In today’s episode we’re throwing it back to one of Jim and Tyson’s favorite episodes: #175 Disruption and Divorce.
In this episode, Jim and Tyson join Erin Levine, a family law specialist located in Oakland CA. With Hello Divorce, she guides users through divorce with DIY and DIFY options as well as access to fixed-fee, on-demand lawyers through her firm Levine Family Law Group.
To keep on maximizing your firm, stay connected!
Resources:
- Join the Guild Membership
- Subscribe to the Maximum Lawyer YouTube Channel
- Follow us on Instagram
- Join the Facebook Group
- Follow the Facebook Page
- Follow us on LinkedIn
Transcript: Max Law Rewind: Disruption and Divorce
Erin Levine
So you don’t have to go full force into I’m going to open another company and build a web application, there’s plenty of things that you can do to start on the innovation track. And to recognize that laws are really shifting from a seller’s market to a buyers. And eventually, we’re all going to need to make changes or will become irrelevant.
Unknown Speaker
Well, I’m your law firm the right way. This is the maximum lawyer podcast, podcast, your hosts, Jim hacking and Tyson metrics. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.
Jim Hacking
So maximum lawyers, Tyson, I wanted to hop on real quick and give you an intro to this new concept we have going called Maximum lawyer rewind. There we go maximum lawyer rewind. This is a brilliant idea. From our very own Becca Eberhart and Tyson, they come up with a lot of good ideas. And one of them is that we want to bring you some of our best episodes, some of our favorite episodes. And I haven’t seen the list of what those episodes are. But I sure want to make sure that law firm Roulette is on the list, because that’s one of my all time favorite episodes.
Tyson Mutrux
Jim has not seen the list because he’s not completed his portion of it. But i i The first one I picked was the roulette. So, website roulette, it was the very first one that I picked. And I picked a few other ones. And there’s some really, really good ones in there that I had completely forgotten about. And Jim, so you need to finish the list. And so that people can can listen to the rest of our top 10 Maximum way rewind episodes. Alright, I’ll do it. Alright, enjoy everybody.
Jim Hacking
You’re back on the maximum lawyer Podcast. I’m Jim hacking. And Tyson metrics age me. Hey, Tyson, longtime no talk.
Tyson Mutrux
Age. Do you notice I changed a little bit. I didn’t say what’s up, Jimmy. Hey, Jimmy. I should have said anything. I should just let people comment on it. But yeah, I feel like we’ve been talking a lot lately. Like like every day or every other day. It’s kind of not. We recorded an episode
Jim Hacking
earlier today, which we don’t usually do. And then we’ve got all these plans for Max Lacanian for the ZAP Athan. So we haven’t talked a lot.
Tyson Mutrux
We have a lot going on, man, the ZAP is on him pretty sweet. We’ve had quite a few people buy tickets already. So I’m, I’m really excited. And it set aside the other people attending which is exciting by itself, but just sitting down for two days. And working on automation. And Zapier just makes me so happy. So I’m really excited about it.
Jim Hacking
Well, the funny thing is, is that it all got started in my brain because I wanted to go work with Kelsey for two days. And I said, Well, why not make an event out of it? So that’s sort of where it all came from.
Tyson Mutrux
I love it. It’s great. I think it’s something that people have been wanting for a while they want that sort of workshop. So I think it’s gonna be gonna be awesome. And if people are thinking, Oh, my gosh, quit talking about this stuff. It’s it’s not because we’re trying to promote it. It’s really not I, I don’t I want to see people there. But honestly, it’s something that’s just gonna be awesome. Anyway, so we’re not just talking about this just to promote it. So don’t think that it’s something that I’m just really excited about. But, Jimmy, do you want to introduce our guest?
Jim Hacking
I sure do. And we were talking about this app Athan right before he got on the call. Her name is Aaron Levine. She is the founder and CEO of Hello divorce. She’s a certified family law specialist out of Oakland, CA. Aaron, welcome to the show.
Erin Levine
Hi, welcome. It’s so nice to be here. I’m super excited about the Zapier, Tyson that Zapier.
Tyson Mutrux
Oh my gosh, you know, a second person to correct me on the podcast. I’m just so used to saying Zapier. I’m so sorry.
