"Using Your Personality to Profit" w/ Ashley Kirkwood 258

In today’s podcast episode Jim and Tyson discuss leaving a big law salary of 300k to go out on your own starting at zero with Ashley Kirkwood.

After graduating top of her class at Northwestern Law and going to trial around the country for Fortune 100 corporations, Ashley left her mid-six-figure salary to be a full-time entrepreneur. Now, Ashley runs both a law firm and a speaking business. Ashley has earned the nickname of “the lit lawyer” due to her fun DIY legal trainings such as Get The Tea On Trademarks and Clapback With Contracts. Through her law firm, Mobile General Counsel, she helps entrepreneurs with critical elements of their business such as trademarks and contracts.

Watch the video here.

4:05 98% of clients from social media
4:50 going out on your own
8:00 walking out on $300k to zero clients
9:11 showing up for six months
10:21 too much work to get clients
11:00 where does initial business come from
21:20 infusing your personality in your marketing
23:20 speaking as a business
26:00 podcasting for lawyers

Jim’s Hack: Mindfulness in the morning - not hopping on social media right away.

Ashley’s Tip: Have automated systems before the consult! Tune in to hear about Ashley’s personal system 30:28.

Tyson’s Tip: App: Reclaim - allows you to control your calendar more. It gives you tips on things to add to your calendar.

TOMORROW is the last day to join the Guild at our lowest member price!

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Run your law firm the right way.

This is The Maximum Lawyer Podcast.

Your hosts, Jim Hacking and Tyson Mutrux.

Let's partner up and maximize your firm.

Welcome to the show.

Jim: Welcome back to The Maximum Lawyer Podcast. I'm Jim Hacking.

Tyson: And I'm Tyson Mutrux. What's up, Jimmy?

Jim: Oh, Tyson. Your mic doesn't sound so good. I think it's because you're traveling, but I know that you're driving back to Columbia after another long day of depositions. I'm excited about our guest today.

Tyson: I'm excited about our guest today, too. There's a lot going on. I can't wait to unpack all of it.

Jim: All right. Well, let me welcome her to the show. Her name is Ashley Kirkwood. She is a lawyer, and an entrepreneur, and a coach, and a public speaker. She's had a TED talk. Her website is amazing.

We're really excited to have you on the show, Ashley. Thanks for being here.

Ashley: Thank you so much for having me. Excited to chat with you guys.

Tyson: So, Ashley, tell us a little bit about your background. I mean, we were on your website looking at it. You've got a lot. You do a lot of different stuff. So, before we get to all that, tell us about your background and how you got to where you are now.

Ashley: Yeah, definitely. You know, I went to-- I'm double Big Ten, went to the University of Illinois and majored in International Business. Then, graduated from Northwestern Law School and kind of had a traditional path after law school. I went to Kirkland & Ellis and worked there. Started my career there as a trial lawyer, in the Chicago office. Tried three federal cases, two of which were jury trials. Chaired one of those trials. It was a civil rights trial. And the other trials were for large insurance companies.

I loved the adrenaline that came with being a trial lawyer. Didn't love the hours and kind of the up and down nature of the work that I did. I like to say that I worked for like four months straight without sleep much. And then I would just be off for two weeks and just do it again. And, you know, I was somewhat of a junior associate while I was there as well. So, it was just very, very cumbersome.

So, after working at Kirkland for a while, went on to a firm called McDermott Will & Emery and was in their employment practice, still litigation leaning but a lot more counseling of smaller clients that didn't have their own general counsel. Unlike at a firm like a Kirkland, it's such a big firm that like I had a secretary. I had a paralegal. My paralegal had a secretary and another secretary under her. It was just all the cases were stacked very heavy and I had an unimaginable amount of support. I absolutely love practicing there.

My experience at McDermott was a little bit different. They practice a lot leaner which was good for me as a young associate in that I was able to really get some experience. But what I realized was, I felt as though that was how I would practice if I was on my own, like I wouldn't necessarily have the same level of support. I'd be working with clients who were a bit smaller, who didn't necessarily have their own general counsel, who needed that level of expertise. And it was there that I really got the idea for Mobile General Counsel which is the firm that I have now, wherein we work with clients predominantly who don't have their own in-house counsel. And we serve like their outside general counsel. And many of our larger clients or the clients that are doing, you know, in that seven-figure mark financially or upper six-figure mark financially have us on as their counsel month-to- month. So, they're in our bulletproof business collective legal subscription. They pay a monthly subscription, either $5000, $10,000, or 15,000 a month and we support them on the legal side.

