What pieces do you need in place to start your law firm? What is the thought process and mindset that gets you to “take the leap”? What foundations would you need to get started?
In today’s episode Jim and Tyson are interviewing Josh Rohrscheib the new law firm owner and start up of Onward Injury Law. Josh started his own firm recently — and as he says in this interview there are so many great things about starting your own firm including starting with that blank canvas. Having the ability to take what you love to your new start up and leave what you don’t like.
This and more is what we are talking about today! So listen in.
Episode Highlights:
01:09 Josh’s big news – He started his own law firm with people that he loves working with and hiring one of his best friends as his marketing director!
02:00 The thought process about hiring a marketing director right out of the gate – which is – What if I could put someone with 40 hours behind them in this area that they are an expert in?!
04:15 The Genesis, thought process and planning to go out on your own and how being comfortable can be a crutch
06:44 When you are questioning your impact
08:32 How are you feeling, being 2 months into owning your own firm?
10:16 Decision making behind the naming the new firm – Onward Injury Law
12:29 The planning that went into the starting of the law firm
14:29 What’s it like starting out with a blank canvas?
16:11 What needs to take place for you to know that this was the right move
17:50 Having a mindset to focus on the good
Jim’s Hack: If you work out at the gym keep an eye out for the people that are working hard and give them a thumbs up.
Josh’s Tip: 1. TextExpander Course for lawyers 2. Lainer Trail Academy MasterClass: A three day masterclass for lawyer 3. ”This is Water” speech by David Wallance
Tyson Tip: Switchmail.com – The easiest way to securely send business mail online.
🎥 Watch the full video on YouTube here.
Connect with Josh:
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Transcript: What Would It Take to 3X Your Business?
Speaker 1
Run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum lawyer podcast, podcast, your hosts, Jim hacking and Tyson metrics. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm.
Jim Hacking
Welcome to the show. Welcome back to the maximum lawyer Podcast. I’m Jim hacking.
Tyson Mutrux
And I’m Tyson Meatrix. What’s up, Jimmy?
Jim Hacking
Oh, I’m very excited about our guest today. He’s one of our favorite lawyers that we know one of our favorite law firm owners, and he has some big news about his practice. He’s been on the show before. His name is Joshua Shipe. Josh, welcome to the show,
Speaker 3
man. Thank you. I’m pumped. I appreciate the really warm introduction.
Tyson Mutrux
Yeah, I was also really excited about this one. Because Josh, I’m genuinely like, you’re one of the nicest people I’ve ever met. So you’re just a great human. And I’m so happy with what you’re doing with your firm. So let’s start with that. What is the big news? And then after you talk about the big news, then go back and tell us about your journey.
Speaker 3
Sure, man. Well, I, I started a new law firm January 1, and I still kind of have counsel to the firm that I’ve been with for seven years. But I’ve brought my team and I’ve started a new practice with people I love working with, with a goal to really grow and kind of see what we’re capable of as a team. And we’re hoping to make a big impact in our community in central Illinois. But I’m so excited. Last week, I also hired one of my best friends, I hired a marketing director. And that’s so it’s a kind of an exciting week for me around the firm with her joining. And I’m excited to tell you guys kind of more about that decision and what we’re trying to put together.
Jim Hacking
Josh, you know, a lot of our members in the guild and and maximum, we’re in general struggle with hiring someone. And I find it interesting that you hired a marketing person right out of the box, especially given the fact that I think you do a really nice job on your marketing. So walk us through your mindset of what you were thinking and how you arrive there.
