The Importance Of Processes In a Law Firm with Jeff Horn ML137
Categories: Podcast

In this episode, Jim & Tyson interview Jeff Horn, owner and principal of Horn Law Group, a firm that specializes in family and divorce. Hereunder Jeff tells about why he focused in family and divorce law, and his two books: Shock Proof Divorce and Shock Proof Family Law. Tune in as they talk about how having processes for everything in the office has helped workflow, the challenge he took in breaking a comfort level and how you learn through experience, and his aim at recruiting lawyers that only want to be family law practitioners to partner with them and grow geographically.


This week’s episode is made possible by the support of Blue shark Digital, which  provides cutting edge Digital Marketing marketing for law firms.

Register to MaxLawCon19, June 6 and 7 in St.Louis.

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  • About Jeff
    • Attorney in Tom Rivers, New Jersey
    • Principal lawyer at Horn Law Group
    • Three lawyers,three staffs including a recent hired marketing manager
    • Six letterhead firm
    • Inspired by MaxLaw and mastermind experience
    • Has own podcast The Bold Sidebar Podcast
    • Lawyer second career
    • Participation in strategic coach, unique ability.
    • Find talented people to do everything else, including marketing
  • About Jeff’s firm

    • Best clients come from referrals
    • Spend money on digital world
    • Hired Blue shark digital to revamp their website
    • Direct mail advertising to people who need their services
    • Workflow wise, have processes for everything in the office
    • Have over two hundred written processes
    • Telephone free council, a go giver service
  • Why family Law?
    • When started on practice, family and divorce came in through the door
    • Smart lawyers didn’t want family and divorce
    • More and more cases
  • Jeff’s two books
    • Jeff’s “Bang for the buck” is love writing
    • Shock Proof Divorce Started it in 1998 and finished it in 2005
    • Shock Proof Family Law Tightening up of his first book
    • Get an idea, put it in blue folder, and once there is a pattern start dictating
  • Where Jeff will be in three to five years

    • Resource book “Traction”
    • Doing vision tracks
    • Recruiting lawyers between thirty and seventy that only want to be family law practitioners
    • Partner with them in their offices to grow geographically
    • Do back end business at headquarters giving them the opportunity to do their own practice
    • Have five branch offices
  • About Jeff’s podcast
    • Commited to do more human connecting
    • One two one conversations recorded and put out to the world
    • Has somebody to do the editing
  • What challenges Jeff the most
    • Breaking comfortable level
    • Hiring marketing manager and associate when there is no money
    • Small practitioner should believe in himself and be patient
    • Grow out of cash flow problems
    • Hard once you have seen comfort zone
    • Jim > “It’s all about putting yourself in more difficult situations and taking risks
    • “If you fail at something, it’s not failure, it’s learning”
  • Advice to lawyers

    • Take free way out for learning
    • Mindset training
    • Listen to podcasts
    • “Invest in yourself because your two hundred grand is just a tip of the iceberg for what you are going to spend to keep up”
    • Run harder, technology will run into businesses
  • Tips for sales or closing the sign up of a case
    • “People buy for own reasons,not because they think we are smart”
    • Pretend it’s first day in practice
    • When people ask questions don’t give a law school answer.


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Jim’s hack: Book  “Tiger Tactics”: Powerful Strategies for Winning Law Firms by Ryan McKeen, Billie Tarascio, William Umansky, Theresa DeGray and Jay Ruane. Will have them on MaxLaw with tactful practical things.

Jeff’s hack: Reading book “The courage to be disliked” by Ichiro Kishimi – Some highlights > “You are not a victim, you are not in competition with everyone else during competition with yourself to be your best sales” “Do what you do for your community” – Look at the practice of law

Tyson’s tip: Eliminate least profitable activity from your life and start doing more profitable activities




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Transcript: The Importance Of Processes In a Law Firm with Jeff Horn

Jeff Horn
Do you have to have processes for everything in the office? So we now have literally written down about 200 and some processes over the last six months. And it just de stresses, everything. When someone’s not here, someone who intuitively does something brilliantly in the office, like open the mail, or send the mail out. And those who without competence now go to the process and say, All right, I can get this done.

