Why Your Team Isn’t Performing and What to Do About It with Kyle Harbaugh

MaxLawCon ticket on sale here.

Watch the YouTube version of this episode HERE

Are you looking for ways to make your law firm better? In this episode of the Maximum Lawyer Podcast, Tyson chats with Kyle Harbaugh about leveraging growth within law firms. They discuss identifying leverage points, emphasizing the importance of delegation to free up resources for strategic initiatives.

Leveraging growth for a law firm can be done using different methods. Many law firm owners are scared to delegate certain tasks due to fears that things will not be done right. The issue with this is owners becoming overwhelmed with so many tasks which leads to things not getting done. Think through the tasks that can be delegated out to different individuals on your team. It is important that you have trust with those in your firm to accomplish tasks.

Kyle provides some strategies on how to integrate core value in the hiring process. It is crucial to hire staff who align with the core values you have for the firm. Weave them into your job descriptions and discuss them during interviews to understand if someone will fit into your firm and will bring value to your business.

Listen in to learn more!

Episode Highlights:

• 02:27 Leadership and Parenting Lessons 
• 04:20 Self-Leadership and Core Values
• 07:15 Hiring for Cultural Fit  
• 11:47 Motivating Employees 
• 15:24 Tracking Employee Performance Data  

Connect with Kyle:

• Website  
• LinkedIn 

Resources:

• Join the Guild Membership
• Subscribe to the Maximum Lawyer YouTube Channel
• Follow us on Instagram
• Join the Facebook Group
• Follow the Facebook Page
• Follow us on LinkedIn

Transcripts: Why Your Team Isn’t Performing and What to Do About It with Kyle Harbaugh

Speaker 1 00:00:02 This is maximum lawyer with your host, Tyson Matrix.

Tyson Mutrux 00:00:11 Kyle, you've said that understanding leverage, especially through your team, is the key to significant growth. How do you think a law firm owner can start identifying where they have or lack leverage in their firm today?

Kyle Harbaugh 00:00:25 What are you doing currently is the question to ask. Make a list. I mean, I've had some clients make a list where literally everything that they do throughout the day for the firm, whether that's, you know, cleaning the conference room or answering phone calls. Whatever they do, they they kind of create like an org chart. And so they say, you know, this role or this task is filled by me currently. And so just kind of map it out and understand where you are, where you're putting your time and and where your, time can be better spent.

Tyson Mutrux 00:01:02 Yeah. With that, I'm just assuming some things about some people because I think that that's fantastic advice. I give that advice sometimes too. Sometimes, though, there's things on that list where they still insist on I have to do these things.

Tyson Mutrux 00:01:16 How can they get over that? Because the reality is, is that they know there's other people that can do those things just as well, if not better or close to as good. So how do you get them over that mental hurdle?

Kyle Harbaugh 00:01:28 Yeah, that's a great question. And that really can be the biggest bottleneck is is the the owner. And so like I would say for me it is really helpful to walk through some to kind of talk it through with somebody like a trusted advisor that they can show different perspectives, things you're not thinking of or yeah, you could do that thing, but is that really the best use of your time? Could you delegate it to somebody, or are there other people who have different skills and abilities beyond yours that could actually do that thing better. One thing I see a lot is in law firms. Leaders are default attorneys, and well, I don't disagree with that in some respects. You absolutely need that in certain roles. Not every lawyer is going to be a good leader for a given role.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:02:21 And you might have better leadership coming from a different person who's a non-lawyer.

