In this episode, Jim and Tyson have Bernard Nomberg from The Nomberg Law Firm as a guest. They will go over his practice, how the family business works, their marketing strategies and challenges in a town that requires them to stand out.
A family business with 100 years of experience!
Bernard runs the firm alongside his brother and partner David, but before them, his father Joel did. Now Joel is happily retired and Of Counsel.
The Law Firm: https://www.nomberglaw.com/
Nomberg Law Live and Video Strategies
A weekly show that airs through Facebook Live every Tuesday at 10am CT, 8am PT in which Bernard brings on different guests to talk about whatever it is that is their specialty. To watch Nomberg Law Live go to Facebook and like The Nomberg Law Firm: https://www.facebook.com/NombergLawFirm/
The idea is to branch out a little bit and have more variety. But, if you want to see Bernard talking about workers compensation law you can go to his Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZZ7l9auCk5DeJDe76VkeUA
“Just start. Just practice”
As a rehearsal you can do offline videos just to see how you sound like and look like.
“I do videos to try to humanize who I am as a lawyer, cause I think a lot of folks who don’t deal with lawyers they tend to be a little afraid to talk with them. I just gotta show that I am a guy just like them!”
Stand Out!
“As a 2 man firm we can’t compete with the billboards and the TV attorneys; thos big firms. So we have shifted our marketing to the social media, the internet…”
“Just be yourself. People can see through that, if you are being someone else, if you are trying to impress, if you are trying to be something that you are not. Those clients, those friends of the firm, the opposing counsel, the judges, they see through that in a heartbeat… That should be enough with all the learning that you have, with who you know, what you know, the bookmarks… All of that ought to be enough for you to be successful”
Max Law Con: May 17th and 18th
http://maxlawcon.maximumlawyer.com/
Hacking’s Hack:
A book that actually popped up in the Facebook Group: “The Complete Guide to Law Firm Intake: Powerful Strategies To Maximize Retention and Increase Revenue” by Gary P Falkowitz
https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Guide-Law-Firm-Intake/dp/1946203262
“So many lawyers spend so much money on getting the phone to ring, but we all do a pretty poor job, or not a good job as we think that we do, on actually conversion.”
Bernard’s Tip:
Everyone’s time is precious. Including those who are calling your office for advice. And I think that listening is the most important thing an attorney can do when he picks up the phone and talks to a client, they just wanna be heard, whether it’s one minute or thirty minutes.
Tyson’s Tip:
If you are not comfortable with video, record a 1 minute video about anything you wanna do and post it to the Maximum Lawyer Group. That way you could get feedback from us and members of the group on it so you can get better.
//
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Transcripts: Run a Family Business and Stand Out
Bernard Nonnberg
But as a two man firm, just like most of the folks who who do the kind of work we do, we can’t compete with the billboards and the TV attorneys, those big firms. So we really have shifted our marketing, to social media to the internet to what I call grassroots.
Unknown Speaker
Run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum layer podcast, podcast, your hosts, Jim hacking and Tyson metrics. Let’s partner up and maximize your phone.
Jim Hacking
Welcome to the show. Welcome back to the maximum lawyer Podcast. I’m Jim hacking.
Tyson Mutrux
And I’m tasting metrics. We got a pretty damn awesome guest today. I’m pretty excited about for the show. So move forward. Get to that though. How’re you doing?
Jim Hacking
I’m good. I just got back from Las Vegas. We went out and celebrated my parents 50th wedding anniversary, they got remarried in the chapel. And then Elvis showed up and played four or five songs. It was a total blast.
Tyson Mutrux
It’s fantastic. So I didn’t tell you I was gonna do this. So you’re in front of the computer. Yeah. Alright, so I want you to Google matrix Feeny Clayton. I want you to tell me, I want you to tell listeners, how many Google reviews I have. And I’m only I’m telling you right now, I’m doing this only this show that I have more than you now.
Jim Hacking
I’m gonna punch you in the face. But it looks like you have 187
Tyson Mutrux
That’s right. That’s right. So you got some work to do. Anyway, you want to introduce our guests.
