This week on the show we have James F. Aspell, the principal and managing attorney of the firm which he started in 2006 following 20 years of litigation practice in a mid-size firm in Hartford, Connecticut. Jim focuses his practice in the areas of worker’s compensation and personal injury litigation, insurance subrogation law, social security disability law, personal bankruptcy, and residential real estate.
In today’s episode we’ll talk about starting from scratch, his decision to niche down, and his current transition.
Hacking’s Hack:
Jim recommends the book Built to Sell, it’s about how to set up your
company to be saleable when the time comes for you to get out of the firm.
Jim’s Tip:
Get an accountant right off the bat. I would urge anybody, considering doing that, to get a good accountant that’s actually familiar with small business. They can guide you on the type of entity choice to pick S Corp, LLC, and can put you on the right path in terms of payroll so you don’t run afoul of payroll taxes and those kind of things.
For more content from us please subscribe to our YouTube Channel.
Don’t forget to sign up for MaxLawCon20!
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/maximum-lawyer-conference-2020-tickets-62992819218
Thanks so much for listening to the show! If you want to know more about this and keep on maximizing your firm, please join our Facebook Group or like us on Facebook and comment!
You can also go to MaximumLawyer.com or, if you’d prefer, email us at: info@maximumlawyer.com
Interested in being on the show? Shoot us an email at support@maximumlawyer.com or message us on Facebook!
Resources:
- Join the Guild Membership
- Subscribe to the Maximum Lawyer YouTube Channel
- Follow us on Instagram
- Join the Facebook Group
- Follow the Facebook Page
- Follow us on LinkedIn
Transcripts: “Niching Down” with Jim Aspell
Unknown Speaker
Run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum lawyer podcast, podcast. Your hosts, Jim hacking and Tyson nutrix. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.
Jim Hacking
Welcome back to the maximum lawyer Podcast. I’m Jim hacking.
Tyson Mutrux
And I’m Tyson mujer. What’s up? Jimbo? What’s going on, bud?
Jim Hacking
Oh, Tyson. It’s our first I think is our first episode after the new year, at least from the first one from when we got back to work for the full week. How are you doing?
Tyson Mutrux
Good is actually we recorded the walking one last week actually. Yeah, that’ll be fun. One that is that is a fun one. Yeah, I’m doing well. How are you?
Jim Hacking
Oh, I’m great. I’m great. And I’m excited about our guests. His name is Jim ASBO. He’s a plaintiff’s attorney from Hartford, Connecticut. We were introduced to him by our friend Ryan McKean. And he’s a big fan of the show. So Jim, welcome.
Jim Aspell
Hey, good morning, guys. Thank you very much, and Happy New Year to you.
Tyson Mutrux
Happy New Year to you as well, Jim. So tell us a little bit about your background, your experience your firm and how you got to where you are now?
Jim Aspell
Do you want the long version or the short version,
Tyson Mutrux
you pick whatever version you want to pick, that’s up to you? Well, I’ll give you a blend.