Tyson Mutrux 00:02:27 Yeah. This is a good way to segue into leadership, because I want to I want to talk about leadership with you. Great. And you are you have you been married for ten years? You've got three kids. And I wonder what lessons from parenting can you take and apply when it comes to leadership in a in a company, if any? I mean, I know it's kind of out of left field, but I am curious what what you can take from parenting and apply it to leadership in the company.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:02:54 You can you can learn a lot from a parenting. I would say one is is being consistent. If you don't know how your kids are going to. If your kids are unsure how you're going to react. That can be very difficult to deal with. Where, you know, it's like, I want to come to dad or mom with this thing. And I don't know if they're going to get really upset.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:03:17 I don't know if they're going to not care. I don't know how they're going to handle this. And I've seen both in previous experiences. So really building consistency on how you approach things. I would advocate for a calm understanding as you know. Orientation and and kind of have that be your default. But if you're if you're just really angry all the time or you, you handle things in a really kind of a rash manner. You're not making good decisions. Oftentimes you're thinking emotionally. And to be able to step back and process the information in a in a methodical way. and maybe you're really emotional about it and you say, okay, I just need to think about this. I need to process this. I need to take a step back and we'll talk about this in 15 minutes. You know, something along that. And so it really gets to how are you leading yourself. And you have to have good leadership of yourself before you can begin to lead others.

Tyson Mutrux 00:04:20 Oh I like this topic. Okay.

Tyson Mutrux 00:04:22 How can we be better leaders of ourselves? Because I'm assuming some of this has to do with you. Commit to something internally to yourself. You're constantly letting yourself down by not making those commitments, which then lowers your confidence, which then affects your ability to lead. And maybe I'm going down the wrong route, but I.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:04:42 Know you're on track. You got it. Okay. You got it. So. So I would say get clear on what matters to you. Get clear on your core values. What what's what's important, what's a non-negotiable, what you are absolutely going to say yes, or you're going to protect against and say no to things. And really, I understand what your ideal you is. And then once you have a clear idea of those commitments, then you can, like you said, begin to build in disciplines where you do certain things or you don't do certain things. And you, you modify your habits to be in line with with your core values.

Tyson Mutrux 00:05:22 How do you come up with those core values? Is there is there any tricks to or do you have any advice on on getting to those those core values, those things that you really that you believe in, that you stand by?

Kyle Harbaugh 00:05:32 So I believe that they are like one of my core values is I believe in my community.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:05:39 So I will prioritize my community over myself. I want to see the benefit of not just myself, but other people, and I want to be a benefit to them. So that is a core value of me. I'm a Christian. I believe in the Bible. I have a I've had a relationship with Jesus Christ for close to ten years. I actually over ten years now to think about it. And I you know, that's my set of principles. I'm not saying you have to be a Christian, but you should have some sort of belief system and you need to study it, and you need to back up why you believe what you believe and why it's important to you and how it drives you forward.

Tyson Mutrux 00:06:19 Yeah, there's a lot of importance when it comes to aligning your your values with your employees, and it's a lot easier if you can kind of figure out at the beginning, you know, what are your values? What do you believe in, kind of a thing? Do you have any advice on on hiring when it comes to finding the right people for your company and bringing them in to make sure that you all, you all match that way? There's not a point later on down the road where your and whether their religious values.

Tyson Mutrux 00:06:48 I mean, obviously you're not expecting all of your employees to have the exact same religious values. That's not really what I'm talking about. I'm just talking about like those true core values, whatever they may be. Is there a way of figuring out what those are? Early on, that way down the road, you don't have some sort of conflict that says. Well, you know, they kind of go one way with it. You go another way and it and you're sticking with your values, but it's sort of against their values. So any, any way of trying to figure that out at the beginning.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:07:15 Yeah. No, that's a great question. I would say ask. I just get clear. And I mean, I advocate for putting your core values, maybe not explicitly stated, but weaving them into the actual job description. Like at the at our firm we believe in XYZ thing, you know, client service transparency, you know, putting the client first, you know, something, something of that nature or if that's important to you or, you know, excellent work product and we have standards to back that up.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:07:48 And you can maybe talk about that a bit about like what your your checks and balances, your, your quality control Procedures look like within your within your firm. And that's a great way to get that conversation started. I would say you need to just be thinking about a lot of people. Don't think about it. They look at the resume, they look at skills and experience. Some people, they level up a little bit and they look at culture fit, personality. Good on you if you're doing that. But you might be somebody who's a great culture fit. you might have a, you know, all the skills and experience necessary to perform well at that firm. But if your, your long term goals don't align with the firm, if you want to be partner in three years, and that's never, ever going to happen at the firm, that's not a good long term fit. You're not going to stay there long term. You might be very successful in a role for 2 or 3 years, and then you're going to move to someplace that can accommodate those long term goals better.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:08:51 Or you're you're going to go do your own thing. And that's really the big hurdle that that law firms are up against is how do you manage and retain talent. And, you know, how do you get people that are aligned with the mission and vision of your firm and are going to serve your clients at a high level, and you can invest in and train and enhance their skills and not have them leave one day. I run into so many lawyers and they say, well, I don't want to get employees because I'm afraid they're going to leave. They're going to take a bunch of cases and it's a valid concern. I mean, that's a that's a big concern, but you have to figure out how to do it if you want to grow.

