Unlocking the Power of Social Media with Julio Oyhanarte

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Are you a lawyer who is looking to create a better social media presence? In this engaging episode of the Maximum Lawyer Podcast, Jim and Tyson converse with Julio Oyhanarte, the world's most followed immigration lawyer. Julio shares his journey of leveraging social media to educate and connect with immigrants on U.S. immigration processes. 

Social media can be leveraged by lawyers to not only boost a business presence but attract followers and potential clients. For Julio, authenticity is necessary for success as a lawyer on social media. You need to present exactly as you are so those who want to connect and work with you are not being fooled. 

Gaining a following on social media also involves good timing and effective content strategies to do well. It is important to decide what works for you. Is it short form content? Do you prefer longer form videos chatting about certain legal topics? You need to think about how to use social media to your benefit.

Julio provides some tips to lawyers who are trying to utilize Tiktok. It is difficult to capture people’s attention in this day and age. Because of this, you need to get people’s attention right away. Julio emphasizes the need to think about the first frame. Think about how it looks, what you say and what is in the background. You need to offer them something that they want or maybe something they should learn. Hook people to get them interested and then provide the important content.

Take a listen to learn more!

Jim's Hack: Read the book called “Start, Scale, Exit, Repeat: Serial Entrepreneurs’ Secrets Revealed!” by: Colin C. Campbell — which talks about how to build something to allow you to sell it.

Julio’s Tip: Think about the quote “People will remember how you enter the stage and how you leave it”. Think about how to hook someone in and the last impression for someone to remember you.

Tyson's Tip: Read a book called “Winning the Story Wars by: Jonah Sachs” which helps you rethink how to tell your story using different topics like politics and business.

This post may contain affiliate links that we would receive a commission on.

Episode Highlights:

  • 2:38 insights on authenticity for success in social media
  • 8:02 Good timing and effective content strategies for success 
  • 16:32 Essential tips for lawyers considering TikTok

Connect with Julio:

Resources:

    Transcripts: Unlocking the Power of Social Media with Julio Oyhanarte

    Jim (00:00.9)
    Welcome back to the Maximum Lawyer Podcast. I'm Jim Hacking.

    Maximum Lawyer (00:04.275)
    Woo. That was the, I'm Tyson Metrix. That was the most exciting intro you've done. How you doing Jimbo?

    Jim (00:11.622)
    I'm great. I'm great. How are you? is our last recording session of the day, so I'm excited.

    Maximum Lawyer (00:16.935)
    Yeah, less than normal. We must have more in the can, is good. Some days we've had like six. This is, think, four for the day. So not too bad. I guess it's about normal. It's about normal. So four, not too bad, not too bad. But I'm really excited. We were just chatting with our guest and it's going to be a one. it's, I love the bio. I think it's funny because of Jimbo and his immigration, but I just think it's fantastic. It's Julio.

    Jim (00:25.308)
    Yeah.

    Maximum Lawyer (00:45.703)
    Oyanarte is the world's most followed immigration lawyer. That's my favorite part of all of it because Jim has spent a lot of time when it comes to people following him on YouTube and everything. I just think it's fantastic. I went through all your social media profiles and I think that that's accurate. He's the most followed immigration lawyer with a community of 13 million followers.

    and over 2 billion video views across social media with more than 17 years of legal experience. provides guidance and advocacy to immigrants worldwide. Love it. Julio, welcome to the show.

    Julio Oyhanarte (01:20.224)
    Hi, Tyson. Hi, Jim. Thanks for having me.

    Jim (01:22.524)
    For sure. So we were introduced to Julio through our friend Ryan McKean. Ryan thought Julio would be a great guest for us. I wanted to have him on because I wanted to ask sort of about some of the ways that he uses social media and teaches people in foreign countries about how to come to the United States. But Julio, welcome to the show.

    Julio Oyhanarte (01:40.642)
    Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, social media is changing everything for lawyers. It started slow for me at first. You know, the typical thing was creating these platforms with the name of my law firm, DGO Legal. Nobody cared. Besides my mother and my siblings, I have seven siblings. I had like, plus my father, I had like nine followers. But then I was like, this is wrong. We should do something that tries to connect more with people. And so I put…

    Unfortunately, my face and my name, and we rebranded quite quickly, I would say, to Immigration TV in English and Inmigracion TV in Spanish. But we started in Spanish.

