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Making a Go of It w/ Ryan Anderson 443
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LET'S PARTNER UP AND MAXIMIZE YOUR FIRM

In today’s episode, Jim and Tyson chat with Ryan Anderson! They dive into the journey all about Filevine. If you’re interested in learning more about what they’re doing to improve, changes being made, and what’s to come, check out this week’s episode.

As a former litigator, Ryan designed Filevine with the end-user in mind, focusing on unlocking customer and user efficiency by optimizing automation of technology. Today, rated as one of the top automation tools for legal work for a diverse range of organizations by size and function, Filevine is on a continual path of growth. Ryan led Filevine’s acquisition of both Lead Docket, the top lead intake management solution for law firms, and Outlaw, the most innovative contract and document platform on the market. 

In 2020, Ryan was named a CEO of the Year by Utah Business. Ryan is a proud husband and father of 6 children and resides in Salt Lake City, Utah. Ryan earned his law degree from Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah. His goal is to provide a comprehensive solution to business leaders in search of a workflow transformation solution.

3:04 CEO of Filevine

7:05 law firms and businesses

11:20 that can be a challenge

16:26 features I can point to

20:06 I genuinely care

25:42 new category for legal software

28:07 we’re excited to show people

Jim’s Hack: Check out Storytelling with Data: A Data Visualization Guide for Business Professionals by Cole Nussbaumer Knaflic. It’s all about how to tell your story and convey information to clients, especially to your team all by using data in ways you’re not used to looking at data.

Ryan’s Tip: Check out The Overstory by Richard Powers. It’s a great fiction novel about trees.

 Tyson’s Tip: Take the challenge and try to drink a gallon of water a day. It does incredible things for your body! 

Watch the podcast here

Join the Guild: www.maxlawguild.com

 

Resources:

Transcript: Making a Go of It with Ryan Anderson

Ryan Anderson
This is Ryan Anderson. I am the CEO of foul line from Salt Lake City. And this is the maximum lawyer podcast.

Tyson Mutrux
Well, Jim, that was what I would consider to be a fantastic episode.

Jim Hacking
I mean, I ended the episode with my exposition on why I like file bind and why I respect Ryan so much. I mean, I just think he’s so down to earth. And, you know, I spent a weekend with a bunch of CEOs of tech startups and he is the most down to earth that I’ve met. He seems like a regular person in the old George Bush nomenclature, the kind of guy you’d like to go have a beer with. Just real practical. I think he’s really listening. When you and I were giving suggestions, he was actually taking notes about ways to improve the product when he was at the conference, and we went over our 99 things to stop doing. He was writing down notes. I think he’s, he’s just a stellar individual. And it’s a it’s a great company.

Tyson Mutrux
Did you say many he stayed until the end, and he texted me after the 99 problems presentation, and he was like, this was just amazing. Like, he just, he was blown away by it. And I think it’s just so fantastic. He’s willing to learn he’s willing to listen, Bob is willing to listen. We sound like we’re fanboys, but it’s just gonna be like the product play. I feel like we selling Brian key now. It’s

Jim Hacking
never, you never reach Ryan McKean levels of fanboy them. But I did. I did want to ask him about those questions that people are complaining about, about the outages and about the onboarding. And it sounds as as I figured that they were they were addressing both of those in big ways.

Tyson Mutrux
Well, it’s interesting. I had not heard many complaints recently. I don’t know if you’ve noticed that too late. There’s not been a lot of complaints about the onboarding. And I figured they figured something out. And it sounds like they have so enjoy the episode. Everyone listened to it for the business advice is so good, healthy, enjoy.

Speaker 4
Run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum layer podcast, podcast, your hosts, Jim hacking and Tyson metrics. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm.

Jim Hacking
Welcome to the show. Welcome back to the maximum lawyer Podcast. I’m Jim

Tyson Mutrux
hacking, and I’m tasting new tricks. What’s up, Jimmy?

Jim Hacking
I can’t think of a better way to end our day of recording multiple podcasts, especially a week after seeing him on stage. Our guest today is the one and only Ryan Anderson of file line. Ryan, how are you sir?