Tyson Mutrux 00:09:34 Yeah, I think that definitely is. I was just talking to an attorney in court, Tom Durfee. he's just launching his firm July 1st. So it's kind of an exciting time. And we were kind of talking about, you know, leaving his current firm and what they're supposed to do with cases and everything.

Tyson Mutrux 00:09:49 And it's kind of interesting thing. Luckily, you him leaving his firm, it's a it's very, a, you know, amiable relationship that they have which is, which is fantastic, but it's not always that way. I do want to ask you more about leverage. I want to get more into what you mean by leverage from a business standpoint. But before I do that, I want to I want to ask you about leverage. I think one of the when it comes to employees, because I think one of the big mistakes over decades is that employers have viewed they've taken they've had leverage over employees. Right. They've got the salary. And, you know, this is the this is the carrot, you know, and they they kind of use that. They've got that leverage. But it feels like that's shifted substantially over the last four years. Although with I, I think it could shift dramatically back the other way. But do you how do you leverage when it comes to employees is the question.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:10:40 Okay. So I could interpret that a few different ways. So I correct me if I'm, I'm not answering the the question how you wanted or what you wanted to get at.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:51 So listen, I don't want to get it anything. I just want to. I just want to get your perspective. So it's whatever you say. Yeah. I'm not looking for anything I just want. I just. I'm just curious what your thoughts are.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:11:00 This goes back to to communicating your core values. People want more than a paycheck. I think that's part of what we've seen shift in the last four years or so that you've you've alluded to is paying the bills is important. Don't get me wrong. Having a competitive compensation and, you know, good benefits, that's that's kind of a, you know, a given. But people want something more and they want alignment. They want to feel like they're part of something bigger than themselves. And if you are if you don't have core values or you don't have a vision and mission statement, you you're not like what separates you from the firm down the street?

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:44 Yeah, I think that's that's important.

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:47 There is a let's talk about motivate employees for a second because there is I want to tell you this example. I was at jiu jitsu, a couple nights ago, and a buddy of mine there, he he left. He was working for this steel company for a long time, and he just left and went. He's working at Walmart and he was working at this big distributor distribution center. It's massive, which they use AI with. And he's got this head, this headset. And it's just it's whole. It's all fascinating. I can talk about that in another episode. Actually just the AI that they use at Walmart. It's really interesting. But it's interesting that how they approach how employees can get paid versus how they incentivize employees versus employees. That worked for the the steel company that he worked for. And I'm just the the numbers don't really matter that much. But let's say he was he had to he had to take this piece of steel. He would had to basically, you know, it was really, really hot.

Tyson Mutrux 00:12:45 He had to put this big, big old freaking furnace looking thing it was. He was there all day. But let's say he had to do 600 pieces a day. Okay, whatever it is. And if he that if he got done at 2:00 at and got all of his pieces done, he could do nothing the rest of the day. Right. He could just get paid to be just be there all day. But he, he he had zero incentive to do more than 600 because he didn't get paid more. Nothing. Right. Walmart is really interesting. Their approach is way different. So if let's say he's supposed to do 600 boxes a day at Walmart and he would, they're moving things around and stuff. But that doesn't really matter either. But let's say he does. He does 600 by 2:00. But he's he's basically done one and a half times what he is supposed to do. Right. They pay him time and a half where it's brilliant from Walmart's perspective, because what they get to do is they're, they're they're getting all that extra labor and they're not they're not paying them full freight.

