, I want to meet the guy in the video. I loved your video, you know, I can relate to some of the things that you said again, building trust, and being authentic from your story. Right? That’s my story. Nobody ever nobody can create the same video as me to my story. Nobody could write that that story. It’s my story. And so I can tell you based on clients that have come in that I’ve met, you know, the one of the first things they would say is what they do say, I loved your video. It was great. It was great. Now, do I know whether that was the tipping point for them to choose me over somebody else? I don’t know. But I have to believe that it was a significant factor.
Jim Hacking
Alright, now I’m going to ask you a question types and ask people all the time on these questions. And that is, what advice would you have? For a 2020? Neil Goldstein, if you’re graduating from law school in 2020? And you’re starting your own firm, what would you what advice would you have for that person?
Neal Goldstein
Okay, great question, because I’m gonna give you the advice that screwed me up a couple of times. The first is, find your dollars. Meaning. Now when when I first started working for my, the predecessor firm, I became a partner, even before partner and when I was still an associate, I really wanted a big firm. And I wanted a glitzy firm. And I wanted, you know, somebody to walk in and see glass conference rooms and nice carpeting and nice pictures on the wall. And lots of people working for me. That’s what I wanted. And that’s what I got. And I got a lot of problems from that too. Because at the end of the day, while it’s important to have a nice presentation, you have to mine your dollars. Because let me tell you, as a young attorney, I tell this to a lot of young lawyers, it’s not always going to be a good year. Even after you have good years, you’re thinking, Okay, this is I’ve got this down now. No, it will rain, I guarantee it. guarantee that you will have bad years, and are you prepared. And so if you still making payments on things that you purchased, or you have a rent, that’s crazy, because you want them to be in the class a building, you’re going to have a problem. What’s my point? My point is be very, very careful about expansions and how you do it, be very mindful of the dollars because they that will, as it did with me seep into the household. And before you know it, holy shit, I don’t have enough money saved for my kids college, or, you know, we can’t take a vacation unless I put it on a credit card. You know, that’s that’s what starts happening and you don’t want that to happen. The other thing of course, I would tell a young person is what I’ve been reiterating all along and that is Digital’s great. But don’t forget the handshake. Don’t forget meeting the client. Don’t forget, you know, trying to cultivate old school clients. through, you know, through social, real social events, not digital social, because that will never hurt you, and I believe will always help you
Tyson Mutrux
know, you’re so right about the the office read and most clients don’t even care about and they don’t care what your office looks like. So it’s it’s so overrated, but call me this, you know the 1980s, Neil Goldstein had different struggles than the 2020. What do you struggle with now? Like, what’s the biggest thing that you struggle with?
Neal Goldstein
I struggle with a few things, I struggle with my health, I want to be healthy for my kids. And, you know, I want to live, that’s the truth. I want to live, I don’t want to die early. And some of that decision making is out of my hands. And I, you know, I’m not trying to be morbid here on the show, but it is reality, you know, all of us are gonna go at some point. And so when is when, and so this is, this is what I struggle with. When do I say, You know what, I don’t need any more. I’m okay. I may not be the richest guy here. But I’m okay. And so at my age, I start to think about how do I want to do this? Do I? Do I want to work until I’m 80? Every day? I’ve seen people like that? And the answer is no, do I can’t necessarily do a complete withdrawal now. But, you know, I want to start thinking about it and taking some action, because I want to spend whatever time I have, doing the things that I want to do and being with the people that I want to be with.
Jim Hacking
All right, well, we’re gonna wrap it up. And first of all, I want to let everybody know that Neil very graciously bought unbelievably five tickets to max Wah con for people that can’t afford to come. So I want to publicly thank you for that. Now, I really appreciate that. I think it goes to something else that I want to touch on. And that is the value of mental potential, ie, we’re way too late having on the show, talk to us a little bit about mentors and sort of that idea of giving back.
Neal Goldstein
Oh, I love it, I love it. I just absolutely love talking to young people, and trying to help them where I can. I’m involved, you know, in, in the local multiple sclerosis group. And multiple sclerosis, of course, is an illness that affects many, many people. And one of the things that I said to the director was I want to talk to the young people who are in the families of people who have been affected with with Ms. And, you know, I want to try and and be there and to give whatever assistance and help I can. And so I really do like giving back because I have to believe that that’s part of my journey, having gone through some very difficult moments, if I can share that with some young people, you know, or people don’t have to be that young. I mean, if somebody’s you know, in their 20s, or 30s, and is an attorney and is struggling, I love doing that, too. I love talking to young lawyers, and giving them some advice from some stupid things that I’ve done. challenges that I’ve went through, and how calming and, and how good is it to hear somebody else say, You know what, my credit card got declined to, you know, it does, it makes a difference in your life. You know, and if I if I can continue to do that, I’d be very happy.
Tyson Mutrux
Great stuff. That’s a good way to wrap up the podcast. I do want to wrap things up before do remind everybody did go to the Facebook group, there’s a lot of great activity going on there. A lot of great information being shared. And I also want to remind everyone to go and register for Max law con 2020. We’re gonna have a ton of people there. It’s gonna we’re gonna have a lot of great vendors. A lot of great speakers. This can be fantastic. Jimmy, what is your hack of the week,
Jim Hacking
now that our Facebook group has grown we actually have people in most major markets around the country and I hack of the week is to connect with those people. When you go into town. It’s easy to just dive in your hotel, your work town, I was lucky enough. And I’ve done this many times with many of our members, but I was lucky enough to have the best meal I’ve ever had. And one of the best conversations I’ve ever had with went to Long Island last year for a case. Neil and I went out to dinner, we had a big tomahawk steak that we split. And we had a great we had a great time and we talked for about three hours. And I think that it’s so easy to get caught up in the digital but Neil’s right. There’s no substitute for human connection for shaking hands for giving hugs and having a meal together.
Tyson Mutrux
Love it. Love it. All right, Neil. So we always ask our guests to give a tip or hack of the week. Do you have a tip or a hack for us?
Neal Goldstein
I do. Because I My memory is starting to go on me and because I have ideas that pop into my head at the worst times but constantly I use an app called otter, Otter voice digital. And it is, it is a great way of speaking your mind very quickly. It actually records all everything that you say in text format. It’s searchable. And if you’re having during an interview or a podcast, it actually separates the voices. So it works out very well. And there is a free portion and a paid portion. But it’s worked out really well for me either for a speaking event or a podcast, or whatever, whatever your needs are.
Tyson Mutrux
Very good stuff. I use otter as well to really get out. Alright, so my tip of the week is a book that my mom gave me, and it’s called the coffee bean. And it’s it’s just, it’s a really simple lesson that they’re really, really easy read. I mean, you could probably read it in, I don’t know, probably 30 minutes. It’s a really tiny book. But just in a nutshell, you know, you look at a coffee bean, and really all the power is inside the coffee bean. And you don’t really get that power out until you boil it down. And so it’s just a really cool book really neat lesson. It’s like kind of like the book you know, who moved your cheese kind of a thing. It’s really simple thing. But it was Neil, thank you so much for coming on. It’s been a lot of lot of fun. And I’m just glad that we were able to share your story with people.
