How Your Money Story Is Sabotaging Your Law Firm with Jayden Doye

Watch the YouTube version of this episode HERE

Are you a lawyer who is looking to become a firm owner in the future? In this episode of the Maximum Lawyer podcast, Tyson engages in a conversation with Jayden Doye, a CPA and business owner, who shares their journey from a financially constrained upbringing to establishing a successful firm. 

Transitioning from employee to business owner comes with a lot of hard work and lessons learned. Jayden speaks to the need for coaching when going from working for a firm to owning and operating a firm. Using a sales funnel, Jayden learned through coaching the importance of using social media, like Facebook to market to potential clients. Though coaching takes time and money in investments, it can turn you into a high valued attorney down the line.

Coaching has also helped Jayden change his thinking when transitioning to a business owner. One of the things he changed was the need to niche down to lawyers. It is important to try to understand early on what type of law you want to get into. From that point, you network and talk with lawyers in that space to understand how best to work in that space.

Listen in to learn more!

Episode Highlights:

• 02:0 Artificial ceilings on income
• 13:19 Common blind spots for law firms 
• 24:00 Mental Health and Work-Life Balance 
• 30:49 Profit First Mindset 
• 32:41 Becoming Debt-Free
• 36:31 Employee vs. Owner Mindset  

Connect with Jayden:

• Website 
• Instagram 

Resources:

• Join the Guild Membership
• Subscribe to the Maximum Lawyer YouTube Channel
• Follow us on Instagram
• Join the Facebook Group
• Follow the Facebook Page
• Follow us on LinkedIn

Transcripts: How Your Money Story Is Sabotaging Your Law Firm with Jayden Doye

Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Speaker 1 00:00:02 This is maximum lawyer with your host, Tyson Matrix.

Tyson Mutrux 00:00:11 Jaden, take me back to the earliest memory you have of realizing that money could transform your life. How did that realization shape the path you're on today?

Jayden Doye 00:00:19 Wow, that's a great question. Okay, so coincidentally, that coincides with my earliest memory in life. So my earliest memory was the first day of kindergarten, and my dad walked me to school. And I remember he had a cigarette in one hand and he was saying. And he dropped me off with the empty book bag. He said, listen here, if your teacher ask you for your school supplies, tell her I don't get paid till Friday, so she's just gonna have to wait till Friday. And I remember, okay, you know, being a kid. Okay. And then I get in the class, and the first day, you know, she's going down school supplies to make sure we have everything that we need for school, and everybody else has everything and I don't have what I need.

Jayden Doye 00:01:03 And so, of course, I raise my hand and I let her know. My dad said, you don't have to wait till Friday because he'll get paid till Friday.

Tyson Mutrux 00:01:10 Did what? You did what he said.

Jayden Doye 00:01:11 Right. And then people started laughing. And then that really had me thinking like. Something about this isn't right. Right. And that was the beginning of feeling a sense of lack. Like there was what I wanted in life. And I oftentimes got to know because we didn't have enough money or we were broke. That was the mentality that I was taught as a kid. And so in adulthood, I had to retrain my brain and get out of that lack mindset, especially as a business owner. It's one thing to think that way as a as an employee, but as a business owner, you have to change that mindset.

Tyson Mutrux 00:01:49 I had a very similar upbringing that we just didn't have money growing up, and it was a it was one of those things where I felt like it put these artificial ceilings on me, where I, I like I remember thinking like $30,000 a year.

Tyson Mutrux 00:02:02 Salary was like $1 million, you know, like, it just seemed like so much money to me. Do you feel like you had, like, these artificial ceilings growing up as well, where you had you had put these, like, mental limits on yourself?

Jayden Doye 00:02:15 Definitely. I remember being in high school and one time a teacher told us to do an assignment where we had to find a job and, like, find a job in the field that we wanted to be in and, you know, do like a write up on it. And I found an accounting job. It was a bookkeeper job, and it was around that $30,000 mark. And she was like a bookkeeper. That's it. You need to aim higher than that. And I'm looking at her like, what are you talking about? This is $30,000. This is a lot of money. Sure. And what she told me stuck with me. Like I still hear her voice to this day. She passed away, unfortunately, a few years after that, but I understood.

Jayden Doye 00:02:56 I definitely understand where she's coming from, and I put that same type of energy when I'm working with my clients.

Tyson Mutrux 00:03:06 What did you do to remove these limits? I do wonder, like, how do you. Because it's not easy getting past that. It's really not. I mean, so what? I guess. What in your career have you done to to to remove those? Or have you have there been other experiences in your career that that have helped you along the way, that maybe you got guidance from a mentor or something like that? So how were you able to remove those limits?

Jayden Doye 00:03:29 Yeah, I think removing the limits happened in phases. So as I was a child, I always knew the middle class life wasn't for me. Let's just be 100% honest. The living paycheck to paycheck, going to the grocery store and having a budget of only $100 to feed a family of five. None of that resonated with my spirit. I knew something with that just was not right. And then I'm a very logical person, right? So statistically, when you look at even crime, we're looking at crime happening in usually lower income areas.

Jayden Doye 00:04:02 Right. So that was that was step one. Then I realized where I grew up in Prince George's County, Maryland. And it's interesting because you have every income bracket. And in my zip code specifically, you had the middle class life, which was us living paycheck to paycheck, but living in a house with a front yard and a backyard. Then you have people who are living in mansions which I can walk to, which is maybe three people in a seven bedroom house, then maybe across the street from that, you have seven people living in a three bedroom apartment. Right? And it's it was so interesting to me, all of this being so close and not far, like really segregated. And as a child, I always thought what was so different from the people that live in mansions than the people that lived in the apartments, like, what did those people do differently in their lives that these people didn't do. And I and I remember when I would ask for things like, I remember asking for a Sega Genesis and it was $100 and my dad said, I don't have it.