Erin Levine
Well, but we talked about that. So that should give you a clue as to how we should pronounce it.
Tyson Mutrux
I completely agree. I couldn’t I could not disagree with you. Did I completely agree with you. But I just It’s stuck in my brain, Zapier. And so I just I just I just say it. I’m sorry.
Erin Levine
Well, we’ll let you we’ll forgive you this one. You know, you said you were
Tyson Mutrux
I thought we had an agreement that we were going to take this out on Jim and not know
Jim Hacking
what’s going on here.
Erin Levine
I know. I know. I lost my way. I just I heard you say that. It triggered something inside me and I just went for it. But that’s it.
Tyson Mutrux
I’m gonna take a shot at Jim because Jim wants to be a California boy. So bad, so bad. So he sends me a text last week about being in LAX. Instead of just saying he’s in an airport, you got to use lax. Just a second ago. He says Oakland CA like it’s a cool thing. Like he wants to be a California boy. Jim San Diego is coming you’re gonna make it you’re gonna get there. It’s coming. Okay, I know you want to move out there. So if anybody’s got a condo, available for you him to live and I’m sure Amani would love kicking him out. It was all true.
Erin Levine
So available in Oakland actually Alameda and well, Oakland gets a bad rap, but it is pretty darn awesome. So hopefully you’ll visit us out here sometime.
Tyson Mutrux
Nice. All right, we’ll get this thing going. Alright. So Aaron, talk about your story talked about how you got to where you are, where you started, and all that good stuff.
Erin Levine
Sure. So I have been practicing law since 2005. In 2009 10 years ago, I opened Levine Family Law Group, which is a full service family law firm handling complex and content contested cases, ranging from divorce and child custody to donor agreements and prenups. And California’s third parent law, we have six lawyers. And at some point, about two and a half years ago, I just got really bored with not only the practice of law, but burnt out as well. And I had this awesome team. And they were all depending on me for not only income, but for a job. And so I knew I wanted to find a way to incorporate them, incorporate them into what I wanted to do next. They didn’t know what that was. And ultimately, what it was, is a technology company that I started Hello divorce, which helps self represented litigants affordable affordably and easily navigate the divorce process with a web based application that they built along with access to manage legal services, as needed. So a subscription model paired with ala carte to be legal services.
Jim Hacking
So I definitely want to get to that. And I know we’re going to talk a lot about Hello, divorce your technology website. But talk to us a little bit about that time when you were frustrated, and what was what was grinding you down.
Erin Levine
So I have two small children at home. They’re now four and seven. And I was working really late hours. I was going to court all the time, which I know for some people works beautifully. But after doing it for, you know, 15 years, it was tiring and exhausting. And it wasn’t really feeding my soul. At the same time. I live in Northern California where almost all of our clients or at least a big percentage of them are in tech. And so they were asking for new and different types of services. Some of which is as was as simple as I’d like a fixed fee uncontested divorce. And with the overhead and systems that I had in place, I could do it, but it wasn’t really going to make us a lot of money. And so I knew there was an I really believed that there was a new way to incorporate technology with the law and drive costs down for the consumers, but still make a good living as a lawyer. I just didn’t know what that would look like. But that’s what I really started to invest my time and energy into.
Tyson Mutrux
So it’s interesting, I heard on a podcast the other day about everyone thought that the advent of of ATMs, the bank teller was going to go away. And the reality is, is that since the advent of the ATM, the number of bank tellers has increased quite a bit, their job is just different. And so I think that’s a really fascinating thing. And I think people are really worried about technology in the legal field and how it’s going to really, you know, destroy a lot of firms that are successful now and maybe in 10 years, they won’t exist anymore. Have you given any of that thought? I know that that’s sort of a deep thing. But have you ever given any of that thought and what are your thoughts on it?
Erin Levine
Absolutely. I mean, that was one of my biggest goal here was to not only create a new way to deliver legal services, but to create a new sustainable way for lawyers to practice and consumer facing areas of law with out overly exerting themselves without burning out and without limiting them. So the income of an eight hour workday, I wanted to find a way that lawyers could make as much or more money, but not necessarily by billing by the hour or just doing that kind of work, the traditional status quo full representation work.