Tyson Mutrux
Well, thank you,
Speaker 3
I guess there were a bunch of different kind of thoughts, it all kind of came together. One of the great things about being in the guild is your Saturday morning discussions. And I remember one was probably five, six months ago, and Jim was talking about plans for the next year and a golden like 2x or 3x, their production, I’m sorry, I don’t remember the exact but I thought man, that’s a bold, badass thing to say I’m going to do. And that got me started thinking I then spent some time with one of my cousins who’s like a brother to me, who I’m really proud of is that a lot of business success. And he just said, what would it take to 3x your business. And as a thought experiment, I had this like, talk with them to like, you know, two, three in the morning. And I thought I need to double down on marketing, I need to be able to grow our team and need to be able to have have better systems and focus more on the client journey, and I’m gonna need some help, I’m going to need someone I trust to really execute. And we’ve worked with some agencies, I’m happy with our current marketing agency. But there’s some things that a marketing agency can’t do for you when it comes to building local relationships executing lots of things for you in the day to day. And, you know, I feel like for a central Illinois lawyer, I’m an above average marketer, but for a marketing professional like, nowhere, I can’t do for myself what a really talented marketing director could do you know, and if I’m able to, apart from like running the firm and work on my cases, dedicate five to 10 hours to marketing functions. What if I had someone who could put 40 hours of time at it, who’s going to be more skilled than I am? So I think a lot of folks who follow Mac’s law or really enjoyed marketing, you know, it seems like they’re people who are really into the systems and people really ended up building out like a marketing apparatus. I probably fall more in the the marketing side of that ledger. But just being a realist, like, if I could have someone like way better at this stuff than me helped me out. I think it’s going to be a really instrumental piece of driving the firm forward.
Tyson Mutrux
So Josh, I know that this decision was not easy for you to do, right. Yeah. Yeah. It seemed like you were in a very good spot. Like you were happy with where you were right. So will you tell people about sort of what your arrangement was, if you don’t mind, like what they think it was before? And then what the Genesis was for you to say, You know what, this is what I want to do that I want to start my firm.
Speaker 3
Sure, well, I’m still of counsel to this firm, but I was a partner with a firm called bull Robinson Nelson in central Illinois was a bunch of lawyers who I love I mean, people who our friends and like it’s like a family dynamic there and they’ve been really good to me. They have a generous model, a supportive kind of culture, and my business has grown a lot because of all the support I had there. So I felt a ton of loyalty to them. But I think you know, after having Tim Scott your conversation and working on me these talks with my cousin a few other things, you know, I kind of felt like if I want to, I only get one shot at this and you have to invest in yourself. It wasn’t fair to like expect the owners of that firm to shoulder the cost of doing everything I wanted to do, I needed to bet on myself. And that’s what it kind of ultimately came down to. And I realized I mentioned this to Jim, in our mastermind, that I was letting my just, you know, fondness and loyalty and friendship be a crutch. And I was using that, like, oh, no, I don’t need to leave, or I don’t need the freedom to start something new. Because I’m happier like these guys. And the truth is, I gotten really comfortable. And I was having, you know, kind of relative success in this market. And I was comfortable. And I think I was using the fact that I just really care about the folks in my firm as sort of a mask for the fact that I was comfortable to kind of lie to myself about why I wasn’t making a bolder action. And then, you know, I talked to them about I had some tough conversations, because I didn’t want them to feel like I was disloyal. I care about how these folks feel about me. And I think, you know, the two owners of this firm, and honestly, like you to have done more for my family and my career and my growth and many other lawyers on the planet. And I guess I just didn’t want to burn that bridge. So I had some discussions about why I really wanted a chance to better myself and like, is there a way to still kind of be involved and supportive of the lawyers in that firm and make it a win win. And so I can have the freedom to do what I feel called to do. But I can also still be like a friend and asset and supportive to the lawyers who I care so much about, and I was thrilled that they were I mean, I don’t think they love the idea. But I think they we ultimately found that there’s a way we could make this work. And I’m glad I mean, I think I’ve gotten to the point where I probably would have had to just, you know, jump entirely. But I’m glad that at least at least for now. And I hope it endures, I can kind of hopefully have the best of both worlds and run my own firm, but still co counsel some things with them and continue that friendship. Josh, I
Jim Hacking
find it remarkable that you as you said, we’re in a comfortable space, things are going well. And that you still were thinking about, is this as good as it gets. Well, how else can I challenge myself? What in your background? Where does that come from? Do you think this sort of? Because he certainly I wouldn’t say you were not at ease. I think you were very much at ease with but what was it about you or your background? That led you to keep questioning whether this is where you wanted to end up?
