In this episode, Jim and Tyson choose a random city and practice area and run the search on the google to see what comes up. Then they give their thoughts on the firm’s website from a marketing standpoint. Great episode.
Jim and Tyson are both huge fans of the “I Love Marketing Podcast”, and in one of their episodes, “Yellowpages Roulette”, they do something like this but using the Yellow Pages.
Random location and practice area: Sacramento, California – Bankruptcy.
1st Case Study: http://www.sacramentobankruptcy.com/
2nd Case Study: http://www.sacramentobankruptcyattorneys.com/
– Content
– Layout
– Design
– Lead magnets
– Information
– and more!
Both case studies have lots of pros and cons, lessons and huge take aways! What are your thoughts about them? Please comment!
Hacking’s Hack: From Google Hangouts you can make calls! If you are a user of Google Hangouts, calls are really easy to make!
Tyson’s Tip: A book. “Tribes: We Need You to Lead Us” by Seth Godin.
It’s great! About building communities and being part of them.
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Transcript: Google Search Roulette!
Jim Hacking
Oh Tyson, I have a fun show in store for all of our listeners today. Even you will be surprised by the topic at hand. I haven’t even told you what it is. We’re going to do this live without a net. So are you ready?
Tyson Mutrux
Okay. Not really. But yeah, let’s do it.
Unknown Speaker
Run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum liar, podcast, podcast, your hosts, Jim hacking and Tyson metrics. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm.
Jim Hacking
Welcome to the show. You’re back on the maximum lawyer Podcast. I’m Jim hacking.
Tyson Mutrux
And I’m texting matrix was calling me.
Jim Hacking
All right. So I as you know, I’m a big fan of I love marketing. It’s one of my favorite podcasts. I listen to it religiously. I’ve listened to most of the episodes twice. Although I will say I sort of drifted off it lately because it’s become more of the Genius Network Joe Polish show, but I still get a lot of value out of it. A lot of the old episodes are really helpful. My favorite episode, and I think one of their most popular episodes is an episode called Yellow Pages roulette. Did you ever hear that one? Yeah. It was great. Yeah. So for the listeners who don’t know about Yellow Pages roulette, what they do is they whenever the new Yellow Pages arise a Dean’s house, he brings it in and Joe yells out a page number and they find an occupation and they start riffing on what they think the person should do from a marketing standpoint. And what I thought we could do is you could pick a city, and I could pick a practice area, and we could run the search on the Google see what comes up. And then we could give our thoughts on the firm’s website. What do you think?
Tyson Mutrux
Nice. I like it. That’s good. That’s a good one. Let’s do it.
Jim Hacking
So pick a city.
Tyson Mutrux
I’m gonna pick Sacramento,
Jim Hacking
Sacramento, California. Okay. Bigger practice area, so I will pick bankruptcy. So type in Sacramento, California bankruptcy. And we’ll see what comes up to do it.
Tyson Mutrux
Yep. All right. So
Jim Hacking
three, little three pack for Google. I have Adam Garcia Frehley and Frehley and Sacramento bankruptcy center.
Tyson Mutrux
I have no I have Frehley and Frehley. Sacramento bankruptcy attorneys attorney debt reset. And then Lloyd Shea bankruptcy attorney.
Jim Hacking
Isn’t it funny that we both got two different things? Yeah. Well, that’s up price about that sometime. why that is? Well, Frehley. And Fraley, they have five stars. So maybe we’ll start with them. Second, look up something called the Sacramento bankruptcy center and see if you can find their website. I like the official sounding name of that one.
Tyson Mutrux
Bankruptcy center. Okay, got it. There’s no stars. Alright, so
Jim Hacking
do you see this website?
Tyson Mutrux
I do. It looks like it’s from the 90s. Yeah, it’s very dated,
Jim Hacking
huh? And yeah, for those who want to join in the fun, the website is www dot sacramental bankruptcy.com. Now that’s a pretty good URL, I would say
Tyson Mutrux
we asked a great domain, that’s for sure. So I’ll say the first thing that I see is there is no lead magnet, there’s no really easy way for me to contact the attorneys, I would contact them there’s a Contact button at the top right.