Ryan Anderson
I’m good. Nice to see you both Jim and Tyson. So I enjoyed Max lock on by the way. It was fantastic. And I had some great barbecue at a at a restaurant just outside the hotel. I’m trying to remember the name of it. Hickson maybe could that be right, something like that. Anyway, was fantastic. Awesome. Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux
Nice. Well, I’ll tell you, I would not be amazing without fava. So thank you for the sponsorship of file by and it’s what made it happen. So really, really appreciate it. But so we’ve had you on a few times now. But I guess when you tell people who you are, they don’t know who you are already.

Ryan Anderson
Yeah, yeah. So I am the CEO of file line. I have been doing this job for a little over seven years now. We launched in March of 2015. Before that, I practice law, mostly personal injury, predominantly personal injury, although I did do some class action, labor law work specifically around like misclassification cases, and build file line right out of my need to kind of run my firm better. And so that’s where it came from. And but after, after working on it for 18 months to two years decided, hey, you know, I think my friends seem to like this thing. And it seems to work well for me. And so I decided to make a go of it. And I’ve been doing this full time now for several years.

Jim Hacking
Earlier today, Tyson and I were talking and he was trying to get his mind around the idea of either stopping practice law and focusing more on his firm versus, you know, going all in on being the litigator. I can’t imagine running a law firm and starting a piece of software. But what advice do you have for Tyson and the other people in the Guild and the overall big group who are wondering how do I juggle and how do I decide?

Ryan Anderson
Oh, well, for sure, I couldn’t do without partners, Tyson, there’s, you know, the firm has long since been taken over by great partners who are partners of mine and have made it work. There’s a lot of folks over there. But yeah, I mean, it can’t be done solo, there’s no question about that. So it’s a large support group of people that helped make something like that happen. I could start naming names, but it would be a very long list. Because it the reality is it takes a lot of people who supported me and my journey. And so I would surround yourself with those kinds of people if you’re trying to make that kind of a transition. And lastly, I would also say like it’s, it’s not easy. You know, there’s, it takes time, right? You can’t exit yourself completely from one thing one day to the next. It takes time and a transition period and I think you should be forgiving with yourself. I think sometimes we sort of kind of pretend as if The only true way to do it is go whole hog and cut yourself off immediately from whatever your former life was. And if you’re not doing that, well, gosh, you’re just not being tough enough about this decision and you’re not going in headfirst. Gosh, that that’s really unrealistic. And I think about idea, you know, a steady drawdown of the old thing, and a steady uptick of the new thing, I think, is the right way to do it. Although it is challenging, but I think it’s the right way to do it. And, and it makes sense. You know, somebody asked me kind of when When did you feel comfortable leaving the practice of law? And I would say, when we had product market fit it fine. And what I mean by that is, the product could sell itself pretty well. And I didn’t need to wonder, Oh, my gosh, is this gonna work? I knew that, that we had enough good things going on with the product that it was going to be something how big and how impactful it was going to be? That was very much an open question. And still is right. I’m still working on it every day. But I knew I had product market fit. I knew flatline was, was going to be successful to some degree, I would say that’s how you should look at it that seemed dividing line. I mean, you know, in tech, it’s product market fit. But, but really, you know, that’s a nice concept for professionals who are going from one professional arena, maybe from being a litigator to a CEO, once you realize that the new thing you’re doing maybe CEO of your law firm is something that you want to do full time and you think the firm can kind of manage without you then I would make that shift more forcefully. But until then I would I would take your time and get things put in place.

Tyson Mutrux
So at max law con 2021, you you spoke about building a rockstar executive team, and I just as soon as you You did it, I latched on to it. And you just mentioned like the partners with your own law firm, would you say you built the law firm the same way that you that you built, finalized with the executive team built out? Or is Do you think that that’s different? Do you think you should do it in a different manner?