Unknown Speaker
Run your law firm, the right way. This is the maximum layer podcast, podcast, your hosts, Jim hacking and Tyson metrics. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm.

Jim Hacking
Welcome to the show. Welcome back to the maximum lawyer Podcast. I’m Jim hacking and case the matrix What’s up Jimmy Ohtake. And I’m out in San Diego, for the second day of trafficking conversion. This is digital marketers conference with 7000 attendees we got to hear from Richard Branson last night, that was pretty interesting. He’s had quite a life. And so he was sort of the headliner. But you know, when I go to these conferences, I usually try to go to the smaller sessions to try to hear just some nuggets from people that are real practitioners. And I heard some good presentations on YouTube, and on Facebook Live, and on a community building. So I got some good ideas for our maximum lawyer Facebook group.

Tyson Mutrux
Very cool. So what do you think is the number one thing or the best thing that you’ve heard to this point? best piece of advice, I’ll say,

Jim Hacking
it’s to get actively involved in these Facebook groups. I know you and I sort of watched maximum lawyers Facebook group sort of take off on its own, but the lady who spoke used to run digital marketers Facebook group, and then now she contracts out Facebook hired her as a community manager. So there’s like, you can actually get certified as a Facebook community manager. And there are a lot of little visible things you can do. You can highlight your members, you can, you know, just start more debates and conversations. And he really profile what you’re doing in the Facebook group. And it’s just much more engagement than just sort of broadcasting announcements. And so I saw that we’re doing a lot of things right, in our group. But the lady who spoke was she was rock solid. Interesting.

Tyson Mutrux
I mean, it’s it’s cool that we’re doing things, right. I mean, it was all organic. So none of none of us really planned. So it’s, it’s kind of cool that it’s that we’re doing some things right. I’m sure we can do do better on highlighting members and things like that. So we’ll do that. Jimmy, we do have a guest this week. So I want to make sure we respected his time. But I do want to make an announcement maximum lawyer this week is made possible with support of blue sharp digital, which provides cutting edge digital marketing for law firms get more info at Blue sharp You want to introduce our guests in a week?

Jim Hacking
Yeah, so our guest today is Jeff Horn. He’s an attorney in Toms River, New Jersey. And I’m really excited to have Jeff on the show. He and I met at mastermind for John Fisher in Washington DC about a year ago. And Jeff is also noteworthy for being one of our listeners who actually has his own podcast, so I want to talk to him about that. I’m really excited. Jeff, welcome to the show.

Jeff Horn
Oh, thanks so much, Jim and Tyson. Yeah, I got to meet Jim actually at blue shark digital. Because of the mastermind experience, John Fisher invited me when I met him at strategic coach, and I am a devoted maximum lawyer, podcast listener. I’ve imposed it on my family. If you get in the car with me, you’re gonna be listening to some kind of podcast and odds are its maximum lawyer.

Tyson Mutrux
The podcast that I impose on my wife is the Tony Kornheiser show. And Christopher nicolaysen He and I shared the same thing. So I’m sure Gretchen is punished by the law Tony Kornheiser show, I even sent me a shirt from shatter. So those of you littles out there know what I’m talking about. So, alright, so Jeff, tell us about yourself about your law firm, how you got to where you are now.

Jeff Horn
Sure. My pleasure. I’ll give you the real quick version. Right now we are three lawyers have three staff, including a marketing manager, who we just hired, really inspired by a lot of the stuff I’ve learned on maximum lawyer, and mastermind experience. And also my participation in Strategic Coach reminds me about this concept of unique ability, and I have very few, so I’ve got to find really, really talented people to help me do everything else, including marketing. I often say I’ve never worked a day as a lawyer. It’s a second career for me. So when I came out of law school, I had a clerkship for a great superior court judge and Tom O’Brien and then I opened up my own practice and never practice a day under anybody else’s letterhead, built up a firm with six people on the letterhead and then we decided that wasn’t working out so great. So we parted Friends, I think they all still love me, I love them. And now we’ve regrouped, and only dealing family and divorce law and living a paradise of the Jersey Shore, that talk to us

Jim Hacking
about your firm the size of it, how it works, the workflows and where your clients come from.