Jayden Doye 00:05:05 And I'm just thinking in my head like, just go make more money. Like, you're a grown man, make more money. I don't understand, right? That was the phase in my in my childhood of breaking barriers. Then let's fast forward to me actually starting my business. I, I did coaching from day one. So a lot of people who shift from being an employee to an employer that don't do any type of coaching, they will take longer to see success. That is 100% fact. And so one of the things that I learned in coaching was to have a niche market and to be a professional, and that you can have $1 million firm. That was always the the notion that I was that I was bred to believe from day one. So my first client was a CFO client paid me $4,000 a month. Now after that, I'm not going to lie, I did have, you know, for a year and a half, I did have a lot of low value clients as I was trying to figure out what that niche market was for the first two years.

Jayden Doye 00:06:02 However, I knew even with that $4,000 a month client, I'm like, this is $4,000 a month, but this is taking 40 hours a week out of my time. I can't build a business working 40 hours a week on one client. Sure. And so then I just, you know, through trial and error, learned that I needed to I needed to diversify. I needed to hire. I needed to delegate in order to break through the limits that my peers have around me, because it's difficult in in the law space, you have a lot of these lawyers that are making tons of money in their first few years. In the CPA world, that's not a thing. CPAs are very undervaluing themselves oftentimes. And so I didn't have a lot of peers around me that that were doing the things to have a high value firm. But I knew that that's what I wanted.

Tyson Mutrux 00:06:51 Yeah. I want to ask you about the coaching, because the coaching is I'm very curious as to how you decided to to go with the coach right from the beginning, because that that's one of those things that you don't learn.

Tyson Mutrux 00:07:03 Typically when you are in a lower income bracket, that's like that's something that you learn when you're like in a higher bracket, like like your parents are like doctors or lawyers and they're like, hey, this is important. But so my dad was a mechanic, so it's like, my dad didn't know that stuff didn't pass that on to me. Luckily, I was introduced to enough great people in my career where I was like, you know, you need to get a coach. So I have a coach. I've had a coach for a while. So how was that introduced to you and how did you know so early? Because that is, that's that's sort of an advanced thing when you're just starting out.

Jayden Doye 00:07:39 Well, I actually got hooked on a funnel, a sales funnel, Facebook funnel.

Tyson Mutrux 00:07:44 So that was fantastic.

Jayden Doye 00:07:45 The classic free webinar, I'll show you how to do it. And then they do the sale at the end. Yeah. So I've done that myself. You know, it hasn't worked and I know that.

Jayden Doye 00:07:55 And it worked to get me in. So. So a good a good Facebook ad. So this that's why I still promote to this day. I say businesses should really be looking at using meta ads because it's such you get such a higher ROI versus a billboard where, okay, you have this billboard, but people cannot stop their car in the middle of the highway and put your website or your phone number in their in their phone.

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:20 Versus click it or anything else.

Jayden Doye 00:08:22 Versus on a Facebook ad, they click your lead magnet, they opt in. Now you can legally call, text and email them and they're on your list. So even if they were not in a car accident today, 3 to 12 months from now, when they are in a car accident because they're getting your weekly newsletter. Your top of mind?

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:40 Yeah. So a buddy of mine, he's a he runs an SEO company. His name is David Haskins, and he was showing me he sent me a screen share of a video.

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:49 It was video screen share of his phone and he's trying to he is intentionally trying to feed Facebook's algorithm about like, car crashes and try to see how many injury lawyers would pop up. And it was full. It was wild, like, because the the algorithms gotten way better. I guess if you're intentionally feeding it, it's going to. Absolutely. But it is wild how how effective Facebook has gotten when it comes to their ads.

Jayden Doye 00:09:13 Absolutely. And along with coaching, I have worked with a lot of coaches. At this point, I have spent probably over $300,000 on coaching and consulting, and it has definitely fast forwarded the track for me to get to that million dollar mark. Now that I have $1 million firm, I will say I am less stressed now than I was when I was only making $250,000 a year. $250,000 a year was like the worst time of my life.

Tyson Mutrux 00:09:42 Sure. So let me ask you about the coaching a little bit more about that, because there's kind of like different types of coaching.

Tyson Mutrux 00:09:48 Yes. Like like there's more. There's some, like, nuts and bolts type coaching. Okay. You're a CPA. You're a lawyer. You do this, this, this and this. Or there's the more of, like I'd say, the more of the performance type where tries to get you past, like, the mental blocks and like. So my, my coach is Jason. Doctor Jason. He's the former performance coach for the Saint Louis Cardinals. He's he's very successful. He represents a bunch of athletes and I it was it was one of those things where I was introduced to him almost by accident. And I, I didn't realize I needed to get past some of those mental blocks. And that's where he's helped me. So he doesn't really give me the nuts and bolts. He gives me more like the the mental blocks get get up, get out of my own way. So I am wondering, like, which kind of way did you head when it comes to coaching? And have you tried different coaches over the years? Have you found one way is more effective than others?

Jayden Doye 00:10:37 To your point? I think coaching can is customizable and different people go to coaching for different reasons.

Jayden Doye 00:10:45 I'll speak for me personally. I have a therapist that I go to for my mental blocks. Who works with high performers and things of that nature? I think a lot of people go into coaching for the money mindset. That wasn't my issue. From day one, I knew I was meant to be rich, okay? And working 80 hours a week and getting paid barely minimum wage was not the life that I was meant to live. So for me, I. I felt like whatever shortcomings or shortfalls or wherever I feel like I don't have the expertise in yet, let me find somebody that has that expertise that can teach it to me. And I am a high performer, and high performers thrive on learning new information. So as I was going through the CPA process, the CPA process is a it's like it's brutal. It's like it's like pledging a fraternity. You know, when people pledge a fraternity or sorority, it's like a 10 to 13 week process. When you become a CPA, it's like doing that process four times.