Jim Hacking
You’re sitting there and you realize that you’re burnt out and you don’t necessarily like the way things are going and you decide that Based on all these questions you’ve had from technologists about doing something better, what steps did you take at first to get started on the process?
Erin Levine
Well, the first thing I needed to do was to find out if there really was a market for something different. I knew that in my bubble there was, but I wasn’t particularly sure if the rest of California or the country had a need for this. And so one of the first things I did was a lot of research on the average length of divorce around how many self represented litigants there are around the kind of money that illegal zoom or a divorce right or complete case was paying an advertising because I figured if they were paying a ton of money on Pay Per Click, there was probably a pretty darn good market for at least divorce online. And so once I figured out, hey, there’s definitely a market here, the next step was to find out what exactly consumers needed and wanted. And so I worked with a design firm, outside the legal industry, to survey hundreds of people who had either recently completed their divorce were in the throes of divorce, or were considering divorce, to find out what it is they felt like they needed, what costs they felt they could spend, how important technology was to them, whether or not they needed to human connection, all of those things. And then once I had that data, I was able to start designing what is now hello, divorce.
Tyson Mutrux
I think it’s phenomenal. And before we get to know what happened next, I think it will be helpful, because I think a lot of people want to do that sort of that research. Can you talk people logistically through how they should do it or kind of using how you did it? Because I think people kind of get bogged down in the details. Oh, my gosh, how do I how do I do this? Can you talk about that a little bit, too?
Erin Levine
Yeah, absolutely. So I, the first thing I did was just make a list of all the things I wanted to find out if there was numbers on and I did it in a few different ways. One is obviously just to look at US census data. The other is to ask my colleagues and other states, for example, cam lever 10 in Texas was able to show me that right on the Texas state legal website, there was a lot of statistics and I needed. And then I also reached out to companies and startups that were in legal technology, who had written white papers on issues like access to justice and legal technology, so that I didn’t need to recreate the wheel. And I got a lot of great information from them. And kind of went with that I’m still researching on a regular basis. I’m still googling almost all the time and hitting up practicing lawyers, as well as people in the legal technology industries, to continue to figure out what it is that our market is and how to best serve that market.
Jim Hacking
One of the great things about having this podcast is we get to talk to smart people like you and ask them questions that that occurred to us. That’s the great thing about a podcast. And so Aaron has, have you given any thought to teaching lawyers how to do what you did?
Erin Levine
I definitely given thought to it. And it’s something that my mom reminds me of daily, for whatever reason, she finds it really important that I either consult or teach. I love to share information. And I’m always happy to do that. But I definitely don’t think I’m at the place yet where I would be spending a lot of time on speaking or conferencing or workshopping partially because I’m still developing my model. And I’m still running the law firm and the tech company as well as having two kids at home. So I’m pretty slammed. But like I said, I’m I love talking about this. I can’t tell you how many people I spoke to at the maximum law conference. were, you know, we exchanged ideas and talked about different ways to deliver. I mean, you guys have it right? Because in the personal injury space and other areas of law, built billing by the hour isn’t as relevant and so you’re not necessarily limited by that eight hour or 10 hour 12 hour day. That is family law attorneys and landlord tenant attorneys and sometimes bankruptcy attorneys in the state. planning attorneys we are. And so I really love to share information with other lawyers as to how are they getting around that so we can maximize our earnings. And also give people what they really want and what they’re pushing for. So that was a long way of saying that, yes, we’d love to teach at some point and hopefully make a difference and really be able to share this new way of practicing law as delivering legal services. But right now, I’m just pretty much in it.