Ryan Anderson
I think it’s quite a bit different. I think it’s quite a bit different. If I’m being honest, you know, there are some really important similarities between law firms and businesses that I think lawyers often overlook, and to their detriment. And I think Max Lachlan is really good at pointing those out. But we should be honest and clear eyed about some of the differences, which are pretty significant. at a law firm, a very large part of the value comes from the people who are actually doing the work and working the cases. And the talents that you build up over a period of time, are just so much more. So Tyson, I’m sure you’re much better and faster and more effective litigator than you were 510 years ago. And I’m sure that same is true in your immigration practice, Jim and so you know, the speed with which you can act, and the impact that you can make in a in a short period of time for your clients. That’s that’s a skill and a craft that you build up? And is it to some degree, personal to lawyer, and that is quite a bit different in a in a business that sells a product? There are executives that come in that that really have no, I’ve never worked in legal, right. Most of our executives have never worked in legal our CFO has never worked in legal, our head of sales has never worked in legal, they don’t know anything about lawyers except what they’ve learned to follow on. And so it is it is a little bit more interchangeable in that regard. So I think it is different, I think it’s a little bit different. Well, last

Jim Hacking
year, when I went to legal X, I was quite surprised and really excited about the fact that you guys were making lots of changes to the software and that the changes that you were making were in response to feedback from customers a file mine specifically, I’m thinking about the drag and drop with the documents, which our team just loves. But there were a bunch of things that I know you guys listened, and then fixed. And a lot of times software companies don’t always do that. And I want to ask you about two things that that we hear about a lot. And you know, you’re not going to find many fans of firewind more than us. But the two things that are on people’s radar right now. And I asked my team saying I was going to be talking to you on the podcast. One is the sort of outages that we’ve been seeing with software. And then the other one, the real one is the onboarding, how long it’s taking to get people on, people love the product, people are dying to use it. And then it just takes a really long time to get them onto the platform. And what are you guys doing to help fix those things?

Ryan Anderson
Yeah, let’s start with the outages. Certainly, those are just foundational. And if we can’t deliver a stable reliable product to our customers, then we’re failing sort of job one. And so that’s a very big deal to me. So I’ll just tell you what we’re doing to address it. But but for for context. fireline has something on the order of over 99% uptime any year. Now, when we’re out in the middle of the day on a Wednesday for an hour, which I think happened several weeks ago. It sure doesn’t feel like that right? So you know, I completely understand it during peak hours to be down is just gonna feel absolutely awful. If it makes you feel any better. It feels awful to 100% of the people here during that time and everyone kind of can’t breathe until that gets fixed. So but we are doing things to address it. So a lot lot of it is just a scale issue. So I’ll get into the weeds a little bit here, probably more than I should. But I’m going to go ahead and do it because I figure you’re crowd and this, this community is a little bit more tech forward than most. So file mine was built in 2015 on an original architecture, that was really great up to a certain number of customers. And as we continue to grow there, there are definitely different ways we would have built the architecture. And for customers that have come on board in the last year or two, definitely the last 18 months, they’re on new architecture, and to be perfectly candid, that architecture is more reliable and faster. But the old architecture still houses the vast majority of our customer base, all new customers are going on to the new architecture, and it’s just in a much better place. But we are working on ways to get the new the old customers onto the new architecture as soon as possible. In the meantime, there are simple fixes we can make to just basically kind of ramp up or kind of put more fuel on the on the fire to make sure that Vaughn can handle the press have the day to day needs that it gets. So you know, when there’s 1000 law firms on our first set of architecture are probably closer to 1500. And it’s the middle of a Wednesday, and everyone’s jamming on it and the API calls are hitting it left and right. That can be a challenge. But there are things we can do with the servers to kind of ramp up and make sure that it doesn’t happen during the day like that. And we’ve done a bunch of those things. In fact, yesterday, I know we added eight web servers to file line. So file line should feel quite a bit faster today than it did even a couple of days ago. And we just find ourselves having to continue to do those things on our old architecture until we can get our kind of legacy users moved over to the new stuff. So I wish the answer weren’t that and I hate to make the people who’ve been with us the longest be in the worst position, but we’re moving them over as fast as possible.

