3 Firm Growth Tips to Go From Starter To Next Level 499

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Just getting started in your own firm? Wanting to uplevel your firm and grow faster? Today’s episode has Jim and Tyson in the interview seat as they are guest’s on Kara Vaval podcast: Laptop Lifestyle LawyerListen in as Tyson and Jim share their starting points of their firms, as well as the start of Maximum Lawyer Podcast and Group Coaching (the Guild) 

With their:

➡️ organic coaching growth and direction taken from what people wanted

➡️ to breaking up a law firm partnership 

➡️to going from broke to 50+ team in a now thriving company

Jim and Tyson are sharing all the gold nuggets here. Including their top three tips on how to move from starter firm to upping to your next level, best advice.  

Episode Highlights: 

06:39 Jim being a quick start nine from the Kolbe testing and why personality testing might have the answers for team members

10:19  Considering a partnership in owning a law firm?!  Here’s Tyson’s advice!

13:45 Serving law firm owners through community, coaching and conferences

19:42 Changing law firm owners lives by being in a positive mindset community and being vulnerable 

28:39 Beginner law firm owner — what are the top three growth tips for getting to the next level 

30:55 Fear is the thing that stop most people from taking the leap 

36:39 A streamlined process to identifying your support team 

🎥 Watch the full video on YouTube.

Connect with Kara:

Resources:

Transcript: 3 Firm Growth Tips to Go From Starter To Next Level

Unknown Speaker
Run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum lawyer podcast, podcast, your hosts, Jim hacking and Tyson metrics. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.

Kara Vaval
Welcome to the laptop lifestyle lawyer podcast. So excited to have you guys here. So I have Jim hacking and Tyson is it Metrix new tricks? New Tricks fantastic.

Tyson Mutrux
are lots of variations over the years. Oh, I’m

Kara Vaval
sure you know I have my first name is Kara, I get Cara. I get I get it all. So and my vowel it gets via Babel, so I know. Awesome. So Jim, I’m going to start with you. Give me your background. Tell the audience where you’re from your trajectory. Tom, share your journey with us. Everyone finds their story, hearing other people’s stories. And so tell me how you came about even starting the maximum warrior as well and let the people know who you are.

Jim Hacking
Got it. So my name is Jim. I’m an immigration lawyer in St. Louis. I’ve been practicing law now for 25 years. I’m old. I’ve been doing immigration. Thank you. I’ve been doing immigration since 22,007. I opened up my own law firm then and sort of farted around trying to do all different kinds of things. My wife is an immigrant. She’s originally from Egypt, we met in law school. And she was working at the law school. And so we had our insurance paid and our mortgage paid. And then I decided that I really, really, really, really wanted to open up my own law firm. She said, I’ve never heard about this, how is this something that you never mentioned, but I had what Michael Gerber calls the entrepreneurial seizure. And I was like, I got opened my own law firm. And I thought I would do law for immigrants that I would do car accidents for immigrants that I would do wills and estates for immigrants. And it became pretty clear quickly that the real need was in immigration. So I had hired a young lady who was originally from Bosnia. And she and I sort of taught ourselves immigration law. We grew from the two of us to then we had another attorney, and we kept growing and then eventually, my wife actually came and joined the firm back in 2016. And that’s when things really took off, because I’m a 10, Quickstart, and a three follow through. So I had all these great ideas, and she’s a one Quickstart and an A nine follow through. So she really brought balance to the Force brought balance to the firm. And then we’ve really taken off since then, at the current time, we’re recording this, we’re at about 55. Team members, we have nine Attorneys Offices in St. Louis, San Diego, in Washington, DC, and then Tyson and I, I taught a class at St. Louis University on how to run a law firm. And as I mentioned to him the other day, it was at a time when I was pretty much flat broke. And it was right around that time that I decided to just do immigration and niching down really helped. And so he started to maximum lawyer because we were having these great conversations after he had gone out on his own. And we decided to start recording them. And now it’s grown into a whole big thing, which I’m sure he’ll tell you about.