Jeff Horn
Sure, the best clients always come from referrals. Jim and Tyson, you guys know that. So other lawyers, other professionals, former clients, always give you the clients that are going to have the best relationship with you the most satisfied with your services. But in a digital world, we are spending some money. In fact, we have just hired blue shark to revamp our website, we do some direct mail advertising, to folks that may need our services. I’ve been a direct mailer for a long time before I was even a family and divorce lawyer. So that does generate some activity, workflow wise. And again, I want to give all the credit in the world to this Jay Ruane you guys know, Jay, I listened to a zoom cast about six months ago. And he said you have to have processes for everything in the office. So we now have literally written down about 200 and some processes over the last six months and just distresses everything when someone’s not here, someone who intuitively does something brilliantly in the office, like open the mail, or send the mail out. And those who without competence now go to the process and say, All right, I can get this done. When the other person isn’t there. We do telephone free consults. And we do many per day, very few turn into clients, but it’s sort of a service to the world. Kind of the Go Giver, attitude that I know you guys share, that we’re happy to talk to folks, even if they cannot afford to retain our services, talk to him, try to get their heads on straight and get him in the right direction. And then those who are apt to want to hire us, and they come in and bring your checkbook, I should say bring their credit card. That’s how people pay now. Right?

Tyson Mutrux
Right. So Joe, I’m looking at your website and it says you know, family law, state business services, general litigation, and like you primarily do family law, though. What I’m always curious why famous? To me, it’s the worst practice area ever because people are they just ever know no one’s happy and not to knock your practice there. I’m just curious why family law.

Jeff Horn
It’s so funny to say that because I didn’t figure it out for a while. That’s why it’s so many other practice areas. Okay, I fought it ran away from it. And I will tell you, I did tax work. I that was by far my most profitable work of all my years, we’ve made a lot of money doing tax, and I just drifted away from it. Then I bought apartments, I own 53 apartments, apartments at one point. Then I bought a paper shredding business. And I started a big cleaning business. I have 5070 people working for me. And then I went to strategic coach. And it just brought me back to what you’re good at what you love what you charge up the steps to do every day. And that is family and divorce. But I always say it ticked me because remember, when I mentioned when I started my own practice, it was just me there was no one else around, I had no direction. So what came in the door was family and divorce because smart lawyers like you Tyson didn’t want it. So you said I’m not taking a stupid family case for whatever it was at the time. 1500 bucks. I’m going to work on my million dollar pie case. So you sent it to me and I got more and more and more of those. And I believe got pretty darn good at it. And it’s a necessary function in society. And I don’t know there’s something wrong with me. I agree. But there’s something wrong because I love it.

Jim Hacking
Jeff, talk to us about your two books that you have available for download on your website. How did you go about creating them and what bang for your buck? Have you seen for them?

Jeff Horn
Yeah, well, the bang for the buck for me personally, is I love writing I write every single day I journal every single day. So go back to shockproof divorce. That’s a book I spent literally years writing if I started practicing 98 And then 2005 I finished that book so that was over a seven year period shockproof family Lula who’s just just a tightening up a smartening up in that book. And then they also have a parable rich uncle divorce the way I right now is I get the idea. And I have my blue folder. Okay, now Tyson, I know you are super tech guy. You’re not gonna like this, my blue folder. And when I get an idea for a creative project, I write on a piece of paper and I put it into the blue folder. And every few weeks I go through the blue folder, get rid of the stupid ideas, the crazy ideas. But once there’s a pattern And then I started dictating, I can’t type. I’m incompetent to type on a computer, understand how to use a lot of the software, but I can dictate, I use the dragon on my iPhone, and it works well enough to stream out ideas. I read a book by Alex Haley said, don’t worry about writing the first chapter first. So I might be writing the sixth chapter first. Just write and write, and write and write and write. And these things form into books. I have another book that um, as well, a long short book called first eight days of your divorce. So I love doing it. bang for the buck in terms of credibility. A lot of people mentioned the book. Sometimes people actually cross examined me about something I wrote in a book. Well, Jeff, you said on page 87 of your book, this now you’re telling me that so that’s gonna make for some funny client interactions.