Jim Hacking
Oh, it’s all good. And you know, when we had that outage on that Wednesday, we got everybody on to zoom, and we did a piano man sing around. So it was good. Brian, what about the

Ryan Anderson
onboarding? Yeah, so we actually have pretty significant thing to discuss on that front. And by the way, if you know, your listeners probably already know this about you. But this was not planned. Like I didn’t, you know, I didn’t know you guys are gonna ask me this question.

Jim Hacking
I’m sorry for throwing it at you.

Ryan Anderson
I need Oh, no, no, but I’m just trying to Yeah, what I’m about to say is actually a pretty significant thing. And so, so your, your community’s gonna hear it first, as they often do. So about six months ago, file line made the strategic decision to onboard fewer and fewer of our customers ourselves, and instead utilize partners throughout the legal tech community to do that onboarding. And gosh, the response has been just through the roof of partners who’ve decided to do that. So there’s companies all over the country now that do this for us. There’s a company called bespoke Ian, I’m going to miss some bit vine degrade vine skills, on coretec, legal doves, I’m hoping I’m hitting all the ones that currently do them fuel digital. Anyway, there’s, there’s a red pepper is another. So the ones who didn’t get named are gonna be mad at me. But there’s several of these companies that are now taking on the work of onboarding our customers, because the reality is, we just can’t hire enough people to do it ourselves. It’s just it would be physically impossible. FileBound would have to have three times the number of implementers that we have today, we’d have that it’d be four fifths of the company in numbers. And so it just doesn’t make sense. So instead of training individual people to implement customers, what we do now is train partners to implement customers. And what we found is that that is working a lot better for a bunch of reasons, our business is building software. That’s what we do every single day. That’s what we’re committed to doing. That’s what I think about, I can tell you, and I think most people sort of know this about me, but I think about file line all the time, to a degree that is probably unhealthy. And mostly what I’m thinking about is how can we make it better. But that’s and then we’ve gotten really good at making good software. But we’re not nearly as good at it being sort of IT folks who help people set up software. And that’s just not our business model. So if you were to buy file line today, you would not get implemented by file line, you would get implemented by a file line partner that you choose. And we’ve noticed significant increases in sort of the customer happiness through that journey with partners. So really excited to kind of let the world know that we’ve never really announced it, but that is that’s what we’ve been doing. So to give you a sense, last month, I think the large majority of our deals that are were sort of larger scales, what would consider a mid market or an enterprise sized law firm, the majority of those all signed up to be implemented by partners. So that’s how it’s mostly happening now.

Tyson Mutrux
I mean, it’s a brilliant idea. It’s something that Infusionsoft Jim and I are really familiar with how they onboard people and I don’t know if they’re still doing it that way, but they relied heavily on partners and that’s how they onboard people was through partner so it’s A brilliant idea. My question is actually similar to that you made a big announcements over last week at the conference, which was pretty awesome. I’ll let you say what that is in a second. But the question is more about the r&d part of things. I mean, you all are constantly developing new ideas. And it’s, it’s, you’re constantly changing. It’s really interesting thing about I was mentioning, I had mentioned to you a long time ago. And I’m not saying that you did it, because I asked you, but I’d asked you a while ago about like a button where you could copy the address right inside the contact card. And that exists now. And I don’t know if he did it, because the feedback from people or you’ll just did because you knew something that was necessary. But it’s really interesting to see how you will constantly you get feedback, and then you implement these things, I’m sure that you get a lot of terrible ideas, too. So how do you maintain that constant, like philosophy of developing the product, making it better, because you can look at I’m not going to mention them, there are software’s out there that look the exact same way they did 10 years ago, like it is with minor minor tweaks to it, right? It’s kind of crazy how they never develop, and it just stays the same. So how do you maintain that? Because that is not an easy thing to maintain?

Ryan Anderson
Oh, my gosh. So first, I appreciate you saying that. And actually, Tyson, I think I remember you telling me that. And I do think it may well have come from me, because you know, I meet with the product team all the time. And I think it’s actually quite likely that that made its way to me and then into the product.

