Are you an attorney who is interested in joining a supportive group of fellow attorneys? In this podcast episode, Jim and Tyson explore the impact of their mastermind group for lawyers.
This week on the show we have Christina Lael, a licensed CPA and tax attorney who helps attorneys, partners and firms save an average of $52,750 on income tax each year. Christina is 1 of only 60 people in America certified by the American Institute of Certified Tax Planners.
12:10 Independent contractors vs employees
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Take the PPP forgiveness application to your bank to see if you can get your help and make sure it’s correct.
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Run your law firm the right way.
This is The Maximum Lawyer Podcast.
Your hosts, Jim Hacking and Tyson Mutrux.
Let's partner up and maximize your firm.
Welcome to the show.
Jim: Welcome back to the maximum lawyer podcast. I'm Jim Hacking.
Tyson: And I'm Tyson Mutrux.
What's up, Jimmy?
Jim: Tyson, we've had some technical difficulties today. It's sort of the theme of Maximum Lawyer, lately. We've been having lots of online problems, Zoom problems, pushing problems, but we are soldiering through.
Tyson: That’s right. At least, we've been able to push it to Facebook today, so that's good. That's a nice step forward.
Jim: How you been?
Tyson: Good. Good. Got a lot done yesterday, was productive. I've had a couple productive weeks, so I'm doing well.
How about you?
Jim: You are Mr. Productive Monday, man. Last week, you had all your tasks done on Monday for the whole week.
Tyson: Man, it's just-- It's a good time to get things done. We don't have court. I have like virtual court but that's easy. I'm on for like 15 minutes and I don't have to drive anywhere. I've got all this extra time. It's great.
Jim: Well, Dean Jackson talks about how everyone's going to get used to this and like it much more than trying to figure out ways to keep aspects of this life we're living going with the parts that we like, so that's great.
Tyson: Yeah, it's not going to happen in Missouri. I can already tell that they're trying to drag us back in there. I'd love for that to be the case, but it's not going to happen. I think there are certain parts, like Maximum Lawyer’s like they're all like advanced but like the courts, in general, are not. And what’s crazy is Missouri is way ahead of most states, I'd say. They've had e-filing for over a decade. It's really good e-filing. It's far superior than the federal court system, but it's just-- they're trying to drag us back in. I can tell.
Jim: Well, do you want to go ahead and introduce our guest?
So, we have from Lael Tax, Christina Lael.
Now, something I don't know is, are you a tax accountant? Are you a tax lawyer?
Christina, tell us about yourself.
Christina: Sure. Yes.
Thank you so much for having me today.
Talking about technical difficulties, my website is down right now. So, it must be that you guys are--
Tyson: It’s in the air.
Jim: Bad bug.
Christina: --infecting my technology because it's never been down but that's okay.
Yeah, I'm an attorney and a CPA. So, I am a tax attorney and specialize in helping other attorneys and law firms, specifically. I can always help others as well, but I focus on attorneys and law firms save money in taxes.
Jim: The only other person I know that was a CPA and a lawyer was Steve Stinger. He was our account executive and he went to prison. So, hopefully, you'll be able to keep us all out of prison.
Christina: That’s right.
Jim: What is it like having lawyers as a client?
Christina: You know, actually, for the most part, it's very nice. Actually, I like working with lawyers because most of them like it down to the point. And, you know, there's no like wasting time and small talk. So, we just want to get right to the point. That's how I work. I've had a couple that have not been the nicest but, for the most part, they've been great.
Tyson: There are some certain things I want to get into like reducing tax liability and PPP stuff, but I'm not going to get into that yet.
So, talk about some of the biggest, I guess, issues that lawyers run into when it comes to running their firms.
Christina: So, from a tax perspective, there's so many things that I can do to help attorneys. And it's just like attorneys with their own clients. Like for a personal injury attorney, they wouldn't want their client to try to try a case themselves, or to just sign a settlement form that the insurance company immediately gives to them, if they were in involved in a wreck.
So, this is what I specialize in. And what I do is, I look at the whole - and not just the firm, but also the individual and how they get paid because they may be-- and I have a whole range. So, I have solo practitioners and they're 100%, owner of the firm. I have attorneys that they receive a K1 from a national law firm. And so, throughout the whole gamut.