Jim Hacking
Click on that and see what happens. Oh, it’s terrible. Oh, man. So that picture is right there. I don’t know what is the picture of. But back in the day, when I was at talking to Manuel doing maritime work. We hired this guy to design our website. So my partners were I would say, as lawyers, they were rather conservative. You know, we did insurance, defense, and I love those guys. But they were they were not big risk takers. When it came to marketing. And this guy came in I remember he had long curly hair. And hearing this was back in the days. This is what our website looked like back in 2006. With this page was sent to me. And we had a stretch picture of the river. That was like we, Jim, Jim, and I went down with our little 10 pixel cameras. And we thought, dude, they were the greatest things ever. And the guy had to stretch it out to fit on the webpage in order to make it fit. And that’s what this web page looks like. So you can
Tyson Mutrux
submit your information is listed address, the phone number, the fax and email, it does not even give you an opportunity to submit a question or just your name and your email, nothing there. So there’s no way for this attorney to capture leads, which is which is really insane.
Jim Hacking
It’s copyright. I’m going back to the homepage Tyson I’m back to it says copyright 2013. But man, it really looks like it’s from from years ago. And obviously we’re not trying to make fun of anybody. But I really think that I mean, obviously she’s spending a little bit of money to get on the first three pack of Google so it’s probably based on the history of the domain name but I think this thing really needs an update.
Tyson Mutrux
Well, yeah, I will say this. I do like about it, to be honest with you. There’s a section like right in the middle of the page with easy to follow links. It says mission statement. I think maybe that that’s mislabeled was the mission statement. This says mission statement is that resources mislabeled is below it are some really important links for people.
Jim Hacking
Wait, yeah, put your put your mouse on the links. They’re not links. They’re just they look like links.
Tyson Mutrux
Oh, no. Oh my gosh. Now you see, that’s crazy. It makes me furious right now, because I was gonna tell you, these are really, it’s really easy to follow links. And then when you go to do it, there’s nothing there. Okay, I was about to give her a compliment, and I gotta take it. I gotta take it back.
Jim Hacking
Now. Those would all be things that would interest people. Oh, so there is when you click on the UN Espanol button, that does take you to a Spanish version of it. But yeah, this is not very dynamic. It doesn’t look like it’s been updated anytime soon. You know, it also has a lot of the classic lawyer things, you know, since 1992, and experience and quality and we handle chapter seven, chapter 11, Chapter 13. And then there’s there’s about 10 FAQ. So I’m not real sure. What’s going on here. I think there’s not any kind of blog or updated, you know, Latest News, I’m sure that the bankruptcy rules have changed, and that there have been cases that would affect people.
Tyson Mutrux
Well, yeah. And I’ll tell you this, something that we talked about before is consistency. So you’re you’ve got sacrament or bankruptcy attorney. And then when you get to down below, there’s bankruptcy, FAQs, and real estate FAQs. And I really thought that they may be related, they kind of are but they’re not. This isn’t about bankruptcy, the questions on the right, it’s about real estate and foreclosure stuff. And I there’s really no consistency if that portion is related to bankruptcy, which it isn’t. But if it were that she needs to be in the bankruptcy of FAQ section, so it just it’s kind of confusing to me. You know, there’s a bankruptcy website, is this a real estate website? There really is bizarre how it’s how it’s being done. Another thing I wanted to say was, you said, dynamic, that’s actually an industry term. And I want to make sure people know what that is their static website, like this website, and then there are dynamic websites, which are very versatile type websites there. And you and I are no experts in this stuff. Price definitely is. But you want to make sure your website is a dynamic website, it can be used on a mobile phone, tablet, a PC, Mac, whatever it is any browser, this one is not against if we went to it on our cell phones, it would it would just be a regular website, it wouldn’t be a mobile version.