Kara Vaval
Awesome. Awesome. So Tyson, I’m gonna cut by the way I yet to pin the Quickstart nine Quickstart one, you’re gonna have to explain more of that. Because, you know, and I know that’s probably something having to do with maximum lawyer. And so yeah, I definitely want you to expand on that. But Tyson go ahead and introduce yourself.

Tyson Mutrux
Sure, yeah, my name is Tyson nutrix. I got a quite a bit of a different background than Jim does, Jim. And I think that’s part of my story. I’ve got two parents, neither one of them graduated from high school. And so my backgrounds just different, right. And so, but I did always have that bug, that entrepreneurial bug. And it was a little different, like Jim, like mine was sort of oozing Atomy Jim’s, I think he kind of concealed it a little bit, but mine was a little bit more using Atomy. And my, my dad whenever I was, you know, out of out of the house, and everything started a very successful business. And so he I think he always had that bug too. And I think he kind of pass it on to me, but during law school, I always knew I knew from the beginning, I wanted to start my own firm. So having that in mind. I took a lot of classes like Jim’s class while practice management. And Jim did a very smart thing. He brought people into his class, each each class to teach something new. And so Jim didn’t do all the teaching. He did some of the teaching, but then he brought in experts to come in and teach which I thought it was. It was a clever, it was a clever move, and especially knowing in hindsight, what was going on at the time. Smart was brilliant. It was but but I did I shaped all of my classes around sort of, okay, I want to start my own firm and then I had worked for a volume injury firm right out of law school, and then about a year later, a little quicker than what I expected. I started my own law firm. And that at the time was doing Criminal Defense and Personal Injury. And we talked about niching down all the time. I think if I were to go back and do it all over again, I probably would have just started started with personal injury. But the criminal offense allowed me to pay the bills. And it’s really interesting. We started the podcast, I think it was 2015. And Jim was right, we were, we were having these conversations all the time. He’s really good conversation. And we decided, hey, let’s record these things. We had a lot of false starts were with a lot of episodes that were lost into the ether that were never recorded, because we forgot to hit the record button. But we sort of you time’s up. So but we’ve never, we’ve not missed an episode. And since we started, every single week, we’ve put out a podcast. And that consistency has been pretty important to the growth of maximum lawyer, the the Guild and the conference and everything else. But but sort of back to my story. Like right now we’ve got I think we’re at 28. Team members, when it comes to our injury firm, it’s grown quite a bit in between there, I had a partnership that did not work out who lasted 18 months. But honestly, I think that that allowing that reset allowed me to push the reset button and rebuild. Everything was actually great for me and my firm. But I’ve grown more over the last four years, and I grow in the previous eight years combined. So it’s been pretty good. Yeah. And

Kara Vaval
it’s like, you know, you don’t start from scratch, you start from experience. So of course you add that to the mix, then it’s when you’re doing the do over or you know, the Picking up from where you left off. There’s so much already added value from the previous experience. So of course, so talk to me, I’m gonna jump back to you, Jim, about this nine Star 10 Star because why what is he talking about? Talk to us