    Maximum Lawyer (02:22.595)
    So I have a question. It may be kind of a silly question, but I noticed in your videos, you have a lot of energy. You've got a lot of energy just talking to you. I just, and beforehand, I can just tell you, you've got energy. Do you think that people with, with that don't have like your personality, your charisma can still succeed on, on social media, YouTube, you name it. Or do you, or do you think there's sort of like, there's a pocket of people for everybody? Cause it, it, does seem like people that are

    have like your energy do have more successful, channels, whether it's on Tik TOK or YouTube or whatever, maybe. what are your thoughts on that?

    Julio Oyhanarte (02:59.874)
    That's a good question. Actually, I think everyone can succeed if they do the right thing. That being said, in this short-form video world that we are living right now, this explosion on every platform, including LinkedIn right now, that's a new thing. I think that you need to have at least some energy because that's creating more engagement. That being said, the answer will depend on what are your goals. Do you want a lot of followers or do you want to?

    expand your law firm or your business. Because I think like in the end, what's most important is that this may sound like a cliche, but you need to be authentic. If you don't have high energy, don't try to have high energy because never underestimate the public. People will know that you're posing as something that you are not. So for example, my business partner, Gianfranco, he's more not as energetic as myself, but his brain, he knows a lot about immigration and we go live.

    together, we make videos together sometimes, and he has his own personality and a lot of people like him more over myself and that's perfect. So my advice would be, yeah, you need to have some engaging energy, but be yourself over anything.

    Jim (04:16.688)
    How did your channels grow? How did your popularity grow? Talk about that.

    Julio Oyhanarte (04:22.284)
    So I started slow, but then I started research. I had a marketing advisor. This is 2020. And he said, you should do TikTok. Back in the day, TikTok was not like it was today. I was like, I'm a lawyer. It's like, I have a lot of years of experience, master's degree, worked in Kong, blah, blah. Like, am I going to go to TikTok? That's for little kids dancing. We lawyers are self-aware that we are lawyers, blah.

    I got that in my mind. I started doing some research about the platform and other platforms. It's like, OK, maybe this works for the marketing of my firm. And so I started looking at some other lawyers that were there already to see what were they doing, the things that were working for them, and then try to put my own thing. And after doing a lot of research, not only among lawyers, but other creators, I

    posted my first, I call it my first horrible video because now I watch it and I cringe about it. But I did a few things that were right at that time. And that video exploded. My first video, this is not the story that I started with 2000 videos, it never worked. And suddenly one day, no, that's not my story. My story is that my first video exploded. That's not normal. But I did a lot of research before posting. And that, yeah, the first video worked, but I wouldn't recommend that to people, to lawyers, because

    I have this phrase that helped me a lot at the beginning, is, and today, which is done is better than perfect. People try and that's a way of masking our insecurities that we are not good enough for people will like me or not. People will troll me. what I know is, is it valuable about what I know to other people or not? Just put whatever you can at first and start learning by doing, you know, that's, that's my advice. But so my first video really exploded. it never stopped in Spanish.

    And then fast forward 2022, Gianfranco told me, you should do the videos in English as well. And as you can tell, I don't have a perfect English, far from it. And I'm aware of that. I promise you I'm much more intelligent in Spanish. I feel trapped in English. Anyways, I was like, yeah, in English, no, but I will make mistakes. A lawyer making mistakes while the lawyer is speaking is a bad thing for the brand. you know, OK, let's try and do it.

    Julio Oyhanarte (06:43.274)
    First video got 1.4 million views on TikTok. I had zero followers. Why? Because I already had two years of experience. I knew what worked, what didn't. And my accent, my mistakes, doesn't matter. They don't matter. It works anyway. Even for an Argentinian trying to speak in English. So that's not important. And yeah, and fast forward now, we're reaching hopefully 14 million followers across platforms. 2 billion video views is…

    these numbers I just don't understand them but that's what's going on so yeah that's story.

    Maximum Lawyer (07:19.209)
    Yeah. So I want to ask you, you've got a really interesting background. Your grandfather was a Supreme Court justice in Argentina. You worked in the Argentine Congress. You worked in the judiciary and you also in the private sector. And I don't know how big of a following you had or how well known you were in Argentina, but like, so if someone starts a channel today and they're really famous for something, they're going to get a lot of followers.