Jim Aspell
And so I started practicing in 1986, which is why there can actually be a long version. And my first job out of law school I landed with a firm in Hartford was five brothers and a fourth guy who they played rugby with. And they brought me on ostensibly for the purpose of doing Avis Rent a car collections. So they had all drawer full of files of Avis Rent a car damage claims. So if you’re down, you took the collision damage waiver and your car got dinged up on a rental, I was the guy that chased you down for the money. So I did that with them for probably two years or so. They had a bit of a plaintiff’s business. It was a general practice for him, but I was doing the collections and the subrogation. Somewhere along the line, we merged with a fella who was one of the premier worker’s comp, defense attorneys in Connecticut, he had been sharing space with us. So they kind of transition me into that work, I started doing worker’s comp defense work all over the state. I did that for a number of years, Mike was with the firm, 19 years. And unfortunately, the attorney that had the worker’s comp defense business passed away unexpectedly. And through a series of unfortunate events, they let me go in 2006. So I found myself basically with a house a wife and three little kids, and no way to to support myself. I was fortunate enough to bring with me, I think it was 20, maybe 24, workers comp claimants files. So there I was sitting in my basement with these 24 files, trying to figure out what to do with myself. 2006 was sort of the cutting edge of internet advertising. My old firm hadn’t really had much faith in it, but I kind of thought the web was the way to go, transitioning away from the yellow pages at that point. So I called around and I decided to take out a find Law website. So with a credit card, and a promise, they set me up with that when I told the guy well, if you can get me on the web and get my phone ringing, I can take it from there that generated a fair amount of business, those 24 files tight be over until I kind of got underway and took it out of my basement. When I was doing my due diligence as to whether or not to find find law or not. I started calling around some of the lawyers in Hartford and I ended up with a woman they said, you know, what do you think of fine law? Have you had good luck with it? And she said, Yes, it’s fine. But what are you doing for office space, they said, Well, I’m working out of my basement at the moment. So she said it will come over here I’ve got a an attic space, and you can share space with me. So for 500 bucks a month, you can have a desk and office access to the copying machine, etc, etc. So I kind of set myself up with her. I started doing the workers comp claimants work because that’s what I like to do. But I was still sort of a jack of all trades. I was doing a bunch of real estate closings. I did a fair amount of eviction work because in my old firm, I had been the jack of all trades. I had a number of landlord clients. And I took some of that with me primarily for cash flow. So I was doing evictions, the real estate, the comp stuff that the web would bring in some plaintiffs work and a little bit of a social security disability. Somewhere along the line, I kind of figured out that riches in the niches thing. And I decided that what I really liked doing was the workers comp claimants work and the social security disability. I started concentrating on that. And over time, that’s where I’ve gotten my practice to. So at this point, I’m on my own I, the woman and I parted ways several years ago. I’ve had my own space now for nine years, doing primarily claimants workers compensation, I say that 70% of the business, some social security disability, and then I still do a little bit of chapter seven bankruptcy. It’s just one of those things that kind of dovetails into the comp and the social security disability. I do chapter seven bankruptcy like some guys do criminal law, it’s sort of a cash flow type of thing. People come in, and they, you know, they pay you in cash, and it helps pay the bills until the next case comes along, for lack of a better analogy.
Jim Hacking
So, Jim, talk to us about that mindset shift that you made, when you decided to niche down more, was it more that you’re just following where the cases were taking you? Or was it like a conscious decision that this is the kind of case that I liked, and then what kind of benefits have you found having niche down,
Jim Aspell
it was a conscious decision, actually, because it got to the point where as my practice grew, I had the luxury of doing more what I wanted to do, I didn’t have to do that landlord tenant stuff anymore. And in Connecticut, if you’re doing the landlord tenant, you’re basically committing to Monday and Tuesday morning and housing court. And it was just really kind of running running afoul with my comp business. So I started crunching the numbers, and saw where the money was coming from. And I decided that this is the way I want it to go. So I kind of made a conscious decision to concentrate on that I when I when I got my certifications, a Board Certified workers comp and Speights compensation specialist. And they started that program. I forget what year it was, but I was one of the charter members of that there’s 52 of us that do it. And I’d had a pretty good relationship with the workers comp bar, from doing the defense work all those years, the commissioners who are our administrative law judges, they knew me the defense guys knew me. And other lawyers knew me fairly well. So it got to the point where in addition to what I was bringing in, generically off the web, I started getting a fair amount of referral business from other lawyers, because comp is kind of like the redheaded stepchild of the plaintiffs bar people, they don’t enjoy doing it, it’s technical. And if you don’t know, the players, you’re really going to have a hard time with it, at least in Connecticut. So that’s kind of how I got there sort of the same story with the social security disability, fair amount of referrals on that, I get a good portion of the Social Security Disability off the web as well. I don’t run AdWords for it or anything like that. So I’m not quite sure how they’re finding me. But when I do ask them, where they come from, inevitably they say, Oh, I found you on the web. So. So that’s kind of where I am.
Tyson Mutrux
So Jim, I’m just curious, I see this board certification thing all over the place. Can you tell us what that is? Because in Missouri, we don’t have that. So what is it? And how does that benefit you from a marketing standpoint?