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:47 They're paying them half of the time that they would normally pay someone full freight for it. So it was a brilliant. I thought it was a brilliant idea when it comes to incentive versus a terrible way of of disincentive incentivizing employees. So I wonder if you have any tips on on incentivizing employees, keeping employees motivated?

Kyle Harbaugh 00:14:06 Well, just to go off of the example you brought up, you also have data to show who's the most productive. And over time, you can, you know, bring in more people that look like Dave and act like Dave, or you could bring in maybe you you cut the bottom 10% that's not really performing or just doing the minimum to bring in more productive people. And so if you don't incentivize any behavior that goes above and beyond, you're not going to get that data to to figure out and how to figure out how to optimize. And who are the real top performers and what are their common like overlapping themes, personality traits that you should be looking for and hiring for that that really work out well in that in that type of role.

Tyson Mutrux 00:14:53 How do you how do you keep that data? How do you try the data? Because there's some things I do find it even as much as as tech leverage as we are. The I do find it difficult to track everything, you know, even though I want to track everything and, you know, tracking everything is basically tracking nothing. But yeah. How do you find good, good, simple ways that don't require manual inputs, which is that's the like the worst is having like requiring some sort of manual input for data. Is there is there are there easier ways. Do you have any tips on on that.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:15:24 You got to get to first principles. What is most important for that role. And every role is going to be different. Like if it's a sales role, you know, close ratio is going to be really important. Another one, if there like an intake person speed lead is going to be really important. So how fast is that person follow up with somebody who contacts your firm.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:15:45 So there's going to be different things. Now some of those are like you've said AI is starting to take over some of those those functions. There's a lot of different tools. And I honestly, I'm learning about AI tools all the time that do really neat stuff. I don't want to do any third party advertising, but there are tools out there that I mean, I'm aware of one AI tool that that'll look at what you're doing and bill it to the appropriate client so you don't have to keep track of your time. There's all sorts of tools out there. And yeah, you know, I mean manual is not ideal, but even if you're doing it manually, you're at least tracking the data somewhat. And it's better than nothing, I guess is what I'm trying to get at is it's better. It's better than nothing. And a lot of people get overwhelmed like, oh my goodness, there's so many things to to track. Yeah there is just pick one. Just just start picking, you know, 1 or 2, start small, build it out over time.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:16:45 It's a lot harder to like track ten and start tracking all ten at once. Get again in the habit of just tracking. Tracking one, 1 or 2 things and then go from there.

Tyson Mutrux 00:16:54 I love that advice. It's great advice. It's consistent with every everything I've heard from, you know, everyone from like Jason Selke to, you know, anyone else that is talks about, you know, KPIs or the key things you should be focusing on. So I think that that's that's great.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:17:10 Yeah. And on that, you know there's a I don't know if it was it's often attributed to Einstein. It says not everything that can be counted counts. Not everything that counts, you know, can be counted. And so there are some things that are a little bit more difficult to track. And yeah, you know, not everything's going to fall into a neat, nice number. And I think sometimes we get overly fixated on, on numbers. And, and while I'm very big on data driven decisions, I mean that's, that's what our two, the AI systems that we've built are all about.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:17:45 You do need to recognize that we can get over fixated on numbers.

Tyson Mutrux 00:17:49 Yeah. So let's get into some of the AI. Let's talk about. So when we're talking about leverage like talk about what actually that what we're talking about with that. But then tell us about what you're doing with AI. Because I think that that's something that people would be really interested in.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:18:03 Yeah. So leverage first we need to define what leverage is. So a lever you have something on a fulcrum and you press over here. And it has an outsized it does outside outsized work. So that's why if you have the right jack stand, my £40 kid can jack up a £3,000 car because there's there's leverage there. And so there's the amount of work gets more done. So, for instance, in the setting of a law firm, you might be able to get, say, 100 cases done in a year. That's all. That's really kind of your upper limit, let's say for this example. But if you get in a paralegal, maybe your leverage now gets goes up and you can handle a lot more.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:18:49 You could maybe get 2 or 300 cases done in a year. You get a few associates and now you're getting in. In a year's time of everybody working, instead of getting, you know, 100 cases done, you're getting 6 or 700 cases done. So it's a way to accomplish more in a set amount of time.