Jim Hacking
about that. So for three years, I was in something called Strategic Coach, which is run by a fellow named Dan Sullivan up in Chicago and Toronto. And one of the things they have you do early on in the process is they ask you to take what’s called the Colby index, it’s Kolb II index. And it rates you on four things factfinder follow through Quickstart and implementers. So And the funny thing is, is when you receive your Colby score, everybody, no matter how different they are, they always get that always leads off with your perfect just the way you are. And so but then once you get into the details, it sort of scales you on those things, and a one isn’t bad, a 10 isn’t good. It’s just where you fall on the scale. So fact finders, you know, we have a lot of lawyers and paralegals in our office who are very high fact finders very high follow throughs. As you might imagine, Quickstart is sort of how eager or interested you are in starting new things. And so I am a 10 Quickstart, which is actually sort of rare. My wife has a one Quickstart, which is also sort of rare. But at our office, we have everybody take it, and it’s laminated, and it’s on the door to your office. So when someone’s going in to talk to Omani my wife. And when they want to talk to her about something they know, they’re reminded as they walk through the doorway, that she’s gonna want a lot of facts. And with them, when they come to see me they know that I’m gonna have like 12 ideas. I’m going to think all of them are great, and that they’re going to have to ask me for deadlines asked me for how to prioritize asked me those kinds of things. So the nice thing about the Colby index, and it cost like 50 bucks to do, the nice thing about it is that it gives everybody a language to talk about how they are and you are without there being any kind of like blame. Oh, well, of course, you would want me to write out more about that thing because you’re a high factfinder. And the funny thing is, is that we realized with Amani especially, she’s such a high Fact Finder, that she works really well with quickstarts because once she’s done her finding of facts, and made her decision, she just wants a quick start to go implement it, which is why she and I worked well together. And why her favorite team members that she’s worked with over time have been quickstarts her the worst time she ever had was she actually had a a 10 factfinder working for and all they did was fight because Amani they already decided what she wanted, and the other person wanted to go do her own thinking through of everything. So it’s, it’s really nice little tool.

Kara Vaval
That’s amazing. And I think like every entity should have something like that. So you know who you’re walking into. I mean, I’ve done the StrengthsFinder testing and those kinds of things, understanding where your strengths are and operating out of that and delegating the rest. So I know of that method, but the Kobe method sounds like it would just change the game for so many companies because it’s like, instead of having this assistant who just is not meshing with you, you know, just switch and go go get the other person who’s who matches you and isn’t that and everything you know in marriages and all types of finding out what we’re lationship really works because ultimately your work stems from the relationships that you’re operating out of as well, even within the confines of the job. So that’s, that’s very interesting. And I’m definitely going to, to share the link to this Colby test. Because, you know, I think there’s a lot of value there. And so Tyson, I’m gonna swing back to you. So you said that you went in a year after graduating, you decided to start your firm. And did you start the partnership right then? And there? That was just you in the beginning?

Tyson Mutrux
No, it was just me. In the beginning, it was me. And I think I went about six months. And I think if I hired my first part time employee, and kind of didn’t, I’d made some of the errors whenever it came to hiring at that point, but no, it was just me. And the partnership didn’t come about until 2017. So it was 2017 is whenever that came about, and then it ended in August of 2018. So very quick,

Kara Vaval
okay. And it was there a reason why because I’ve had, you know, I’ve been doing this for 14 years, I’ve had multiples of offers of partnership, and I’m just so afraid of them. It’s just like, I you know, I’m so me and how I do what I do, I’m I inject Kara 100%. And that’s even one of the ways that I encourage people to get into the laptop lifestyle lawyer type, you know, you know, delivery of legal services is you can just do it your way. You don’t have to try to be like, you know, like jammer, or Tyson. Just do your thing, figure out the unique thing about you that unique characteristics that would make you you and come out and bring that into the marketplace in the form of legal services. So how did you get pulled into that?

Tyson Mutrux
So I think it’s interesting. I don’t think anyone’s asked me that question. But the I think the main, what it really comes down to is the differences in vision, I think is what it was. And I think that going in, we probably we thought we had the same vision, we even sat down, we came up with the core values. It was funny, we started with core values. And then we never made we never advanced to like getting our mission and our vision and all that laid out we never did. But I think ultimately, that’s what it was. It’s just a difference in vision for the future. And I’d say for those 18 months, it’s one of the most stressed I’ve ever been, it really was. And I’m sure he was the same way where we felt like we were working for each other. And I remember the day that we’ve made the decision to end it. It was it was funny, like we were financially really well off. It was working really well financially for the two of us. And that was it was really bizarre, I think for a lot of people to understand is that well, it was it was you were making money. So what why why Joel split up. It’s just a difference in vision. And the day that we split up. I remember coming home and telling my wife, Amy about it. And we said that was date night, and we went to data and I told her I hadn’t told her on the way home. So I told her it didn’t she was like, she was frozen. I was like, honestly, I feel great.