    How much of the success that you saw early on was because you were already sort of pretty well known or was it sort of this recipe that you followed based on the research you had done on social media? Which would you attribute to it more? And if there was, if there was like, what sort of a recipe that you followed, what was that? What was that formula you were using?

    Julio Oyhanarte (08:07.232)
    OK, so no, I was not well known at all. My name is well known because I'm named after my grandfather within the legal industry. He was a Supreme Court justice twice during a few years. And he's well respected among lawyers and my law professors. But that didn't have any impact in social media at all. No, my formula was like, I think I had good timing, like entering

    TikTok at the early stage, but I think it's not now. It's not late at all. But I was one of probably the first lawyers there. There were some lawyers before me, as I said. But then I think the key was trying to like my short form video work really well. And that's bringing you a lot of good things. So short form video is good for a lot of things, but it's not good for other things.

    Good things are, bring awareness. So it's the top of your marketing funnel. People will look at you and see you. It's good to start building your email list if you give a lead magnet of something of value in exchange for an email. And then you start gathering your own data to sell other stuff and send more information in the future. Yeah, so that was driving all the following.

    That doesn't mean like short form content doesn't mean necessarily that you will get a lot of clients as a lawyer. It's for awareness, but it's not great to build community. It's not great to sign a client right away because they just saw a 30 second video. example, two days ago, I posted a video on Instagram, sorry, on TikTok in Spanish. It got 11 million views. That gave me over a hundred thousand emails from people interested in that video.

    in exchange for a lead magnet. But that doesn't mean they will hire afterwards. But I had a hundred thousand emails now, and I will give them more in value.

    Maximum Lawyer (10:08.409)
    What was the lead magnet? I've got to, I've got to ask, what was the lead magnet? Cause that's impressive.

    Julio Oyhanarte (10:12.416)
    So this is about a program that is really exciting for the immigrants, which is the Diversity Green Card program or the Green Card Lottery. The U.S. gives away over 50,000 permanent residences, the Green Card, to foster diversity in immigration from countries with low immigration rates. And so people get really excited about this program because it's a huge price. And so I offer them a free guide, giving them tips about the program, the requirements.

    Very simple, but giving value. And so I told him, hey, the lottery is about to start. Don't use the word lottery on social media because you may get banned because of the community guidelines. The US is giving away 50,000 green cards. This is amazing. But there are some requirements, blah, Go to the link in my bio and download the guide for more information. So it's giving them something. And it has to be of value.

    Don't try to trick people to give them the email and then you give nothing. Now give them something that's good. It's a way of creating trust and you need to give value all the time. Part of my marketing is trying to give without asking in return. I see a lot of people trying to sell all the time. I don't do that. I just give information and then some people hire. Eventually, yeah, I tell if you want more, click in the link in my bio and then they can hire. But I'm not trying to sell all the time.

    Yeah, that's what I do. But yeah, and the same video worked in English, but half. had five million views. So it also worked. So these numbers are insane. But I'm offering something, you know.

    Jim (11:50.396)
    Julio, have you developed anything in between the free magnet and someone actually hiring you, like a course or anything? Is there anything else that you've been able to do to work with that big list that you have?

    Julio Oyhanarte (12:02.784)
    Yes. So what I do is first you give a short form video giving value. Then at the end, the call to action should be, if you want more, you can get the free guide in the link in my bio. When they download that PDF or whatever you give them, you get the email. Then you have an automated email sequence, giving more free value or driving people to a YouTube video. I don't know, a 10 minute video or something like that. Give them more, more insights. And

    Every step of the way, they have a button to start the case with us. Then what I tried a few months ago was a free online course about asylum. It was like 14 classes teaching stuff for free. In every class, you had a button to start the case with us. So that was an experiment, you know, giving a free course, complete class course. And that worked really well. We got a lot of clients out of that.