So, if they are a partner or if they own their own law firm, of course, I look at that and look at their law firm. But, either way, I look at their personal situation. And first of all, I present to them, why they're paying what they're paying in taxes and to really show them why how they're getting paid, or how the current structure is, is affecting their tax liability and their finances and really point out key factors and how it flows through the tax return, and why it's so important, and why they are paying currently so much in taxes. Because most of my clients, before they come to me, they're paying a lot in taxes. And they really like it when I show them and do a really thorough presentation and analysis of their situation.
And then, we go into the strategies and how we can reduce those taxes. It completely depends on the person and the situation. It's different for just about every person. So, what I do is, I put together a strategic tax plan for them to analyze their specific situation and then the strategies that we can implement for them. And they love that. I mean, I've had comments like, “No one-- even with people that have worked with CPAs and accounting firms for years or have been even making a lot of money for years, and I've heard the comment like, “No one has ever taken the time to do this for me and to show me why I'm paying this amount of money in taxes and then the options that I have to reduce it” because there are lots of options, especially for people and attorneys netting $300,000 or above. There's lots of options in the Tax Code that they can take advantage of.
Jim: Christina, last week somebody posted in our group, the Maximum Lawyer group, about what advice would they give to people who are starting a law firm, from a tax perspective. I mean, my advice was to get an accountant on board right away to set up your accounts properly. But talk to us a little bit about how people get off to a bad start when they're starting their firm.
Christina: That's great advice right there, the books, because we also help attorneys with their books and their accounting as well. Well, our clients that we help with, in that area, have not-- they have not gotten or not hired a competent accountant or CPA, at the beginning, and their books, their IOLTA account, their advanced client cost accounting are just a mess - just an absolute mess.
In fact, we just brought on a new client, just last month, and my CPA on my team that specializes in this, she had to go back. It was such a mess, she had to go back to February and basically just undo everything that their accountant had done. I mean, you don't want to just get an accountant but you want to get a good one that understands the legal industry.
Another client that I recently acquired, similar situation. They had an accountant. They’re using Juris and that account, we went back at the records, and their advanced client costs-- they're in the personal injury law and it was completely done incorrectly. So, there's not even like going back. We're just going to have to just start forward and start doing it right because it was just such a mess, and it had been for years.
So, that is a great-- and I know that it's probably scary for people but to make sure you get a good referral from another attorney that has had a good experience with their accountant because there are-- and again, we've seen it, because that's our client base, is that people have not had good accountants that knew the industry, that knew the legal industry and how to account for those types of things, so that.
And then, also, consulting with an accountant - and even an attorney, someone like me. And I get those calls a lot as well of people just starting out. And I can give them some advice on how you want to start out. But it's not going to stay the same, you know, maybe your entity structure or how you set up your firm. So, at the beginning, it may be one way, but then, as you make more money, you'll want to change it at some point or restructure it so that you're paying less in taxes. But the balance is, you don't want to set up all maybe some somewhat complicated things that would cost a lot of money when you're not making enough money to really spend that kind of money in like a full-blown analysis, if that makes sense.
Tyson: So Christina, we're actually streaming live into our Guild right now and we’ve got a lot of questions. One of them is about tax strategy when it comes to reducing tax liability. Mark Lopez was talking about, specifically for people that are over 300,000. So, what tips for reducing tax liability?
Christina: Oh, wow. So great question.
Schedule an appointment with me [laughs]. There are so many different things that you can do and it really depends, again, on the situation.
I've got a book coming out with some other tax professionals and certified tax planners - a group that I'm a part of. In my chapter, in the book, I talk about like just-- and again, this is a very simple thing, just a very simple strategy. An item but it can make a big difference. Like, if you use a home office, actually, there's different ways you can do it. And it makes a big difference in what you can pay in taxes. Actually, there's a way to use your home for a tax strategy and your home office and most accountants don't know that. They don't set it up correctly. They don't have the substantiation, the contracts - you know, the documents that we like to substantiate all that. So, that's just that's just one strategy. A very simple one.
Another strategy, of course, is I always look at the entity - how is it structured, because those-- it depends on your situation - how much you're making, how many partners. Is it kind of a you-eat-what-you-kill type of firm, where you get paid based upon the kind of business you bring in, or is it just everyone owns a third? That makes a big difference. And that determines what kind of entity that you can choose.
How much are you paying yourself? How are you paying yourself? There's usually different ways you can pay yourself. Now, for some people, there isn't a different way to pay themselves. Maybe they work for a large national firm and we can't change that, which is fine. There's other strategies for that. Those are the types of things, again, that I look at.