Tyson Mutrux
Because I remember us just saying that to make you feel good. But that’s fine. No, I

Ryan Anderson
can tell you, there are definitely features I can point to where you know, a customer was very persuasive, and what we should do when we did it. But let me just start by saying it’s sort of counterintuitive. And this is something I had no idea before I started this journey software, it gets harder to build, the more software you build. And it sort of makes sense. When you think about it, if you build a feature, that first feature you build, you feel really great. You’re like, Man, this was really easy. I don’t know why all software companies can’t build a feature in a day or two. Because you can go really fast on that first feature, or two or three. But every feature you build has to work with every other feature you build, you know, I had a we had a customer, we’re actually going to release pretty soon, oh, gosh, I better not get ahead of my marketing team. But we’re releasing an improvement. That wasn’t too it’s not too significant. But I think everyone will really like hearing that in the next week or two. And that came came directly from a customer who really wanted it. And it made a bunch of sense to us. So we did it, and it’s ready to go. And that customer is like well, all you need is this little indication in this one area. Fine. It should be easy. And you start saying well, no, when you search, you’re also gonna want to see that indication that Oh, yeah. And then like, Oh, hey, well, when you want to report, you’re gonna want to see it there too. Yeah, we’ll want to see it there, too. You probably don’t want to see it in Project hub. Yeah, we’ll want to see it in Project hub. Oh, how about like, you know, the contact card? We want to see that? Oh, well, yeah, that’s gotta be in the contact card. And I mean, every time you kind of see it, like it permeates the system, almost everything you do. So these things are just way harder than I ever thought. And everything’s got to work together. So software gets harder to build, the more software you build, I’ll say this to you and Jim have a relentless focus on making yourselves and your firms better. And that was really evident a max law con, which, by the way, was was something like a religious experience at the end was just so cool. But everyone there was so eager to improve. And I think that’s because they’re owners, and I’m an owner, I own file mine, and I care about it in those same way you all care about your law firms. And so, so a lot of that, I think, is founder drive. I think when you see these, these companies get purchased by PE shops, nothing wrong with that. But it’s just hard for me to imagine that a private equity investor is going to bring the same level of passion and intensity to growth in that way, especially when they haven’t experienced the problems that I’ve personally experienced. Also see this, we have when we announced our raise, there was some discussion on one of the on one of the blogs, I think it was was either the Facebook group, or maybe even your group. And somebody in the group said, I wonder how much of that raise is going to new salespeople. And, you know, I try and stay away from these things, obviously, that that’s probably not a good place for me to be. But the reality is file vine probably spends two to 3x the amount of money on development than we do on sales. It’s way, way more we may we may spend too much for the size of our company if I’m being honest. But it’s because I as a founder, I’m so intensely sort of driven by delivering a good experience to our users. So I can tell you, the engineering department is by far not even close, the most costly, I guess, the most expensive division in the company by far, because that’s what we care about. So a lot of it’s just a question of resources. The very last thing I’ll say is, I think we’ve tried to hire people, you know, I’m sure both of you and for the law firms that are part of Max law con they, the best ones, the best lawyers care about their clients, like legitimately care about their clients. I heard Jim say something that stuck with me at the conference. He said, You know, if you’re giving this advice to immigrants, yeah, they may not use you, but you should still care about immigrants. And I thought like, this is genuine care, I genuinely care that somebody’s life become a little bit easier because of a product that I had something to do with. And I think that people who work here generally do, you know, I think we really try and solve for that in the hiring process, we try and find curious people who are passionate about the problem, even if they didn’t come from legal and I hope that’s reflected in the way we we go about solving these problems.

Jim Hacking
Running your own practice can be scary, whether you’re worried about where the next case will come from. Feeling like you’re losing control of your growing firm or frustrated from being out of touch with everyone working under your license, the stress can be overwhelming, we will show you how to turn that fear into the driving force of clarity, focus, stability, and confidence that eliminates the roller coaster of guilt ridden second guessing and mistake making to get you off that hamster wheel for good.