Jayden Doye 00:11:48 Okay. So when I went through that process, as excruciating as it was, it was very rewarding. And that's where I really feel like the idea of me having my own firm was birthed because I learned so many different new ways to serve clients. And so from there, I started reading. I read all the books, listened to all the podcasts, and all of that is great, but there's a level of self-sufficiency that that I can that I know that I'm capable of. And there's a level of, okay. How about I get somebody to help me implement this? So I've been through leadership coaching. I knew one time when I had cussed out my staff in the staff meeting, that that was at that point I needed something needed to change. So that's when I prompt it for leadership coaching. When I became a profit first professional, there's a profit first coach that they give you. I worked with a coach, Danielle Harvey. Doctor Danielle Harvey, who really helps service owned businesses get into shift from 6 to 7 figures and do it with ease.

Jayden Doye 00:12:55 And also, she helped me learn how to do live events. So I do retreats for lawyers. And so working under her, I learned that. And then there's been other coaches along the way. But anything where I feel like I do a great job of assessing shortcomings for other businesses. And as I'm doing that, I'm also thinking to myself, maybe this is something that I need to improve on myself.

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:19 You know? So I don't often cite the ABA. So the American Bar Association, but they had done some research, and they found about a third of small law firms cite financial instability as their biggest stressor, which is no surprise to me at all. But in your experience, what do you think is the most common blind spot that law firm owners have about money? And why do you think that so many? There are a lot of brilliant lawyers, but why do you think so many of them fall into the trap of of. Of whatever that most common blind spot might be?

Jayden Doye 00:13:51 Okay.

Jayden Doye 00:13:52 It's so easy. It's because they go into business with the employee mindset. There is a gap from being an employee to being an employer that has to be filled with a certain level of expertise, some type of coaching or consulting or a degree. People go to school for business for four years, get a degree, and still don't know how to run a business. So what makes people think that they can go from being an employee to running a business and everything is going to be squeaky clean without, you know, getting learning more expertise, right? So that that truly is the gap, not getting the help that they need from day one. And they're just thinking with the from a lack mindset versus thinking. Let me get someone that can help me create a business enterprise. So when I'm working with people, I tell them, stop thinking like a lawyer. And you are a law firm owner. You're no longer a lawyer. Stop saying that. You're a law firm owner. Law firm owners think differently than lawyers.

Jayden Doye 00:14:52 Law school taught you how to think like a lawyer. Now that you're a business owner, you have to think differently. You have to think about having a profitable business enterprise. If you want to get paid $100,000 salary, you have to figure out how your owner's compensation could be $100,000, and you can still pay all your operational expenses, and you can still have your desirable profitability rate. So what happens is they just get in that that hamster wheel and they get stuck. If you don't ask for help, if you don't get the right help that you need early on, then you're just going to dig yourself too deep. And then at that point, your credit is too bad. You can't get any loans at that point. You're so deep in cases you can't even hire somebody to to do the work. You don't have enough money to hire help. And so that's where that's where people get stuck.

Tyson Mutrux 00:15:41 Yeah, I think it's really interesting watching when you're talking to law firm owners about that. The whole idea of being a law firm owner versus being, you know, an employee and getting.

Tyson Mutrux 00:15:51 So it's more like the working on the business and then in the business kind of thing. It's really interesting. Like, like kind of watching their eyes open to it. And it's cool to see them develop into that law firm owner. I'm sure you've seen that too. It's such a cool experience.

Jayden Doye 00:16:05 Absolutely.

Tyson Mutrux 00:16:06 Yep. So I know you've talked previously because you speak and I'm sure you've done plenty of podcasts, and I mean, you've had not the most not the easiest upbringing. You definitely you know, you were what was the county that you grew up in?

Jayden Doye 00:16:19 Prince George's.

Tyson Mutrux 00:16:20 Prince George. It's I read something. It's it's a I mean, you did you mentioned how diverse it is when it comes to financially, but like the lowest of the low in some areas, like it's extremely low poverty in some areas. But if you could share one piece of advice with your younger self who was still sort of like maybe living paycheck to paycheck, so maybe that's in your younger years as, as an accountant where you were kind of starting the business, but, you know, things weren't as as easy as they are now.

Tyson Mutrux 00:16:48 What what sort of advice would you give yourself.

Jayden Doye 00:16:50 That's a good question I think. I was honestly really good with money in my, in my youth like growing up poor teaches you how to turn a penny into a dime. Right. So just barely getting by. That was I got that I was never even. Now that I'm wealthy, I don't splurge a lot. Right. But if I. If I had to give a bit of advice to myself, it would have been probably in my first year of business to niche down to lawyers in the first year, because I didn't really start niching down until year 2 or 3. Like really going all in. Right. And that would be that would be the only advice. But I didn't know I had to go. I feel like I had to go through that to, to I had to I mean from my process was a little different. My process was actually having the interviews with people in the niche market, talking to referral partners to the potential niche market.

Jayden Doye 00:17:52 Going to the networking events, I would go all in. Doing a 30 day marketing campaign, I would go all in and I did that five times and then looked at the results, saw how I felt and decided on law firms.

Tyson Mutrux 00:18:07 Did you know when you were in school that you wanted to own your own business?

Jayden Doye 00:18:11 No, I didn't know that. I was very, very, very comfortable being an employee. You know, growing up in Prince George's County. So we're pretty much I'm one exit away from DC. Right. And so and you have to remember, my dad was born in 1957, which is only maybe four years after Jim Crow was abolished. Right. So His growing up is was a whole different. Whole different arena than my upbringing. Right. So in his mind, in in the minds of people in DC. Get a government job. That's what they say. Get a good government job. Get us be a secretary and work your way up, that's what. Or go into the military.

Jayden Doye 00:18:57 That was that was the mindset. And so I knew that that I knew I look I didn't even like waking up early until recently. Right. So going into the military was not an option and getting a government job, I didn't really I didn't want to jump through all the hoops for that, but I was comfortable getting a good job and working and just working my way up. It wasn't until I was becoming a CPA, and in my fourth year working at the CPA firm I was at, that I realized that I wanted to serve clients differently. And honestly, I even did a search to see if maybe there was a firm out there for me to work at that had the same values and same ideologies that I had, but there wasn't one out there that I could find. I just don't think I think traditionally CPA firms do a lot of churn and burn, right? Meaning like, get it in and get it out as, as quick as possible. We're going to charge low rates and we're just going to get as much clients as possible.