Tyson Mutrux
You’re definitely in the middle of it, you’ve got like, so let’s say that you were starting your practice today, and you didn’t have all this other stuff going on. So you’re you’re fresh out of law school, or you’re just getting done working for another firm? How would you start out today? So basically, what I’m asking for is what advice would you give people that are starting their firms today? Oh,
Erin Levine
I would definitely find a mentor. And one really good way of doing that, because you want to find someone who you connect with not just, you know, legally or business wise, but you want someone that is going to be a personal connection, someone that hopefully will become a friend. And a great way of doing that is going on Twitter, and following a bunch of different lawyers and seeing what their ideas are. And then following up with them, I would definitely be looking to maximum lawyer, I would be looking to lawyers, I would be looking to different online resources that could help me build a new practice without reinventing the wheel because you guys have worked so hard on coming up with systems to make a new firm work. And then the next thing I would do is really build myself an online presence. And I’d really look to what it is that I want to niche and not just the subject matter, but what type of people in what socio economic status do I want to reach? And how can I do that? And I’d really start building my messaging and my online presence around that. Now that might be very different from how a lot of people establish a practice, but that is what I would do if I were starting out today.
Unknown Speaker
Hey, guys, it’s Becca here. I’m sure you’ve heard Jim and Tyson mentioned the guild on the podcast and in the Facebook group. That’s because we’re seeing some really exciting things happening with guild members and their businesses. The Guild is this perfect mix of a community group coaching and a mastermind. Inside you’ll gain support, tap into a network of connections, and continue learning a common theme among successful entrepreneurs. There are so many benefits inside the guild, including weekly live events and discounts to all maximum lawyer events, head over to maximum lawyer.com forward slash the guild to check out all of the benefits and watch a few testimonials from current members. Investing in a community is like the self care of business ownership. Being in a community with other people who get it is crucial when you’re creating a rock solid foundation to build your business on one that’s strong enough to withstand setbacks, transitions and growth. So head to maximum lawyer.com and click on the guild page to join us. Now let’s get back to the episode.
Jim Hacking
You’re listening to the maximum lawyer podcast today. Our guest is Aaron Levine. She’s the CEO and Queen of Hello, divorce. Aaron, talk to us a little bit about how the website works and what clients or customers I guess of Hello divorce.com can do when it comes to processing their divorce with your help.
Erin Levine
Sure. So at Levine Family Law Group, we always handled contested divorces still do. And the average client spend at our law firm and Oakland is 17,500. So the client spends the average clients spend on Hello divorce is 1500. So as you can imagine volume is very, very, very important when it comes to making money on Hello divorce. And so a huge part of my day and week and month is focused around marketing. And one way we were able to get a lot of consumers interested and excited about Hello divorce was that we offer a free membership. So what that means is once you sign up, you have access to loads of resources and tools and worksheets that break divorce down into really easy, understandable bite sized pieces. You can do things like calculate child support or spousal support or develop your own parenting plan. But once they’re a free member at any point, they can upgrade to a paid membership. And, you know, a good percentage do. The other thing is, is that we offer a free 15 minute call. So when people take us up on that, for whatever reason, they want to connect with us, tell us a little bit about where they are in the process so that we can help assess their needs and tell them which membership plan we think works best for them, we have a really high conversion rates. So that’s been incredibly important to the user experience. For people that have a divorce, that is fairly easy, amicable. And they have the time energy to put a little bit of work in to their divorce, they often choose our divorce navigator, which is our $99 a month option. The divorce Navigator is a web application built out in Python, and it allows the user to navigate the divorce process start to finish. So each step they follow a guided interview, which populates their form. And that part of the app is where we integrate with document, which is my favorite software ever. And then once you fill out the form in each step, you work with our interactive guide to file them and serve them and move on to the next step. With the divorce navigator, most people upgrade, meaning they purchase a fixed fee for us to file and serve their documents for them. Because they don’t mind using the app to prepare all their forms. But they just don’t want to handle the logistical stuff, especially because it varies in California and many other states from county to county. So there’s no possible way I can give perfect steps there. And then our divorce plus and divorce with benefits packages are much more hands on in California and Arizona and some of the other states, you can have a legal document prepared. This is similar to a paralegal. But they aren’t supervised by lawyers. And they can walk clients through the divorce process start to finish. And it’s considered non legal service that’s overseen by the businesses and professionals code as opposed to our legal regulations. So our divorce plus and divorces benefit is a flat fee of 2500 or 3000, depending on which one they choose. Or they can pay it in installments, which makes the fee go up by $500. And with the divorce plus in divorce with benefits, the legal document assistant uses technology to make it super easy for the client to enter in information and documentation. And then they take it from there and handle the entire divorce. And with the divorce with benefits, the client gets an additional two hours with a lawyer to receive coaching or document review or whatever it is that they need. That felt like a really long description. Do you want me to do that? Again? Much shorter?
