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Law, Ethics and Information Products for Lawyers ft. Megan Zavieh ML123
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In this episode, Jim & Tyson interview Megan Zavieh, with Zavieh Law. Megan is an attorney with a broad range of litigation experience now focusing on attorney defense in the California State Bar disciplinary system. Listen as they go over her business, her strategies and marketing, information products and ethics.

 

 

Topics:

    • About Megan:
      • Everyone of her clients is a Lawyer
      • She represents them in state bars proceedings
      • Applicants for the state bar and general ethics consulting
      • Advice lawyers who are getting creative with the delivery of service
      • Started in Big Law but her work and life weren’t compatible
      • Launched her practice in tending to represent primarily self represented lawyers
      • Consulting services
    • Graduated from University of California, Berkeley – School of Law at the age of 21!
    • Megan is a Spartan racer

 

  • “There is something incredibly empowering about doing something that looks way too hard, or just completely impossible when your standing at the front end of it, and then getting to the end and looking back and realizing what you’ve accomplished. It carries over into everything in life…”

 

  • Having lawyers as clients
    • They can understand everything quickly
    • Intellectual discussions
    • Contribute to their own defense
    • Partnership in representation
  • Running the firm away from California
    • From Australia, it used to be a red flag
    • Now from Georgia, almost never comes in to the discussion
    • Very little travel involved
  • How do Lawyers find her
    • Google searches; website
    • Referrals: reticent to talk about the fact they have a State Bar problem
    • Social media and Podcast
  • Information products
    • Can be almost any consumable media content, that does not involve you talking individually to clients
    • Videos, online course, a book, etc.
    • Educating people about their legal needs and legal issues
  • The Playbook: The California Bar Discipline System Practice Guide
    • A guide to help people who are representing themselves through the California State Bar discipline process
    • A few forms
    • Videos
    • Forum
    • Library
    • Unlimited scale
  • How should people get started
  • Feedback from people who’ve downloaded the product
    • Need for consulting and guidance
  • The Podcast
    • A Legal Ethics podcast
    • Interviews from all sorts of products
    • The profession and ethics
  • Podcasting is an amazing media
    • Dive into topics
    • Meet great people
    • Great conversations

 

The Maximum Lawyer Conference 2019 is coming!

 

Thanks so much for listening to the show! If you want to know more about this and keep on maximizing your firm, please join our Facebook Group or like us on Facebook and comment!

You can also go to MaximumLawyer.com or, if you’d prefer, email us at: info@maximumlawyer.com

 

Jim’s hack: Google released some new tools that allow you to assess how your website is doing. https://web.dev/measure, fixes and scores.

 

Megan’s hack: Read your Ethics Rule before the end of the year!

 

Tyson’s tip: Go out and do some research on Alexa. Get involved.   

 

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Do you want to get on the show? Shoot us an email or message us!

 

The Maximum Lawyer Podcast. Partner up, and maximize your firm.

 

 

Resources:

 

Transcripts: Law, Ethics and Information Products for Lawyers ft. Megan Zavieh

Tyson Mutrux
So hey, Jimmy, did you hear about the special thing that’s gonna be going down on the Facebook group this week?

Jim Hacking
Yeah, I hope everybody is paying attention because the front door of Maxwell con 2019 is about to open.

Tyson Mutrux
Yeah, and so we get a special maximum lawyer only pricing is going to be for 48 hours only. So at 12:01am on Thursday, prices are gonna go up, the tickets are gonna go up for sale, this is a limited time flash sale, it’s going to end and 1159 on Friday night, and prices are going to be for only $249. So they’re going to go up, there’s going to be early bird and superduper, Early Bird and then regular pricing, they’re gonna start to go up as time goes by. So if you want to get in on the Facebook group only, and maximum lawyer listener only pricing Thursday and Friday are the time to do it. After that, we’re not going to go back to that pricing.

Jim Hacking
Yeah, a lot of people are going to ask you, when is the cheapest time to buy? What should I be thinking about as far as getting tickets? Last year, we had a lot of people register early, but this is the earliest that they can register, I would really hope that anybody who already has it on their calendar would just go ahead and register now not so much for us, but for them, because it’s going to be like you said, their best opportunity to get it. And it’s also going to be a chance to include it on their 2018 taxes.