Tyson Mutrux 00:19:09 Than I think. That's a great description. Let's talk about what you're doing with the AI stuff, because that I think that is where, I think a lot of value can be had over the next few years.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:19:21 Absolutely, absolutely. So our AI systems are very unique. There's a lot of AI out there. A lot of people are throwing things out there and and some sometimes it feels like, like I just went to the ABA tech show in Chicago and it was like kind of like everybody had AI this or AI that, and it was, it was it was some of it was pretty underwhelming. And then there were a lot of people like, oh yeah, they they have AI, but it's not that good.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:19:46 I would never use it Out there.

Tyson Mutrux 00:19:48 I really want to hear, like, you're the silliest piece of AI that you've seen, but you don't have to say it on the air. But I'm very curious to see some of the things that you're like, okay, that's that's that's silly.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:19:58 Yeah, yeah, I would, I would be happy to share. So our, our systems are a bit unique. It's actually something that you don't I, you know, the client doesn't get Ahold of at all. So it's not another login to manage or another, you know, piece of software for you to, to keep track of their systems that are created for professional services. they're created so that lawyers can make decisions very, very quickly. And so they're decision making, tools that generate reports. Our clients get reports. So one identifies their five largest opportunities for growth because there's probably a hundred different ways to grow your business. And not all of them make sense for your specific situation. And so we wanted a way for our clients to get a very clear picture of what makes the most sense for them in their particular situation, and it might be something that saves them time or money and or it might be a really big opportunity to make more money.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:21:00 So it just depends. It's usually a mix and it not only tells them what those are, but it spells out what they need to do for the next 6 to 18 months so they know where to focus, what's going to give them the biggest return on their their time and their money.

Tyson Mutrux 00:21:15 Yeah. I mean, and I mean, employees are the most expensive thing that we pay for. So doing this right is right. So I'm going to I'm going to share my screen and I'm going to I'm going to talk through this in a way where people that are listening, they can actually, you know, understand what what we're talking about too. But I want to show just this is your website, and I think it's really interesting what you're doing. And this so this is the, you know, hiring decisions made easy. And you've got you've got this report which is really, really interesting. Tell us, tell me, tell me like what's in this report.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:21:46 So the right hire report that's that's the other tool that we've built.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:21:51 Right. Higher allows our clients to make hiring decisions up to seven times faster. And as you know, the recruitment is is is very stiff. I worked with a lot of different people who said, you know, basically that they had way too much on their plate that they were the owners were doing 3 or 4 different roles. And I would say, well, you need to, you know, delegate this to somebody and they would agree with me and I'd say, so how are you going to focus? Are you going to, you know, hire somebody? And they would go, oh, absolutely not. I'm not going to work with a recruiter to do this. I'm like, okay, so are you going to do the hiring? And they go, yeah, I guess I will. But you already told me you're maxed out. So I want this was a way to shrink that skill gap and to look at a, a broader swath of information. So this this looks at their personality, their personal goals and their skill set on the on the client side.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:22:53 And it's going to give them an overall rating that we're looking at right now. And so it's going to look at those on the client or the candidate side. And then on the company side, it's looking at the the benefits they want to offer, the culture they want to develop, and the long term developmental opportunities that are available. And what that is really looking to do is, is to bring all those six considerations together so that people can so we can get a really good picture of who's going to be the best long term fit, who's going to serve the clients the best, and who have personal goals that that align with the developmental opportunities that are available.

Tyson Mutrux 00:23:34 Yeah. So I think it's really cool. So like we've got right now, I've got this this page up. So it's on the website and it's from the from the report or a sample report. And it has like this candidate fit score, which I think is cool company fit score, which is cool. And then you've got you've got those things you're talking about like you've got the personality goals, skill sets, development culture benefits, and then you've got this Venn diagram where it kind of shows you know the fit when it comes, when it comes to the candidate, and then the role in the company, which I think is just a really it's a really interesting way of, of analysing things.