Another thing that I look at is, when they become a client of mine, they fill out a personal expense sheet so I kind of get just an overview and an estimate of what they're spending personally.
And, of course, their family situation. How many children do they have? How old are they? What are their plans? Are they paying for school? Are they going to pay for school and for college? There's ways we can use that and make it deductible, when set up correctly.
So, it's all about-- you know, like I tell my clients, it's knowing how to file a motion for summary judgment - knowing the law, knowing the documents as-needed to justify and to set into place these strategies. So, those are a few.
Jim: Christina, one of the things that I see people struggling with and debating, in our group and outside our group, is the issue of independent contractors versus employees. What are sort of the general rules about that as far as when you're supposed to treat someone as an employee or when you can treat them as a contract attorney?
Christina: Oh, yeah. Oh, that's a great question.
The IRS would really prefer you pay people as employees. So, if there's a doubt and you don't really know, you want to pay them as employees because are IRS likes that, because they know that they're going to get their money, their taxes, and their payroll taxes.
However, most business owners, as you know, would rather pay people as contract employees because then they don't have to pay the taxes. And the person who's working for them - the contract employee has to pay all the taxes.
Sometimes, if they don't do anything else, they pay more in taxes, although there's tax strategies for them as well. So that the contractor could actually pay less in taxes. That's actually very easy to do.
But to substantiate and to differentiate between a W2 employee and a contract employee, if you have control-- and again, there's so many factors to this and you have to look at the whole situation. But if you control that employee or contract with the person working for you, if they use your tools, if you tell them how they need to do their job, if you tell them when they have to do their job, when you provide all the tools for them, that's clearly an employee.
To be a contractor, they you tend to provide their own tools, their own computer. sometimes, their own software. It's not like you can't provide them anything. It's just what is overall the picture look? Can they work their own hours? Can they decide how they want to work, how they want to do different projects. So, it's all about control versus flexibility of them letting them do their job. So, that's it. That's the big difference. Again, it's not really a bright line rule.
Now, what you don't want to do-- and I've had a client like this, and we had to go back. They went through. In fact, I was in law school. This was one of my very first clients, when I was still in law school. Her dad was an attorney. He had practiced well into his 70’s. He had actually passed away by this point. Well, he had a secretary that he had been paying as a W2 employee for years - for years. Towards the end of his career, when he was kind of losing some of his facilities, he decided - all of a sudden, with her job not changing at all, to pay her as 1099. That is a big no-no. So, she was automatically audited. We had to go back through, and go through the audit, and go back and amend, and pay the penalties. This was after he passed away. So, it was a real mess.
So that's definitely something you don't want to do is to start out-- so, if you hear this and you have employees that are W2 and you go, “You know what, they can be contract workers. Let's just switch them over.” Do not do that. So, once you've established that they're a W2, it's going to be very, very difficult to establish them as a contract employee. And the IRS doesn't like it.
Now, the opposite. You can do that. You know, if you start as a contract employee and you pay them and they're very flexible, and you realize, “Hey, I want to bring them on payroll and pay them as a W2.” That's completely fine. Again, IRS likes for you to be able to pay people as a W2 and have them as employees.
And then, there are situations where you could pay them both, actually. But, again, you have to be very careful. And there can be some tax advantages around that. You can pay them as a W2, in one function. And if they have another function in your business and you're paying them for something else, you can also pay them as a 1099. But, again, you want to be very careful how you do that. And my advice would be, if you're going to do that, make sure that you're paying them individually as a W2 and have them set up like their own entity, even just a simple LLC, and then pay their entity as a contract employee, so it's not going to the same Tax Identification Number.
Tyson: Tina, we have another question from the group. And then, I'll have a follow-up question to this.
Tyson: The question is, with regard to employees and contractors, do they do these rules in play equally to both secretaries and attorneys?
Christina: Oh, yeah.
Yeah, it doesn't matter what your function is. They don't look at that. I mean, they look at your job description, but they don't look at what you're actually doing. They look at how much control do you have over that worker.
All right. So here here's my other question. That was just a clarifying question. I want to jump into PPP because PPP is a big thing right now.
Tyson: A lot of people want to know about it. And so, let’s start with forgiveness. I saw that the application came out yesterday, I think, and I read through it. It's interesting. I guess, what are some guidance you can give us on making sure that we have this loan forgiven?