Tyson Mutrux
Yes, and that’s another good point. Now you’re going to be able to get in on this super duper early bird after this 48 hours because the price is going to go up. So definitely get in by the end of the year. So you can get that tax write off, you’re gonna want to do it this Thursday and Friday and get it done and paid for because it’s gonna be by far the cheapest, and we’re going to have it for so make sure you do that. So we hope you’ll join us in St. Louis. It’s going to be an awesome conference. And Jimmy I Sears thing we’re going to sell out this year, because we’re utilizing leveraging a lot of the members in our group to help us put the word out on this one. And I think it’s gonna go pretty quickly. So hopefully people will join us.

Jim Hacking
Alright, now let’s get on to the show.

Unknown Speaker
Run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum liar podcast, podcast, your hosts, Jim hacking and Tyson new tricks. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm.

Jim Hacking
Welcome to the show. You’re back on the maximum lawyer Podcast. I’m Jim hacking.

Tyson Mutrux
And I’m tasting nutrix What’s up? Jimbo is

Jim Hacking
my friend. It’s good to hear your voice and seems like it’s been a while since we’ve recorded and I know we have a lot scheduled this week to get some planned out ahead of time.

Tyson Mutrux
Yes, it just so people know. Jim, as of I think yesterday or Saturday for sure was yesterday said hey, can we record every single day this week and share whatever. So we’re going to do I think we’re going to do five this week. We’re going to do two today and then one through Thursday. So can a busy week. All right. Well, I’m

Jim Hacking
very excited about our guest today. Her name is Megan Xavi, she is with Avi law. And she is a lawyer for lawyers. I know she’s listening to the show. I’m sure she’s had many times where she’s been listening to our podcast and saying to herself, boy that Jim and Tyson this year screwing things up, and they’re violating this rule on that. So hopefully making money is straightened out today. Megan, welcome to the show.

Megan Zavieh
Thank you for having me, Jim. Thank you for having me, Jason. Of

Tyson Mutrux
course. So Megan, Jim gave a brief, you know, look into what you do, but talk a little bit more in depth about what you do. And then also why you decided to do

Megan Zavieh
that? Sure, absolutely. So like you said, I’m a lawyer for lawyers. So every single one of my clients is an attorney. So I should say a lawyer, I guess there’s a difference, right? Not everyone’s passed the bar, but I represent them mostly in state bars, proceedings and disciplinary actions. I also represent applicants to the State Bar, who are having issues with their moral character applications. And I also do some general ethics consulting. And that’s actually becoming a booming part of the business as we challenge some of the ethics rules out there and start to come up with some alternative business models and tech products, delivery of legal services through products, that kind of thing. So I advise lawyers who are getting creative with the delivery of services. And I got into this, well, I guess about 10 years out of law school. I had had a federal clerkship and big law securities litigation experience and hit kind of done as much of that as I wanted to do. I had been in big law on the partnership track until I had my first child and then just kind of made the decision to opt out. I will never say that they globs pushed me out. It was not like that at all. I have a lot of jaded memories of Segwang on, but that’s not one of them. I just realized that my life goals and career goals were no longer compatible. So we traveled quite a bit and moved several times. And one of those moves was overseas. And around the same time, I had started getting involved in California State Bar defense, I had a person in my life who needed some help is with the State Bar. And I had gotten involved helping them. And that was the kind of thing that you know, in big law, you weren’t allowed to do anything that wasn’t for a big law, billable client. So I had sat on the sidelines. But when I left big law, I was able to jump in and help. And I really, really liked the work. I didn’t get into it, because I thought this was gonna be my life’s work, I got into it to help that one person. But once I was there, I really just found that I loved working with other lawyers. And I loved the process of helping them through the actual discipline investigations and court proceedings. And I decided I wanted to do this as a business. But we moved 1000s of miles across an ocean away from the state of California. So I launched my practice, intending to help primarily the self represented lawyers, we have an awful lot of them going through the disciplinary process. And they’re self represented for various reasons, including a lack of resources, and including a belief that they don’t need help. So you know, it runs the gamut, really what the attitude is, that leads them to be self represented, but there’s this huge contingent. So from Australia, I was providing consulting services to lawyers representing themselves in California. And that has evolved. I now live in Georgia, and still represent lawyers in California. But I also do a lot more full scope representation. I fully representing them through the investigation and trial processes.