Jayden Doye 00:20:01 That whole volume game. Never. It just doesn't work for me. And working 70 hours a week, 60 hours a week, having what that does to your mental health doesn't it doesn't make sense to me. Like the productivity even goes down after people start working 40 hours a week. So why are we requiring people to work 60 70 hours a week? That's that's not making any sense. And so I knew that I did not want to have a volume based firm. I knew that we were going to do the bookkeeping all year round. So when it came time to taxes, we weren't going to have to cram all of these hours. Let's just say it takes 120 billable hours to do a year of accounting. How can you possibly do that for all of these clients within the span of 3 to 4 months? It doesn't make sense. And so birth prestige. And I'll tell you, I talk about this a little bit in my book, Raise the Bar. But I was taking ibuprofen like a multivitamin for my last year at that firm.

Jayden Doye 00:21:04 And that was not that. That was not healthy. Always having a headache, having anxiety. As soon as I pull into the parking lot, I mean, I would be sick. And then as soon as I would leave the parking lot and get onto the road, I would feel fine. It was really bad and I wasn't the only one that was experiencing that. And so one day it was so weird. My best friend was visiting me for no particular reason. I still think this was godsend. And so she stayed with me for a couple of days. And I remember this was right before maybe my third or fourth CPA exam. And that day at work, I had put on the calendar that I was taking two days off because I had this routine where I would take two days off before the exam and I would like, cram like I would, I would study for for four hours, take a nap, do it again for four. Like I had that type of schedule. And I remember the boss yelling at me like, are you crazy? You know, your loyalty belongs to me.

Jayden Doye 00:22:02 And and I just remember feeling. I remember shaking because I just felt so uncomfortable in the fact. And I'm growing up, I'm used to meeting aggression with aggression. You can't do that in the workplace. And so that energy that I held when I went home, she said, how was your day? And I just broke down in a way that I don't remember ever feeling like that in a very long time. She had never seen me like that. And that's when she was like, you know, you need to go.

Tyson Mutrux 00:22:29 How is that guided and how you treat your employees?

Jayden Doye 00:22:32 Well, I knew for a fact that I didn't want to be the I didn't want what I experienced for my employees, the experience. And I'll say, the boss that I am today is a better boss than I was the first two years. But the first two years we grew rather quickly. So we went from a team of one to a team of 13 within the first two years.

Tyson Mutrux 00:22:56 Pretty quick.

Jayden Doye 00:22:57 But I was the only manager there was.

Jayden Doye 00:23:00 Everybody worked under me. Now I understand hierarchy and organizational charts and things of that nature. Team leads and we have that. So it was very stressful for me at that time. I had people I'm gonna just be honest. I had people that were just trash employees. I had people that were stealing time. I had people that were just submitting stuff that was garbage over and over again. And I'm just like you, you, you you don't understand why I keep getting frustrated because you keep sending me trash, right? And so I had to really do an assessment because at one point my doctor actually told me I had high blood pressure. I had. It was in between December and January, December of 2020 and January of 2021. Even with 12 team members working under me, I was working 80 hours a week for eight weeks.

Tyson Mutrux 00:23:49 And you're in your 20s at that time?

Jayden Doye 00:23:51 Yes. I had gained £23. And yeah, my doctor told me I had high blood pressure, so I had to trim the fat.

Jayden Doye 00:24:00 Literally and figuratively, which is the title of another book that I'm working on. I like it, but yeah, I had to let some people go and I had to get the right team. I had to cultivate leaders in my organization. And so now that we have that, I stress the importance of mental health with my team members. I stress the importance of taking time off having weekends to yourself. I don't require them to work weekends if they want to, fine, but I don't require it. Sometimes we do have to have a meeting on the weekends. If we sign on a really big client and we need to cultivate a plan on how we're going to clean things up, but I am. I give them gift cards during tax season so they can get the essentials like, you know, water, healthy snacks, things of that nature. And we're also going to be incorporating a a exercise challenge soon where we're going to I just have to figure out how exactly to flesh it out. But where we're going to incentivize people exercising, because I have seen how much that has been a positive impact on my life.

Jayden Doye 00:25:01 And honestly, this past week I had an employee who told me that we had our weekly huddle one on like a with this with the manager, and after he was like, do you have him in? And I said, sure, what's going on? And he was just saying, I just want you to know how much of a positive impact you've been on my life, not only just with this job, but you have been a positive impact on my life in so many other ways that you just don't know. And I just want to thank you for that. And that honestly made me feel so good to hear that. And it made me. It told me that what I am trying to cultivate with the culture of this company is working.

Tyson Mutrux 00:25:43 That's incredible. That's a good feeling. That's that's great. If you look back, it sounds like you made some hiring mistakes, like we all have.

Jayden Doye 00:25:49 Oh, absolutely.

Tyson Mutrux 00:25:50 What do you think, though, makes for a good employer or a good hire? How how were you able to change that and then cultivate the environment that you have and hire the right employees?

Jayden Doye 00:26:02 Okay.

Jayden Doye 00:26:03 So some roles. My problem was that I was hiring all potential a lot and some roles. Either you have it or you don't. Okay. Certain salaries, either you have it or you don't. It doesn't make sense for me to pay you over $70,000 a year, and I have to spend 90 days training you on doing this, this $70,000 job. You need to come in at $50,000. And then when you are worth $70,000, then we'll upgrade you to $70,000. It's that simple. Sure. But people think because they've been working in the field for so long that they deserve a certain rate. Your years of experience mean nothing, honestly, because you could be doing something for ten years and doing it terribly. What is your level of expertise? Okay. And so what I have implemented is assessments. You could talk a good game, but I'm going to let's let's go through these multiple choice questions. Tell me how to do this journal entry. Okay. So tell me how you would. Here's the scenario.

Jayden Doye 00:27:02 Tell me how you would clean up this IEEE to account.

Tyson Mutrux 00:27:05 So you're giving them realistic scenarios. Absolutely. So almost like an exam.