Jim Hacking
I’m so excited to have our guests on today. Although our listeners can’t tell I’m actually wearing pants. So it’s that big of a show. Our friend Bernard Nonnberg of the Nonnberg law firm in Alabama is on the show. Bernard, thanks so much for being with us.
Bernard Nonnberg
Good morning, fellas. I appreciate you inviting me on.
Tyson Mutrux
overnights just introduce yourself and tell them what you do and where you’re located.
Bernard Nonnberg
Sure. I’m Bernard Nonnberg. And my brother David and I have the Nonnberg law firm. We’re located in Birmingham, Alabama. And our father Joel, who’s happily retired is of counsel with us. So we’d like to say we have about 100 years of workers comp experience representing folks throughout the state of Alabama. And I’ve was born in Baltimore, Maryland, but have grown up in the state of Alabama and happily lived in Birmingham since the mid 90s. And Bernard I know that you are an accomplished athlete. You play football at Vanderbilt University. You’re
Jim Hacking
the quarterback. Isn’t that right?
Bernard Nonnberg
I did play at Vanderbilt. I was one of the quarterbacks but yeah, I was. I was on scholarship at Vanderbilt in the late in the late 80s.
Jim Hacking
And Bernard so talk to us a little bit about were you destined to be a lawyer because of your dad? Was that something that you always thought you were going to do? It’s funny because I have three sons. And one of them is really gung ho to want to be a lawyer. So I’m wondering sort of what that was like for you as a young man thinking about going to law school.
Bernard Nonnberg
Jim, I too have two brothers. So there’s three, three brothers and our family and we kind of all grew up in dad’s law practice. And Dothan our city that we grew up in is in the southeast corner of the state, just north of Tallahassee, Florida. And it’s not a small sleepy town anymore. There’s probably 100,000 people in the county, but Dad was, was a solo practitioner for many years doing worker’s compensation, employment related cases, domestic relations cases and the like. And just watching how he treated people and was able to fix their problems, or at least make their situations a little bit better. Always struck a real real chord with me and with my our youngest brother, David, who’s my law partner. And I just enjoyed watching and seeing the difference he was making in the lives of others. And that really planted the seed that ultimately led me to law school and practicing the way I am now.
Tyson Mutrux
Bernard, he has something that’s it’s pretty cool. I watch it every once in a while. It’s called Nonnberg. Law live, and you have it linked on your website to talk a little bit about what that is and how it helps your firm.
Bernard Nonnberg
Sure, sure. Actually, Jim was one of one of my guests a few months ago, and I appreciate Jim spending some time and coming on with me. It’s a weekly show that were run through Facebook Live. And that’s where we we produce there, put the show out. And every Tuesday at 10am, Central 8am Pacific, I bring on a different guest to talk about whatever it is, that is their specialty. One week, it’ll be lawyers or a lawyer. The next week, it’ll be a community leader. And I kind of rotate back and forth. You know, when you get to lawyers typically talking about a very specific area of the law, you kind of lose your audience. But I think it’s important in that some of these areas are just so foreign to the average citizen who isn’t have any affiliations with the law but doesn’t it may not realize, hey, I may need that type of a lawyer one day. And so I try to find those unique folks in the community. I’ve been fortunate to have a bunch of different people from different parts of the country come on the show as well. And we, we range from anywhere from 15 minutes to 45 minutes per show. And it’s been a lot of fun. For me, it’s been good success. It’s good exposure for our firm, and I’m enjoying doing it.
Jim Hacking
Bernard, how come you didn’t just do a show about worker’s compensation? What made you sort of think to branch out and sort of what was your mindset?
Bernard Nonnberg
Well, in a little bit different way, we put on our YouTube channel, short excerpts about the law in video form. And I just thought that that would be a little too mundane for a live show. So we do house it’s it’s I guess it would be considered a video audio book on our YouTube channel about Alabama workers comp law. But when David and I were planning this, this Nonnberg law live show, we just thought we needed to have a lot more variety than Bernard talking about Alabama work comp, snooze fest. But so that’s kind of where we got the ideas from.