Jim Hacking
Megan, you’re obviously a very driven person. I note from your website, two things that caught my eye. One is that you graduated order the koi from law school at the age of 21, and that you’re a Spartan racer. Talk to our listeners a little bit about both those things. Well, yeah,

Megan Zavieh
yeah. So the age thing seems to be getting less and less relevant as I get older, but that my age was a huge factor through high school and college and law school. So I graduated from high school when I was 15. I did some self driven study, and I was able to finish early. And I already had college credit from performing in theater and taking some courses when I was a kid. So I graduated from college, and I was 18. And then headed to law school, and transferred in the middle from Quinnipiac College in Connecticut to Berkeley and finish there when I was 21. Yeah, so I always was always very motivated to do things at my own pace. And I love learning. I love structure and academics. So I was just in my element I in college and law school, I just loved it. So I’ve sort of powered through. But now I do a lot of fun stuff on the race courses. When you mentioned Spartan Races, I absolutely love racing, I do obstacle course races, primarily Spartans and also distance running. And that started, I guess, about four years ago, I did my first Spartan, two years ago. And I’ve lost count now of how many I’ve done, but I’ve done as long of a distance as a Spartan Ultra, which is 30 miles or 30. Plus, I think they say, I think mine was 32. So yeah, I get out there on the course and do all kinds of crazy things and jump in mud and try and monkey my way across monkey bars. And that’s over walls. And it is incredibly fulfilling, and does some amazing things to your mental state. I wish that everyone would go and at least do one race that they look at and think there is no way in hell, I can do that. Because there is something incredibly empowering about doing something that looks way too hard, or just completely impossible when you’re standing at the front end of it. And then getting to the end and looking back and realizing what you’ve accomplished. It carries over into everything in life carries over into what I can do in the courtroom, and how I can serve clients, and how I can grow my business and what kind of a parents I am. It just impacts everything. So racing has been a huge part of my life for the last few years and has really been important to my growth.

Tyson Mutrux
Somebody’s you’ve dealt with lawyers as clients and you’ve dealt with other types of clients. How are lawyer clients different than, let’s say big law clients? Well, I

Megan Zavieh
love lawyer clients. There’s a lot of things that are different. You know, in big law, I represented some pretty sophisticated people so I can’t compare it as much to like consumer law where you’re really educating about the entire legal process for someone who’s never been involved in it before. My big law clients 10 It could be hedge fund managers, accountants, other professionals to whom the legal system wasn’t completely foreign, but still had to explain a lot of things to deal with the fact that a lay person’s interpretation of how things should be, is often a lot different than a lawyer’s explanation of how things simply are in the legal system. I’m married to an accountant. And I, we have fewer of these discussions than we used to because he ended up with a minor in law. And he’s gotten pretty sophisticated in law. But he used to be my reality check as to what normal people think, when it comes to the legal system. Right? When you’re driving down the road, and there’s a lot more, I can’t do someone for that. No, yeah, you can, and you’ll lose, but you can do them. Right. There’s only this disconnect between how the legal system works, and a layperson perception of how it should. And so with non lawyer clients, even sophisticated ones, there’s a lot of education that has to happen. And the client is really being fully served by the lawyer, and not always contributing a whole lot to the course of their representation. Representing lawyers, it’s really easy to explain things. Like even if they think it’s wrong, they conceptually get it. So when you say, I’m sorry, in State Bar court, you don’t have a right to remain silent. It’s not a criminal proceeding, you know, two sentences, and then they’re like, alright, that sucks. I thought I would, but I get it. Or you know, these, this is the limit of your due process, right? Since they barchart, they can understand it pretty quickly and easily. So I enjoy that I can have those intellectual discussions and not be having to go back to really rudimentary building blocks in my explanations. And also the lawyers really contribute to their own defense. If you say to an attorney, I’m going to need you know, XY and Z from your files. So I can put this together and know exactly what that is how to present it to me, can dump it on me, even in their disorganized way, it’s still way more organized than an average person would be able to give it to me. So we end up with a very collegial and have partnership arrangement in the representation. And I love that, it also helps me because as a solo, you know, we’ve talked a lot in solo practice about how lonely it can be like you don’t have the colleague to go walk down the hall and bounce an idea off of, well, my clients are my colleagues. So we can call each other up and say, I have this crazy idea, will this work for my defense? And we can talk about it. So they kind of substitute in for colleagues in a larger office sometimes.