Jim Hacking
I’m going to do that right now. And while we’re talking with so let’s shift gears a little bit we’ve we’ve sort of beaten up this website pretty badly. And so if you are going to sit down if Diana J. Cavanaugh Attorney at Law was your cousin, and she asked you to come in and sort of help her tweak the website, I have some ideas. But I think your lead magnet like what would be a good lead magnet and what you know, I think she’s on the right track with the content, what would be your steps?
Tyson Mutrux
The first thing is, is she doesn’t make content? I mean, obviously, Jimmy, well, maybe it would, I’m trying to think about how I would start with this because there’s just no content. Maybe I would start with a lead magnet. And maybe go with something like the five things you need to look for when before you file for your bankruptcy or the five things you need to do before filing for bankruptcy, or the five biggest bankruptcy mistake, something like that, where you create that lead magnet and get someone to it, you’re actually going to capture their information as they come to your website and download that report. And the thing is, it’s just no content on this website. So she got out a blog section where she had routinely add some content to it on a weekly basis. The other thing is, is that just she’s got the FAQ section, but that’s all there is there’s not if I wanted to learn a lot more about bankruptcy, I wouldn’t be able to you’re not from this website. Yeah. And
Jim Hacking
I think that your lead magnet is a good one. And I think that she’s identified the pain points that people have. People are worried about foreclosure or repossession. People are worried about phone calls all the time, people are worried about wage garnishment, or IRS collection. So I think each of those things would be sort of an avenue for her to create content if she could sort of track the language that her clients use when they come to see her to talk about each of these issues. I think that she really would have the opportunity to build out good content that way, don’t think
Tyson Mutrux
yeah, for sure. And what’s interesting to me is that she has the topics. So for example stop foreclosure and repossession stop phone call, establish garnishment stop IRS collection, eliminate credit cards, eliminate medical bills, all this stuff. She can go in there on each one of those and answer a ton of questions. How She Does it or how it’s done. What’s the process? How long will it take? There’s just a lot of stuff that she needs. So within each one of those topics that she has listed, and in the questions that she has, she has a short question or short answer, she could. So the first part is does the filing bankruptcy get me out of debt permanently? And she just says for most debts, yes, you’ll never have to pay bank discharges unless you want to. There’s a bunch of other questions that she could follow up with. With that one question, to build a lot of content for the website.
Jim Hacking
Yeah. And over in this other column would would are stated as real estate FAQs. I don’t think most people are gonna think about these as real estate FAQs. But the first question, my foreclosure is tomorrow, is it too late to stop it by filing a bankruptcy. So, you know, Dean Jackson, when I was on his show, he talked to me about, you know, insider information. And she answered that it might not be too late now, I’m an attorney. And I didn’t know that you could maybe stop your foreclosure, which is going to happen in 24 hours by filing a bankruptcy. So that surprises me. And that’s sort of like key information that people, especially in an extreme situation, the kind of people who might type that very question, would love to have that information. So I think, you know, building that out, and knocking that out as a content piece would really be helpful.
Tyson Mutrux
Yeah. And with that topic, there could be a really juicy subject line, something like, stop your foreclosure in less than 24 hours, or there could be something like that, where where to let people know that that’s what it’s about, and could be a blog post or website page, and they’re going to be searching for it. So that’s gonna be the page that comes up. And then they can have a lead magnet in some way, or call us immediately at this emergency phone number to stop your foreclosure now, something like that, where they have they know that, hey, this is the issue, and you’re the right person for this. And you’ve actually made me stop this foreclosure. Yeah, that’s the
Jim Hacking
lead magnet, stop your foreclosure today, exclamation point. I mean, that would be something that people would find very compelling. I think you build out its own domain, you link to it off your website, you get a LeadPages account, and you set up the special report, people download it, and then they go into your funnel, because obviously, if people are interested in stopping their foreclosure tomorrow, they’re sure as hell gonna be interested in talking to a bankruptcy attorney.
Tyson Mutrux
Yeah. And that thing, just, we hadn’t talked about this really be maybe think about whenever we were, you were just talking is, there’s only one call to action. It’s just the phone number at the very top. And I think that needs to be more more calls to action.