Tyson Mutrux
No, that was that was perfect. I think that that was a it was a great explanation. And in here’s a question I’ve got about that. Because I think your your explanation was perfect. Here’s my question. Are you able to track? I’m sure you are. But I don’t know if you know what the results are yet. But are you able to track find out the results of the client satisfaction per level that you have?
Erin Levine
Yeah, so we’re tracking out a million different things, which is super exciting and real time. One of the things that we’re tracking is of course the average client spends at and what people are purchasing most. We also have all the CART services. So people often just purchase a one off thing like hey, we went to mediation i We have an agreement. I think it’s a good one but I’d love to talk to a lawyer about it just to make sure. And then we are also of course tracking customer experience and feedback, testimonials and all that good stuff, just NPS tracking are each of the level of services that we provide?
Jim Hacking
Aaron, do you separate the employees from the two companies and I’m wondering which statements were the others?
Erin Levine
Hello, divorce. Employees are definitely the most laid back. Happy, just in general feeling good people, because for a lot of reasons, number one is they get to work completely remotely, they get to set their own hours. Most people don’t necessarily want to talk to a lawyer between nine to five. So if you’re a hello divorce employee, and you just put your kids down at 730s for bedtime, and now you want to make some extra money for an hour or two can so there’s an incredible amount of flexibility working for Hello divorce are with Hello divorce. And you also get finality and you’re also working with happier clients. In general, the vast majority of people that are coming to Hello divorce for help are people that are either already have an agreement with their spouse or strongly believed they’ll be able to work towards that agreement. They’re more focused on themselves and reorganizing their lives and revenge against their acts, or bitterness or whatever it might be. And so it’s just more pleasant. Now, Levine law lawyers, we have two different types, right? We have the type of Levine law lawyers that deal with all our contested cases. And then we have Levine law lawyers that do the coaching and legal services arm of Hello divorce because as no a tech company can’t be split or offer legal services. And so when people purchase legal services through Hello, divorce are actually purchasing with the law firm. And in California, that would be a Family Law Group. So I think I mean, my ultimately my goal is that everyone at the Levine Family Law Group is practicing law will ultimately be there simply just support the orders that come in through Hello divorce. And that we won’t do a lot or any contested actions, because it just appears to me that the employees and contractors that work with or through Hello, divorce, are enjoying it more.
Tyson Mutrux
So I’m so curious, what is your typical day look like? Because it seems like I mean, like this is all really highly technical from a technology standpoint. But like, do you practice much law during the day? Or do you mostly work looking at the numbers, making sure the firm’s running properly? What? How’s that work?
Erin Levine
Well, at any given time, I have a few, maybe a handful of cases. But I don’t practice a lot of law these days. I spend most of my time managing the law firm, but really actually, some of my time managing law firm. I got an incredible amount of help from Billy Trask to and Chad Burton, that modern law practice who pretty much have turned the law firm in to lean mean machine. So it pretty much manages itself. But for the most part, I’m working on Hello, divorce, everything from scaling our marketing spend and optimizing for conversion, which is new, because up until this point, we weren’t spending money on marketing, to adjusting the user experience redesign, designing a portion of the app doing podcasts like you’re applying for grants or other investment money. It’s just a really busy sort of exciting time for me, I get to spend a lot more time on the entrepreneurial and creative side, which is what I love best.
Jim Hacking
I know that well. I was talking to my son Yousuf the other day about disruption in the legal field. And one of the things we were talking about was the doing away with the prohibition of non lawyers investing in law firms. And I’m wondering, Where do you think since you’re at the at the epicenter of technology and law, where do you think things are headed with law firms and investment?