Jim Hacking
Megan, talk to us about running your firm away from California. How does that work? What are your clients think about that? And how do you do it logistically,

Megan Zavieh
what clients think about it is an interesting question, because I’ve noticed a real change over the last several years. So I launched originally from Australia, as I said, but then I’ve been in Georgia now for six years. And it used to be a lot more barrier, you know, people would see on my website, or from my cell phone number or talking to me that I wasn’t in state, and they immediately you’ll start to put on the brakes. And they say, Well, you know, is it going to cost me more? Are you going to have to travel here? How does that all work. And it used to be sort of just a red flag to them. Now, it really almost never comes into the discussion. There’s very little travel involved in this practice, just because most cases are resolved at the Investigation Phase. So most of the time, there’s no need for court appearances. We don’t even get that far. And so with clients who do raise it, you know, we talk about it. But the fact is that even if I was down the street from them, most of our work would look exactly the same. A phone consultation, email me the documents, I’ll email you a draft back, we’ll talk on the phone about comments, all of that stuff is done the same, whether I’m in town or not. And as we’ve all gotten much more used to doing business that way, not just because of me, but just as business has changed. where I am located has become less and less of a concern. So that’s definitely been a bonus for me to not have as much explaining to do with that. I have a real presence in California because I’ve worked there for as long as I have I was born and raised there. So it’s not like I just picked the state off the map. And I served for the State Bar with now the California Lawyers Association on their solo and small firm committee. I’m, I think I’m one of my now two immediate past chairs out, but I was on that committee for many years. And so I’ve had enough of a connection with the state that it’s not like I’m just an outsider, you know, phoning it in. And that’s made a big difference. Logistically, I mostly work from where I live in Giorgia, every so often I do need to go, I’ve perfected the day trip from Atlanta to San Francisco and Atlanta to Los Angeles. So I can now do that without needing a hotel for most of my appearances. But when I do need to go I, I have family still in the Bay Area, and I have a regular place. But I say a mop Angeles and I’ve just got down the routine, you’ll everyone at home steps up for me take care of my responsibilities here. And I jet out do what I need to do take all of my free time that I have there and pack as much work into it as I can. And I turn around and get back.

Tyson Mutrux
I imagine there’s some, I guess, some resistance to reaching out to try to contact you if you’ve got an issue with the bar. I’m just curious how to clients find you how to lawyers find you whenever they’ve got an issue?

Megan Zavieh
That’s a really good question. And one I don’t have a complete answer to because clients just often don’t answer that question very clearly. When I ask people, How did they find me? Certainly my website is out there. And I think a lot of people find me through Google searches, referrals to a certain extent, although the reticence to talk about the fact that you have a state bar problem, I think really decreases. How many of our cases come from referrals. And I’m just, I have a real presence on social media, and my podcast is out there. So those I know I sometimes will get a phone call. And people will say, I read an article that you wrote about my problem, or I listened to your podcast. And so I knew who to call when this cropped up. So people come from various places. But I never have quite complete data on that.

Jim Hacking
Megan, you and I met face to face actually on stage when you were presenting at the Clio conference. There, right, that was fun about information products. So one of the things that Tyson and I have talked about a lot is how lawyers can both help educate consumers with information products and sort of scale themselves by offering informational products, I think a lot of our listeners might not even understand what that means. So if you could sort of walk us through what you produced, I think it’d be really helpful.