Kara Vaval
I know, I’m frozen, too.

Tyson Mutrux
I told her it’s like I feel great. I guys, it’s this is actually going to work out well for both of us. And so it was in we the paperwork was all signed, and we split No, in a week, right? It was quick. I mean, it was like, boom, done, we’re moving on with our lives. And so both of us have the same or at the time, I don’t know, if he’s still use them. We used to have the same coach, executive coach Jason Selke. And it seems really solution focused. And I think we’re both solution focused. Hey, Alright, moving on. Let’s let’s get on to the next to the next chapter. And it was a net positive I think for both of us.

Kara Vaval
That’s wonderful. Okay, so So you got tempted because you thought the visions were the same. I have never been able to connect with someone that I feel has the same vision. They do. So maybe that’s why now let me ask you guys, so you decided to start your podcast with maximum lawyer and it was through the conversations, etc? And how did the conference has come about what because and I kind of also want you to touch on the coaching aspect Tyson because I’m you know, that’s what you guys provide is support and coaching and that kind of, you know, an environment for people to be able to come in and use your experience and wherewithal and coaching to grow right and it how important that is right to have someone who can be outside of your entity and, and give you feedback and give you shortcuts and nuggets and things of that nature. And so talk to me about that the podcast, of course being where it started, but how you guys develop the programs and the conferences, etc, that you have and what that does for attorneys.

Tyson Mutrux
Well, so I think you have to go through the full story, right? And if you think about the way you run your firms, you usually are offering something that your clients want, right? That’s what you’re you’re, you’re shaping your services around sort of what the clients want. And I’m really curious to see what what Jim says after what I say but that’s kind of where the podcast develops. So we went from the podcast and then we sort of Facebook group because we wanted a place to meet with all the all the listeners, right? Because we knew people were listening. But we wanted a place to meet them. That was Facebook, we had a Facebook group. And then after that, we’re like, hey, let’s meet these people in person, right? And because people were talking to, Hey, we should do a meet up somewhere, said, Hey, let’s account let’s have a conference. So it’s that we had a conference. So we started the conference. And then as it sort of snowballed, we got bigger and bigger and bigger. We said, Hey, let’s have this high, higher level conversation where we kind of we talked about the business side of things. And I’d say that our view on coaching is a little bit different than what a lot of people love. People think of a coach as, hey, you go and you get one person, that person is his Guru that tells you everything, we don’t really believe that I at least I don’t personally believe that I don’t think that there’s really a guru that can lead you to the promised land. And that’s why the guild is so great. Great. Jim came up with the name guilt, he came with the max blur to he’s, he’s good at generating names. He’s great. Really good. What’s great about the guild is you have all these,

Kara Vaval
I’m guessing is the 10 start, you know what? Exactly right. That’s where that comes from.

Tyson Mutrux
But the good but the guild is, is a, we have a lot of talented people that are willing to share, there are a lot of givers, right? A lot of givers that are willing to give more than they receive. And so it’s that it’s that rising tides, raise all boats kind of kind of a mindset. And it’s great. And so they answer your question, it’s sort of developed based on people’s needs, like what do people want. And as things have advanced, and there’s a something that Jim and I are doing in December, or we’re just going to meet with a limited number of Guild members. And we’re going to dig in for three days. And that has come about based on the needs of our guild members. And so each time we’ve had a new iteration, it’s based on the needs of our listeners of our members. And that’s where these these ideas come about. It’s in. So we, if people say, hey, we don’t want guild anymore, we’ll get rid of the guilt. That’s what it’ll be. But I don’t think that that will happen.