Tyson Mutrux
I’m curious, I’m assuming you’re partners with your brother. That’s how the firm setup. How do you all make decisions when it comes to running the firm?
Bernard Nonnberg
That’s a great question. Usually mom has to be called in to break the ties. No, I’m kidding. She actually worked next door to us. David is my youngest brother, we have a middle brother lives up in Richmond. I like to say that Rob is the smartest of the three he didn’t go into the law. He’s he’s a professor and does some other great things in the Richmond area. But David and I will meet gosh, we’re we’re around each other about 70 hours a week, it seems like and our firm meetings are typically while we’re working out at the Jewish Community Center, or while we go get a quick bite to eat, we just kind of work through things. And we have a saying here at the office called keep chopping wood. And what that means to us is we just figure out those things that work for us. And we just keep doing those things. And the keep chopping wood is this was an old story that I once heard about a fella who that’s all he did in life. But he was very, very good at it and loved it. And that that made him happy. And that fulfilled his life. And that’s that’s kind of where we are both of us, David and I both love what we do enjoy helping folks. We call in dad occasionally to get his advice on stuff to keep him part of the firm. And we just keep chopping wood.
Jim Hacking
Bernard, talk to us a little bit about marketing challenges in a town of 100,000. How do you stand out? Is there a lot of competition and what have you and David done to sort of make the Nonnberg law firm sort of bigger than life.
Bernard Nonnberg
David and I are based in Birmingham, and our practice is up here. And it’s the biggest city in the state. And I think our metro area is more than a million. But dad, his practice was down in Dothan. And that’s where we grew up. And after he happily retired, when David and I were figuring out where we wanted to have our practice, we thought Birmingham was better suited for us for our families. But I’ll tell you in a town this big the biggest city in the state, they’re really the folks who do the kind of work that we do work comp so security in the like, we really have kind of a close knit community, if you will, believe it or not, there is a lot of competition. There’s a lot of there’s a lot of cases out there. And we have a real good camaraderie. We meet once a month, the plaintiffs side of our bench and we share ideas and we really get along very well. But as a two man firm, just like most of the folks who who do the kind of work we do, we can’t compete with the billboards and the TV attorneys, those big firms. So we really have shifted our marketing, to social media to the internet to what I call grass roots. David and I are on committees. We speak around the state quite often. David is an executive member of a couple of different organizations. I currently am the chair of the Alabama State Bar work comp section. So we really just try to get out and meet as many attorneys and establish relationships that we can with them. Those are always our strongest feeds of potential new cases. But as part of the different organizations that you too, are also part of we have really ramped up our social media efforts, Facebook, Twitter, all the social media platforms that we try to compete on those levels, where we know we’d never normally we really want to ever compete on the billboards and the TV ads of the
Tyson Mutrux
world. Record you’ve seemed to have embraced video whether it’s live video or recorded video from looking at your social media looking website, things like that. What advice would you give to attorneys that are in a similar position to you that have not quite adopted video yet.
Bernard Nonnberg
Well, it’s all repeat the advice that I got from many lawyers who are ahead of me in this avenue was just start, just practice, I did lots of offline videoing just to see what a sounded like and look like. While there’s not much to look at or to hear I try to convey a good message, whether it’s talking about an area of the law, or these on the trail videos that I do once a week that shamelessly will admit I, I copied from our buddy Morris Lilienthal. And from from Jim’s different videos that I’ve seen both of them do so very well. Just trying to humanize who I am as a lawyer, because I think a lot of folks who don’t deal with lawyers or around lawyers, they, they tend to be a little afraid to talk with them. And you just got to show that, you know, I’m just another guy just like them.
Jim Hacking
I think that that’s a great point, Bernard, I think that one of the best things about your Nonnberg life show is that, you know, you might ask questions of people, but it’s really the interaction of you and the other guests that really shows who you are. And I think that just, there’s no substitute to letting people spend time with you. And whether it’s audio or video. I think that’s just great. Now, what kind of feedback have you gotten from people in Alabama and Birmingham or other people that see your shows or to your videos? What kind of feedback are you getting?