Megan Zavieh
Absolutely, information products can be almost any consumable media content that does not involve you talking individually to clients. So it can be videos, it can be an online course, it can be a book, we mostly talk about digital information products, like a downloadable book, or an e book. But it could be a physical book, anything where you’re educating people about their legal needs and legal issues without sitting down, you know, figuratively across the table, getting information about their specific situation, and spitting back personalized advice. So what I’ve produced is called this the playbook, the California State Bar disciplined practice guide. And what it is, is a guide to help people who are representing themselves through the California State Bar discipline process, it takes a few forms. There’s an interactive PDF with embedded videos, there’s a forum for talking to each other to other users of the product. And there’s a library of sample documents and forms. So that if you find yourself facing discipline in California, you can sign up for this product and download the PDF. Read the book, it’ll walk you through all the stages of the discipline process, you can refer to the form so you know how to produce the documents you need to produce throughout the litigation. And you can hop on the forum and talk to other people who are in a similar situation as you. My friend, Jeff Birkin, who presented at Clio con with me, has also produced information products. She has an online course, she does nonprofit work. So she represents founders of nonprofits. And she has a course that includes text and video content. So you can do a lot of different things with information products. And there’s all kinds of avenues to get legal information out there. And like you said, it helps us scale. So there’s only so many hours in the day. And there’s only so many clients that I can walk through the process of defending themselves before the State Bar is at some point, I am supposed to get embedded. Right, right. But my product could be downloaded and purchased by an unlimited number of people. And same with all the other information products out there. It’s unlimited how much you can scale with information products.

Tyson Mutrux
I know for a fact that there are a ton of lawyers out there that want to do something very, very similar. Jim and I have even discussed the possibility of doing something. How you recommend people get started whenever they want to do something like this, and it could be a variety of whatever digital product you just talked about, but how should people get started if they want to do it Uh, well, good

Megan Zavieh
question. And then not to like, you know, Hawk my own wares. But the Clio talks where Jeff and I talked about this for an hour is available online now. And we can get that link in your show notes. So that’s, you know, we’ve talked, we talked for a full hour, including some steps to take, but I’ll tell you my my number one thing that I would say, if you’re considering this, but you’ve got to start with, is sitting down with I like butcher paper, or just a huge spreadsheet or mind mapping tool, something unlimitedly big to just scroll out all of your ideas, and brainstorm what you could put out as an information product. And that, as you start to brainstorm, the list gets really big. And, for me, it’s arrows and bubbles, kind of map it all out. And then when you see how huge you could make it, pick the tiniest piece that you can start with out of all of that, and develop that little idea. Put as much energy as you can into that one little slice, because we found both Jeff and me as we develop these products was that we bit off more than was really feasible at that time. We didn’t think we were and we get pushback from people who say, Well, no, no, this idea really isn’t that big. I didn’t think it was either. But I really probably should have written a piece on just how to respond to an investigation, right, that little piece, but of what I did from investigation through appeal, and all the videos at all the forums all at once. So when you drill down and find a little tiny piece of the overall thing that you think it could eventually grow into, you can put your energy into developing all of the nuances of that piece, start to test whether there’s a market for it, start to figure out how you would deliver it in a really good way. So you put all the qualities into that little piece. And if it works, then you can grow that piece into the huge idea that you originally had. And if it doesn’t work, you can tweak it and figure out where you’ve gone wrong without having invested know hundreds of hours and learned how much money into developing too big of an idea.

Jim Hacking
One last question on that. Megan, what’s the feedback that you’ve been receiving from people who’ve downloaded the product, and have there been any expectations that you somehow then become their lawyer, I know you’re dealing with actual lawyer. So that’s probably not as much of a concern. But I know that a lot of lawyers are skittish about doing something like this, because they’re worried about the follow up, or that there might be a client or person who thinks they’re a client.

Megan Zavieh
So a lot of people do put ethics concerns at the top of their list for why they shouldn’t do informational products or other innovative things. And I just say like, there’s, there’s ways around that, you know, you’d have to be very clear in your communication. And what I find with, particularly representing other lawyers and my product being geared towards them, they understand that they’re not clients. But I was surprised, and maybe I, I should have known this, but I didn’t, how many users would end up wanting one on one consulting through the process. So most of them, they buy the products because they can’t afford to hire me to represent them to go through the whole trial. And I totally get that. And that was actually the original target market for these services, both in person services and the digital product, it’s to get to the people who really should have some guidance that can’t afford full scope representation. But because that was my market, I was thinking they aren’t going to want or need or be able to afford to then buy time for me to sit down and go through their cases, I underestimated the need for the hand holding. And so what I have found is that even though they realize that by buying a product, I’m not their lawyer, they want me to be one for them. And so then I’ve started offering more packages where they can have me on board to consult and talk through things. They don’t need nearly as much from me as they would without the products. But they sometimes want the reassurance that yes, you’re using the product correctly. Yes, you’ve done the right thing, you know, listen to their story and help guide them. So that was the thing that that I underestimated,