Tyson Mutrux
Love it, and just you know, in gym can attest to this, I carry around a little black book that I take notes and all the time and I take notes religiously, and old fashioned paper books. So they’re there. There’s something about having that piece of paper just to write on. So I

Jeff Horn
got to I’ve learned in tech from you. Every week. I can’t keep up. But but we do. We do take tips and advice. And I was really wowed even by how you guys set up your follow up, so that I would be on time for my call, and I got a text, I got an email, and I got a phone call. So you can’t ignore that.

Tyson Mutrux
Okay, that’s all Jimmy and I can’t stand that thing. So he took me off. He took me off. Because I get it every week you get it? Oh, yeah. So here’s my question for you. When you’ve gone to Strategic Coach, you’ve gone through a lot of over your career and a lot of different things you’ve done investments, practice areas, things like that. Where are you going to be in three to five years? What’s your planning? Like? Where are you headed?

Jeff Horn
Thank you for that. So one more plug for one other resource out there is the book traction? I think you guys have mentioned this on here. Do you know when? So So without that I would just be making up a complete BS answer right now. Okay. But thanks to that book, traction and doing that vision, traction organizer, Maggie Moriarty, my main lawyer in the office, and I do this, we really have a plan. And our plan is to now we’ve just consolidated only taking family cases, that’s only over the last few months. And now I’m hot on recruiting other lawyers between the ages of 30 and 70, who just want to be excellent family law practitioners, to partner up with them in their offices to grow geographically, we’re at the Jersey Shore. So we have really three zones here in New Jersey, we have West jersey, Philadelphia zone, and then we have northern Jersey, New Jersey, New York suburbs, and open up offices with partners, where we will do all the back end stuff, all they will need to do is be an excellent lawyer, to be an entrepreneur, and not worry about anything else. Just be completely free to write, to serve clients to be an outstanding advocate to give their clients excellent customer service. And we will take over every other function here at the at the World Headquarters. So my hope is over three years to have five branch offices, and to really nurture those other lawyers to be really happy people who love what they do, who make a decent living, and have a real firm, without some of the rivalries and competitiveness that that arose when we had six bowls under one roof. And we tended to elbow each other in the ribs more than I want it to on a day to day basis. So that’s the game plan.

Jim Hacking
One of the downsides to Tyson and going down to Columbia, Missouri is I don’t get to elbow him in the ribs as much. You’re a big fan of podcasts. And you mentioned that and you also have your own podcast talk to us about what you were thinking when you started your podcast. And what have you seen manifests itself since starting the podcast

Jeff Horn
a couple years ago when I was kind of fertilizing this idea. And I was writing in my journal, I had committed to doing more human connecting. I kind of had fallen out of that loop age of my kids status of my life and I wasn’t going out and meeting people and loving on people. As much as I used to, so I pledged to do it. And then for several months, guys, I didn’t do it. So then I was really kind of torqued on myself. And I said, Look, there’s another way I can do this. I can meet with people one at a time. And so far, all of my podcasts have been people, either I’m in their office or they’re in mind. So one are in someone’s home, even we’ve done in Chicago, one to one across the table. So having that human contact, and just turn it into, hey, if we had a conversation, who would benefit from it? Well, I don’t know. But let’s record it. Let’s put it out to the world. My avatar listener is is my friend Pete Bronzino is a younger lawyer, I forced him to go on his own when he was looking for a job about 10 or 12 years ago, I saw it in him that he would be a star. So he went out on his own. And it’s sort of when, when Pete was a brand new lawyer, that’s my avatar listener, it’s getting some traction, I’ve dropped 16 shows so far, I look forward to that as much as anything else that I do both the recording of it a prep, and will so when it actually drops, I’m always very excited. Teen, George is our marketing manager, she would have the numbers to try to figure out how much our listenership is growing. So admire how you guys have done your thing. So if we succeed, it’s because we’re copying off a maximum lawyer. So thanks in advance.