Jim Aspell
That’s sort of the million dollar question. The in Connecticut, that was the first board certification specialty that they established. I think there’s one for residential real estate now. And there may be one for bankruptcy. But the comp one has been around since the early 2000s, I guess. And I personally thought that it really was going to help me with the marketing, I thought it gave me an edge up, it did give you a feather in your cap as it were over the other guys that were kind of slipping around trying to do the work. But as time is going on, you know, my opinion, honestly, is that it’s more of a moneymaker for the Connecticut Bar Association. In the 15 years that I’ve been a certified specialist. I don’t think I can name one person that actually came and told me they hired me for that reason. So it’s a nice thing to put on my website. And I suppose if you’re trying to make the pitch to close a client, it’s a nice thing to be able to tell them. But at the end of the day, I don’t think it’s done me much good. It’s something you do have to pay annually. There’s pretty substantial CLE requirements that go along with it. So will I let it go? No, but does it do me much good? I’m not really sure. I think the jury’s really out on that. Jim,
Jim Hacking
I would love to hear when you moved up into that attic with that female attorney about what your technolog technology setup was and how it has changed over the years how it is now?
Jim Aspell
That’s an interesting question. Because as I was sitting in my basement trying to figure out okay, what the hell am I going to do with my life now that I’m out of a job by my old firm was basically pen and paper in terms of a software system. So I had the opportunity to start from scratch. And you know, at that point, there wasn’t a heck of a lot out there. But what I knew I wanted to do was have something that that kind of managed all aspects of the practice at once. And I was doing the residential real estate which had a very large trust account component. I was doing the landlord tenant law, which had a lot of hourly billing. And then I had the plaintiffs work, which was obviously contingent. So I googled around and I got to the point where I selected PC law, which was sort of the state of the art thing at the time. It did everything I wanted to do. It was run by a small Canadian company that had to developed it in the price point was attractive for a guy working out of his basement without much to go on. So I signed up for that. I’m still with it, believe it or not for the billing and the timekeeping, it since got bought out by LexisNexis. So that’s kind of a testament to how good of a program I think it is. But that’s where I was, I was running PC law up in the attic that did the dead end of it, that the website, and that was basically what I had. And from there, I’ve kind of come to where I am today.
Tyson Mutrux
So Jim, who all is in your firm, right? And I’m gonna have a follow up to this question. Who all is in your firm right now?
Jim Aspell
Right? It’s a moment, it’s myself in this. It’s an interesting thing. I started out for years, probably the first five years of my practice all by myself, and I was kind of a jack of all trades. I was using a typing service, you know, I dictate and I send stuff out and it would come back. They were doing the secretarial work that I wasn’t doing, it was always a pretty good hunt and peck typist. So I got by doing that. Finally, as I got busier, I picked up a girl who was a real superstar, she was a senior at Providence College wanted to go to law school, I got her to work for me, I think for 10 hours a week. And at that point, I thought I was really kind of a high roller with that, since then, that that person has transitioned to a full time paralegal. So it’s myself my full time paralegal who’s also able to cover the Workers Compensation hearings. And then I rotated my kids through in various positions, getting the medical records, doing filing things of that nature. And this past summer was the first year that we had somebody doing that full time. So the paralegal and the full time college student. At the end of the summer, the paralegal and I looked at each other, and we kind of decided, well, we’re awfully busy, and I don’t think we can get by with that seat being empty any longer. So that’s where we currently are where myself the full time paralegal. And then the full time, I guess, for lack of a better term, a call or a legal assistant to grow, we have now as a college graduate, she’ll be with me at least a year she’s looking at going to architecture school. But when she leaves, I think the plan is to keep that seat filled. So where are we at the moment is the three of us? Well, the way I look at it this year is kind of a transition or kind of a, an analyzing year for me, because I’m at the point where I really got to make a decision, am I going to scale up? Or where am I going to go? Things are busier than I ever thought they’d be. And they only seem to be getting busier, which is good. So I’ve got to make the decision as to whether I want to add on in terms of attorneys. If I think I can get by with additional support staff, I’ll have a better idea for you in June as to where I think that’s gonna go.