Tyson Mutrux 00:24:07 And I know there are people there are people in companies out there that are doing something similar. But your approach seems to be different because you're using a API to or an AI to do an API, and you've got your GPS for hiring. Get started today and you've got these charts and everything. I think that's that's cool. But the I think need is you're using AI to do it. So can you. Without revealing too much. Can you talk a little bit about how are you using the AI to to figure all this out?

Kyle Harbaugh 00:24:36 So we we have subject matter experts that we've trained on a ton of data. So our system Some uses over 113 different experts and their knowledge base. And so all the experience that all those experts bring comes to about 2500 years of experience. So it's a tremendous amount of expertise consolidated into one system. Because, look, I know you've been running your practice for a long time. I know other people have to. I know you guys have, you know, done great things, but you get 113 experts in a room.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:25:15 You're going to see some things you didn't expect to see or hadn't considered. And so this is a way to to get a detached perspective and unbiased perspective. It's not oh well, I like their hair or I like the way they dress or whatever. It's it's data and it's data in several different categories. It's it's talking about, you know, the personality, their personal goals, their skill set. It's also telling you how to manage them on the back end. So if you get the complete report, it not only tells you the hiring decision piece who you should hire, but it's telling you how to onboard them, how to train them, how to retain them. So it's really giving really great insights that go beyond just the hiring decision. For instance, one of our clients, they hired somebody. They were a great fit. But one of the interesting things that the report brought out was that this person was really big on physical, like paper, and they're a fully digital firm. And so what they ended up doing what it recommended.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:26:22 The report recommended is you should print out all your material and give it to them in a, in a packet. So because they're going to learn it better and they're going to refer to it more and they're going to use it more. And sure enough they love that they it resonated with them a lot more. And it was just a neat, interesting little way to bring this person to help them become part of the firm. Quicker, easier. And so our clients, they a lot of times they take these reports and they keep them close by and they refer to them later on beyond the hiring decision.

Tyson Mutrux 00:26:59 Yeah, we we used to use a company called trilogy that had something. They're doing it differently. But there it was something similar where we got a report and it was interesting because I when I talked to the lady, they talked to you afterwards and you had a little conversation about things and the they it's very been very interesting how like management, how we're able to manage employees when we have this data.

Tyson Mutrux 00:27:23 It's really what is this better data. I'll give you example Chris. Kristen who's in charge of our hiring. She her big thing is, is that they told us in advance. Hey, she she likes to have a task to go and complete the task and then move on to the next task and then complete the task, move on to the next task. So she doesn't do very well though if it's just kind of like, you know, here's the work. Go figure it out. Like you have to give her, you know, you don't give her guidance. Just. She wants to know. She can kind of. It's almost like instant gratification. And so we we did kind of design things around that. Like, you do this, you do that. And so it's it's invaluable advice that you can get from these from these reports. I want to I want to go back to the step. I though I think that's what you're talking about before.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:28:04 Yeah. The step AI is are the first thing I was mentioning.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:28:08 Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:28:09 Right. And I should have started with that I guess. But I, I was so excited about when to talk about the, the right hire eye.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:28:15 Right hire is very exciting. And I mean like I said before talent management is really the big hurdle that law firms are up against. And it starts with a good solid hiring process. If you can't get a players into your business, everything else is downstream of that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:28:31 Yeah. And and so it's cool. You've got this basically you've got this executive summary and the focus report, but you've got the categories clientele, messaging, networking, Product. People. Scale. Service operations, grip, safety, technology. Profitability. Here's my question with this. Because we're not going to go to all the reports. But the thing about this report. But is there one of these categories that is the most important?