But because I have a background as an employment lawyer, the other side of my practice is really in training and development of companies to make them communicate better and helping them with DEI communication and gender and harassment communication - not on the litigation side but from a consulting standpoint, an advising standpoint, and developing out these long-term training programs for our larger clients.

So, that's how I'm still able to kind of support and help my Fortune 500 clients. But my legal practice is really focused on those emerging businesses and/or companies who have large trademark portfolios and need us to manage those. So that's kind of how the legal side of things worked out, the legal and speaking side.

But, you know, I'm pretty active on social media. Our first year of business, I think, 98% of all of our clients came directly from social media while we were building that practice. Now, we get quite a bit of referral work. But because I'm so active on social, and people saw what I was doing with clients, and saw me traveling, and speaking, and doing all of that, they started to ask, you know, “How can I do that as well? I'm a lawyer and I would love to like, get paid 10-grand to do a speaking engagement. How does that work? How do I license out my speeches?” And so, I started a podcast and a platform called Speak Your Way to Cash where I teach lawyers, other professionals, entrepreneurs, and experts how to get paid from speaking and how to also license out those programs to companies for residual corporate revenue.

Jim: All right. Well, we want to get to all of that stuff but, before we do, I want to backtrack a little bit. I want to talk about those 30 days before you went out on your own, when you left your second firm, and then the 30 days after you went out on your own. What was that mindset that you were having to say, “I want to go out on my own”? And then, what was it like once reality kicked in?

Ashley: Yeah. So, the 30 days before, even though I had this idea like, “Oh, Mobile General Counsel. That seems cool.” I have always been of the mind that I was going -- like, I rearranged my entire life to get into big law. So, when I was in law school, I started at John Marshall Law School which isn’t a highly ranked law school in Chicago, transferred to Northwestern. So, it was like this whole process.

And I literally only transferred to get a shot at that big law associate life. That was, for me, my goal. Big law partnership, traditional. Like I really wasn't thinking of having my own firm. 

But when I worked at a firm with a little bit less support, the 30 days before looked like me working a ton of hours, me not being particularly thrilled about it, me feeling like, “Man, I probably could do something different here” and I don't know what different looks like. And at that time, 30 days before, I probably thought different just looked like going to another firm, where I was at a shop that was a little bit more similar to my first shop with probably a little bit lighter of a workload.

But, in the end, I think I decided to go out on my own after leaving that firm, looking at the other options on the market, and then deciding like, “No. I need to do this myself.” So, it was not nearly as calculated or beautiful as some people may think. It was really just like, “Okay, I'm leaving this job because I'm not happy.” I am looking for another firm and then just realizing, “You know what? I don't think another firm is the option or the move. I think the move is for me to work for myself.”

And I talked to a mentor of mine who was at another big firm, I think, Winston, who I also liked. And he was an older gentleman. He had been a trial lawyer. Just someone I really, really respected. And he looked at me and was like, “You know what, Ashley, we love soldiers at [inaudible 00:06:47]. We are looking for associates who are leaders. We are looking for associates who are thinking about getting business their first two years”, because I was always at associate that was like, “So, if I talked to the GC and so and so and I bring them in, how much do I get? How much credit do I get for this?” And at my first firm, they were like, “We don't even give associates credit. And you are the first associate to ask us that question at the interview. So, I don't even know how that works.” And he looks at me and he's like, “You know, you're not a soldier, like you are a leader. People will follow you. And you need to figure out whether you're going to suppress all of that to be successful in a firm environment or whether you're going to capitalize on that and start your own thing because I think you'd be pretty successful at it.”

And it was his vote of confidence, or just him being honest with me and saying, like, “Yeah. You're a leader. You may think we like that, but we don't. Like what we really want--“ and he wasn't saying it as a shot at me. He was literally just saying the skill set that we value is that associates take orders, do what we tell them to do, and they do that until they can't do it anymore. They make partner. Maybe they get business, maybe they don't, but they take orders. That is the number one thing we want you to do. Whereas I was always a visionary.