Speaker 3
You know, I’m not really sure what the best way to answer that is, but I think a whole lot of it was related to becoming a father. And I know you guys will really understand how becoming a dad just changes you and you think about like, what your impact is going to be how your kids are going to see you and what you contribute, and then the model that you set for them. And the example of you know, I felt a lot more pressure, there’s a pastor church that I used to attend, before I moved in, he had a great line, he said men are like old trucks, we run a little better when we’re pulling a heavy load. And I love that I feel like when I became a dad, I got a lot more motivated. And there’s some other things I want to do that. I mean, you know, as a personal injury lawyer, I practice scenario with some stigma. And I really want to build a firm that is community minded and gives back a lot to the community. I also didn’t feel like I should if I was part of a firm, I should be telling other people that I want to give their money away too. It’s a little different, you know, if you want to give your own money away, but I kind of want to set an example for my kids of being philanthropic and community minded and helping lift people up. And I think all those things kind of came together.
Tyson Mutrux
So tell us, we are now two months in one day, and how are you feeling?
Speaker 3
You know, I feel good. I feel excited. I think it certainly helps a week ago, a really good friend join me. And I am excited to see things being executed on that, you know, we’re kind of in my queue that we’re getting moved, you know, I’m excited to grow. I mean, I’m also nervous, because when it’s your firm, there are no excuses. You got no one to blame but yourself if you’re not executing if you’re not moving forward. And I wasn’t really comfortable. And I don’t really know how to get from here to where I want to be like I’m struggling with like, what’s the next hire? And how do I make sure we keep like the kind of values and vibe we have with our team as we grow. And unfortunately, you guys have built a lot of great resources for lawyers to help like navigating those hard questions, but things are going really well.
Becca Eberhart
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Jim Hacking
You’re listening to the maximum lawyer podcast Our guest today is Gildan lawyer Dad extraordinaire Joshua Scheibe ROHRSCH EIB, and I spelled that out because I noticed that the name of your new law firm is not worship law. Can you talk a little bit to our listeners about your decisions surrounding the naming of your firm?
Speaker 3
Yeah, so the firm’s called onward Injury Law onward like we help good people get through a tough time. That’s kind of the idea that we’re working with their heart of it, Jim, like, I love my staff, I didn’t want to inflict suffering upon them, to have to spell roar shied like 400 times a day, every time to give someone an email address or a website. It’s really hard. And I learned this the hard way, I used the Virtual Receptionist. And when I listen to the calls, man, they would mangle my hug. And it was just, it was comical, like how like not even close to ever been, there’s no way that a client thought that was like an in house person, you know, so part of it is this idea of, you know, wanting to have a branded firm to stand out in the market, of where all my competitors, it’s just a sea of last names. And that’s fine. Some good reasons for that. But there were some other, you know, I’d like to be able to add lawyers without worrying about like egos, and whose names on the door, and, you know, build kind of a brand. And, you know, also if I want to do some billboards and stuff later, maybe my kids won’t get like RAS as much at school, I don’t know, I just saw a lot of advantages. And while I’m not sure there are a lot of buyers of like law firms in central Illinois, in some of my talks with like Chris nicolaysen, you know, our admiration of what like the Connecticut trial firm was doing and stuff, it’s hard not to see that if you have a branded firm, you have something that you could maybe a little bit easier to sell someday, if you ever wanted to get out of this space. So there were a lot of reasons. The main one, though, Jim, is what you lead with. It’s just too hard on the staff. So I’ve worked with a few different naming vendors that get a bunch of ideas. And my goal is to try to come up with a name that wasn’t about us. Like it wasn’t, you know, a rah rah, we’re X years experience, but something that we could at least tie to the client’s journey. I mean, I feel like I’ve got to explain it like a little more than I would like, but I’m hoping that like a good tagline will help with that. If any of the listeners have really good taglines for onward Injury Law, man, I’d love to hear from them.