Kyle Harbaugh 00:28:59 I mean, here's here's the issue. We everybody's struggles is going to be a little different. And depending on what growth stage they're at.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:29:09 So if they're a small solo practice the big thing is going to be client acquisition and service delivery. Yeah. But if if they're a larger firm their struggles are going to be different. And what we didn't like with other services, other coaching services or whatever. A lot of times it was like a one size fits all system. So it was just kind of this cookie cutter program, which I'm not saying those don't work or they're bad. I'm just saying this is more tailored. And then the other thing we we didn't like is maybe it wasn't considering everything. So oftentimes clients would come to me and they'd say, hey, we have this people problem. Well, it turns out it's not only a people problem, it's a leadership problem. So we have to, you know, address both of those. But you're only aware of the people problem and you're not so focused and aware of these leadership problems. So it's a really good way to assess the whole business and look at everything. Because like for instance, one of those on there is is risk.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:30:13 Risk management is is very important but often neglected as the firm is growing. There has to be good risk management pieces in place because I've seen firms that are rapidly growing and so are their bar complaints or so are the ethics complaints. And so there's a lot of different areas to look at. And we wanted something very holistic so that we could really get around, get get our arms around all the different issues at play.

Tyson Mutrux 00:30:40 Yeah. The last question I want to ask you is about step AI. And you get this customized report and it gives the five biggest opportunities for growth. What are some of the most commonly uncovered opportunities that that and I really, really want to focus on the ones that might surprise law firm owners. So can you think of anywhere like these are the most commonly ones that come up, but maybe they would surprise law firm owners to hear.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:31:03 Yeah. So one that's common is mission vision. Values are not well defined. There's usually a lot of people problems. There's usually a fair bit of like messaging issues that their ideal client profile isn't very well defined.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:31:18 Or there's other messaging work that needs to be done and then actual like, you know, sales, you know, that sort of thing needs to be squared away better. Well, some of it is surprising. Like, I'm just reminded of one client that took our step eye report and afterwards they were like really surprised. Like they're like, wow, this makes so much sense. I had all these ideas swirling around in my head. I just wasn't sure which one made sense. I didn't know which one I should work on first and then or or if this was actually something I should focus on, or if this was really more of a distraction. And so they really they expressed a lot of relief because they, they knew exactly what they needed to work on first, second, third, fourth, fifth. And then it could allow them to focus. And then the other thing that we really like about the report is we can now hand it to team members. And so he he was immediately going through it and going, oh, step two, I don't need any help with that.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:32:21 I have somebody who can help with that. I'll just give the report to them. And now they know and we can all get on the same page. And, and so it's it's really good to align the team.

Tyson Mutrux 00:32:32 I love that. All right Kyle we're going to wrap it up there. But if people want to reach out, if they want to get in touch with you or if they want to know more about step II I or right higher. I give them all the details.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:32:43 Yeah. So chief go officers is our one website. And then right here I com is our other website. I'd love to connect with you on LinkedIn. I'm very active on LinkedIn and so I'd love to connect with you. Tyson I was curious, what was your biggest takeaway for today?

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:02 The I guess my favorite part, I guess not my biggest takeaway, my biggest my favorite part is probably in the what I want to talk to you the most about was the right hire stuff. I really, I really did.

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:12 Leadership is obviously really, really important. I do have I think we need to do a follow up episode because I want to ask you about whenever you determine that a leader does is not the right leader, how do you fix that solution, especially when the leaders at the top. So I think that that I think that's an interesting part of the conversation.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:33:29 So that is that is definitely a interesting part of the conversation. Yeah. Yeah. So I really appreciate it. I'd love to come back and I'd love to, you know, connect with your listeners. So if anybody wants to connect with me, you know, shoot me a text, I'll give you my phone number right now. (224) 628-9935. You can reach out to me, talk to me about your business concerns. Connect with me on LinkedIn. tell me that we you heard this podcast, and that's how you came. You know, to know about me. I'd love to connect with you and speak about your business and see how we can help it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:34:07 I love it, Kyle. So great to have you on. And we're we're going to have to set up the in-person podcast. So let's.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:34:11 Do it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:34:12 Let's do it. We talk about leadership and and that big. That's a big one. So I think that that'd be a fun one to talk about. So I really appreciate it. Thanks for coming on and sharing all your knowledge. And hopefully we'll people reach out about step by and right. Hi. I so see you.

Kyle Harbaugh 00:34:26 My pleasure. Thank you.