    And of course, many of these people cannot even hire because they are outside the US. They're just thinking about asylum that they are in Guatemala. You know, they don't even hear. But still, it's valuable for them. And then what happens three months ago, four months ago, after the fact, after I launched the course, during consultations with potential clients, they said, I watched your course while I was in Ecuador. So I started thinking about you. By the time this person reached the US,

    I was in top of their minds, you know? So you need a lot of points in the middle before someone, you know, being excited to hire you. And in my opinion, the thing that works better are live streaming. Live streams are really good because then you can show your personality more. At the beginning, I had an advisor saying, Julio, should post five videos per day. That's insane. I don't do that. But

    One out of five should be about your personality. I don't do that. I don't like it. I don't know how can anyone can care about it. But during the live stream, people ask me, where are you from? What's your soccer team? And that's a chance of showing my personality because people are asking, not because I'm saying it. And that creates a bond and builds trust in some weird way. But it does because people look at you and see that you're a relatable person and some people connect with you and some will hire you. But yeah.

    Julio Oyhanarte (14:24.684)
    having as many data points in the middle before having the call with a potential client.

    Maximum Lawyer (14:33.157)
    When it comes to live streaming, do you do something where it's like a live show where you just take questions? Because I know Jim has like a Q &A kind of a thing. And what's the frequency? What's the setup of the show and then what's the frequency?

    Julio Oyhanarte (14:45.474)
    That's a great question. I made a lot of mistakes here. At first I went live and I was just answering what people were asking. That's a mistake. I mean, you can do that, but you need to think not only about the live stream going on right now, but what will happen with the recording afterwards. Example, I had a live stream. Most of my live streams on YouTube had like after the fact, like 2000 views. was like, what's, what's going on? It's not working. Then I switched and I did like.

    a mini class, of course, thumbnail of a topic, title, that's really important, that are combined. Then hook, talking about the topic for 20 minutes, giving value, ignoring the questions. And then you answer something. And then that video got 350,000 views, that live stream. That was the first time, it was a few weeks ago. So I switched my strategy and it's working. Some don't work, but what I do right now is,

    mini class, ignore questions, and then answer something at the end related to the topic. Example, how to get a tourist visa. And I a lot of information about that. And then I answered questions about the tourist visa. So the person watching this two years after the live streaming on YouTube, they will be engaged about the topic that you promised with the thumbnail and the title.

    So that's my strategy now. But I mean, you can do a random live stream without any given topic, but that won't work in the future. That's my opinion. then frequency. I think it's important if you can have, like people can anticipate that at a given time or day you will be there. I'm not good at that. I'm trying to be better at it. So in general, I go live like 7 PM Pacific for the Latin American community. And then

    at noon for Europe, Asia and Africa, for the people outside the US in other time zones. So twice a day, that's what I'm trying to get better at, but it's a lot of work because I work as a lawyer at the same time.

    Jim (16:54.116)
    You mentioned earlier that you got into TikTok early and you also said that it's not anywhere close to being too late to get into TikTok. For lawyers that are thinking about doing TikTok, what advice do you have, Julio?

    Julio Oyhanarte (17:05.978)
    done is better than perfect. Don't, you don't need a million followers. Have a strong hook. You don't have four seconds to grab people's attention. You probably want have one second or a frame. So think about the first frame. What are they looking at? What's in the background? What are you saying? Are you using emojis? Are you using a title? What are the colors, colors there? And then offer people something. Think.

    really quick lesson that I learned from an amazing book called, you probably guys read this, How to Make Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie's 1936 book. And he says, I love strawberries with cream. That's what I like. And then I also like to go fishing in Maine during the summer. And when I'm building bait, I don't put strawberries with cream there, which is what I like. I use worms, which is what the fish want. And I want to get fish.

    And so this simple idea is really powerful when you think about it and when you apply it for many things in your life. For TikTok, I start my video saying, do you want a green card? Do you want a tourist visa? Do you want to win asylum? Did you know that blah, blah? Because I see a lot of people, lawyers saying, I'm Julio, the immigration lawyer, and blah, blah. Nobody cares. Sorry, sorry. Nobody does. You can say that.