Kara Vaval
Yeah, so Jim, do you want to throw in someone that

Jim Hacking
Yeah, so I think Tyson and I tapped into something and thank God for the internet, because it wouldn’t have happened otherwise. And that is that I think owning a law firm can be lonely. And I say it all the time. Other than raising kids, it’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done. So you know, and when you own the law firm, it’s different than being an employee of a law firm. And so even though you might work with 20, people, there are certain conversations that you can’t have with them. And what we did as we tapped into a space, that was growth mindset, and positive and supportive, as Tyson said, and that really allowed for connection around mutual goals, like, we had great fun kicking out assholes, people that were not a good fit, they were negative and sour. And, and it’s amazing, you can actually see people holding themselves back, right. And so all of what we’re trying to do is to unlock that greatness that people have inside themselves. And we do that in big ways and small ways to our first conference, our second conference, all of our conferences, have had lots of members of the of the big group or the guild up on stage, we gave them a platform, we gave them a way to connect, and we we built this community and when I was hearing Tyson explain it, it just struck me how organic it’s been to bring together people who like being a lawyer and or who like running a law firm and the others hurdles, yeah, there’s things to overcome. But at the end of the day, there’s still generally happy positive people.

Kara Vaval
And it’s so big that you know, you mentioned mindset, because that’s the game changer, isn’t it for pretty much how any of this stuff pans out for you, right? Because if the mindset is focused on problems and and you know, being buried in problems and being buried with your clients cases, instead of serving and instead of solution, it’s just a quick little shift. It’s not a big, you know, major overhaul, it’s just looking at it from, you know, I get to do this versus I have to do this. It’s just language, right,

Becca Eberhart
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Kara Vaval
Talk about what impact you’ve seen this maximum lawyer have on the guild members and you know, what is the change that it’s causing? Or how is it propelling because, you know, Tyson you were talking about how Jim had the law practice management course and All of that, that he was teaching. While most law schools don’t offer that most law schools do not offer any kind of how to start your own shop type of thing. It’s go to, you know, get the research thing done, get a job at a law firm, and hope to make partner or you know, there’s no real tools. I went to law school for three years, and I looked for the class and I never got it, I never found a way. And that’s why I created, you know, leap into your lifestyle, it was a way for me to help attorneys just do what I did. Because I set up shop straight out of law school, I was only working nine months with this attorney. And I started my firm and I did it virtual straight out, because I didn’t have the I didn’t have the funds to do the big office and the rat, and you know, it’s very unconventional COVID made everything that I’ve done, you know, look like it, this is the way to do it. Back then 14 years ago, you know, lawyers were looking at me like Are you really a lawyer doing it this way? So talk about that, because the listeners that we have here, they many of them have virtual firms, many of them are wanting to grow. But, you know, what does that look like? What does growth look like? What impact have you seen maximum lawyer have on your members talk about that?

Tyson Mutrux
There’s a lot wrapped up?

Kara Vaval
Questions. My questions are always that way. And it’s like good luck.

Tyson Mutrux
Yeah, well, this day answer your question directly. Like we’ve seen a massive amount of growth from Guild members, it’s the coolest thing to watch seeing them go from, she’s really struggling and crying to like excelling and making seven figures like that’s, it’s amazing to watch. But I want to go back to your first very first point. And it’s about the mindset, yes, it is simple. It is very simple, right is it is actually kind of like flipping on a switch. But it’s there’s the whole idea of like mood follows action, right? You’ve got to take the action. But some of the mindset problems are deeply ingrained in people. They’re deeply deeply ingrained, you’re talking about reversing several decades of a mindset. And so it is, we can say it’s simple, like flipping on a switch. But getting

Kara Vaval
like a switch that you’re like, trying to push that switch up, takes a while it’s Rusty.