And so, it was after that conversation with him. And a few others who said something similar to me that I was like, “You know what, I'm just going to do it. And I literally just do it. I walked out on that $300,000-salary to zero clients and zero potential income and built everything from the ground up.

Tyson: Well, Ashley, you configured your entire life around the big firm life. I'm assuming that's why you change law schools. You wanted to do the big firm life. And then, you go out and you make a drastic career change. Has there ever been a point where like, you're just like, so low and you're like, “This is a bad mistake.” Have you ever regretted that decision? Or has it always been, “Oh, my gosh, this was the right decision.

Ashley: I never regretted the decision. And I'll tell you, the thing is, because I was leaving-- and I don't recommend people do this. The way I did it was like totally-- I don't even know how my husband supported this, like looking back. Because at the time, you know, we had money in the bank. So, I guess I just didn't really know the financial implications of doing this. But looking back, now, I'm just like, “Why did I leave all that money without a plan? It doesn't make any sense.” But I never regretted it.

What happened was, I was so excited about the opportunity of being on my own, after I bought into it, that by the time I had time to slow down and really think about the financial implications of what I was doing, I started making money in my law firm. But there was a six-month ramp up period. And so, for the first six months of my law firm, I did not make any money. However, I showed up every day on social, pitched clients every day as though the money was coming in, like it was in the bank.

Thankfully, I had enough money in savings just from the money I was making, where I didn't feel the financial impact of that six months. And on the six months, so we made six figures of revenue in the last six months of the firm. So, we were hitting those numbers. You know, towards the last six months, it was okay. It wasn't Kirkland money, but it was okay. We were able to do over six figures of revenue, paid all of our people, keep all of our tech going. And we were virtual, so our expenses were really, really low.

But this year, when we changed our business model to accommodate a subscription model, it has really ballooned the firm, and our revenue, and our potential opportunities. But I didn't have time to regret it because I was out, like I was working, working. Like I was pitching clients. I was on social every day. I was speaking all over the country at events. Making money from speaking. And so, I didn't have time to regret it.

But I did realize, very early on, I was doing way too much work to get clients and it wasn't a sustainable model. So, I had to drastically change the business model to sustain. But I was working so hard that I really didn't even-- it didn't cross my mind to regret it. And I had so much more time to spend with my husband. And, you know, now we have a three-month-old daughter like it's just-- my life is so conducive to what I do now that I don't regret it a minute, like not a minute.

Now, if I wasn't getting clients, then I probably would’ve regretted it. But we were able to get clients. I’ve got to get that revenue rolling. And now the sky's the limit, because our new model really, really works well.

Jim: Definitely want to get to your new model. But before we get to that, I do want to know, like how did you pitch this to your existing clients or did you start over from scratch? And then, how did you start bringing in clients right away because that's what a lot of the guys and ladies in our group worry about is, where's that initial business going to come from? So, I'd like to spend a little bit more time just on this piece of it.

Ashley: Absolutely. So, I predominantly pitch trademark law. So, it was intellectual property, soft IP practice. And so, I was looking for businesses that didn't have a trademark that wanted one. And I used my uniqueness and my individuality to get those clients. So that looked like me showing up online and doing things like Get the Tea on Trademarks, an online class that teaches people how to self-file their own trademarks. Now, most people when they try to self-file, they realize how challenging it is, and how difficult it is, and how much you're potentially going to, you know, have problems doing it. But it's an easier sell a $300-course versus like a $3,000 plus, you know, legal fee.

So, we started out doing those classes. Showing up. Doing live videos every single day. And that's where all of our clients came from. I did not pitch any of my existing clients. And now that I have a level of success on my own, I'm now going back and pitching those clients on managing all their portfolios and, you know, pitching more - bigger clients that I used to work with. But my practice was fundamentally different from the law that I was doing in big law.

So, like my clients at Kirkland were large insurance companies. My clients now may be a mom and pop shop. It may be an online business owner who's doing really well but isn't at the level of a Fortune 100 or even 500 company. So, I didn't really have-- the two client bases are just so different. You know, I wouldn't pitch like an all-state via Instagram, but I can pitch, you know, mom and pop business owner via Instagram or invite them to a free webinar and get them to opt-in. 