Tyson Mutrux
Maximum lawyer and minimum time is a step by step playbook that shows you how to identify what your firm needs and how to proactively get it at every stage of the game. You’re prepped and excited for the inevitable growth that will follow. Name the lifestyle that you want. And we’ll show you how to become a maximum lawyer and minimum time. Find out more by going to maximum lawyer.com forward slash course.

Jim Hacking
Your list listening to the maximum lawyer podcast Our guest today is the CEO of firewire and Mr. Ryan Anderson. As long as we’re making product improvement plugs, I have a little one of my Go ahead. And yeah, I’m always trying to copy and paste the file vine at Mater address, you know that email address? And if there was a little copy button, so I didn’t have to highlight it on my phone and just could copy it and then go paste it into an email that would be

Ryan Anderson
Can I ask you a quick follow up? Sure. Are you on the Outlook plugin? Are you on Outlook?

Jim Hacking
No, I’m just I just use it the Chrome extension or you know, like I’m talking about on my phone? I don’t use on your phone. Okay. Yeah.

Ryan Anderson
Are you a user or an outlook user? Gmail? So we have a mobile Gmail plugin. It’s free. It’s available right now you can download it. You should you should at least try that. But your ideas are really good one. So I will

Jim Hacking
Yeah, no, that’s great. So speaking of surrounding yourself with good people and spending money on the great talent, I was in the back of the room before you spoke, and I was talking to Cain Eliot. So Tyson, I don’t know if you know, Kane story. But this guy is a PhD, he was teaching at the University of Penn and Ivy League school. And he found himself working three days a week. So he decided to intern at an insurance defense firm on asbestos. And basically, he organized all their files and systematize, the whole law firm from top to bottom, on a part time job that he was doing literally at the start for 15 bucks an hour just for fun. I mean, this guy is clearly a genius. And I was talking to my, I introduced him to my son, because my son is getting his degree in English and in computer science. And those two, literally, were talking over my head. And it was it was great. So I mean, he’s brilliant. So I know that you’re bringing in really, really smart people. And so talk to us a little bit more about that. Ryan, if you would about just surrounding yourself with people that just think differently.

Ryan Anderson
Yeah. So look, if I’m good at anything, we talked about this, I think I’m a pretty good recruiter. But also, I have absolutely no problem with the idea that there are a lot of people in this world who are better than me at almost everything. Even recruiting where I think I’m more effective than some I can tell you, our head of recruiting is way better at recruiting than me, I don’t know that there’s a single job here that I do that there’s not somebody here, who does it better, not a single one. And so I am just not, I’m just completely okay with the idea that I’m going to walk into a room and maybe, maybe I’m not even close to the smartest person in that room. And you know, that can be scary for a lot of people. I think I’ve definitely seen that where, where people say, gosh, you know, are they gonna outshine me? Or are they going to, you know, steal my clients or my customers? Or are they going to steal my ideas, which is about the dumbest thing you can think but I man, that doesn’t bother me at all. I just consider myself super lucky to be around really smart people. And I find myself just just kind of doing what it takes to bring them in the door and gather them around me because first of all, it makes me so much better. I’m a much better person for being around people like Kane, Elliot, and you’re absolutely right about him. But I just I got a million things I can fix with myself. Everyone who knows me knows that. But ego about about kind of bringing in people who are smarter than me and better than me in other areas. I don’t think that’s one of my issues. I think I’m pretty good at that.

Tyson Mutrux
I love it. Jim, I want to give you a tip. So what we’ll solve your issue with your phone thing, right? So if you will create a zap. So we have our files when they’re created, go into a new case phase. And then once it gets dragged into intake phase, we actually create a zap that takes that information, including that email address and pushes it creates a Gmail contact. And so we can actually just start on my phone I can start typing In the like, we rename all of our clients first name, last name and the net project, Stefan DICOM. So we just I started typing in their name and it pops up automatically. They don’t have to copy anything. So just a little, little workaround. All right. So we want to be respectful of your time, Ryan, honestly, I could talk to you for like another hour and a half, because I’m really enjoying this chat, give a plug for file and like, give us give us your best plug for file vine, and then we’ll we’ll start to wrap things up.