Tyson Mutrux
Yeah, it’s like you if you didn’t work out for 30 years, and all of a sudden, you start to work out, you’ve got to, you’ve got to go slowly with it. And so, and same thing with mindset mindset is the exact same way, you got to be very, very, very, very deliberate about what you’re doing. And once you get there, the mood follows action, and you start to get some momentum and things start to pick up. And we see that with guild members. It’s really funny. So you, you’ll have people listen to the podcast, and they’ll talk to us or they’ll join the guild and like, they’re like, this is so different than anything else I’ve ever been in. Because there’s a lot of there’s a lot of groups out there, right? You name them, you can throw a rock and hit a dozen different groups that tell people how to run a law firm, but they’ve never done it before. Right? But what’s great about the guild is its people that are in the trenches, right that are doing it. But they’re also have a very positive mindset. And they say, Hey, like, and not every day is great like that not everybody is great. Do you have people that will come to the Guild, and they’ll post Oh, my gosh, I’ve had a really bad day. And then people jump in, be very supportive. But hey, now let’s take the steps to correct whatever whatever the issue is. And here’s how you fix it, right. And it could be as simple as, hey, Google shut down my Google My Business page, boom, contact this person, they’ll get you set up right away, you’ll be done in 12 hours, yada, yada, whatever it may be. But that is the that is the environment that is inside the guild. And so

Kara Vaval
here excuse I’m just going to interject is that the assholes that Jim kicked out, didn’t have that vulnerable space that they would access because the hold back or the you know, it’s not really embracing the fact that we all have shitty days, and it’s part of the process. And let’s talk about it and not let’s not act like and we always have it all together, because we don’t, right. And so there is no there is no holding back in that space. Totally true.

Tyson Mutrux
So true. And honestly, the that curating dirt early like that was very early on, Jim was right about that. Like we were very deliberate about who was allowed in and who was not allowed in. And if you were a jerk, guess what? You’re gone. And like, you didn’t get a second chance, right? You don’t get a second you’re gone. Like, once you show us who you are. You’re gone.

Kara Vaval
We believe you.

Tyson Mutrux
And Barbae. So that’s, that’s that’s the approach we’ve taken. But yeah, and because of that, there was funny, I will say this. So Jim, early on, I don’t know if Jim remembers this. Jim flipped the switch on maximum lawyer and it was a closed group initially, and then he opened it up, and people went nuts. And then so we like within an hour, we’re like, shut it back down. We’re like, Okay, we won’t do it again. Sorry. But people were very protective of the community and they still are having that community having that close space to be able to be open about things. Super, super important.

Kara Vaval
That’s awesome. Go ahead, Jim. You add on.

Jim Hacking
I think you know The thing that sort of makes our group different is that Tyson and I lead by example, by not being afraid to be vulnerable, like we talk about the really hard stuff, like, some of our best episodes are where I’m just sort of ranting about something that either is making me mad or that I’m struggling with. And I think it’s really bled into the group because like, about two months ago, a month and a half ago, one of our guild members who hadn’t seen in a while sent me a long email talking about all the struggles that they were having. And I anonymized it and read it to the guild we do at Tyson, I do a call every Saturday morning, at eight in the morning, and we just riff on stuff. And I read that letter anonymously. And the guild members like rose up in unison, and just were like, that was me people shot videos, that was me, I’ve been there I that exact thing happened me don’t feel isolated. Keep coming back. My son calls this a for lawyers. And I think that a lot of ways I’ve been a 12 step program for a long time. So I know a lot of ways I think there’s some truth to that.

Kara Vaval
I love it a for lawyers, don’t we need a place where we can just come in and say, you know that my name is? And I am? Right. I am a lawyer? And so with regards to like, the conferences, is it? Is it just a seminar style? Is it coaching style is that you know, these are the things you need to go do. And then you can you can see results from there. Talk more about that, and the guild and all of these programs, what do they entail?

Jim Hacking
So the the easy thing is the Facebook group. So there’s a Facebook group, there’s like 6000, law firm owners in there. And that’s just people there trading information all day long. And we recreated the guild because we weren’t being able to hear or have, you know, more in depth discussion. So we created the guild. And so that’s a different Facebook group. And that’s a paid group. And then we do a quarterly mastermind so once a quarter, we pick a cool city that Tyson and I want to go visit. And we say we’re gonna have the mat and Tyson loves Scottsdale, Arizona. So every January, we’re in Scottsdale, we’re going to be in Scottsdale and bring us you know, whoever wants to come 3040 People want to come, you’re in a hot seat in a room with other people all day. And then we do that for two days. And then now we have some training that goes along with it. And then, like Tyson said, in December, we’re gonna try something even more different with just like three or four law firm owners and we just work on their stuff for three full days. And then the conference. We actually didn’t do a conference where we did do a conference, this we’re not doing a conference this year. But we may be bringing it back next year. But the conference is Yeah, seminar style people. We had guest speakers, we had paid speakers, we had all kinds of stuff. So it was it was great.