Tyson Mutrux
I love it. Do you do your own editing? Did I catch that? Or?

Jeff Horn
No, we have a guy who does the editing and put some music on there and puts kind of the intro outro does all that puts all that together for us. Gotcha.

Tyson Mutrux
Okay, I want to make sure it because I didn’t want you to make it seem like it was too easy to do. Because what we do is really hard.

Jeff Horn
You know, you gotta love it, you can’t fake it. If you don’t like doing it, it’s not going to work. And I just sit with my laptop and my, or they call us and Blue Snowball mic. And we just drink coffee and talk about being a lawyer. And

Tyson Mutrux
nicely, well, I’ve got a real I’ve got a real question for you. And the one I like asking, and it’s what challenges you the most, what’s the most difficult thing for you to do? What do you see?

Jeff Horn
By far guys, because I’m already established, I have a comfortable life. It’s saying to myself every day, all right, take your comfortable life, break that apart, hire a marketing manager that you don’t really have the money for hire another associate lawyer who knows nothing who you’re going to train up. And that’s what I’ve done in the last six, seven months. So then when your cash flow isn’t so great, when that bank balance that used to be in my attorney business account is draining down, and you start to go Holy smokes, what am I doing? Why am I doing that? That’s the biggest challenge every single day of being a small business person, a practitioner, it’s that belief in yourself that you’re gonna grow out of your cashflow problems, you got to be patient, it’s harder to do once you’ve already sort of seen a comfort zone in your practice and in your personal life, when you’ve had a decent amount of money coming in. And now you’re you’re kind of breaking that all apart. So I’m in that mode right now. And trying to stay strong. So any words of encouragement I’m happy to receive?

Jim Hacking
Oh, I think that’s just a tremendous mindset. I mean, obviously, with you being willing to spend the money and take the time to go to strategic coach and to hang out with cool cat like Seth price, that blue shark and John Fisher was a mastermind

Jeff Horn
and impact matrix? Well, of

Jim Hacking
course, yes, that goes without saying. But I think that a lot of lawyers sort of miss that. I think a lot of lawyers do get to that comfort level. And they don’t think about growth or expansion. I mean, I think a lot of our listeners do. And I think that’s sort of one of the trademarks of our membership is that everyone sort of wants things, either better or faster or smarter, better. And I think that this really the idea of keep maintaining that edge by putting yourself in more difficult situations, obviously, there’s risk there. But walking that high wire is really I think what it’s all about,

Jeff Horn
I really appreciate that and I think you’re 100% Right. I think the people that invest the time podcast and go into mastermind, going to the conferences going to the max law conference, are those that are inclined to the to the growth mode. And I would say it’s, it’s, it’s ingrained. It’s not that I have a choice, but to try other things and and accept this idea that comes not it doesn’t come so easy this idea but here it is right. If you fail at something It’s not failure, it’s learning. And you got to beat that into your head, or else you will try anymore, you’ll just hold on to what you have. And to me, that’s a terrible way to live.

Tyson Mutrux
You’ve gone a lot of money on training, learning how to do things. I mean, you’ve been through it, right? You’ve been you’ve gone through, you’ve done it yourself, and you’ve spent a lot of money on strategic coach to train you. What is your advice to lawyers just starting out? And whether that’s just at a law school or that they’ve been practicing for 10 years, whatever it may be? What would your advice be?