Tyson Mutrux
Well, it kind of plays in with my follow up question because you triggered something whenever you were talking about, you know, just you in the attic. I mean, you’ve worked for a bigger firm, I used to work for a bigger firm. And then whenever I left I had actually I also shared so wasn’t that big of a deal. But I can I can see how it can become a lonely at times. You know what I mean? Like it was a smaller firm, you’re I know, it’s been a while since you’ve worked for that previous firm, but having that bigger group of people around, sometimes it’s nice. Do you ever miss that? And so that’s why it kind of plays in with whether or not you want to grow this thing or keep it around the same size? Have you ever missed the idea of a larger firm? Well, when
Jim Aspell
I was sharing space with the woman up in the attic, it was actually was nice, because I always had somebody to bounce things off of, we left that space and move to a bigger space in one of the suburbs of Hartford. And to pay the rent, we brought on a third person help share the space with us. So at that point, it was really kind of nice, because I had two other lawyers to kind of bounce things off of it was only when I went out on my own, that it really kind of became a lonely existence. So So more or less for the past seven years, that it’s an interesting question, because there are days where I do really miss it. It was always nice in the Old Firm. If you had a question about a comp case, and I know most of the stuff, but there’s always going to be something new. And I had four other guys to kind of bounce it off of. Now, if that happens. We do have a listserv that the Trial Lawyers Association puts out, which generally you’ll get an answer. I have, obviously, your group, which has been very helpful in that regard. And then if I’ve got some other sort of peculiar question, there are some people I can call, I’m always reaching out to Ryan or to Andrew Garza, who is also in this firm. If I am looking for somebody else whose opinion I trust to bounce things off of, but yeah, it can be a lonely existence, even if I bring on somebody else. Typically, that’s going to be an associate. And they’re going to be looking to me to be the font of knowledge, as opposed to the other way around. So you know, I do miss it and it’s nice to have somebody that can answer the questions. We’ll take
Unknown Speaker
a quick break for word from our sponsors. Thanks to our sponsor, Smith AI Smith. AI is a superior receptionist service for law firms trusted by many maximum lawyers including me. At my immigration practice, the hacking law practice and this friendly US based receptionist respond to potential clients in English or Spanish screen and schedule new leads, and even take payment for our consults. The best part is that they don’t just handle these conversations by phone. They also have live agents and chat bots capturing leads on our website through their chat widget. They serve as our friendly gatekeepers on my team and I work uninterrupted, we get new clients and we get work done. How awesome is that? If you’re in a solo or small firm, I know you’ll appreciate this plant started just $70 a month for calls and $100 a month for chats. They even offer a totally free chatbot so there’s no excuse. Try Smith AI today and see for yourself why attorneys like me say Smith AI receptionists are the secret to business growth. Smith AI offers a free trial and maximum lawyer listeners get an extra $100 discount with promo code Max law 100 That’s ma x l Aw 100. Sign up and Learn more at www dot Smith dot A I trust me when I say don’t let another day go by try Smith AI.
Jim Hacking
We’re back with Jim. So we’re talking about the transition year that he’s in, we’re talking about growth, we’re talking about bouncing things off of other people. And, Jim, I think one of the things that piqued our interest and why we wanted to have you on the show is because you’re one of the first people in the group to really raise the issue of, you know, transitioning out of your practice. And so I love hearing that you’re in this interesting transition time just this year about you know, things are ramping up and people are everyone’s busy. And it looks like you’re going to be more and more busy. And also looking at sort of the the end game of what when when am I going to leave this? And how am I going to leave it I’d love to hear your current thoughts on all that.
Jim Aspell
Yeah, it’s one of those things I think about more and more. Now, my plan anyways, is to try to do this for another 12 years, I don’t want to be one of those lawyers that’s kicking around. And there are certainly plenty in the comp bar that are there, they’re pushing at and they come into work, and they just don’t know what to do with themselves. I’m not that guy, I got a million other interests. And if I can fund a retirement where I’m working part time doing something other than wall related, I’d be more than happy. So the way I look at it, I’m not looking for a takeover model, necessarily, I’m not looking to bring on an associate to take over the business. Unfortunately, none of my children are interested in being an attorney, it would have been nice to go that direction. So I’m going to write it, you know, at least another 10 see where I am. And then, you know, look into the buyout model or something like that, I suppose. But at this point, I’m still trying to figure that part out I’ve got a an accountant that I can imagine I will talk to when that time comes. So it’s just a very difficult an interesting place to be where the business is growing. Yet, I’m looking for an end game at some point down the road. So we’ll just have to see how it plays out. I wish I had a better answer for you. But I just don’t know myself.