Tyson Mutrux
I would do I think that’d be great. You know, you should spend an hour Jim hacking, because Jim’s really good at things like that. So I guarantee it’s already in his brain, it’s processing. So I bet I’ll have some good ideas
Unknown Speaker
by the end of the call here.
Tyson Mutrux
Exactly. I wonder I guess I got a couple a couple questions in my head. The first one I want to ask you is alright, so you are two months in, right. But there were some planning that went into this. It’s not like you just started on January one and the like, Okay, you had to start from scratch there. You started before that, but has anything surprised you like have you taken on any of the of the work that maybe your previous firm was doing, they’re like, oh, my gosh, this is different than I anticipated.
Speaker 3
Okay, I hate to sweat the small stuff and feel it all week. But I wouldn’t be real and a little bit vulnerable here. And like, it’s easy, and like idiot proof is things like gussto, make payroll, it still freaked me out. Because I had one dear friend leaving an employer, I have people from my old firm who are betting on me and coming over with me, I was really worried about having a gap in health insurance, you know, so getting all the Employee Benefits stuff and the HR in place, I’m not at a size yet where it makes perfect sense to have a full time office manager and HR, you know, bookkeeper, I just don’t feel like I’m quite ready for that hire. So I’ve been like, at least doing a lot of the initial setup myself. And you know, at my old firm, that we have an excellent staff that takes care of all of that. And I think I kind of took for granted that some of those folks, because I didn’t realize quite how much of a pain it is getting all of the banking and the practice match and the transition to like, trying to move over like 70, some clients from one firm to another, we’re still going through that, I mean, part of being of counsel is, I’m able to close out some files, because the lawyers that I work with are great people. And they’re like, the most important thing is the client and their experience. So if you’re at the client, and we’re like on the goal line, like it makes the most sense, just to close the case out in that firm and pay him through that, you know, so you know, just all these little things do kind of add up living in two different practice management systems, two different emails, man, I can’t wait to be through the transition. But that should be done by like, you know, the end of the month.
Jim Hacking
Tyson and I were speaking earlier today about sort of the second chance of starting a firm, you know, after a partnership or after you’ve had some experience and some time under the effort. Talk to us about what it’s been like for you to have that blank canvas and sort of what your thinking was as far as what you knew you wanted to have, and maybe some things that you wanted to leave behind.
Speaker 3
Wow, man, Jim, you asked really compelling, profound questions. I knew it was a chance to try to upgrade the software and to try to you know, there’s so many things about Tyson’s firm that I really admire like the way he invests in efficiency and systems and really got both of you guys that but I decided to like to make the switch to file vine and I’m I’m hopeful that we can use some of the theory and lessons that you guys teach about automation and building in efficiency, and especially about building in client communication. I think if we become really great at anything, I want it to be like the client journey and their experience. And part of it is the discussions on the during unit. And I think most law firms don’t give much thought to how often they’re checking in how often they’re seeking feedback. And I’d like to once or if God, if we could twice in the life of each case, do something just really kind and unexpected to surprise the client, just so I mean, I think one it builds trust, but two, it builds a massive referral apparatus. And three, like, you know, the folks we represent are people who are going through one of the harder chapters of their life. And if we can show them a little bit of added compassion and care in a personal way, that’s like the kind of canvas I want our firm to. That’s how I want us to like the picture I want us to pay. We’re not there yet. But that’s kind of the goal is trying to make the client journey as positive and supportive as we can.
Tyson Mutrux
Josh, I wonder if in 10 years, right, you look back. So 10 years from now, what needs to take place for you to know, hey, it was the right decision to make this move.