Bernard Nonnberg
It’s certainly expanded our audience, it certainly expanded our footprint in the state. But it’s kind of cool. When this winter I was at my my kids, they both graduated from high school, but our school is in our, our neighborhood. And I know a lot of the the kids were still playing on the sports teams and their parents, of course. And I’m at one of the games about 30 minutes from home. And one of the other teams parents stopped me and recognized me he had watched one of the videos or one of the interviews that we had recently done to that time period about childhood athletes and concussions. And so we struck up a conversation for a minute or two, he asked me for my card and made a new friend. So it’s that that kind of exposure has been pretty cool. To see how you know, folks find you, you put out some some decent content, that’s interesting. And they just start to find you
Tyson Mutrux
are Barnard. So I’m gonna ask you to think about your law practice for a second. And I want you to think about one thing you should stop doing, and why and what’s prevented you from stopping doing it.
Bernard Nonnberg
The one thing that we constantly do here in the office, David and I is tweaking and hopefully somewhat perfecting all of our systems in the office. And I think I heard this from maybe John Fisher, or one of the other masterminds are the guys who are just what I say ahead of me, in doing all these things, is learning how to delegate those tasks that the lawyers in the office don’t need to be doing. And that’s why you hire assistants and other folks to do those things for you. So there are certain tasks in our office, that we’ve stopped doing and delegating. We’ve delegated it to the others, the assistants, the paralegals, the secretaries in the office, so that we can continue focusing on client communications and negotiations and those types of what I’ll call
Jim Hacking
lawyer tasks. What are what do you view as the things that you and David are best at doing? How does that play into how you divide up the work and have you sat down and thought about the way to best use your time?
Bernard Nonnberg
Jim, we, we follow the same concept that I did. This is kind of funny, at least to me. The same way I used to figure out which of my two daughters got to sit in the front seat on a given day, before they were driving. My older daughter got the odd days of the calendar month, and my younger daughter got the 11 days now she quickly realized that she was missing out a day or two each month. But David and I delegate whichever new phone call or email that comes in with a new client potential client, that suit gets that particular day. So even if we’re out of town, even if we’re in deficit, whatever it is, if today is the 23rd today is David’s day, tomorrow will be my day is what we say in the office. And that’s how we figure out at least from the new calls, the new cases that come in, and that’s how we we determined who who gets to review it and start working on it from that perspective. And not that we were equal partners and we Being me being the older brother, I like to say that, that I run the firm. But the reality is, is David really is the mastermind or the brains behind the firm most of the time.
Tyson Mutrux
So, kids have so many more questions that ask you about a couple. So like, when it comes to like, like, really, really big cases? I mean, do you let’s say someone calls you, let’s say, someone calls you and they want you, but it’s his day. Does he get the case? Or do you get the case? How does that because these are really I mean, these are real life problems that people face every day. So how does that work?
Bernard Nonnberg
That may be the one rare exception. Tyson if somebody happens to call directly for me, because they either knew me from way back or they saw something they liked. I don’t know. Then I’ll take the case. We really have no, there’s no jealousies, there’s no competition. I mean, there’s always brotherly competition. That’s why we play racquetball a couple days a week. But we really just whoever gets that call will take it in that particular occasion. I think David had our largest case that we’ve we’ve ever had. It was a multimillion dollar case. I was pleased, I was so thrilled for him, the way he was able to handle that, you know, those cases are so rare that they ever you ever see them in your practice. But I, I was I was his number one cheerleader the whole way through, and he did such a beautiful job. There’s, at the end of the day, we’re business partners, but more importantly, we’re brothers and we treat it as a family business.