Jayden Doye 00:27:10 Absolutely. Yes.

Tyson Mutrux 00:27:11 Nice.

Jayden Doye 00:27:12 And they have to answer it on the spot. And for my clients that I will hold.

Tyson Mutrux 00:27:16 So wait. Back up. Wait. So this isn't something where they they're in a room by themselves filling it out. No. You're asking them these these these questions, and you're kind of. They're squirming and kind of figuring it out. Yes. Interesting.

Jayden Doye 00:27:29 Okay, so before we used to do the assessments before they would even interview with me and if they. So it was a multiple choice, two multiple choice quizzes, one for business taxes and one for law firm accounting. And if they scored below 70 on either one, they don't get to interview with me. Now we've shifted it and we do the the regular interview first and then we do the assessments after.

Tyson Mutrux 00:27:51 Interesting. So we we actually start with a phone interview and then we have assessments after the phone interview.

Tyson Mutrux 00:27:57 And then we kind of go up from there. And we so we use the the assessments as a filtering process. But then we get into more of like situational questions at the last interview is what we do so that it is interesting. Why why did you, I guess, remove that filter earlier on and switch to what you did?

Jayden Doye 00:28:17 That's what the market called for. So I'm working with a recruiting service and that was one of the barriers to entry. It worked maybe a year and a half ago but now you know it's just not working. So I guess.

Tyson Mutrux 00:28:31 Candidates wouldn't didn't want to do it, I guess.

Jayden Doye 00:28:34 See, here's the thing. Accountants think that it's an employee market when it's really not. Right. But I'm going to let them believe that. Okay. It's an employee market, right? And and honestly, let's have the interview. Let's see if if you know, if there's a good if, if we have, you know, good rapport to begin with. And then at that point you can make the assessment on if you feel like this is a job that's even worth going to the next step for.

Tyson Mutrux 00:29:03 Gotcha.

Jayden Doye 00:29:03 Yeah. And I also I also felt kind of weird hiring somebody after the first interview per se. Right. So I like having the interview, knowing that I like them and then do the assessment as a second interview.

Tyson Mutrux 00:29:19 So are you still doing the the interview yourself? Yes. Why is.

Jayden Doye 00:29:23 That? It's not overwhelming at all. We don't we don't have enough people that are actually applying to for it because it's it's such a narrow niche market. We're really looking for unicorns. So it's it's not an issue for me.

Tyson Mutrux 00:29:37 Yeah. We have a it's a four interview process with a bunch of other things in between. So it's I only come in at the very last interview and it's, it's by that point we've got it down to like 1 or 2 candidates. And I just give the green light or the red light on it. So it's, hopefully you'll get to that point because it's in you will at some point. It's just one of those things where it's so nice because you're not having to.

Tyson Mutrux 00:29:58 There's a lot of filtering. And you may have you may have found a way to kind of get to the unicorns faster if you have. I'd love to hear it. But it's one of those things like filtering through a lot of job applicants is kind of a nightmare sometimes.

Jayden Doye 00:30:10 Yeah. So let me be clear. Let me let me change what I said. So I do the interviews for a staff accountant role. So imagine a hierarchy. We have accountant one, accountant two and then staff accountant accountant one and accountant two. I don't interview Those hiring decisions are made by the operation manager alone because he's managing them. If they don't work out, it's his. It's his problem, right? Staff accountants. They. They work with me. So they would they would interview with me and the operations manager.

Tyson Mutrux 00:30:41 Gotcha. I'm glad you clarified that because. Yeah, because doing hiring for every like, every role too is just. It's a lot of work.

Jayden Doye 00:30:47 Yeah. Yeah. No.

Tyson Mutrux 00:30:49 Very good. All right.

Tyson Mutrux 00:30:49 Yeah. So I want to shift Gears of Profit first. Okay. It is funny. I pulled this quote something you'd said. Profit first isn't just spreadsheets. It's a whole new mindset where business owners learn to pay themselves first, which I think is great. When did you first have that? That light bulb moment, that profit first could. I'm going to say radically, but I think I think it can radically shift. But when did you have that first have that light bulb moment where you realize that profit first can radically shift a firm's trajectory?

Jayden Doye 00:31:18 Okay, so I'll give you my brief history of profit first. I had a prospective client that I lost because I was not a profit first professional, and she was insistent on having someone that knew prophet first, like the back of their hand.

Tyson Mutrux 00:31:33 Had you heard of it at that point? No. Okay.

Jayden Doye 00:31:35 Gotcha. Okay. This was maybe a month or two into being in the business.

Tyson Mutrux 00:31:40 Gotcha. Yeah, it is interesting because even to this day, there's a lot of accountants that have never heard of it at first.

Jayden Doye 00:31:45 So I, I was like, okay. I mean, I feel like the priority here should be, you know, getting these years of taxes done. But if you say so. Sure. So let me see what this is all about. So I read the book and when I say I read the book, I listened to it. I'm an audiobook person. So I read the book and I was like, I don't really know about this. So I left it alone. Then maybe six months later, I read it again with a different mindset because at this point I felt like I was reading certain books, like Thinking Girl Rich and that were actually changing my mindset. So I read it again with the new mindset and I said, okay, let me try it out myself. So I tried it out myself and I became debt free at 28, I believe 28 or 27. Yeah, paid off all my student loans. And at that point, that's when I realized, okay, this is this is something that actually works.

Jayden Doye 00:32:41 So then I went through the process of becoming a profit first professional, and now implementing it with law firms has been very transformative.

Tyson Mutrux 00:32:49 What was it like seeing it succeed for the first time with a law firm client?

Jayden Doye 00:32:53 Honestly, it was it was so interesting because not only did they have financial success, but their lifestyle was better. They had never taken vacations before. Now they were traveling multiple times a year and had a business that ran on it, you know, ran without them having to be there for a few days. Okay. Like that's not too much to ask for. And so that was that was really I really felt like that's the impact that I'm creating. I'm helping people create more jobs. And so it was very rewarding for me.