Jeff Horn
Sure, right, these guys that are coming out guys and gals are coming out now have just spent more like $200,000 on schooling and training and undergrad and, and law school. And they’re probably in fear, like, how am I going to pay that back. And I would tell you, Strategic Coach is cost like 10,000 a year. I’ve also done Sandler sales training, which was a little bit less. That was fantastic. My brand new associate, Jessica Carol CLL. I have her in Sandler sales training. Because, you know, as you guys well now, you’ll learn a lot of issue spotting, and C rack and Iraq and how to write and how to look at statutes and all that jazz when you go to law school. But it has nothing to do with you what you guys teach mindset training, as part of your training, as well as how to stuff. So take the new lawyer, take the free route, first, listen to the podcast, this is an excellent one. And there’s a whole bunch of great ones. Invest in yourself, because your 200 grand is just the tip of the iceberg for what you’re going to spend to keep up. If you believe that robots and AI and technology are going to eat into our businesses, and I’m certain they are, then you’ve got to run a little bit harder than maybe folks from the lawyers from the 60s and 70s. And 80s, the so called Golden Age of the Law practice had to run they had it may be a little bit easier. I have a crazy friend from my gym if I can just digress. And he comes up to me and he goes right in my face. And he says, Jeff, what animal were you? And then he walks away. And he’s pretty. He’s kind of a crazy guy. But I ignored this question. And then later, it came to mesh. And I don’t know what what animal I was, but I know it was a slow animal. Okay. And I know, that animal had to get up early in the morning and start running to keep from being eaten. So if I was a brand new lawyer, I would figure out what animal I was. And I would start running.

Jim Hacking
Jeff, I love it. Now, Tyson for the record, we’ve now gone about 130 Plus episodes, and we just had our first mention of Iraq in Iraq. So really, we’ve been able to go for two plus years without thinking about outlining a case, because that is certainly not something I’ve been in a long time. But I appreciate that. And I think it’s so great that you have young lawyers that you’ve been mentoring and that you have, you know, obviously you have sort of like a global view of things. And I think I think that’s really important for all us and our listeners. But the one thing I wanted to touch on this with my last question is sales, you use the word sales. And I think a lot of lawyers, and not necessarily our listeners, but a lot of lawyers think, well, lawyers are both sales and we don’t have to study sales. And you don’t have to learn about overcoming objections and, you know, sort of take it or leave it if you want to hire me to hire me. If not, I mean, what what sort of tips do you have for listeners when it comes to sales or closing the signup of a case?

Jeff Horn
I have a lot to I’ll try to try to keep it keep it simple, really. People buy for their own reasons. They don’t buy from us because they think we’re so smart. They think we’re going to get them through whatever they’re in the middle of and they think they’re going to be okay on the other side. So what I would do is, try not to be so smart. Pretend like it’s your first day in practice, like you’re a dummy. This is a Sandler sales training, trick. Sell like, You’re a dummy. So when people ask questions, don’t give them a law school answer. If you don’t know the answer, say, I’m not sure but I will find out I will get you the information. Let them talk at least 70% of the time. This is hard for lawyers and lawyer talk 30% of the time. I find that when I do that, people know that I’m listening to them. And I’m really interested in their deal. And since it is their deal and not my deal, and I’m not giving them a lecture on how smart I am or how much law I know or how well I know the judges or any of that jazz, that they feel at ease and whatever your area Your Practice is pi for Tyson, immigration for gym and family and divorce. It’s all about that client looking in your eye and believing that you’re going to make sure it’s okay. So shut up is my main advice to selling

Tyson Mutrux
in the gym. Got it. Shutting up, I’m gonna start to wrap up, Jeff. Before we do, though, a couple things. First, shout out to Nick Ortiz, thanks for the referral. Appreciate it. Second thing is you’re in the Facebook group or great people like Nick and William ed, and Jeff and other people are sharing all their greatest secret tips and tricks and everything else and asking questions, getting feedback, join there, if you don’t mind going to iTunes and giving us a five star review. We really, really, really, really, really appreciate it. Gemini, what is your hack of the week just mentioned

Jim Hacking
earlier that lawyers should think about what animal they are. And five of our friends have announced that their animal is a tiger. They’ve come out with a new book called Tiger tactics. It’s by Jay Ruane Ryan McKean, Billy Trask to Wild Bill you Mansky entry to Degray. And we’re very excited about their book, mine is on its way, I’m sure it’s gonna be chock full of great practical things for our listeners. And we’re gonna have them on the show in a couple of weeks, as many of the authors as we can, we’re gonna do a Facebook Live with him coming up in a couple of weeks. So everyone gets your book, so you can be ready to ask them questions when they come on the show live.