And so, the other thing that I did that I think worked really well, which is partnering with all of the small business organizations in Illinois. I emailed all of them. Told them about what I was doing. Offered to speak to them. Offered to do trainings for them. I pitched large groups that had entrepreneurs and some of my ideal clients in them. I did webinars in those. I was on television in Chicago. I pitched the media myself, like I was pitching everyone every day and it was like, like literally just being aggressive about it.

However, wherever my clients were, I pitched them on that platform. And once they showed interest, I switched. So, if they're on Instagram, I'm pitching on Instagram, just starting a conversation. Once they show interest, we switch to email. Then, I get them on my email list. And then, I go from there. But just consistently serving every single day on whatever platform your clients are on. And that may be LinkedIn. It may be something else. It has been extraordinarily helpful for getting leads. And then, also, I have like a media strategy for pitching the media, getting in the press, getting news. That also help bring in business affirmatively.

Tyson: Well, Ashley, one of the hardest parts about what we do is learning the business of running the firm. So, like where did you pick that up? I mean, like it seems like it came almost naturally to you. So, like where did you learn it?

Ashley: That's a great question. So, before I left my job, I did something that was almost like foreshadowing, but I didn't know it was. I started a YouTube show called Passion, Purpose and Paychecks. Now, I think you have to look it up under the Ashley Nicole Show. But I self-funded this YouTube show and had like professional videographers, and photographers, and all that stuff. And I invited entrepreneurs who had left a very lucrative position to start a business. And I interviewed them about how they made their first like six figures, how much money they were keeping versus they were putting back into the business, how did they pay themselves. I really interviewed other entrepreneurs for a year before launching my own business about how they were able to do it and, specifically, how they were able to make money doing it in a variety of career fields. And so, when I launched my firm, those folks also became some of the first people that I told that I was a lawyer to help get me on my feet, but I asked them. My dad's also an entrepreneur.

And I was pretty big on social media and Instagram and all that stuff while working at the firm. I just didn't know why I was just posting nice pictures. I mean, now I'm monetizing all that but that was where I felt most comfortable and safe. And it didn't seem as, frankly, intimidating, as you know, doing the pitches that I was a part of at a large firm where you're like doing PowerPoint’s and going in and talking to VCs and all of that. I mean, now I'm comfortable with that. But then it just seemed so big to start off that way without having a track record of some little wins, and some success, and some clients that I could point to and say, “I have satisfied their needs on my own, as an independent attorney.”

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Tyson: Good job, Jimbo. Another great read, buddy.

Jim: Getting better at it.

All right, Ashley, I want to change it up a little bit. I saw a statistic the other day that, in America, only 5% of lawyers are African-American. And then I saw, underneath that, that only 2% of lawyers in America are African-American women. So, I'm wondering, as an African-American woman, what can the industry do to encourage greater participation by the African-American community in the legal field?

Ashley: Well, a part of that is-- one, I don't know. That's a loaded question so I'm not-- you know, it's been something that's been around for a while. But a part of it is just that the industry itself is just so inherently unwelcoming to the African-American community. And so, there are a ton of--

I speak to a ton of people still. I just did a presentation last year. And one of the students came up to me and she identifies as African-American or black. And she came up to me and said, “You're the first black woman lawyer I've met. And you're the first one I've met that seems like they really like what they're doing. They're having a lot of fun.” So, she was like, I've never seen a lawyer act like you, look like you, perform like you, talk like you - just being yourself.

And a part of the hard part about being a black woman lawyer, for me, was that I didn't necessarily always feel that my uniqueness was valued or that it was acceptable to be fully myself all the time. It takes so much confidence and courage to do that. But the more we feel comfortable being ourselves, like being totally ourselves, showing up exactly as we are, not feeling like we need to assimilate into any homogeneous culture, you're going to attract more people because it's authenticity that attracts.