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:33 I'd say that most of our listeners have probably heard of prophet first, but there's probably a few new people that have not heard of it. Can you talk, I guess explain the basic concept to to lawyers so they can kind of have a better idea as to what it is, what we're talking about?

Jayden Doye 00:33:45 Absolutely.

Jayden Doye 00:33:45 So prophet first is a cash flow method that guarantees the business to be profitable. The cash flow method is based off of a book written by Mike McCall and motorbike Mike. Yeah. So and he's he's a great author. He's written other phenomenal books as clockwork.

Tyson Mutrux 00:34:03 There's something else. Yeah. There's another one to. Yeah. He's got a he's got several. He's really. Yeah. He's great.

Jayden Doye 00:34:08 Yeah. So basically what happens is you for every dollar you earn you shift some of that money to separate accounts. Right. So all the money that you earned goes into an income account. That's only where you earn income account goes. Or earned income goes. And twice a month on your allocation days, you're going to allocate a certain percentage to a tax savings account, which you will hold so that you can make your quarterly estimated tax payments. You'll put money into a profit savings account, which you'll hold so that you can treat yourself to profit distributions, a quarterly vacation, a nice trip, whatever you know, a new bag, new pair of shoes, whatever you want to do to treat yourself quarterly, it's always there and then the rest will go to operating expenses.

Jayden Doye 00:34:56 Now there is a in the method. There's also a owner's pay account. However, most people they pay payroll out of their operating expense account. So what I tell them to do is make one transfer for the owner's pay so that you, you know, that you you're just getting in the habit of shifting that money, knowing that you're going to pay yourself, and then you're going to shift that money the rest of the money for operating expenses. And so what happens is when you see less money in the account, you are it forces you to do do more with less.

Tyson Mutrux 00:35:30 You know how much money you have, right? It was great.

Jayden Doye 00:35:33 So before people they would see, okay, I got $50,000. I can do whatever I want. But what they didn't know is that some of that is for taxes. Some of the, you know, all the obligations that they have now that when we incorporate profit, first you have profit. You're not going to touch that. You have your tax, you're not going to touch that.

Jayden Doye 00:35:53 And the rest is for operating expenses. So now it really forces you to think, okay, am I truly getting the ROI that I need out of the things that I'm paying for? And it and it makes people pay themselves and treat themselves because too often lawyers are paying everybody else. How could you pay an attorney in your practice 120,000, and you only giving yourself $30,000. That doesn't make any sense. We need to figure out a way to. So clearly there's some optimization that needs to happen here so that you can get 120,000, just like the other person's getting 120,000.

Tyson Mutrux 00:36:31 Yeah. We had a guild member at a at a mastermind a few months ago. I guess she's it's about six months ago now, and she had not paid herself in like a year and a half. And so she was like about to crack. And that was the first thing you had to pay yourself. Like you have to pay yourself before anybody else. Right. Because the situation that you're in right now is because you've not been paying yourself.

Tyson Mutrux 00:36:54 And luckily she she's a person that, like, doesn't spend a bunch of money. So she was able to do that. But I don't know about you. I don't know if I could go without paying myself for a year. Year and a half. That's just. No. That's insanity. Yeah, and it will. It'll drive you insane, is what I'll do. So you said something. You said it is. It is something that the profit first is guaranteed to make sure that you will have profits, I think. Or something like that. It was interesting that you said that because I've never really thought about it that way. And I think most people might think, well, isn't all accounting designed that way? No. So what would you say to that?

Jayden Doye 00:37:28 It's not because what happens is traditionally in accounting, we think revenue minus expenses equals profit. We're profit first. We're switching that to say revenue minus profit equals expenses. And with profit first you're putting money into the profit account first.

Jayden Doye 00:37:47 Hence the name profit first. And we're not touching that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:37:50 I love it. So I believe you'd worked with a boutique law firm where the revenue had soared 40%. However their take home profits had actually decreased substantially. And so you you talk a lot about growing versus scaling. And so if you look at the DNA of your average law firm that's successfully scaling. What's the key difference in how they think and operate day to day.

Jayden Doye 00:38:17 Okay, so I think the growing firm is just thinking about getting more clients while the scaling firm is thinking about. Scaling the practice, getting more employees, getting more offices, things of that nature. I really feel like people that are I feel like below a million, you're really more in a growing phase. Over a million in in gross revenue. Now we're talking about scaling.

Tyson Mutrux 00:38:49 Right. It is an interesting difference. For me it feels like growing is more just taking on expenses almost. Where. Yeah, you're getting bigger. but are you really making any more money? And that that is interesting.

Tyson Mutrux 00:39:03 Something that I've seen over the years where, I mean, even I kind of went through it where we, we took on just too much overhead. You know, we, we were growing, growing, growing. We were like, oh, we'll just we're, we're making more money and then started to see the profits decrease. We're like, okay, wait a second, let's put the brakes on. Let's pump the brakes for a second. But because it is really enticing, there's things I call like ego numbers. I feel like revenue is an ego number, but profit is great. Like you want profit, right? Revenue doesn't mean, Jack, if you're not making money. Right? Another ego number might be like, oh, the number of employees. That's something really big with law firms. I've seen where like, it's an ego number. I gotta have 50 employees. Like. Well, I mean, right, or like, do you want to be broke? I mean, like, do you you don't really need that many employees, right? Maybe you do if you're growing that fast, but are there other ego numbers that you can think of that maybe like lawyers or companies in general focus too much on?

Jayden Doye 00:39:58 I think you really hit it on the head, but I think that the important fact that I want to talk about here are that there are discretionary expenses versus necessary expenses and as a profit first professional, but also a tax planner, I have to.