Erin Levine
Well, first of all, I would say that this has been so challenging. The biggest amount of money that I’ve spent on this project outside development has been on ethics lawyers, and trying to ensure that we are doing this in a way that won’t get shut down by any state bar that we’re in. It’s been really frustrating and hard. We started out as a law firm which was fantastic but and easy. But then of course, we weren’t able to take any investments, or really advertise or market the way that we wanted to the way that we felt that consumers would connect with. So that’s when we split the two companies. And I mean, the writing’s on the wall, right? Like, look at all the states that are now exploring different types of regulations and how we can deregulate and focus on the client experience, as opposed to only protecting the lawyer status quo. But in my opinion, is not happening fast enough. And that’s frustrating. And I really think that it stifles innovation, I look at what Legal Zoom is doing here versus what they’re doing in Europe. And, you know, what they’ve done in Europe is, you know, buy up law firms and really connect the technology, the online legal piece with good, important legal advice, which is exactly what we should be doing here. And we can, and I am, but it hasn’t been easy at all. And it’s a little bit scary, like no one wants to risk their legal degree, excuse me their license. You know, that’s just been incredibly frustrating. And I’m really hoping that we continue on this trend this trajectory, to deregulate, and to refocus our efforts on how we can oversee the profession.
Tyson Mutrux
I mean, this is just so exciting. To me, I think it’s something that, that you’re doing something that’s changing the law, I think it’s so awesome. We, and I think that sometimes we just get stuck in a rut. And I think that the law firms get stuck in a rut, and it’s so cool seeing people like you and delete rasio and others. really changing things. It’s so so cool. They’re on my list. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.
Erin Levine
I was gonna say is, um, yeah, as you know, I’m not alone. And it is so exciting for me to see what other people are doing out there. And if creating your own web application feels a little daunting, at this point, it’s not the first thing you need to do, or the only thing, right, there’s building online course, or using your existing customers at your law firm trying out some new type of technology to see if it resonates with them. And if it’s helping to, you know, get things done. So you don’t have to go full force into I’m going to open another company and build a web application, there’s plenty of things that you can do to start on the innovation track. And to recognize that lies really shifting from a seller’s market to a buyers. And eventually, we’re all going to need to make changes or will become irrelevant.
Tyson Mutrux
Such a good point, especially your point about just it’s sort of these incremental steps, you know, bit by bit by bit, I think that that’s, that’s a really good, really good message. So here’s my question. That’s actually a pretty good segue. Because you’re building this thing, you built this thing. It’s pretty awesome. And most people that build technology companies are looking to sell their technology company. Is that something you’re looking to do? Or do you want to stick this thing up? In forever? I mean, what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, so
Erin Levine
no time soon. And I have worked really, really, really hard to bootstrap and apply for grants and do a friends and family round so that I wouldn’t have to give up a significant portion of ownership because it is really important to me not just to meet the consumer needs. But like I said earlier to show lawyers that this is a new sort of sustainable way to practice. That’s awesome. And that makes money. So in the near future, I don’t have any plans of, you know, seeking someone to or company to acquire. But I think I mean, like, that’s the dream, right? Ultimately, that would be incredible. I’d love to be able to have an awesome exit, and then focus my time and energy on something else that I love and that I’m passionate about. So I guess we’ll just have to see.
Jim Hacking
Alright, so for my last question, you touched on it briefly a little bit earlier. And that’s your, your Twitter presence. I think you do a great job of spreading the word on Twitter of posting things that are both interesting and sometimes related to Hello, divorce, talk to our listeners a little bit about how they can amp up their Twitter game.
Erin Levine
Sure, so I use Twitter a little differently than I use my other social media channels channels. So and part of that was just by trial and error when people follow me on Instagram. That’s a awesome way for us to get clients Some users, but what I found really early on was that I wasn’t getting clients and users of our app on Twitter. So instead, I tried to focus my efforts on really building a community and networking, and becoming a thought leader, and sometimes even sharing resources that might be helpful to people. So I think with Twitter, it’s really about finding the hashtags and things that you’re interested in, whether it be legal tech, or law, Twitter or access to justice, following great people. And being authentic. I think that you have such a short, you know, you only have so many words to get out your point. And you have this incredible opportunity to share what’s going on in your mind or your work. And so if you are authentic and share your position, you’re going to connect with like minded people. And you’re also going to be able to connect or hear from people that don’t feel the same way which believe me, there are tons of haters of Hello divorce to primarily lawyers, and sometimes journalists who see it as a social ill like I’m somehow promoting divorce. But that gives me a lot of great opportunity to think about what we do play the devil’s advocate and learn what is working and what isn’t working for people in our industry. So I love Twitter. I think it’s awesome. I think you guys do an awesome job with all that stuff, too. And, yeah, just keep doing it. You got to post you can’t shy away from it, you’ve got to be consistent.