Tyson Mutrux
I’ve gotten bits and pieces of it, my book will arrive this week, too. But I’m in a Slack group with all of them except for Bill, I think I think I don’t think there’s anyone else that’s not in the group. Thankfully, Bill is on the group. And I’m getting to see bits and pieces of it and then also get insights into these individuals. So they’re really freaking smart. I know that Jeff, you mentioned Jay Ruane. But they’re all just brilliant people and brilliant ideas. And they’ve all been giving us bits and pieces of advice on on the conference and things like that. So they know what the hell they’re talking about. So I really recommend you get the book. It’s really, really good.

Jeff Horn
I’m adding you guys because I already got it. I got it on Kindle, you press a button. And next thing No, it’s there. And I read it on the weekend. No, I can’t say enough about about this whole gang, how they support each other five lawyers supporting each other. He does know rivalries, and then you guys really supporting them. So I can’t say enough about that.

Tyson Mutrux
Excellent. You want updates on the Kindle. So tell us your tip of the week, you know the routine to this planet. So what

Jeff Horn
I do so I went to really to the depths of my brain here. So I’m reading a book right now called the courage to be disliked the courage to be disliked. It is written in Japanese translated beautifully into English. And the essentially the spirit of these different groups that were involved in is that you’re not a victim. You’re not in competition with everyone else during competition with yourself to be your best self. Do what you do for your community. And those are just a couple of the highlights from this thing. It’s written student philosopher, so it’s a dialogue. So it really goes back and forth brilliantly. The authors are Hashemi is one last name and Koga because Shimi and Koga. I don’t want to butcher their first names in Japanese. But I can’t say enough about it. And how did I find out about this book, listening to the Tim Ferriss podcast, he interviewed the Shopify founder, Toby looka. And he recommended that book. I got it. And now I’m literally going through it a second time to highlight and annotate because it is fantastic. Good stuff for all the goal, the kind of way you guys and this gang look at life and look at the practice

Tyson Mutrux
of law. Excellent, very good stuff. All right. So Jeff, Jim, do you like money, you’d like money, like it and need it? It’s important, so I’m gonna try and make everyone some more money. So here’s what I want you to do. I want to I want everyone to sit down and write down all the things that you do to generate profit, your profit generating activities, and I want you to then, and I’m sure that Jeff I know that you’re just doing family law now. But you may be may have a thing here or there that that you’re still working on. So I want you to cut your least profitable activity that you’re doing out of your life. So if that’s completely eliminating it fine. If it’s delegating, it’s fine, automating whatever it is, stop doing it because I want you to start doing more profitable things. So then the next week, pick one thing, it can be the smallest thing in the world. It can be something very small but your least profit generating activities and just get rid of it. Do you have more time to work on the more profit generating activities? Neil? Neil, Jim deal, Jeff.

Jeff Horn
Deal. That’s That’s great advice. Thank you, Tyson.

Jim Hacking
When you said you had to make some money, I thought you were in tell us all the mail you $100

Tyson Mutrux
Let’s do that, too. I’ll leave some sort of flavor in here. Not going to guarantee any results. No, yes. If you’ll send me $100 I’m not going to give it back to you though. Jeff, thank you so much. This has been a lot of fun. It’s me telling you experience on a podcast because you got your own podcast. So for everyone else, make sure you check out just podcast Jeff, what’s the name of it and how they get a hold of you.

Jeff Horn
The bold sidebar is the name of the podcast and for iTunes listeners. It’s that easy to bold sidebar for non iTunes people buzz sprout is the host for the bold sidebar. Thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate it. Enjoyed it.

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