Jim Hacking
Bernard, let’s talk about one of our mutually favorite Alabama lawyers, Mo Lilienthal. You
Bernard Nonnberg
know, Moe is going to be coming and speaking at the max law con 2018. And I know you’re, you were one of the first people to sign up for the conference. I just think we’re all so lucky to know Moe and I know you and he spent some time together this weekend, just tell our listeners about all the things Morris is doing and what a what a great lawyer he is. The very best thing that I think I can share about Morris is that he is one of the nicest guys I’ve ever been around lawyer, not lawyer doesn’t doesn’t matter. He really is a true friend. I’ve known Morris for probably 15 years now. I was fortunate to attend his wedding with he and Shannon many years ago, getting to watch Wyatt play sports. But Morris is such a hard worker. He’s such a friend to not just it wouldn’t matter if you’re the lowest guy on the social totem pole or the top guy. Morris is. He’s Morris. And he he’ll do anything for you. He will without question. Do whatever is needed, for your friendship to be your lawyer, whatever it may be. But Moe has just figured out because he’s so dedicated to his craft. He has just figured out those things that work for his firm from a social media standpoint, and he’s so great at it. He’s such a personable guy, what you see with him in his daily tips, and in his most show, that’s the real deal. There is no put on by Morris. I was fortunate to spend all of Saturday, this past Saturday with him up in Huntsville. It’s only about 100 Mile Drive. And we did the walk of the March of Dimes for his team will, which is so dear and near to Shannon and his hearts. And why. And then we had lunch and went to Wyatt’s baseball game. And all through there, you should have seen how many people he interacted with hundreds of people. And I was with him the whole time. And it Mo is Mo and he is just one awesome guy. And I’m lucky and fortunate to call him one of my buddies. And I’m really looking forward for him at the max con conference to be able to share some of his knowledge because I know you guys have limited the speakers to what 30 or 45 Less than an hour per speaker. I know he’s going to hit the highlights but if you want to dig deep in the woods, you’re going to have to get with him after afterwards to learn some of his his real tricks. But he’s he’s an awesome guy.
Tyson Mutrux
No really is awesome. He took about an hour of his time and had a phone call with me and I was gonna try and edit it and post it and so everyone can listen to what he shared with me but unfortunately the audio was terrible because that was on a bus and on a tram and all around. I think it was in Florida at the time so but he shared all a bunch of his secrets and he’s he’s very very generous with his time. Let me ask you about someone else that’s that’s near and dear to Bernard your father. Tell me one piece of advice. So biggest piece of advice that he’s given you that’s helped you in your career.
Bernard Nonnberg
It is an I appreciate you asking about that ties them in this is probably been one of the most important things that he ever shared with with David Robin and me is just be yourself. People can see through that, if you’re being someone else, if you’re trying to impress if you’re trying to do something or be someone that you’re not those clients, those friends of the firm, the opposing counsel, the judges, they see through that in a heartbeat. And he said, Just Just be who you are, let your personality come out. And that should be hopefully enough. With all the learning that you have with who you know what, you know, your street smarts or your book smarts. All of that ought to be enough for you to be successful in representing those folks who need it. And it’s just always resonated with David and me. And hopefully, some of that comes out even in my my interviews and all the stuff that it’s on social media, just trying to be who I am. Because I don’t know how to be anything or anyone else. And that’s always stuck with us. And that’s been probably dead best piece of advice that I’ve I’ve retained?
Jim Hacking
Or what is your dad think about the social media and all the different ways that you and David are promoting the firm as it related to how he used to do it back in the day?
Bernard Nonnberg
Well, of course, there’s always the back in the day comments, but he loves it. He’s on on Facebook, he tries to get on Twitter and follow stuff. And he goes to our YouTube channel. And they’ll he’ll throw in a couple of pieces of advice. And we do ask for it from time to time, but he absolutely loves it. He loves the fact that I guess he gets to see us or me much more so than David. David is on social media a little bit. He he doesn’t do much of the video stuff. But I think that like most folks who practiced for I think that practice 4546 years. And of course back then even TV and billboard all that was taboo. It was yellow pages or nothing. And it’s just evolved that just about anything goes now. And he’ll find stuff on on YouTube, and share with us some very funny lawyer videos and advertisements. But I think he enjoys it. He enjoys seeing it each day and talking about it from time to time.