Tyson Mutrux
You know, Jim, and I talk about this all the time Haters gonna hate you ever, like, whenever you get any bit of success, other lawyers are gonna hate on you, they’re going to talk bad about you behind your back. Even the ones that you think your friends, they’re going to talk bad about you. It’s just a part of being successful. I think any successful person is going to tell you that they’re gonna, you’re gonna get some hate because there are a lot of jealous people out there. There’s also a lot of people that are going to be rooting you on cheering you on and wishing you the best. So you’re not worried about the haters. But I do want to wrap things up. Before I do. I want to remind everybody go to the Facebook group. Get involved there a lot of great information being shared. Also register for our zap Athan January 23 24th. In Phoenix, Arizona, it’s gonna be a two day workshop on automation and Zapier. And so get get involved there. And then also remember to register for Max law con 2020. All that information is on the Facebook group. Jimmy, what’s your hack of the week?
Jim Hacking
Well, first, let me just say thanks so much, Aaron for coming on the show. It was great having you here. I’m really excited about all the cool things you’re doing. My hack of the week is old school though. I’m sitting here looking at my November draft of my new physical newsletter we’ve been working with Annika bluesky from marketing for the last three months. And to say that it is painless to prepare this newsletter is an understatement. She goes through and finds interesting things from our Facebook feed from our YouTube from our our blog, and she puts it all into the proper format and makes a really stylish website or newsletter. You know, our friends, Don and Ed McLaury use them and I’ve been real happy with the job that Annika has been able to do for us these last couple months.
Tyson Mutrux
Very good stuff. All right. Erin, do you have a tip or hack for us?
Erin Levine
Well, I’ve just been obsessed with Zapier lately, ever since I saw that you guys are gonna have this workshop. I’m so super excited. I call it magical and the gift that keeps on giving. So that’s been my focus this week. And I’ve been zapping orders and information like where new signups came from, and whether or not they followed up with an order and how long the sales period was between signup and order and then obsessing over that data that we’re collecting. So no, nothing in particular, but I’ve just been having a really good time with Zapier.
Tyson Mutrux
Awesome. All right. So I like I like making money. I like saving money and I want to save you also money. I know before I’ve talked about how you need to look at your bank account, your bank statement and get rid of all those things that you don’t need to save costs. I’ve got another trick for you. And anybody that knows knows me or has dealt with me as a vendor, you know, I’m going to negotiate absolutely everything. And so, here’s my advice to you go through all the things that you do know you need. Alright, so you’ve gotten rid of all the expenses that you no longer needs you save yourself some money there, but then go back and negotiate the bills your fees with all these vendors and I just saved myself before this call about 1500 bucks for the year, just dealing with one vendor, I’m not gonna mention the vendor, but it’s just it’s just a matter of going back. Usually they’re happy to negotiate with you to keep you as a customer. So go in negotiate that you can save yourself, some of you 10s of 1000s of dollars a year by going back and renegotiating those agreements, even if you have no plan on leaving. And so go back, negotiate those. So that is my tip of the week. Erin, thank you so much for
Erin Levine
coming. Oh, wait. I just, I just thought of one, okay, the job. And maybe you all already know this. But if you have any financial information, or passwords or something like that, that you need to get to an outsource assistant, or a friend or a family member, you can use one time secret.com It’s free. And you put in all the information you want, and how long that information can stay on the site. And then it generates a link. And that’s what you share with your friend or family member employees just the link to one time secret, and it’s really awesome and really easy.
Tyson Mutrux
That’s Jimmy, you and I couldn’t use it earlier today so that we would apply that this morning. Had you been on this morning, so that would have been perfect. Aaron, thank you so much. It’s a great tip. This has been great. So thank you so much for coming on. We really appreciate it.
Erin Levine
Absolutely. I look forward to seeing you guys in person and I don’t know what is it a month or two? You bet. So you guys, see ya.