Speaker 3
That’s a great question. Tyson. I hope I can live up to this value. But we want to make a big impact in the community, we want to give a lot to like causes to support children and other you know, safety issues, too. But I’d love to be in a place where we’re getting close to reinvesting like 10% of our revenue to the community. And I know that sounds a little crazy, I feel a little embarrassed to say I almost feel like it’s a form of tithing. Because I think it’s also good marketing and good business. I’m like halfway between St. Louis and Chicago. And with Zoom Corp coming in, it’s only a matter of time until more firms in each place are like, are coming into the market where I am. So I want to be building kind of brand affinity and doing things to make people really care. But I have this silly daydream, like this little vision of this may be less altruistic than I just painted it. But imagine you’re at counsel table during jury selection. And you know, during voir dire, the defense lawyers talking to the panel, and multiple people say yeah, I’ve heard of them. They gave my kid advice. They gave him a bike helmet. They bought backpacks for my grandkids. I mean, how screwed would that defense lawyer be? I just think that would be the most beautiful place to be in 10 years about? So I don’t know, I think the real answer is I want us to really get back and away we can be proud of and feel like we made a difference.
Jim Hacking
I’ve heard of some long plays before. But that is a really long play. I love it. I love it. Because I know, that’s not the only reason you’re doing it. Josh, I’m struck in listening to you as to how lucky the three of us are, and how lucky we are that we have this ability to sort of build the life that we want. And there’s so many people in the world who don’t have that opportunity. And I know that whenever I talk to you, I always feel like you are a pretty grateful person. Can you talk about the power of gratitude?
Speaker 3
Well, you guys teach a lot about mindset. And the fact that one of the other kind of guilty ends was I was just listening your episode very recently about making the choice to kind of focus on the good, and to think about the people who move you and lift you up and really try to tell them how much they mean to you and how grateful you feel to them. I think it’s just you know, I’m in I’m in Bloomington, Illinois right now. And there’s one of the best riders of maybe the generation ahead of me. And so I fell him in David Foster Wallace, who lived here. And he gave the just this incredibly powerful commencement address called This is water, all about this topic that we can’t always control what happens to us. But we can control how we decide to process that and how we decide to live with it and let it work on us. And how you know, even if it’s sometimes you got to tell yourself, like little stories to make your day to day experience a little happier, a little more positive. But I mean, I’d encourage any of your listeners to check out that commencement speech. This is water, it’s, it’s really powerful.
Tyson Mutrux
I love it. Alright, Josh, so we are getting up against the time so I’m gonna wrap things up. As always, I love talking to you. You’re just just such a great person. If you’ve got a case in central Illinois, send it Josh’s way, he is just such a great human being. Trust me, your clients, your referrals will be extremely happy with the results because he’s doing He does great work to not only as a great human being, but he does amazing work. So very good stuff. Josh, thank you so much. We’re going to wrap things up before I do. I want to remind everyone to join us in the Facebook group, the hundreds of free Facebook group over 6000 Law Firm owners, and they’re sharing their secrets every single day. So join us there if you want a higher level conversation with people like Josh, join us in the guild go to max law guild.com And just amazing things being done inside of the guild, trust me and while Listen the rest of this episode, if you don’t mind giving us a five star review, we would really appreciate it helps us spread the love with other law firm owners that really need the help. Jimmy, what’s your hack of the week?
Jim Hacking
My hack of the week is this if you work out at a gym, keep an eye on the people that are working hard. And give them a thumbs up or a wink, or let them know that you see that they’re working hard. When I first started going back to the gym, and I first started trying to lose weight. It made a huge impact on me, when a couple of different people who go every day just told me they were watching or that one guy said I inspired him. And I’ve started to do that to other people that I spot at the gym who are working hard. And I think it’s a nice virtuous circle. And you don’t know how much of an impact it makes on people, especially people like me who didn’t feel completely comfortable at the gym. There’s one lady that does the rowing machine behind me after and I’ve given her a few thumbs up and it’s a good boost for everybody.