Kara Vaval
Wonderful. And you have one coming up. You said in Miami, yeah, that’ll be in October, in October. So you have to give me that information. So I can share it as well.

Jim Hacking
But that’s why we’re in Austin. We’re doing an automation workshop in Austin in April, and then we’re in Boulder, Colorado, in the summer in July. And then in October, we’ll be in Miami.

Kara Vaval
Awesome. Awesome. So I will share all of that for our listeners and whoever’s interested and so that they can follow you guys as well. You’re on Facebook, you’re on. You’re on Instagram as well. The maximum warrior? Yep. We’re okay. Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux
So it’s funny you asked this, Jim had to think about I think because we don’t touch any of that stuff. That’s all done for us. So we it’s all just kind of pushed out to the world. Jim is

Kara Vaval
like, do we have that?

Jim Hacking
I’ve seen myself on our Instagram feed. So then I knew that we had one.

Kara Vaval
Okay, awesome. So my question for you. And really, it’s if so the whoever’s listening and where they are in their trajectory, if you could speak to your beginner self, right. Starting your firm and your I will take turn so start digging into your your thoughts on that. And you have your firm set up, you’re starting to get your clients and growing the best you know how to, if you had to share three growth tips to go from starter beginner to next level, whatever next level looked like for you when you are doing it, share that

Jim Hacking
Go fast. Go fast. hire for your weaknesses, hire the people that helped fill you out, and then create video and repurpose it. Those are my three.

Tyson Mutrux
I love it. So I would I would my it’s funny. I was wondering if you and I were gonna have the exact same ones. It’s really interesting, too. I want to point this out. Jim, Jim and I were talking about this before like, I am very forward thinking Jim is very backward thinking in a positive way he can he can go back and reflect. I sorted shut all that shit down. I just don’t even I just go for very forward thinking. So I did have to really kind of force myself to think about this. But I think it really is you go fast. You go fast because you You’re many times people don’t go fast out of fear. So you gotta shut that fear down, you just gotta go fast, you got to trust that it’s gonna work. So I would say go fast, I would, I would definitely echo that, I was gonna say my first one is actually gonna be higher. So go party going faster as continue to hire, don’t stop hiring always be hired, I think because that’s going to allow you to go super, super fast. And then whether I’m going to change a little bit what what Jim said, I’m going to say just continue to mark it like Don’t, don’t let that stop because where people plateau is they were talking about this with a guild member just two days ago, what happens is, is that you market a lot, the very, very beginning. And so you start to get a lot of momentum with cases, then you start to work on all those cases, and then you get stuck, right, you just get stuck. And then you stop marketing. And then you have what we call the dip. And so that’s what you want to avoid. You want to avoid that. And so you got to continue to market and higher market and higher market, higher market and higher, that’s going to allow you to go fast.

Kara Vaval
Awesome. And I definitely want you to expound on that fear. Because that is what stops most people from even taking the leap. And I talked about it because you know, I always I heard many moons ago that fear is false evidence appearing real. But that evidence that false evidence is so real, right? And you think you’re gonna fail, you think you’re gonna hire this person, and you’re gonna go broke because of anything? So many different thoughts, right? How do you and and obviously, that ties into mindset, right? It’s this whole believe you can type thing, but how do you deal with that? And how did you deal with that? Because many of our listeners had to overcome fear many times over in order to even be, you know, on their own, and you’ve had to do that, I’m sure. And so although you had the you did have the burning desire from day one. So I don’t know if you experienced that. But Can you expound on that?