Then, also, there's the fact that law school is crazy expensive. I have a ton of debt. It's so much money to go to law school, especially if you want to go to a Northwestern or one of the top law schools. Both my parents have a college degree. They're married. They do well. They don't do pay 500-grand out of pocket well, but they do well. And so, when you're in that middle class, or even upper middle class, you get no money for law school or for any other benefits, if we're being honest about that. So that can be a deterrent, too.

My husband works in the academic advising space and a lot of his students are just concerned about, one, how are you going to continue to perform under all the pressures that come with going to a university where there's not a lot of diversity? And then, two, how are you going to pay for education? 

But, at the end of the day, if the industry wanted to change it, they 100% could. It's not that hard. One year, while I was there, Kirkland decided to hire more black lawyers. They went out and probably hired, I think, like a hundred. Like it wasn’t hard. They have the money. You go hire the people. It's just it's not that deep of a problem. It's really a monetary one. And if you want more African-Americans in the legal industry, then give more scholarships to those students.

Tyson: Ashley, I'm going to ask you another loaded question but I think it's important because you're clearly comfortable in your skin and you're talking about, you know, being comfortable with it. I guess, once you became comfortable, I mean, do you feel like you now have a competitive advantage, I mean, with getting clients? I mean, I know it's a weird question, but do you do you feel like you can use that as sort of like a superpower now?

Ashley: Yeah, 100%. I think a lot of my clients are interested in that. They're like, “Oh, you're super cool.” Like, this is how you are. And I show them my baby. And I show them my husband. And I don't do calls Thursday and Friday. I have systems. And they're totally fine with that.

And even on the corporate side, in doing DEI trainings, communications trainings to companies, I flat out tell companies what I'm not. I'm like, “I'm not going to come in and teach you all these terms that you can then go and create a dictionary with because I don't think that that is what creates change within a culture. What I am going to come in and do is teach you how to have real empathy and to stop saying you have empathy, when in fact, you won't take the time to get to know the people that work in your company.” And I tell them, “I'm not the cheapest option. Can you find someone cheaper? Sure, they will not be me. And if that's not what you want, then that's not what you want.” 

And I don't sell on price. I sell on value. And you can only sell on value, I think, when you know not only what you can provide as a service, but what is uniquely you, because you can get a trademark filed by LegalZoom. You know, you could go there. It may or may not work out, but you could go there. You know, you can get a cheap training for your company but what will be the difference? And if what you like about me is me, then you have to come to me to get that.

Jim: You said something that I really liked and that is about infusing your marketing with your personality. You know, one of the things that we spend a lot of time with our listeners talking about is, don't be boring. Don't be just talking about this case that you just won, or this trademark you just got, or how many years of experience you have. And it sounds like right out of the box with Instagram and you were finding your clients where they were. I love that, too. Talk to our listeners a little bit about that mindset.

Ashley: Definitely. So, one of the things that I tell-- because I also train speakers as well. So, speakers, business owners and lawyers who are building up their practices. One of the things that I always say is, “You need to market in a way that you love.” I don't believe in building a business around your passion. I do believe in infusing your passion into marketing. 

So, I am a speaker. I love to speak. That's what I'm uniquely good at. And I'm getting better at that every day because that's what I work on. So, when I do presentations and even Facebook ads and everything else, I'm speaking on the ad because that's what I'm really, really good at. But if I were someone who was not great at speaking, but I could write, then I may do blogging, or guest writing for different articles, or guest writing for different large publications.

Now, if you're shy and you can speak but you don't like speaking in front of people, then maybe the podcast is the way to go. You don't have to stream it live. You can record it in your own sense. You can have it edited. So, you really do need to figure out what is it that you're good at and then infuse that into your marketing.

Because, for me, live stream worked because of the way that I like to present myself. But if I was very, very boring on live stream. And I did not like doing live stream. Then, I get out there and I didn't interact, I didn't engage, then, live stream would have just been horrible for my practice because they'd be like, “Look at this lawyer on here, boring us to death. I'm definitely not hiring her. I don't even understand what she's talking about.”

But you may know your stuff. You just may not be a performer. So, don't perform in your marketing. If you're a writer, write. If you're a performer, perform. If you can do podcasting, do that and have it edited. But really figure out what it is that you can do.

Tyson: So, how did you get into speaking? Maybe I missed that part. Like, what drew you to it, I guess? What drew you to speaking? And then what, I guess, solidified you in this position where you can now advise people on speaking?