Tyson Mutrux
Alright, Jimmy, before we get to your hack of the week, I do want to remind everyone, I don’t know if I did this last time. So I want to make sure I do please go to iTunes, wherever your podcast gives five star review. The word is spreading. So you’re doing a really, really good job. The Facebook group is growing like it’s it’s crazy. I think it’s more than doubled over the last year. So it’s pretty incredible. And keep firing off all the questions and answers and comments on the page. It’s It’s incredible how much information you’re sharing. So definitely go on there and join the Facebook group. There’s a lot of information going around. Jimmy you get your hack of the week.
Jim Hacking
I do but before I get to that, I want to say a couple things. Number one is everyone really should check out Bernard show numbers live. And I think it’s just a really great way to personalize yourself to be seen as something other than just a boring old fuddy duddy lawyer. And I think that the way Bernard runs his show, I mean, Mitch Jackson and I were talking with Bernard about how he really has a great personality and radio voice. I think he does a really good job of listening, which I think sometimes Jason, you and I sort of speed pass so everyone should check out Bernard show. Other thing I wanted to bring up was that Maxwell icon is quickly approaching, we’re getting real close
Tyson Mutrux
to conferences, May 17, and 18th. We do have some stuff going on night before. So you know, I’m assuming a lot of people are coming in on the 16th. So come in the night before we’ll hang out then.
Jim Hacking
So we’re going to be real excited to see everybody. And the hack of the week is a great book that actually popped up in the Facebook group. It’s called The Complete Guide to law firm intake, powerful strategies to maximize retention and increase revenue. It’s by an attorney named Gary Falco with Tyson. I think you should definitely read this before we have Gary on the show. When I swung into action. As soon as everybody recommended the book last week, I downloaded it on Kindle. I’m about halfway through it. And Gary has agreed to be on the show. We’re going to do a Facebook Live with him on May 3 I believe we’ll get the word out on that as it approaches but it is written for personal injury attorneys but it was very easy for me to translate it into how to do better intake as an immigration lawyer. And I think that so many lawyers spent so much money on getting the phone to ring but we all do a pretty poor job and not as good a job as we think that we do on actually conversion. So I think that everybody who listens to the show should read the book and then hopefully we’ll get a good lively turnout on May 3 When Gary comes on the show.
Tyson Mutrux
Yes, Bernard has an excellent radio and podcast voice and you have an excellent podcast and radio face. So I just wanna make sure I just want to make sure it pointed that out. Anyway, we’ve already done it over the week. Sorry, Jimmy. I had to make it easy on me. Put on radio. Very hard to do that tip of the week. What
Bernard Nonnberg
do I do, guys, thank you for asking, everyone’s time is is precious, including those who are calling your office for advice. And I think that listening is the most important thing an attorney can do. When he picks up the phone and talks to a client, they just want to be heard, whether it’s one minute or 30 minutes, whatever time you can give them. Listen, listen to what they’re having to say, give them some feedback, it’s very easy for a lawyer to be doing six things while he’s on the phone, talking to a new client or even a current client, you got to listen, and you got to respond to what they’re asking. That’s it.
Tyson Mutrux
I love it. And then something that we hired a new receptionist a few weeks ago, and she had done something last week that we wouldn’t make sure that she doesn’t do anymore as she just given the number of another attorney, because it was a practice that we don’t handle. And she just gave the number saying call such and such, you know, make sure you mention us and don’t do that anymore. What I want you to do is I want you to give the number, say we’re going to contact the other attorney, let them know you’ll be calling you then we then call the other attorney, let them know that they’re calling, you want to do a warm handoff and make them feel like hey, you actually care about me. You’re not just sending me off into the wilderness, defend for myself. So I think that that’s a great point for and I really appreciate it. My tip of the week is actually it has to do with something Bernard was saying. And what I would like for everyone to do is if you’re not comfortable video, record one video this week, and post it to the maximum lawyer group. And that way you can get feedback from us on it’s from from members of the group on how you can improve. So just record just a one minute video on anything you want to do. It can be on a business topic to be on a lot, law topic, whatever you want to do. Just do one video short video posted on the group and we’ll give you feedback so you can get better. So that is my tip of the week. Bernard, thank you so much for coming on. This is a great episode and we’ve been wanting to get you on for a long time. So we really appreciate coming on.