    After they are hooked to build authority and they say, this guy's a lawyer. Okay. He must know what he's talking about. That's important, but not at the beginning. So hook them. And then once you hook people, it's easier to keep them watching the video. The hard part is to hook them. Once they are there, you need to deliver the value proposition. You need to. Otherwise, even if you trick, you may trick people into watching the whole video with hook tricks, but then the platforms will learn.

    that people didn't like the video. How? They have infinite data points. On YouTube, for example, they do conduct surveys after the video. Why? Because you need to know what the platform wants. This applies to every platform. We all know these platforms want people to watch for as many hours as possible so they can serve ads. Everyone talks about it. We all know that. But YouTube…

    Julio Oyhanarte (19:26.54)
    clearly stated that Todd Bupre, which is the discovery engineer, meaning the algorithm guy, he said, YouTube also wants that people want to enjoy the video. Why? Because if you trick people into watching the whole video and they didn't like the experience, they will switch the platform. I said, yeah, I watched four hours, I learned nothing. Or I watched 30 seconds, I didn't learn what the hook promised. So I don't like this video, even if they watch all of

    So you need to deliver the value proposition at the end of it. And you need to give at the end of it, I wouldn't say a dopamine effect, but you need to end the video high as well. Because if the people like, they will remember the end of it and they will, some of them take action, meaning follow you, share, like, comment, download your free guide. So I would say that, know, for short-form video, do that. Hook them, keep them.

    build authority saying who you are, but once they're hooked, deliver what you promise and then give them a call to action to keep them. Otherwise they will keep on scrolling and forget you.

    Maximum Lawyer (20:35.334)
    So I'm, fascinated by this. No, no, this is great. I've actually been taking notes. Yeah. It's, fantastic. I've been taking a lot of notes and I I don't always do that. usually I'm like, I try to stay engaged, but I'm actually taking a lot of notes on this. I do wonder, it sounds like you've put a ton of time into the video part of the process. How does that compare to like your case process? Cause you said you, you know, you're, you're actually practicing as a lawyer too. So you're not just doing the videos you're doing both.

    Julio Oyhanarte (20:36.31)
    Sorry if I talk too much.

    Jim (20:37.934)
    It's great. It's all gold.

    Maximum Lawyer (21:04.751)
    And how much time do you dedicate to do that part as well? Cause part of the problem is you, you, you could present really, really well. Cause sometimes there is a disconnect between the lawyer that looks great on the screen and then their performance when it comes to the case. And that disconnect is not great. Cause if you look great and then you don't perform well, that's, that's a recipe for disaster. So how do you, I do wonder how your process compares for your case process compared to the video process. Cause I'm, that is, I'm very pressed.

    Julio Oyhanarte (21:33.654)
    Yeah, so good question. The key there is delegation. That's the word. So I do a lot of consults per day plus video. And then I work some specific cases. But then I have a team of lawyers helping me, my business partners and other lawyers and a great team. And so I settled the expectation. When I do a consultation, for example, sometimes they ask, are you going to go to court for me?

    Like, I don't do that part of the job. And I tell him, no, but this other lawyer is my business partner. I studied with him at law school. And he's doing this every day. That's the person that goes to court. But you have a team of lawyers looking at your case. It's not just me. I'm part of the team. But I have people better than me doing other parts of the job. And that's great. And sometimes the consultation goes to another lawyer. Another lawyer starts the consultation. And we didn't have any problem with that. I was concerned about that. Say no, people.

    look at me and they will expect me to be all over the case during the two years that it lasts. Or once they build trust with other people that you know that are good, that's fine. I protect the brand because they trust me. And that's for me, it's the only thing I have at the end of the day, which is trust. And if you lose that, you're done. And so it's really important who are your business partners or if you're solo, your employees. So I try to build the best team that I can and invest in that.

    Also for video, you know, video editor, have two video editor, in-house video editors, community managers. I'm not doing this alone, although I put a lot of effort into it, but I delegate also the video part. But yeah, it's really hard to find a balance. What worked for me was having obviously a schedule and try to batch content as well for filming. So once I turn on the camera, I try to film as much as I can. I don't know, five TikTok videos, I script them before and that gives me more time. Otherwise you need to…

    put the lightning, the camera, the microphone. It takes a lot of time every time you're filming. Also, I make it easy to film. I have a studio that is already set up and it's really easy. I just switch on a few lights and that's it. It's ready to go. But yeah, it's a challenge. It's a challenge for me to try to balance my social media appearances, appearance with the practice.