Christina: Okay, great question. And thank you for that because we've helped several of our clients apply for that and we will be helping them also have this forgiven.
So, one thing I recommended, right up front, is to have your PPP loan that you received, put it in a whole separate account. And so, then, when you have your operating account and you pay out of that operating account - your wages, your utility, and your rent, then you transfer that exact amount of money from the account that holds the PPP loan until it runs out. That's actually the best way. It's not even too late. You can do that kind of midstream just to really separate it out.
Another thing that I would recommend is to set up sub-accounts in your accounting system called PPP Payroll or PPP utilities, so you know that when you use those accounts, in your accounting system, that that is going for the forgiveness part of the PPP loan. And you only have eight weeks to spend it.
Jim: And talk about that. So, I applied for PPP and I was late. In other words, my first bank dropped the ball. I had to switch banks. So, I did open up an account. So, all that money’s sitting in one account. The money came in about two weeks ago and it's just been sitting over there. I know this is a basic question. I can use it for payroll, for rent, and utilities. Can I do that until it runs out or is there a time where I have to use it all? That's one question. The other question is, can I prepay some of those things and use the PPP funds?
Christina: So far, now, there's not been any guidance about like prepaying or going back and maybe you hadn't paid anyone for a while. So, I say, yes. Yep. You know, I mean, the worst thing that could happen is that they go back and go, “Well, you can't prepay and that wasn't forgiven.” But, so far, we haven't heard anything like that. Again, the main purpose of the PPP loan is to use it for these specific expenses.
Now, what I wouldn't do is I would not pay yourself a $500,000-bonus--
Christina: --get a $500,000 loan and just pay yourself $500,000, when before you had a $20,000 salary. That I would not do.
But just, to be reasonable, what would a reasonable person do? If you can prepay some costs, do that, if you did have some payroll that you hadn't paid. Now, one thing that is pretty clear, and some clients have asked me this, like, they just got their PPP loan and then their payroll was about to run. They had to pay payroll like the next day or two and they said, “Well, can we use It for that?” because they really worked before I received the PPP loan. I'm like, “Yes. Yes, you can.” They're not that exact. You can pay.
Jim: Like we never stopped paying, like we didn't cut payroll. We've just been paying payroll all along. So can I use those past payments that we made before the PPP money came?
Christina: No. Well, no. You can't use the past payments. But, if they had worked before you got the PPP loan, see what I'm saying, and you were paying them for two weeks that they had worked. And then, you got the PPP loan, and you paid them for two prior weeks. You have to pay them - it's after you get the money in your bank account. So that's what they're looking at with the timing.
Jim: And is there an end date to that or can I keep using it up until it's all gone?
Christina: Well, you have eight weeks to get it forgiven. And then, anything left over, you just have a year-- you'll have a year to pay that back at a 1% interest. And then, that could be pretty much used for any regular business expense.
So, there's two parts of it - the forgiveness part of it which-- and that's the thing too. And this may be a follow-up question someone’s about to ask but, usually, when you have a loan that's forgiven, you pay taxes on it. In this case, that is not true. You do not have to pay taxes on that forgiveness. However, and this just--
There were some guidance on this, because we weren't sure at first, but you also can't take it as a deduction. So, if you're going to get-- so before, you paid money and you paid someone - you paid in payroll $10,000. That would’ve been an expense and would’ve been deductible. Well, now you're going to pay $10,000 to payroll. That money is going to be forgiven. You cannot also deduct it as an expense.
Tyson: I read that, too. At the time people are listening to this, things may have changed because I know that some senators are proposing changing that part of it. But-- yeah, I read the same thing that you did, Christina, about the IRS guidance that you cannot take this deduction. So, if someone's listening to this now and that's changed that’s because, as of right now, that's what it is.
Another question I have is, so my payroll processor does not let me separate State, and local taxes, and federal taxes. It's my understanding that the federal taxes cannot be forgiven though, right? So, I need to reimburse my PPP account for that. Is that right?
Christina: Right. Correct. Yep.
Tyson: I mean, that's my question.
Christina: Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
So reimbursement in State - local you can, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Tyson: Okay. And I just want to make sure we could clarify that for people because I [inaudible 00:22:29] now just need to write my other account another check, so.
And then, you also said you'd give us a little bit of information before the podcast. I thought it was too late to apply for PPP. Can you still apply for PPP?
Christina: If there's still money.