Tyson Mutrux
or something we sort of glossed over your podcast a little bit. You talked about it a little bit, but we talk a little bit more about what the podcast is and what’s it for and what’s the name of it so people can can listen to it if they want to hear

Megan Zavieh
sure it’s called lawyers gone ethical. And it is as you probably guessed, so Legal Ethics podcast, and we talked about a lot of different things. So we do some solo episodes. So just me chatting away because it looks to me, but on some topics of things you know that are changing in the ethics world or are specific things that people should be looking out for when they’re developing their firms. So we do episodes on different social media platforms and best practices to utilize them and stay within the bounds of the ethics rules. And we also do a lot of guests episodes. So my guests are from all different aspects of the legal industry. I don’t know that I’ve had a non lawyer, I think everyone, and I know that’s like a loaded term now, but I think everyone I’ve had on has been an attorney. But we talked about all different aspects of the profession. So I’ve had a disbarred attorney who’s now a professor of law, talking about addiction, and disbarment. We’ve talked with professors about the stress of law school and moral character applications, back to practicing lawyers about developing products about new ethics rules and what they mean for them. So we talked about all different aspects of the profession, and how it comes back to the ethics rules. And since the ethics rules are so often thrown up in front of us as roadblocks, or at least perceived roadblocks, we try and empower attorneys listening to the show, to recognize that the rules don’t necessarily stop them from doing things they want to do. They just impose upon them a certain set of guidelines, and a need for best practices to navigate. You know, things like social media, and advertising and growing your firm in a way that they will not end up one of my clients.

Jim Hacking
I love it. I love it. Megan, I spent a lot of time meeting with lawyers who are thinking about going out on their own, or people that listen to the show. And I’ve often encouraged people to start their own podcast. And I think that most of the people that are in our group are pretty sophisticated. And that for a lot of them a podcast could really take them a long way. And I really liked the point you made earlier this a little side note that you made, which was that lawyers love to say all the ethical rules won’t let me do that the ethical rules to do this. Can you talk a little bit about the value of podcasting and then also about that mindset of oh, you know, ethics rules Trump all?

Megan Zavieh
No, well, I think podcasting is an amazing media. I mean, I have learned more by doing a podcast than by listening to them and attending conferences, just the people you meet, and the conversations you have, are amazing. And it really requires you to dive into these topics that you might gloss over otherwise, you know, I’ll have a guest pitch to me or a friend that I say, Oh, I would love to talk to you about some issue. For example, I talked to Jason beam a couple of weeks ago about cannabis loss. I had glossed over cannabis losses, that became a thing, right California lawyer, I get a million emails from CLE providers and all Hey, learn about cannabis law. Well, I haven’t needed to, it hasn’t really been a thing for me. So it’s been just in the periphery. Well, I was gonna talk for an hour about it with someone who’s practicing it, I had to learn about it. And now I you know, quite a bit more than I ever imagined I would know about but, and it’s really interesting. Well, I wouldn’t have done that if it wasn’t podcasting. So it forces me to be more aware of things outside of my immediate practice. And I learn a lot and I get to talk to all kinds of people. And it just gives me a platform. And I love that about it. You know, I think anyone who wants to dive into their specific area of practice more, you know, I guess deeper into it and learn as much as they can about it and have more conversations about it. Starting a podcast is a great way to force yourself into it. So I think it’s a wonderful idea, to the people who throw up the ethics rules as a barrier all the time, I kind of want to screen and bottle them. Sometimes, I understand that we come from a profession where we are really risk averse. We are taught from the first day of law school, that here’s all the things that can go wrong if you’re not careful. And our professional responsibility class in law school is just a bunch of horror stories. And we of course, come out really timid, if you don’t go out on your own right away, which not that I’m saying that’s a great thing to do straight out of law school, I would have been massively incompetent. And I think a lot of us would be. But if we don’t come out and go on our own, that means that we worked at some point for one or more, more seasoned lawyers, and most likely, they were also really conservative. It’s just the odds in this profession or that you’re going to be dealing with a bunch of lawyers who are risk averse. And that leads us to just be gun shy. And we believe that the ethics rules must stop us. So if we have an idea, or we look around and we see that no one else is doing something that we’re thinking about doing. Our knee jerk reaction is we must not be allowed to and it’s really unfortunate. I think that it’s important that everyone actually learned what the rules call for and require. and prohibit, we can’t just assume that just because something is new or innovative, it must be prohibited by the rules. The rules create a set of parameters that we have to operate within. But they’re actually not going to prohibit a lot of things that we want to do.