Jayden Doye 00:40:15 I have to play both parts. So yes, I want you to have a profitable firm. But I also don't want you to overpay the government. Right. So let's figure out ways to create. Let's figure out ways that you can expense things that may be discretionary. You don't necessarily have to. And that will give you long term benefits. So for instance let's just say a law firm is looking at having we're projecting to have $100,000 in profit at the end of the year. And that's going to give them a certain tax liability. Or if they sponsor five organizations at 20,000, that will give them the visibility that they need to get between 10 to 50 clients next year. Let's go ahead and do that. Sponsorship. It's not something that you have to do, but it will lower your taxable income and it will have a more long term effect. That's the good thing about having higher profits. It allows you to pay for those more discretionary things that provide more long term benefits, because a lot of people, when they are faced with expenses or investments, they don't think, am I going to get a short term? Am I going to see the results short in the short term? In the long term? And so when I'm working with clients, that's one of the conversations that we have as we're reviewing their numbers.

Jayden Doye 00:41:37 So you have your break even point like your firm has. You have to spend 30,000, 50,000 a month for you to have, you know, just baseline. And then there's the discretionary expenses on top of that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:41:49 It's a Mizzou because I went to Mizzou and got a degree in marketing there before I went to law school. And the thing they preach all the time, and I think they do it because they talk about they're essentially talking about corporations that are like, you know, actually publicly traded companies should operate. You know, they should you know, the number one goal is to make sure the break even, you know, you don't want you don't want to make too much money. You don't want to lose money. You want to kind of break even. I think that makes sense for like a corporation that is publicly traded. I don't know if it makes as much sense when it comes to like a, a law firm or, or an accountant, you know, things like that. But I like the idea of the, the long term versus short term, because it seems like the firms that like on December 31st, are trying to spend as much money as possible to lower their tax burden.

Tyson Mutrux 00:42:34 That is more short term thinking as opposed to like that long term thinking. There's no strategy to it.

Jayden Doye 00:42:39 Yes, that's why you have to do strategic planning year round. And tax planning is a year round process. It's not just talking once a year. We have to talk at least once a quarter.

Tyson Mutrux 00:42:49 Right. I think that I think that's more another another quarter of yours, or at least I think it's a philosophy of yours. It's a firm can't thrive if the owner is the entire system. So this is one of your quotes a firm can't thrive if the owner is the entire system. It's about building a machine, not a treadmill. So tell me more about that.

Jayden Doye 00:43:10 Well, the reality is, if you are the one that's answering the phone, handling the cases, filing the motion. What happens if you get shot? Are you going to be in the hospital for a while?

Tyson Mutrux 00:43:21 By bus. I talked about all the time.

Jayden Doye 00:43:22 Yeah. You know, and your clients will. Your clients will definitely suffer.

Jayden Doye 00:43:27 Right. So you will never in your life ever walk into a target and see the CEO of target ringing people up. You will never walk into a Walmart and see the CEO of Walmart ringing people up. Matter of fact, I don't even know if they still have cash cashiers or if everything is self-checkout at Walmart at this point, right? So as we're talking about owning a business, let's really incorporate that business mentality into here and understand that there is a client journey from the sales process to the to the onboarding, to the actual working on their case or their matter and the onboarding and all of that should be able to be done without you. And you could just put yourself in. Insert yourself where you want.

Tyson Mutrux 00:44:12 I love that you have this perspective on things. You. I mean, I can tell you really. Over the years, you've done your homework. And I mean, you really do understand that. I think it's incredible. What? And it's not always easy talking to lawyers. I as one I know, I know that that we're not always the easiest to talk to.

Tyson Mutrux 00:44:28 But what's been the toughest conversation that you've had with a firm owner about letting go of control? And how did that conversation ultimately change the business?

Jayden Doye 00:44:38 Oh, that's a good question because I have quite a few instances where that happens. Let me tell you how I make it work. What I do is I know that lawyers are used to like depositions. They're used to questioning. Right. So instead of telling them the answer that I want, I ask the question and get them to get the get the answer that I want them to get to. So, you know, I ask them, let's just say, for instance, about the, you know, prequalification of leads. I think that should be done by virtual assistant. You know, when we're doing a time audit, I'm looking, you know, how much time are you spending on that? How many of those people actually converted? How much is your time? Your billable time actually worth if you were to charge by the hour? Do you think that you're recouping that money based off of the time that you're putting into this activity? What if I told you that you could pay somebody 15, $20 an hour to do that, and they could get three times the result that you can get because you're only putting a fraction of your time to that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:45:47 Yeah.

Jayden Doye 00:45:48 Would would you believe me if I said that?

Tyson Mutrux 00:45:50 Do you find that most of of lawyers that you work with, they know the answer. They just need someone to kind of pull it out of them.

Jayden Doye 00:45:59 That's a good question. I honestly, the ones that I work with, honestly I don't think that they do. I think that this is this is honestly really new to them. Like the they you know, I know a lot because of all of the masterminds and coaching and books and podcasts. Many people are not like that. They don't surround themselves with that much education. So I am really helping, like I'm really changing their lives for the better and introducing them to a lot of new information. And for a lot of people who have had money traumas, sometimes I have to I have to change my delivery a little bit because there is a level of empathy that I have to have. I'm a very stern person. I'm a very matter of fact person. However, there is a level of empathy that I have to have with people, and because I'm able to play both sides at works.

Tyson Mutrux 00:46:58 I'm like, like you in that. That way where I am a matter of fact, here's the answer. You go to these things. It does seem like sometimes people need a little bit. They've got to kind of come around to it. You know what I mean? Like, they can't you can't just say, do these things. They really need to kind of come to it on their own. You've got to take a little bit more time with them. I think I think that that's that's true.

Jayden Doye 00:47:21 So for me, at that point, I feel like sometimes when the conversation is going too long, I'll close with, look, you don't have to do at the end of the day, it's your business. You can do what you want. You could keep doing things the way that you've been doing them, but keep in mind the results that you're getting unfavorable. Or you could take my advice and implement this proven strategy and it will work for you. But you know, it's up to you.

Jayden Doye 00:47:47 And sometimes I have actually seen I say you need to contact this specific company to get this specific job done. And instead of contacting that company for some odd reason, they go to another company and have a bad result. And I have to say, okay, so let's go back to the conversation that we had on February 1st. Remember that the reason why I say go to this company is because you would get A, B, and C, then they go to that company and they get the desired result, and then after that, then they know, okay, I need to listen to this guy and follow his advice.