    Julio Oyhanarte (23:57.812)
    a challenge. I haven't figured it out perfectly.

    Jim (24:01.318)
    So, Huli, what's your favorite kind of content to create? What kind of, which platforms and which topics?

    Julio Oyhanarte (24:06.934)
    My favorite platform is my least successful one, which is YouTube. I take it as a challenge, you know? It's hard to grow on YouTube, but I like it for many reasons. The evergreen content there could be watched for the years to come. TikTok, you explode and you die. So for example, 11 million views, boom, but then it dies. That video is gone. Nobody's going to watch it again. It's great. It's 11 million folks, know, but then it dies.

    The evergreen content on YouTube, I have clients coming that watch a video that I filmed three years ago, two years ago. I had videos that exploded on YouTube one year after the fact, you know. So YouTube is the customer service is there is better. And I take it as a challenge, you know, that's what I like it the most. But obviously, TikTok is what has given me the most because we have more followers there. We are reaching six million in Spanish there, one point eight soon in English on TikTok.

    And it's quite stable with the views that I have in general. Meta is it comes and goes. So Instagram and Facebook, sometimes I'm exploding and sometimes my views drop like crazy. I don't know why it's the same content that I'm posting. And regarding to the part of the question, my favorite content, I really enjoy when I try to mix education, legal education with with entertainment.

    I think that's explosive. If you can match those things, you can reach more people. At the end of the day, you need also to ask yourself, what are your goals? You want to have one million followers, 100,000 million followers. know, what for? What's the reason behind that? Because you, and I think this is a message that is important for the lawyers that are listening to us. You don't need a million followers to be successful on social media. You don't need a hundred thousand followers to do that.

    You can start having a great practice with a few followers. Riches are in the niches or something like that is the phrase. I believe that. You can start opening the top of your funnel talking about legal pop things like discussing the Amber Heard versus Johnny Depp case. That's fine. You will get a lot of views, but not necessarily a lot of clients.

    Julio Oyhanarte (26:28.406)
    Don't expect social media to pay you a lot of money in ad revenue also, because a lot of people think that, if you make it on YouTube, you make a lot of money. Yeah, but if you have millions and millions of views, if you have a couple of hundred thousands views, you won't make a lot of money through AdSense. So the thing is try to make money through clients. You know, that's that's a powerful thing. The other day I was listening to another podcast, not as successful as this one, but they were talking about a real estate company in Dallas that had

    5,000 followers, subscribers on YouTube. Not a lot, but they were making millions of money. Why? Because they were targeting real estate people with money in Dallas, you know, and that's really niche. And if you watch that, you feel like they're talking to you and therefore you're more likely to hire that company. So don't go crazy trying to have a lot of followers. That's kind of vanity metric in a way. But depends on what you are, your goals, obviously. I think most lawyers try to expand their practice, you know.

    So that would be my advice.

    Maximum Lawyer (27:29.833)
    I love this. This is great. Lots of great, great information. I am, I'm sadly going to have to say we're going to wrap things up. I won't, we want to be respectful of your time, but anytime you want to come on, we're happy to have you because it's you're great. The, do want to plug you a little bit when it comes to your channels, TikTok, immigration TV. You also have this, I'm going to give the English versions, not the Spanish versions.

    It looks like it's immigration TV on, on Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, and then also YouTube. So check those out. lot of great, just a lot of great content that you're putting on. that's, that's really awesome. if people want to reach out to you and have questions, how can they reach out to you?

    Julio Oyhanarte (28:13.836)
    DMs on social media. have a, look at them, not all of them, but I have a team reading that or my email is julio at D G O dot legal. can write me an email and happy to engage.

    Maximum Lawyer (28:27.433)
    I was going to ask you about that if you actually check your DMs, if you have someone check them. So we've had guests on that they have someone check them, but that's interesting that you check your own.

    Julio Oyhanarte (28:35.074)
    I tried to do it because, sorry to interrupt, I think it's really important to understand the warmth of the fish, what your audience wants. And so I read comments all the time. I read comments all the time because you get ideas and inspiration first. Second, you get the reaction. Third, you understand your avatar, your avatar or your multiple avatars.