Tyson Mutrux
This is an absolutely action packed episode. But unfortunately, we do have to wrap it up. But before I do, I want to remind everyone to go to the Facebook group where people are just posting every single day. It’s kind of amazing. We had someone that just opened his firm and posted just basically asked for general advice. And there were I think there’s over 100 comments right now just on that one. So really incredible. And William Ed really said it best just about how great that group is just willing to contribute to. So thanks for everyone that do contribute. And if you’re listening to this, and you’ve not been on Facebook group, join the Facebook group. It’s there’s a lot of great content. And then also, if you if you don’t mind, go to iTunes or wherever podcasts give us a five star review so we can really spread the love. So, Jimmy, what’s your hacking leak?

Jim Hacking
All right. So first of all, I want to mention that I listened to Megan’s last episode of her podcast and she had some really good tips on urine ethics things for lawyers to be thinking about. So I definitely think that if you’re going to start with Megan’s podcast, starting with the most recent episode wouldn’t be a bad thing. Now, for my hack of the week, I actually have two things they sort of go together. A couple weeks ago, Google released some new tools that allow you to assess how your website is doing. And one is its web dot dev website. So you can go to web dot dev backslash measure, and it tells you all the things that you should fix on your website. It also scores you on things like your SEO, your best practices you can do on your accessibility and on your web performance. And then right along with that, they also released a new page speed insight page, which tells you how fast your page is loading. So we’ll put the links to both of these in the show notes. And I’m sad to say that, of course, after checking my own website, the first thing I did was check Tyson and Tyson is doing much better than me on both the web dev measure and on the PageSpeed. And in fact, when it comes to SEO, Google gave Tyson’s web page 100 out of 100, which sort of boggles my mind. So I’ll be having a conversation with my friend Seth J price and the folks that blue shark because I don’t like to get beat, especially by Tyson. But everybody should use these tools to check out how their website is doing.

Tyson Mutrux
It’ll let Jimmy here’s the best part of all this, I didn’t pay anybody to do it. I did it myself with the guidance of my good buddy, William Ed, will immediately gave me some tips, I follow the tips and did that. And so it’s been great. So it makes me so happy to know that I’m beating you in that category. So I love it. Make it you listen to podcasts. So what is your tip of

Megan Zavieh
the week? Mine would have to be and this is, as you know, goes back to my podcast episode that Jim just mentioned, Gary, I want everybody to go read their ethics rules before the end of the year. Well,

Tyson Mutrux
that’s actually a good one, I guess I shouldn’t too, because I’ve never actually gone through and read all of them. That’s, it seems like a really hefty task. But it’s actually

Megan Zavieh
not see that’s why that’s why it can be a hack. It’s short enough to actually be a half. They’re not that long. They’re really not and, and if you’ve just read through them once you probably be blown away by Oh, it didn’t say this. And it didn’t say that, that I thought was in there. And maybe there’s some nugget that is that you really should have recognized and so, you know, it’s literally like an hour task to just sit there and skim through your your states. Well,

Tyson Mutrux
I love it. Okay, I will do that. I will commit to doing that by the end of the year. Great. Alright, so my tip is not I guess it’s more of a tip. It’s not really a hack or anything else. But our good buddy Jay Ruane has been getting into the Alexa skills. And I know, Jim, that you have done it as well. So what I call this is more of an insider’s tip. I think that this according to people like Jay Ruane who’s a really smart guy, I think this may be sort of the next thing. The tip is to go out and do some research on Alexa, get involved because I haven’t had a problem really problem conceptualizing How is even going to work and how to get started. So I’m going to do some research for them here that’s also on my list to sort of dive into So my tip is to jump into that. And Jimmy, do you have any feedback on electronics? I know you’ve done a little bit of research on

Jim Hacking
it. Yeah, we have a daily flash briefing each day we sort of let it die off just because I was doing just sort of life tips and things and I you know, as I often do, I got distracted it’s it’s good. I just think that the market is really really small right now. But you know, Gary Vee is big on audio and he thinks that it’s a thing that’s going to be a force.

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