Tyson Mutrux
So Jim, I want you to look back to whenever you started. So I think you say 1981 When did you start 86? Believe it or not 86 He started 86. So if you’re gonna I was born in 83 years old to look back? And what advice if you’re going to look back and talk to that 1986? And Jim, what would you what advice would you give him then
Jim Aspell
I would have told him to get the hell out of that firm a lot sooner than he did. Because I I did that job for 19 years. And I always kind of toyed with the idea of going out on my own. I got Jay foon Berg’s book, which was sort of the Bible at that point. And I read it and I read it. And then G foon. Berg came out with a second book. And I read it and I read it. And at this point, I was probably 10 or 12 years into it. But for whatever reason, an internal fear or doubt was just holding me back when it was only until I basically got kicked to the curb and actually had to do it that I realized, yeah, you can do it. So if you’ve got any kind of business sense, and any kind of financial wherewithal to get yourself out, it’s far, far better to work for yourself than it is to work for somebody else. And I always tell people, it’s kind of interesting. You know, my partners were putting their kids through college and private school, and I was buying my kids shoes on eBay, literally. I was like, What the hell am I doing? But for whatever reason, the doubt and the fear kept me from making that jump. So if I could tell anybody else to do it, just take the jump hold your nose and it’s gonna be okay, if you’ve got any kind of support system in any kind of client base at all. I would urge people to make the transition to working for themselves because had I done it 10 years sooner than I did. You know, my life would be far more real. boarding. I mean, I have a very good existence now. But it would have been that much sooner. And it was only my own doubt that was holding me back.
Jim Hacking
Yeah, I was sort of giggling to myself, when you introduced, you’re leaving that old firm as a series of unfortunate events, because I knew where it ended up. And I had a job lined up, it’s a long story, but I had a job lined up at a silk stacking firm here in St. Louis. And it, it fell through at the very last minute, and it led me into going out on my own. So I think I mean, you know, being your own boss, having your own clients, we talked about it here all the time. And it’s sort of the overarching theme of the show is that, you know, there’s really no substitute to, you know, having your own clients and being your own boss.
Jim Aspell
No, it’s the greatest feeling in the world. And honestly, this, how
Jim Hacking
are you gonna work through this transition? How are you going to make that decision? You mentioned something happening in June, what’s where things stand now, and what’s going to change in June?
Jim Aspell
Well, I think between now and June, I’ll have a better idea. I was never a big metrics guy. And through through the show, honestly, I’ve become far more aware of KPIs. And I’m starting to actually keep track of the metrics of things. And the changes that I’ve implemented, resulted in the increased revenue that I’m kind of hoping it will, I will bring on additional configure bringing on an associate, because it just becomes very difficult to be as many places at once as I need to be with as many files as I have. So if we get to that, I’m just going to write it and try to grow it, at least for the next five years. And then I’ll make another decision at that point. But I think between now and June, I’ll really have a good idea of what sort of trajectory I’m on. If it’s moving sharply upward, then I think I’m going to have to go into growth mode. I’m not sure how large I can see myself scaling comp has not tremendously large margins. But But that’s kind of where we are, I think we’re, I’m really at a point where the things that I’ve learned from the group are really starting to pay off in terms of financial rewards, I got away from find law, and I’m got a different website, I’ve signed on with firm flex with Jay Wayne’s program, I’m doing a bunch of different things with YouTube. And I’m, I’m still young enough where I kind of get get a kick out of growing the practice. And I’m trying to get to the point where I can actually do those, the comp cases that I want to do, they do like helping people, they don’t like the idea of people doing worker’s comp, unrepresented, because they, they miss out on a lot of things, and they’re typically sold short by the insurance company. But by the same token, with those low margins, it doesn’t become cost effective for me to take those cases that going to settle for 10 or $15,000. Whereas if I can bring on an associate to do those cases, then it may make more sense, will I take on some of the higher value stuff that I’m trying to bring in with some of these other marketing techniques that I’m trying from the firm as well as what comes in on on referral?
Tyson Mutrux
Alright, so Jim, this question is for all the people listening right now thinking about hiring a lawyer hiring associate for their firm. What, what has been the hesitation for you? Because I bet you’ve been thinking about this for a while hire, bring it on associate. What’s been your hesitation to this point?