We applied. The last one that we applied for was-- gosh, two weeks ago. Actually, there's one more recent and they haven't got the money. He actually just got the money.
So, if you can find a bank that will let you apply. I know, for us, at one point we were using PayPal even when there was such a scramble to find a bank - US Bank. The last time I checked, they were taking applications even if you weren't a client, so that's good.
There was another one we used. I can't think of it.
But yeah, if you can find someone that will take it. I mean, you’ve got till-- what is it? June, I think, is the official cutoff date. But if the banks don't have money, then it doesn't matter what the cutoff date is.
Jim: Christina, stepping away from PPP for a bit, what are some other mistakes that you see law firm owners make in dealing with their taxes?
Christina: You know, really assuming and it's kind of sad the way most-- not all, but most accounting firms and CPAs are set up and that they are doing tax planning with them because most CPAs and accounting firms in America, now, the way that they're set up, they try to help everyone which is difficult because they're not focused on a certain industry. A lot of clients-- and again, this is what I see, because this is how-- this is why I have so many clients. The people that are coming to me, their CPA or accounting firm doesn't really understand their industry and they don't do any tax planning. They just get their numbers. They tend to get their numbers at the end of the year and plug them in to their tax software which is really easy to do. And they make a lot of money doing it. A lot of accounting firms just plug those numbers in. That tax software spits out a tax return that the IRS is more than happy to accept because they'll never tell you you’ve paid too much in taxes. So, most accounting firms and CPAs, they just don't have the time, or the resources, or really the passion to really dig deep with their clients to do tax planning. And they don't know, again, the tax law and the rules and everything that needs to be set up for these strategies.
So, a lot of people that I talked to think-- in fact, one client that I just brought on board and I was able to save him quite a bit of taxes. He was just getting paid as a K-1. I did run into him in the elevator. He works at a very, very large law firm. I think the tax firm’s accountant, right. And I told him, “Hey, this what I'm paying in taxes. What do you think?” He's like, “Yep, I think that's all you can do.” And then, he didn't even look at his tax return.
So, a lot of times, people just think that, “Oh, this is all that they can do.” And they can't really save money in taxes, or they think it's going to trigger an audit, or they think it's some crazy scheme. It's not.
It's, again, just what my clients do with their own clients. They use their knowledge, their experience of practicing in their field of expertise - personal injury law, employment law, intellectual property. And because of their years of experience and knowledge, they can use the Code - the law to apply to their client situation.
So I just hear that a lot. So many people, when I bring them on board, say, “This is what I've been looking for” or “I've never seen it this presented so well and organized.” So, there are people out there that do. There are a few of us - very few. But there are some that actually do focus on tax planning, and then focus on a specific industry, and then make sure they're paying their fair share of taxes instead of their sometimes grossly unfair because they're paying way more than they need to. And the IRS will not tell them that. I guarantee you.
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Tyson: So, let's change gears a little bit, because we've got COVID going on right now and so--
Tyson: --how COVID-19 and everything that's going on right now, how is that going to affect or change our tax liabilities for 2020?
Christina: Oh, good question.
Well, they did do a little bit of adjustments, like you could take a charitable contribution of $300, if you don't itemize.
But, I really believe, with all this money that we have just been bleeding in this country, that tax rates are going to go up and that people are going to be-- especially, the middle class are going to be paying more money in taxes, except for my clients.
But no, I really see that the tax rates-- I mean, we've got to do something. We could barely sustain it before. And so then, with all this, the way we've just been bleeding money, I mean, someone's got to pay for all this.
Jim: All right. Cool.
So, tell us a little bit about your firm and your setup. We’ve spent a lot of time talking about taxes, but we really didn't talk about you as a law firm owner. Talk to us about your setup with your firm, and who you have working for you, and what your team looks like.
Christina: Oh, yeah. Sure.
I'm with Lael Tax LLC. I'm the founder and owner. I started out. I got my CPA first, passed the test the first time - all four parts, could not believe it, years ago. Several of my teachers were also attorneys and encouraged me to go into law school and become-- and that's a great combination, having your CPA license and being an attorney. And it is. It is very nice.
So, I went on to law school and started helping my classmates do their tax returns and was able to study under the tutelage of some amazing tax attorneys in Nashville, Tennessee which is where I'm from. You can't tell by my accent.
So, I have my CPA license and law license in Tennessee. And then, we also have a place in Fort Myers, Florida, which we bought three years ago, we absolutely love. That's where I am right now.