Ashley: Yeah, definitely. So, the first six months of my practice, I made money through speaking. I wrote a book called The Law School Hustle which details how I went from a 2.1 GPA in undergrad to a near perfect GPA out of Northwestern Law School and transferred. And then, worked at Kirkland. Because a lot of students think, “I'm going to become a lawyer and make money” when, in fact, I think it's like less than 16% of all lawyers actually get those big law jobs. Law isn't the quickest way to make money. It is not the easiest profession to make money in. And so, I wrote the book really to help law students to develop a strategy and a plan to getting excellent grades regardless of their academic background.

So, when I left my first firm, what I did to make money was bulk sold that book to law schools across the country and colleges across the country and they paid me a speaking fee and a book fee. So, I was getting between $2500 on the low end to $7,000 on the higher end, to go and speak for 45 minutes at a college and university, plus travel. And that was how I was making my money. And so, a lot of people were asking, “How are you doing this?”

Now, I focus only on larger contracts with companies for speaking and licensing out my training programs to live on their learning management platform. And so, that's what we do now only because the way that I got those speaking engagements in the beginning was so time consuming and I do not have time to pitch 300 colleges a week and do all of that. It's just not feasible. So, we switched to focusing only on larger corporate licensing deals at the $45,000-plus range that are a lot. Maybe they take longer to land, but they're more lucrative and it's a more targeted marketing strategy.

And so, those are some of the strategies that I teach people, not just how to get the business, but how to craft the signature speech. So, I've done two TEDx Talks on the Currency Of Confidence which I have trademarked and the Love Method of Communication which is what I sell into to corporations for licensing. And those two programs were developed totally by me. And they've helped me to really grow that side of my business on the corporate side and the college side. We still have a few college clients hanging on.

And so, I teach speakers both sides of that, how to get in to play the corporate game, and how to play the college game, and what that looks like, and how to price it out and package it so that you're able to really sell it in and build a sustainable stream of income that way.

Jim: I don't know if you found us or we found you but I'm really glad you came on the show because this has just been great. It's so inspirational. So many of our members, I think, will get a lot out of it.

For my last question, I noticed in your-- well, obviously, you have your own podcast. And I noticed it looks like you spoke at Podcast Movement. And given that this is a podcast for lawyers, I'm wondering what advice you have for lawyers who are thinking-- we have a lot of lawyers who are thinking about starting a podcast. And I just think it's such a great medium. Can you talk a little bit about how podcasting has helped your practice grow?

Ashley: Definitely. So, one of the things that we started doing recently, and this is probably my third week doing this, running Facebook ads. And it has been a game changer, both for the podcast and everything else. And so, this is how ads play into podcasting. The podcast, I really did for myself. So, I really didn't care if anyone listened to it. I did the podcast so that I could interview all these people that I admire and look up to.

And so, for anyone listening, there's a book called Book Yourself Solid by Michael Port. Phenomenal, phenomenal book. He is fabulous. I interviewed him on the podcast. I did it so that I could interview people that I respect and who have a level of expertise and knowledge that I couldn't just say like, “Hey, Michael Port, let's go get coffee.” Like, he doesn't know me. But I could say, “Hey, be on this show. I'd love to talk to you and feature you to all of our listeners.”

And so, I started a podcast and a Facebook group that goes along with the podcast, both under Speak Your Way to Cash. And what it's done for my business, unintentionally, is it literally gotten people-- they have gone from listening to the podcast to showing up in person at my live events. And it's always amazing to me when that happens. And we recently had someone see a Facebook ad about the show, listened to the ad, purchased a ticket to the live event, and now they’re legal subscription client at 5k a month. I mean, it's just really next level what this can do. 

And what I don't think we recognize-- Yeah, it’s such a good book. I don't think we recognize that we have a binge culture. I have done over 100 live videos. I have over 60 podcast episodes now. So not too many but enough for people to binge.

And what I feel every time that I get a client on the call for a consult, even a corporate client, they always say the same thing. “Yeah, I've been listening to all your podcasts. I binged them all last night, or I've watched five of your videos and I sent it to my friend. And that's why I'm here as a client.”