Jim Hacking
I’m looking at her. So I’ve never seen this before in my entire life. I’m looking at it on my iPhone, and I suggest you do it too. Because not only is it static on the phone, the entire page is on my phone. It’s I’ve never seen anything like it. Yeah, it’s not even zooming in. It’s just like, the whole page is on my phone. I can’t believe it. I’ve never seen anything like that. All right, well, we don’t want to beat up too much on the Sacramento bankruptcy center. But I do think there’s some lessons here for our listeners that they might get value out of this I think we should while you’re looking at up I think we should scroll back and do one more and I think we should go look at the other one that came up pretty prominently which is Frehley and Frehley. They have a loving five star reviews and they came up second and they came up on both of our three packs on the Google Alright, so I’m gonna click on their website Oh, oh wait a minute Beavis. Oh, my wow. Oh. This one might be better.
Tyson Mutrux
See, I wow. Second Goldmine
Jim Hacking
says price on the line emergency calling some price. We found some clients for you know.
Tyson Mutrux
I was gonna be the St. Louis. Attorney. I don’t know.
Jim Hacking
I don’t know if we’re gonna be able to put this episode on the air Tyson.
Tyson Mutrux
I don’t know what this is. I love it’s an industry thing. I’m looking at the St. Louis ones. What?
Jim Hacking
Which one here? Yeah, this
Tyson Mutrux
is there’s a good one. I’m gonna give a props. I mean, props to somebody. All right, Sacramento, Frehley. And Fraley. It’s got a big guy with a big old was a 10 gallon cowboy hat.
Jim Hacking
Yep. But even better than that. So we are at WWW dot Sacramento bankruptcy attorneys.com. Again, a pretty good domain name. I think some of the people with the oldest domain names, at least in Sacramento seem to have frozen their websites back when they got their domain name. Am I first of all, okay, so he has these squares. Oh, there’s actually links to them too. These are all links. So here’s a link to the stakeout. Fornia state of California Board of Legal Specialization has avo 10.0 rating, which is good. He has Yelp and NACA and National Association of consumer bankruptcy students all these buttons at the top. AAA earned a rating from the Better Business Bureau. I don’t know why you want to have these at the top of your website, because Oh, okay. Well, when you click on him, it doesn’t take you. Oh, interesting. So if you click on these buttons, that doesn’t take them off the website, so at least it doesn’t do that it takes them to a special page called certifications where he walks through what each of these ratings mean, that’s actually pretty good. I like that.
Tyson Mutrux
I do too. I was gonna say it’s really cool. Because it says, what, almost scroll down what is the Better Business Bureau logo and why is important to me. And this is most people Yeah, heard of the Better Business Bureau, but I’ve never used it. So it is really cool. I think.
Jim Hacking
I mean, the fonts themselves, the images are all stretched and way too distorted, too, really look clean. But it’s not a bad play. It’s not a bad move to you know, explain what all these things mean. I think a lot of lawyers just like to put I don’t have this on my website, I have images of things, certifications, and things, websites that I’ve been on and things. But I think this is actually pretty good. You know, and
Tyson Mutrux
you haven’t seen this yet, I’m sure because you probably have not gone all the way down to the bottom of the page. But there’s a really cool button, which I’m gonna look into now. It’s called a says rate us on Google. And you click on it, it takes you straight through reviews where you can then rate him and his services. I always try
Jim Hacking
to get that but I can’t I can only get it to the page before not to where you actually write the review. You know what I mean? Yeah, I send people to the Google search where I’m over on the right. And I tell them to click on the right Review button if they’re willing, you know,
Tyson Mutrux
but he opens it, he clicked on it, it actually gets you to the actual reviews straight to the review. Yeah, it’s really good. I’ll do that. By the way. This is a good time. I know you do my links, and I send to people that gives us view, you actually have to click on the reviews and start reading them and you just copy the link later. Very simple. So whenever you’re actually on your reviews, you click all the way through to this where you’re you guys screen just like this. Just copy the link, like
Jim Hacking
Alright, cool. All right now he does have go back to his homepage. Okay. He has this, what he called us this bar on the top that sort of ask different questions. Yeah, there’s a slider. Slider. I’ve never seen one that that sort of dated and old. It looks really old, don’t you think?