Jim Aspell
I’ll be honest with you, and it’s the problem I faced all along. And it’s honestly, it’s the cost of health insurance. It’s been an issue with the paralegals. It’s just an issue in terms of hiring. When I landed on the curb in 2006, my old firm had been paying for the health insurance for my family. So I got Cobra for whatever it was four or five months, and then transitioned over started paying for it for myself. And even at that point, I think it was 1200 bucks a month for a family of five, which was a tremendous monthly, not when you’re trying to make a payroll. And at this point, I don’t think I’ve looked at it. Unfortunately, I’m on my wife’s policy now. But you can’t buy health insurance for other people for less than 12 grand a year. And that’s just a tremendous cost of doing business. And that honestly is the biggest hesitation to bringing somebody on, because I happy to pay them a fair salary. But the health insurance is a real factor. And I don’t think it’s fair to have employees unless you can offer them the health insurance quite honestly. Yeah. But
Jim Hacking
you know, you could use them into it, you could you know, make it something that happens after six months or you know, that that get them up generating some revenue for you and then have them sort of funded themselves through their their continued efforts. Yeah. All right. Well, so from my last question, I guess, what is your favorite thing about running your own law firm.
Jim Aspell
I love being able to take off on a Friday afternoon without having to look over my shoulder. When I was working for somebody else. If I cut out even five to go to the cape or something on the weekend, a felt like a Beat wave because I always felt like somebody was second guessing me and it just wasn’t, you know, it was looked down upon. It took me probably two years to get over that feeling of being able to leave early. But it’s the greatest feeling when you can go to your kids sports game you can cut out and if you want to go skiing or go to the beach for the weekend, you have that flexibility to do it. And if you’ve got good staff working for you and support systems in place, it’s something that you certainly are capable of doing. And it really is life changing.
Tyson Mutrux
Man, I love taking I take off at three o’clock every frickin Friday. And I know if I were working for a firm, I wouldn’t be able to do that. So I absolutely love it. I think you’re right. All right. I do want to wrap things up for the I want to remind everyone go to the Facebook group. People like Jim are in the Facebook group contributing, asking questions, answering questions, giving resources out, it’s an amazing place to be. Also remember the ZAP Athan, by the time this thing goes out actually may be past so sorry, it might be too late. But you’re not too late to the conference next Mueller conference, make sure you register ticket sales go up again at the end of January. So make sure you get registered for that. Jimmy, what is your hack of the week, given our
Jim Hacking
discussion with my fellow gym, I want to recommend a book that I probably pass out as often as I do E Myth and the power of the system. And that book is called Built to Sell. And it’s about how to set up your company to be sellable or saleable. When the time comes for you want to get for you to get out of the firm. So it’s not it’s not a book about law firms. But it is about a an advertising agency. And this stuff is readily transferable. I’ve read it two or three times, I just sent it to our friend Jeff Burke. And it really talks about, you know what you want to sell from one or the power of your systems and the power of your lead intake. So I think that for Jim, and for everybody else, it’s a short read, you can read it on a plane ride, which is the first time I read it. And it’s just a really powerful book.
Tyson Mutrux
Very cool. All right, Jim, you got a tip or a hack for us? Yeah,
Jim Aspell
I thought about this. Probably the best thing that I did when I went out on my own was getting an accountant right off the bat. And I would urge anybody considering doing that, to get a good accountant that’s actually familiar with with small business, they can guide you on the type of entity choice to pick S corp, LLC, whatever it is, they can put you on the right path in terms of payroll, so you don’t run afoul of payroll taxes and those kinds of things. And all in all, they’re they’re just a really, really good partner to have in terms of bouncing things off in terms of how to run your business.
Tyson Mutrux
That is fantastic advice. All right. So my for my tip, it is an app, and I’ve got this one, I’ve just been sort of playing around with it. It is word of the day. And so every morning at 10am, you can set whatever time you want to do it at at 10am. I get a message on my phone. And it’s another word with a definition that tells you how to pronounce and everything. It’s actually kind of cool being getting words never heard before. So it’s pretty kind of interesting. So it’s something to check out. Jim, thank you so much for coming on. It’s been really fun getting to get to learn more about you. So this is great. Thanks for coming on.