When you have clients who, right after they book a consult-- we have a system where it sends them like a video of me talking so they can get a feel for me. Once they get on the phone with you, if they've listened to your podcast, or they've seen a video of you, they're already sold on you. So, it's a way easier sale. You don't have to do the hard sale. You're literally just solidifying if it's a good fit for both parties. And it's a lot easier to get those people bought in and believing that you're credible, especially in the online space. So, it's been amazing for building credibility and landing clients that have turned into revenue.

Tyson: I love it. This is great. This is good stuff.

Before I start to wrap things up, will you tell people how they can get in touch with you?

Ashley: Yeah, definitely. So, you can email me at [email protected]. And you can find me on Instagram @MobileGeneralCounsel or on my personal Instagram page @theashleynicoleshow.

Tyson: The Ashley Nicole Show. I like it.

All right. We do need to wrap things up. Before I do. I want to remind everyone to go to the Facebook group. We have a lot of great people in there sharing great information every single day. Also, please take just a couple of seconds, as we wrap up the show, to give us a five-star review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcast. I guess, it's not iTunes anymore. It's Apple Podcasts - on Apple Podcasts. And then the prices go up in September for The Guild, so make sure that you check us out at maximumlawyer.com.

Jimmy, what is your hack of the week?

Jim: So, you know, I just got back from San Diego. I was walking on the beach. I was swimming in the ocean with Noor. And I got back. And I had all this work to do. I jumped right back into it. I was running around like a crazy man. I was watching MSNBC. I was on Twitter. I was on Facebook. All this craziness. And I really got away from my morning routine. It's amazing how fast that can happen, especially with me.

So, today, I'm just thinking about the difference between mindlessness and mindfulness. So, mindfulness is something that I really need to focus on each morning because it just sets up my day so much better. Not hopping on social media, not just going through the routine of the day but actually stopping and taking a breath before I actually start the day. It just made a huge difference today and I plan to keep it up tomorrow, hopefully.

Tyson: You know, there's something about you today. You look refreshed for some reason. I don't know if it’s just because you got back into town or what it is. You’ve got the shirt unbuttoned there, absolutely looking good. You're looking good and relaxed.

All right, Ashley. So, we always ask our guests to give a tip or hack. Do you have a tip or a hack for us?

Ashley: Yeah, definitely. My tip would be to have automated systems before the consult. So, if you do a consultation, one of the things that's helped us a lot is having a paid consultation. But right after someone books the pay consultation and we use Acuity Scheduling. They automatically get an email that leads them to watching a video of me presenting on the topic of interest and it tells them some of our starting prices. So, if you're someone that does flat fee or retainer and you have a general range of starting prices, sending that information out before the consultation has been really helpful with setting expectations for the call, and it's increased our close rate.

Tyson: And increasing close rate means more money. So, that's a really good thing. That's nice.

So, mine is something, it's an app. I don't know if it's a phone app, but I know it's an app that works with my Google Calendar. And it's called Reclaim. It's really interesting because it allows you to control your calendar a little bit more. And anybody that knows or have seen my calendar, they know how insane my calendar is. 

And it really gives you tips on like things you should add to your calendar. It adds in automatic morning catch up time, afternoon catch up time. You can turn these things on and off if you don't like ‘em. It builds in decompression time after a Zoom meeting which [crosstalk]. Yeah, exactly. I've turned that off. But it is an interesting thing where like, it gives you like 15 minutes afterwards to sort of decompress and move on to the next thing.

It gives you tips like-- okay, I'm reading off the list right now. There's like exercise, writing, take a walk, weekly status, you know, catch up time, lunch, biz ops review. Like it gives you all these different tips on things you can build into your calendar. You click it and it will automatically find spots for you on the dashboard. Like I said, it shows how much free time you have that week, meeting time that week, shallow work meeting, service-level stuff, or deep work, or what percentage of your time because it's really cool. And I paid zero dollars for it which is even better. So, Reclaim, I recommend it.

Ashley, thank you so much for coming on. This has been fantastic. It's been a great episode. Thank you so much.

Ashley: Thank you.

Jim: Thanks, Ashley.

Thanks for listening to The Maximum Lawyer Podcast.

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Have a great week and catch you next time.