Ryan Anderson
Yeah, so if you’ve looked at us in the past, and thought, Gosh, I don’t know if it’s, for me, what I would tell you is, there are things that our software is going to do over the next six months that I just think will put us in a new category for legal software in in how lawyers handle documents and how they draft documents, and how they interact with the knowledge that’s within their firm. File vine took the idea of of what lawyers do on a day to day basis. And instead of kind of trying to copy what some other system has done, and simply make it new or put it in the cloud, we tried to just kind of take a beginner’s mindset and start from the beginning. And so file line looks different, it feels different, it doesn’t look like another case management software. And that’s largely due to the fact that we think we we solved a bunch of problems from the ground up that you don’t even know you have, for instance, like email and task management, that may not be the first thing you look for in a case management system. But I can promise you those things like email management, for lawyers who are getting to 300 emails a day is so important. And so you will see dividends on your time that you never even imagined you you were missing, if you look at our software and implement it the right way. So I think you’re going to get an industry leading product that will change your firms in ways that you haven’t even thought about yet. And you have got a founder leading that company who really cares about your success as a law firm owner?

Tyson Mutrux
Great. So you did not make the announcement, you were talking and doing amazing, like done and other amazing other things. But you announced job at the conference. So you want to tell what that is? Good. Yeah.

Ryan Anderson
And I say John is probably like, we should probably consider it a codename. I’ve got my marketing people saying that we don’t know if it’s gonna be called John yet. But um, so yeah, file line is kind of in beta stages of a voice assistant. So you can literally have a voice interface with five line, you can make a task, you can even search for a project via a voice interface within five line, we are super excited about it. I personally use it all the time already. I wake up in the middle of the night, and I think about something I need to do, and I make a jot. And so we demoed it at max law con, anybody can see the video there. But we’re super excited about it, we think it’s really going to revolutionize how people input their time how people make tasks for themselves and make tasks for others. We just don’t want a lawyer to ever have to say to themselves, Oh, my goodness, I didn’t do that thing. And I just forgot. That is the worst feeling in the world. It’s just it’s an unforced error. And sometimes those unforced errors can be really costly to you and your clients. And we don’t want that to happen. And we think jot can pick up those unforced errors, those things you just forgot to do. And get them into file line where you won’t forget to do it. So we’re excited to show people

Tyson Mutrux
love it. Okay, I’m going to make my pitch for a feature. I would love a kanban style board for my tasks. That’s what I want.

Ryan Anderson
That’s, that is a popular request. I’m writing it down.

Tyson Mutrux
Very cool. All right. While you’re writing that down, I’m gonna wrap things up. That way we can get you out of here. I want to remind everyone to go to the Facebook group. And listen, if you don’t if you need a case management system, sign up for firelight, I’m telling you, it is the best one out there I have because of because of Gemini having this podcast, I’ve gotten to tour and visit and see the ins and outs of a lot of different products. It’s the best in the market, bar none. But if you want to join us in the Facebook group, join us there a lot of great people, they’re talking about filebot and other case management systems. On a more high level conversation, join us in the guild go to max law guild.com. And while you’re listening to the rest of this episode, if you don’t mind leaving us a five star review. We would greatly appreciate it. Jimbo, what’s your eigenlijk?