Tyson Mutrux
Yeah, okay, so I don’t know about you. Like, I like giving people a high five or a fist bump. I just like giving like is when you get a fist bump or a high five. How good do you feel like you’d feel so good? Even if you have the earbuds in right, given that fist bump man like? Yeah, just give them the look. I like the agenda. I know I feel good whenever I get it. So all right, Josh, you are next. You know this, you know the routine? What is your tip or hack of the week?
Speaker 3
Well, I have to the one you guys are from the future on tack like the ZAP Athan will be awesome, I hope people will take advantage of that. One thing I use a lot is text expander, which is so easy to use. And it saves me so much time. And it’s so gratifying because they sent me these emails telling you how much time you saved with it. But I didn’t know how to use it right out of the box. So I found a really affordable course called Text Expander for lawyers. And it was like, I think it was like under 100 bucks. It wasn’t much at all. But it gave me the confidence if you’d like to learn how to use it. And it’s a bunch of little modules. And it was great. I can’t remember the name of the teacher I saw. He’s speaking at tech show in Chicago. But it really helped me then the second thing is a conference that I attended last year from the first time kind of, at the urging of a lawyer I really, really respect and it’s the linear trial Academy. And Mark Lanier is arguably like the greatest living lawyer. I mean, he’s had unbelievable success. And it is this three day tour de force where he takes you inside his best thinking on communication theory, persuasion, storytelling, how to use exhibit. So it’s a masterclass in the art of lawyering. And I found it enormously inspiring, because it gave me the sense of like, what’s possible. And I feel like I only digested like, 5% of it. So I’m going back, it’s in Houston in the summer. But I found it motivating enough that it started like a weight loss journey. For me, one of the things he talked about in the persuasion, that was How Being Overweight can make you lose a little credibility. And I think I just had to hear it from like the world’s greatest lawyer to realize that I needed to make some changes, you know, or risk not serving my clients as well. And that kind of shook me a little bit. So I started walking and I lost like 45 pounds. And I would not have I don’t think if I wouldn’t have gone to the linear trial Academy is it’s not a weight loss of dog. It was just like one slide, but it hit me man. So I think if other people go there will be other things that were hit them and change the lives and if you go to what like it was one of the best conferences I’ve ever attended. The best I’ve ever attended was Maxwell con 2019, which like blew like the blinders off of me and like change how I thought but the linear trial Academy is awesome. And I’d highly recommend it.
Tyson Mutrux
You and David Terry both highly recommend that I’ve never made my way out there. But I need to have heard really good thing so and checks in the mail about Max Lacan. So we’ll send you the, for the for the promotion. So for mine, mine is way more lower level simple, but it solved a massive problem in our in our office. I don’t know about you all, but we sent Addison certified letters, and it’s a real pain in the ass to send certified letters. But we stumbled upon something called Switch and there’s no monthly membership you pay per certified letter, I believe it’s the same cost as sending a certified letter. If you go to the post office, all you do, you upload the PDF and you send it out and it’s like whatever their calls for distance certified mail. No one’s leaving the office we used to do with your case mail, the case mill got really clunky, like case mail.us We got really clunky. And so we’ve been sort of struggling with using case mail and we found switch switches. It’s really easy. It’s called Switch mail.com I’ve got in front of me switch mail.com Really, really good. Definitely recommend it. So you switch the switch. We switch to switch make the switch to switch it Josh, thank you so much. Really appreciate you coming on and sharing your story and good luck, man. You’ve got this. You’re gonna crush it. I can’t wait to see what you’re gonna do.
Unknown Speaker
Thank you gentlemen. I appreciate you both so much. Bye, guys.
Speaker 1
Thanks for listening to the maximum lawyer podcast. To stay in contact with your hosts and to access more content content. Go to maxximum lawyer.com. Have a great week and catch Next time