    And they're not only their demographics, but their psychographics. What do they aspire? What are their fears, concerns, and that therefore you can create and engage better in the future once you start reading your comments. I think it's a mistake not to read them. It's part of my job. And I enjoy it and people are really nice. So, and when there's a hater, I just block and move forward. Go for it. Yeah.

    Maximum Lawyer (29:25.353)
    I'm not, I'm not coming to get the, worms out of my head. I'm going to have to like, it's just, I think I like the way you put it when it comes to like the strawberries and all that, like that's the cream or whatever. Yeah. I still love it though. I just, I just don't, it's, it's been so long ago since I've read that book. just, I don't remember that part, but have to go back and check it out. But I've thought about rereading that book for a long time. Maybe it's time to go do it, but all right, we are going to wrap things up before I do. would love to have you all in the Facebook group. So search maximum lawyer in face on Facebook. You'll find us there.

    Julio Oyhanarte (29:33.9)
    That's Dale Carnegie, I'm stealing his phrase, but I'm citing.

    Maximum Lawyer (29:55.477)
    You'll probably also see whenever you search Maximaloy, you'll see the guild. if you want more information about that, go to maxlawguild.com. And I guarantee you got something from this episode. I guarantee it. if you did, we'd love it if you gave us a five-star review. It helps us get the word out to lawyers all over the world so they can improve their firms. Jimmy, what is your heck of the week?

    Jim (30:20.23)
    Julio, this was great. Thanks so much for being with us. I really appreciate it. Lots of good guidance for all of us. My book, my Hack of the Week is a book. Tyson's tired of me recommending books all the time, but this one's a good one. It was recommended by our friend Victoria Collier. It's called Start, Scale, Exit, Repeat. It's a good primer on how to build something that would allow you to sell it. So other than Build to Sell, which I think is the best book on it, I think this one's right up there.

    Maximum Lawyer (30:46.493)
    I listen anytime you want to recommend Victoria. think that's that's great. Is it her book? okay. Gotcha. One, but.

    Jim (30:53.072)
    No, uh-uh. It's somebody who started like 27 different companies.

    Maximum Lawyer (30:58.589)
    Gotcha. Okay. Very good. Yep. The Victoria Collier is fantastic too. So, very good. right. Well, Julio, we always ask our guests to give a tip or a hack of the week. What you got for us?

    Julio Oyhanarte (31:10.85)
    I'm going to quote Maria Callas, the famous legendary opera singer. She said, people will remember especially how you enter the stage and how you leave it. I think this applies for social media, for sales, for negotiation, how you start the hook that we spoke about it, but also how you leave them at the end of it. So think about that while you're trying to talk to a potential client, when you create a video.

    or you're negotiating with something. And then the last impression is the lasting impression. It's really important how you finish that. But to finish, you need to start somehow. So both things are really important. Nobody's talking, everyone's talking about the hook. I want to also focus at the end of the video or the conversation.

    Maximum Lawyer (32:01.033)
    Love it. That's great stuff. Well, Jim, was giving you crap for recommend another book, but I have to recommend the one that I don't think I've recommended before. It was one that our really good buddy, David Haskins, had recommended. He had presented to our firm about a month and a half ago. it was about, it was some marketing stuff. Some of it was like networking, but was a lot of it was like getting your story out there. And he recommended a book called Story Wars.

    And it's a really good book. I think it's good. I think it's fitting for this topic because we are sort of developing a story whenever we're recording online and all the content that we put out, we are developing the story. And it does help you kind of rethink and reframe the way you want to tell your story. And they give examples from politics. They give examples from business. So I do find it really interesting. if you've not read

    read or listen to that book. It's an easy read, so I highly recommend it. Story Wars. Julio, thank you so much for coming on. Like I said, I took a bunch of notes. think it was great talking to you too. You got a lot of great energy. I mentioned that a few times, but it is nice talking to people that have really good energy because it's nice little flow to the show. But thanks for taking the time to come on and sharing your expertise. Really appreciate it.

    Julio Oyhanarte (33:23.872)
    No, on the contrary, it's an honor for me, guys. Thank you so much. I enjoyed the conversation. And hopefully, your audience will learn at least one thing from out of this. Hopefully, they do.

    Jim (33:34.618)
    Awesome, thanks Julio. See you buddy.

    Julio Oyhanarte (33:36.77)
    Take care.

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