Tyson Mutrux
Yeah. It’s interesting to me, because I think maybe this is just a really old theme. It may be a WordPress, I can’t really tell. I think it might be though. It might be a WordPress theme. And it’s just an old theme that probably has never been updated.
Jim Hacking
Now Gary has a YouTube video right underneath that, so I’m gonna check it out. Can you hear it at all? Yep, definitely got a green screen behind him. As a Gary in front of a green screen of the bankruptcy court. It looks like I do like the cowboy hat. It’s sort of right up there with your buddy. From Brown and brown. I’m sure people in Sacramento know Gary Fraley for his bankruptcy in his big 10 gallon hat.
Tyson Mutrux
Here, most of the guy that’s on Shark Tank, and Rottweiler wears the same shirt. And he talks about that on one podcast I listened to that’s really cool to people. He says he’ll he’ll never stand out. But anything else, you know, everyone’s smarter and more competitive. But he were the exact same shirt he found in an airport. He’s on his way to a job interview or something like that. Whenever he thought of doing this. He found the shirt in an airport. And to that stands out and then wore that instead of wearing a suit and end up getting the job and he’s always but they said they want this guy. He wears the hat. And he stands out. There’s something about this, right. So it’s done up with the green screen everything else? I don’t like that. Just because you get this fake going in the background. But I do like is he sort of he sort of raw there’s some of the like the kind of raw Yeah, he’s not too dumb. Yeah, I like
Jim Hacking
it. The oil is less about my videos that are a little bit off. So I think you’re right, I think people you know, I shot a video, like a loyally video talking about the Trump’s executive order, you know, like, with my suit on and everything and that got some views, but I did want on my back porch last week. And we’re up to like 2000 views. So I think that authenticity goes a long way. I mean, I think there’s sort of a fine line. But he does sort of seem that I mean in the text that says Gary Fraley is no three piece suit attorney. However, make no mistake, he knows how to help you in ways almost no other attorney can I mean, that’s like that, and he has a testimonials link. I’m gonna click on that. So that goes on and on and on. So and he’s the one that had the five star reviews on Google and everything. I think he’s, he’s got it going on. I sort of like it.
Tyson Mutrux
Okay, so this is a good example of how that terrible looking website can still do really well for you because he has all the other bones there. So he has a lot of stuff. He doesn’t have a lead magnet because I have calls to action which are nice. I’m just some of the things that you’re nice. People remember for you Like he answers people’s questions, he provides a lot of information. There’s the bankruptcy bill of rights, which I think is interesting. You can submit the information. But my suggestion would be for him is where you submit your contact information. You bump that to the top because it doesn’t property page, or he doesn’t bankruptcy. Say yes, I would be good. He has a different bankruptcy types and what he answers a bunch of questions, but benefit, which is really good. And the font is really easy to read. It’s a bigger font, which I do like they’ve got this FAQs and tools where you can actually I’m quizzing right now Jean calcular. Yep. I mean, this is all helpful information, where if I was gonna file a bankruptcy, he lists what 20 calculators on here.
Jim Hacking
Yeah. And he has about 15 videos, FAQs, and he has all of his avo FAQs on here. So that’s pretty good.
Tyson Mutrux
Yeah. And hey, these are his own. This is his own calculator, he created this, this is actually their own coding, because it sends you to a link on their website, where you actually type in all the information. And it will allow you to create a computer printer friendly report. This is pretty good. I will say this is it’s all dated is it’s right. But I was like can be good. Sometimes.