Tyson Mutrux 00:48:20 Let's shift gears a little bit and is your motto really reached new heights and catch more flights? Is that really a motto for you?

Jayden Doye 00:48:28 Absolutely.

Tyson Mutrux 00:48:29 Tell me more about that.

Jayden Doye 00:48:30 So remember when I said at the time when I was early in business, I had high blood pressure, so I had to figure out how to reduce stress. And so travel was really cheap at the time.

Jayden Doye 00:48:43 So I started traveling, right. And travel was just so rewarding for me. Like, not just I feel like it was a physical, spiritual, mental cords that I was getting from that. And so I incorporate that. I want people to feel what I have felt traveling the world. Which is why now, when I do so, I do three lawyer retreats a year. So I take lawyers to, We went to Dubai, we went to South Africa, we've been to Curacao, we're going to Dominican Republic, we're going to Jamaica. So they get time to work on their business versus in their business. And there is one you feel relaxed being in Paradise to your experiencing a different culture and that that's rewarding. But you're also experiencing different economy and you're able to see people who are so happy with less. So being in Atlanta, a lot of people have to keep up with the Joneses. The Joneses need to keep up with me, okay? I don't need to have. Anytime I get something fancy, it's for me.

Jayden Doye 00:49:51 It's not for me to flash around. Right? So I really want them to reach new heights in their business so that they can also reach new heights financially and also be able to see the world. And we've added on to that tagline. So it's not only reach new heights and catch more flights, but it's also reached new heights. Catch more flights and see more sights.

Tyson Mutrux 00:50:13 I like it. That's really good. I like the I like the idea of going to different areas around the world too, and the idea of, you know, seeing how happy some people are at making far less money. I think that that's I think it's that's great.

Jayden Doye 00:50:27 And the other thing about it is back to the story about people who haven't traveled before. Right. It forces you to have a business that can run 3 to 4 days without you being there. 24 over seven. Yes, you'll be available for emergencies via slack or via teams or WhatsApp or phone or whatever, but you don't have to be clocked in from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m., so you you have to make some changes.

Jayden Doye 00:50:53 You have to have the right team, people and processes in order to do that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:50:57 I remember the first time I took a vacation and I did not get one message from the team and it was like such a cool feeling. You know, just. But you're right. It makes you. It forces you to do that where the team, the team has to figure it out on their own. And it's, it's it's a such a liberating thing.

Jayden Doye 00:51:15 And it takes time to get there. It doesn't happen overnight. It takes years for some people, truly.

Tyson Mutrux 00:51:20 So for law firm owners that they feel like they do need to be changing their desk all the time. What do you think is the single biggest mindset shift that they need to make to get away from that?

Jayden Doye 00:51:30 So the lawyers that feel like they have to be chained to their desk. So usually they're I dig a little deeper about what is that really about. Like why why do you feel that? So then there's two different mindsets. There's one mindset.

Jayden Doye 00:51:47 The person that loves trial. So when you say chained to desk, I really I take that as in the courtroom. Right. So they love they actually enjoy trial. Okay. Cool. So you need somebody to manage the other parts of the business. If you want to be the practicing managing practicing attorney, that's great, but somebody needs who am I going to talk to about these numbers? Who am I going to talk to about hiring things of that nature? And they're okay with that. The other side of that are the people that feel like they need to do that in order to reach their financial goals. And when I break it down to them about the results that they have been getting by doing that, I show them that that's not actually that doesn't actually make sense. It would make more sense for you to create an environment where you have employees, like working under you. There's cross training things of that nature, and you're able to dibble and dabble in the different parts and really serve as a mentor for your role.

Jayden Doye 00:52:49 Like I really make people understand you are now shifting to being a leader and a mentor, and that is a reality that people have trouble grappling, but when you really break it down to them, the financial benefits and the and all of the mental benefits of doing that, it starts to win them over.

Tyson Mutrux 00:53:10 It's great advice. I do have one more question for you, but your the website is accounting Dash Atlanta. Is that right? Yes. Okay. And then how do people get in touch with you if they if they want to get in touch with you.

Jayden Doye 00:53:23 Yeah. So the website they can schedule a complimentary consultation there or I'm most I'm all active on all social media, but I'm most active on Instagram at the great Jaden.

Tyson Mutrux 00:53:36 And then mention your book again, my book.

Jayden Doye 00:53:38 So I have a few books out. My my favorite one right now is Raise the Bar and that that one if you search raise the bar Jayden Doyle on Amazon, you can find it. And I think that one, that one is I feel like the most transformative for for law firms.

Jayden Doye 00:53:54 They should start with that one.

Tyson Mutrux 00:53:56 Love it. All right. Last question At the end of your journey okay. When you look back on your legacy. What do you hope law firm owners remember you for. And what's one final action you'd urge them to take right now.

Jayden Doye 00:54:09 Oh that's a good question. So I, I want to be remembered as that person that really shifted lawyers from thinking like a lawyer to thinking like a business owner, creating these multi-million dollar business enterprise without having to work overtime and traveling every month or every year, multiple times a year. But if you want to do every month, that's cool with me too. And so that that's that's really what I want to be remembered for. What was the second part of the question?

Tyson Mutrux 00:54:46 And what's one one action you you'd urge them to take right now?

Jayden Doye 00:54:51 One action I would urge them to take right now would be to prioritize Eyes understanding your numbers. That being. Actually making sure that you're working with the CPA. That will go through your profit and loss numbers with you, help you explain your balance sheet numbers, your KPIs, and help you from a financial standpoint to make data driven decisions versus emotional based decisions.

Jayden Doye 00:55:23 Understanding your numbers is necessary to make data driven decisions. So if you have anxiety around that, figuring out a way to work through that, I understand for a lot of people that's not easy. But I'm an advocate for therapy. I think everybody should be in therapy, especially if you're a business owner. And on top of that, a lawyer.

Tyson Mutrux 00:55:43 Love it. Thanks, Jaiden.