Jim Hacking
Man, they’re probably people. They’re probably people listening to this podcast thinking that we’re saying all these great things about file vine, because Ryan’s on the show and because they sponsored the conference, that’s actually not true. If I if I thought it was a ship product, I would say with a ship product. I wouldn’t take his money. But I wouldn’t I would call it like I see it. And for those of you who don’t know, Tyson and I started the maximum lawyer podcast with the goal of being Infusionsoft resellers. That was that’s what we thought we thought that lawyers could build their practice on Infusionsoft. Infusionsoft was a piece of sales software. That was really cool and had some really cool features, one of which looks an awful lot, a lot like the file vine feed. That was one of the main things we loved about Infusionsoft was that you could keep track of one case and all the notes and everybody could share them that there was another legal software that you can do that at the time. So we thought that we were gonna start this podcast and we were going to convince all these lawyers to start using Infusionsoft to run their law firms. Well, guess what? We just picked the wrong software. Right? We did. Stick around software we didn’t, we didn’t know about file line at the time. I mean, it was it was sort of around the time that file mine started. So we are honest brokers, we call like we see it. And we everything that we’ve said here, I mean, file, Vine has changed the way that my law firm is run. And we have taken over other law firms that were using Google Sheets, and storing everybody’s documents in people’s emails. So I’ve seen the real world effects of working with a really powerful piece of software. So take that for what you will. My hack of the week is a book, it’s called storytelling with data, I got the audio version, it’s on Audible. And it’s about how you can tell your story and convey information to clients especially or to your team, all by using data in ways that are maybe not the way you’re used to looking at data. Good stuff.

Tyson Mutrux
That’s great. Really good stuff. And I echo everything you just said about Flatbed or good. Ryan, we always ask and you hopefully you know this by now we’ve had you on a couple times where it was asked for a tip or hack of the week, do you have a tip or hack course

Ryan Anderson
I do. So I’m gonna make a plug for for fiction. There’s a lot of great books on how to run your business. I am a reader of fiction, I find that fiction can tell me more about myself in the world, and then often a great self help book can do. And I have got one that I absolutely loved. I think it’s a few years old. It’s called the overstory by Richard powers, and it is basically a story about trees. But it is really good. And I have never looked at trees the same way since it’s a novel. It’s a fiction novel. But boy, I just thought it was absolutely excellent that I’ve quoted the team, it’s in many places. And I just think it’s a an incredibly well written book. It’s there’s an impactful plot and narrative to it. But it also has quite a bit of science and intrigue, around kind of nature, and specifically, the amazing trees that are all around us that we don’t even notice every day. So that’s my, my hack.

Tyson Mutrux
That’s cool. This is somewhat only somewhat related. So I’m going to mention this probably every every podcast until the 75 days are up. But I started 75 Hard. Now this is the fourth day. And Amy and I went on a walk at lunch cuz we have to do 245 minute workouts and one of them has to be outside. So we will walk in. She said Hey, she was kind of joking. Like, hey, it wasn’t there was a magnolia tree. She says, Hey, let’s stop and smell the magnolia tree. And it smelled. So it’s like, one of the things I don’t think I’ve ever smelled the flower on a magnolia tree before but they smell amazing, right? And it was just like, it was like this like aha moment like, like I should stop and do and pay attention to what I’m doing. Like on a daily basis. Like Why have I never done this. So that made me think of that. So it’s really cool. And my tip is also related 75 heart. So something I’ve been doing is you have to drink a gallon of water a day. And it sounds like so much water. And it really is not. It’s actually easier than you think. But I can tell you, my by I feel so much better by drinking water like it is. It’s amazing. It’s a wake up call for like how dehydrated I’ve been over the last 39 years of my life. So I recommend like try drinking a gallon of water a day just start early. And it’s way easier you might think so that’s my tip of the way down the water. So from time to time if our Ryan, I am not just saying this, I promise I promise you this is true. This is one of already one of my favorite episodes. It’s really cool. The more I get to talk to you, the more I like you, the more like file vine it is just it’s really cool. Because like we started this six years ago, and like I haven’t met I met you probably maybe four years ago, three, four years ago. But seeing your growth has been really cool. Even from seeing you speak last year at max law con right like I can see the difference in your ability to speak. I think I even said to Jim’s like he must be getting speaking classes or something because he’s really, really good. So it’s really cool to watch you grow, watch fall by and grow. It’s so great. So just thank you so much.

Ryan Anderson
Thank you both love you guys in the community and so glad to be part of it. Thanks.

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