Jim Hacking
This calculator and things like it are probably things he has in his office that he uses anyway. So to put it out on the web and let people use it. I mean, I think this is an example of just putting out all your best stuff. And people will see your expertise through the your willingness to just give away your best stuff, I really come to the point where I just have no qualms by giving away my best stuff content wise, and then sort of letting the chips fall where they may. You’re absolutely
Tyson Mutrux
right. And I think it’s just so funny, because we have so many tools are at our offices, this is a good a good example of that where you can actually put this content out, you’re already using it, I can already tell you what I have. I’ve got this. It’s a funky name, but distribution competition worksheet. That’s what I called it is partly a joke, this sounds so funny. But in Missouri, we have the Missouri lien statute, which allows us to actually reduce the provider lanes proportionate that however many bills they have. And so you basically how we divide that is, we first get the attorneys fees and expenses. And then you the providers are entitled to 50% of that. And then we divvied up based on providers bills. Well, it knows sounds complicated, because it can be so I created a spreadsheet and I kid this is something I could easily put out there for people. And I just have it. So now I’m going to do that now. It’s easy because he does from an Excel spreadsheet, I can tell just by the table with everything. And you can just all you have to do is I bet there was a theme that he could use is that a widget? What’s the other one that use WordPress, what’s the name of it? I can’t think of it. But he could do that. And I bet he just uploaded his spreadsheet, and it made a lot of stuff for him, which was a really easy way of doing things. This is a real, I think is a really, really helpful website.
Jim Hacking
I’m gonna give thumbs up to old Frehley and Frehley, I can see why they’ve gotten the five reviews. And he’s taking the time to get his clients to give him a shout out on the web. And so I think I like this website a lot. Listen,
Tyson Mutrux
yeah, you were all judgmental this guy, and it’s a pretty good website. Good. Yeah, I will. Alright, let’s do your hack of the week. All right, for
Jim Hacking
my hack of the week, I’m going to use something that I’m using very frequently these days. In fact, I’m using it right now. And that is from Google Hangouts, you can make a call. And I’ve really gotten used to making my calls over the internet. Obviously, we use VoIP here in the office. But just in general, Google’s letting me record this very phone call through or make this very phone call through their Google Hangout phone app. So I highly recommend it. I use it a lot.
Tyson Mutrux
Interesting. I had no idea that you were on Google Voice. That’s That’s good. The thing there may be this perception, at least I had have a perception that’s kind of poor quality and things like that. But that sounds like it’s not so cool. Shout to Google. Alright. Well, I am for my tip of the week, I’m going to talk about the book, tribes. I tried to talk about this in one episode that we had to scrap because the audio was bad. But tribes is a really good book. And it’s really, it’s Seth Godin. He talks about people are really looking for a leader, and there’s plenty of opportunities for you to step up and lead. And there’s people like that or listeners like Joe Vitale, he’s created a community of Etsy store owners and he’s doing a really good job of that. I don’t know if he’s read that book. But there’s a really good way of building these communities and these communities will then be feeders for you in different areas of your life, whether it’s to get clients or whatever it might be, but there are that’s not the purpose of the purpose of it is just to have this community and actually being a part of something and seeing something grow. So you can there are maybe parts of your, for example UGM You’ve got this whole President Trump thing where there’s a lot of immigration that is being stopped. And so you, you’ve done a really good job of building this community, you’re asked to speak today, people are following you. And the thing is, we just had to step out there and lead. And you’re doing that. And so people have to realize that, all you have to do is just put your neck out there, and people will follow the shadow, ie I do the first steps. So that’s my book. So the traps
Jim Hacking
Yeah, I’m not one for hyperbole, but it is an honest statement for me to say that I don’t think there would be a hacking law practice, if I hadn’t read tribes. It was the very, very, very first book that I ever read, that opened my eyes to all of the kinds of things that we talked about. And it had a deep effect on me, I’ve read it twice. It’s a very short book. But the main point in there that I really got out of it, that really sort of freed me up was the idea that you can’t make everybody happy. And then if you want to lead a tribe, you have to be willing to have people that don’t like you and have people that don’t want to be in your club, and that makes the people that are in your club. love you that much more. So it’s a great little book. I think every attorney needs to build a tribe and needs to be willing to say, who their tribe is for and who their tribe is not for. So, as always uncle Seth, bringing in 100%. So it’s a great book. Cool, man.