And I have my CPA license in Florida. I used to work for a Fortune 500 company, Caterpillar Financial, in their tax department. So when I left, I brought this amazing CPA with me. Her name is Jennifer Lawrence. She's not the actress, but I do give her an Academy Award every day because she is amazing. She's the one that has helped-- like I said, we've had a couple of-- or gosh, three now, three clients that we brought on board that their books have just been a mess. And that they've even had other accountants try to reconcile and couldn't do it. So, she's my CPA, basically, firm manager.
We have clients all over the United States. So, all of my people work from home. Jennifer’s still in Tennessee. We're growing quickly, so I've been hiring new people and they've been amazing. We have a senior tax accountant out of California. He's also an enrolled agent and has lots of experience with tax, and tax preparation, and planning, and research. A lady, another senior tax accountant, from Massachusetts. She also has a place in Cape Coral. And we have a business development manager that keeps us all very busy. He's in Tampa, so not too far away from me. And an IT specialist that we hired on, part-time, just to help us with all our IT things. Actually, I'm looking for some someone else. Once again, we're growing so quickly. But yeah, that's it.
We all we all work from home. We all love what we do. We have a good time and we love how helping our clients. It's a real family kind of atmosphere. We take great pride in making sure our clients are happy, and successful, and saving money in taxes.
Tyson: Very good stuff.
All right. We do need to wrap things up. Before I do, I want to let everybody know that Christina does have the Lael Tax mobile app. You might want to check that out. You might even be able to get some good ideas from it. She also has Strategic Tax Plans for Attorneys. And she's also written a book in Thinking Outside the Tax Box. So, check those out. Check her out as well, if you want to get in touch with her and ask your questions.
I also want to encourage everyone to go to the Facebook group, get involved there. And if you don't mind taking just a couple seconds and giving us a five-star review, we would greatly appreciate it.
Jimmy, what is your hack of the week?
Jim: I've really been enjoying my headset, my Bose headsets. When I try to concentrate, when I'm working, I have been listening to the same song over and over. But I came across this app that I've heard about before, and I've actually tried before, called brain.fm. It plays sort of this music that's supposed to stimulate your brain. I don't know if it does or not, but it does help me. It seems like it might help me concentrate. So, brain.fm. I think you get the first five hours free. It's pretty cool. So, check it out.
Tyson: Nicely done. Very good.
All right. Christina, so I don't know if you were told this, but we always ask our guest to give us a tip or a hack. It could be a book. It could be a podcast. It could be anything. So, do you have a tip or a hack for us?
Christina: Actually, we just-- well, started using this Liscio app. That's fantastic. I recommend it for any accounting firm, or even people, if you want to use it for your own clients. Everything is secure within the app. You get out of email. You can use on your computer, use it on your phone - all communication, all files, even signing documents. You can launch a Zoom video. You can set up tasks. You request information from your clients. We were already getting some of our clients on there, and we're having our big rollout next week. I just love it. LISCIO L-I-S-C-I-O. Eventually, they're going to have billing through that too with QuickBooks and it will sync with your QuickBooks account, so it's fantastic.
Tyson: Very good stuff.
Jim, Mark Lopez says that he's been using brain.fm for one and a half years. He says, “It’s awesome.” It sounds like you might be onto something. I'm going to have to check it out now that Mark gave me the recommendation, not that Jim gave me the recommendation.
All right. So, here is my tip of the week. The PPP forgiveness application just came out. My tip is to take that to your bank and maybe even get some guidance from your accountant on filling this out and making sure it's filled out correctly. You don't want to be waiting till the last minute to get it filled out. I've even been emailing my bank, back and forth, before I make certain transactions just to make sure that they're okay with it because, from what I've read, they play like the number one factor on whether or not our loans are forgiven. So, I'm making sure everything's documented, so they can't back come back later and say, “Well, no, you weren't allowed to do that.”
So, my tip is to make sure. Take that document to them. Even, maybe email back and forth with them just to get some documentation, to make sure that's being filled out correctly. That's my tip of the week.
Christina, thank you so much for coming on. I've gotten a lot of lot of good information from you, so thank you so much. Hopefully, other people have gotten as much out of this as I have.
Christina: Thank you. It's been fun.
Jim: Thanks, guys.
Thanks for listening to The Maximum Lawyer Podcast.
To stay in contact with your hosts and to access more content, go to maximumlawyer.com.
Have a great week and catch you next time.
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