Tyson Mutrux
Yeah, I mean, we talked about vision, but it’s really, you got to know what you want, like, you really got to know what you want, like, do I want to work for this guy who’s a real prick? And that has me work until eight o’clock every night? And then I don’t see my kids and my wife, do I want that? Or would I rather do all that work on trying to generate business and working on my own? And trying to build my own thing? Like, do I? Which of those do I want, right? Because that’s usually what the choices that was my choice was really what it was, Do I want to sort of build my own thing? Do I want to put all those hours in really building my thing as opposed to someone else’s thing? So you got to figure out what you want, like, what do you want? And continue to ask yourself that question? Well, what do I what do I really want? No, no, actually, what do I really, really want and figure that out? Once you figure that out? Well, other stuff can becomes easy. Like once you actually know i Yes, I do want to start my own farm. Okay. How do I get business? Let’s like you got to be proactive. And some of that fear might come from people that they start their firm, and then they don’t do anything like that. The worst thing you can do whenever you start your own firm is not do anything like you’ve got to be proactive. So I guess the answer your question, How did I get past it? I didn’t know what I wanted. And then I was I was very proactive about it. I was meeting with people all the time, I was really shaping every all of my activities around growing my business is what it was. And Jim was the same way. Like, he was one of the early adopters when it came to video. Like that’s how and I don’t want speak for Jim. But that’s how he did it. He knew what he wanted. And he recorded a bunch of video to get him to that point. But you gotta you just gotta it’s I think it starts with knowing what you want. It’s I think it really is that simple. Jim, can you touch on that?

Jim Hacking
I think most law firm owners being high fact finders are very loath to give up control. And the reason that they don’t want to give up control is because they are afraid of mistakes. And they’re convinced that only they can do 98% of the things that have to happen in the law firm. And so they keep from growing because they’re too scared to give up control. And then that mostly because they Oh my god, we can’t have a mistake, a mistake would be the worst thing ever. I became a lawyer try to punish people for their mistakes and to prevent them from making mistakes. And so they get all wrapped up in this control, control control. And man, I can hear it a mile away. I can hear it a mile away when someone’s a control bullshitter where they say, oh, yeah, I’m happy to delegate. But as soon as they have the opportunity, they take it all back. And then they get small again. And so I think the biggest hindrance to growth and to delegation is this reluctance to allow people to make mistakes, which of course, you can just use to improve your systems.

Kara Vaval
So you never had any hold back on hiring and just getting people involved. And I knew

Jim Hacking
very early, that there was a lot of stuff about being a lawyer or running a law firm that I didn’t like to do, and that I wasn’t very good at. So when I said earlier about hiring for your weaknesses, hiring for the stuff that you don’t want to do or that you’re not good at. I mean, that was my whole thing. So you a law firm owner can’t do everything. So find out what your strengths are. Find out what you like, do more of that and then let other people do that. stuff that they like, like, I hated sending out bills, I would finish a case and people hadn’t finished paying us. And I just didn’t like the invoicing, I didn’t like looking at the numbers. And I hired someone who came back later and told me I found my purpose in life chasing people down for money that they owe you, right? So that’s just not my bag. And there’s people out there who do those things that you don’t want to do.

Kara Vaval
Yes, and I absolutely love that you’re saying that. Because ultimately, I think that that’s what unlocked a lot for me, it was doing that StrengthsFinder test, really focusing on my strengths. And, you know, just maximizing the output in that space and understanding that if somebody can do it, you know, 85%, as good as I can do it, then I’ve hit a homerun and keeping them, you know, happy also, because people only give their 85% as good as what you would do if they’re happy to be there, and if they’re supported. And so I know that you talked about at the beginning, having those posters on the door, really recognizing people for their strengths, really recognizing people for their better space, I guess, to work from so can you add to that, and how that has changed the game for you in the hiring space? Because I think that, you know, being able to find the right fit. It’s a skill, it really is because especially if you’re you’re inundated with work and you’re just desperate to find help. Sometimes kissing a lot of frogs is part of the process. Do you have a streamlined process to identify your right? You know, your right support team.

Jim Hacking
Every year, the 30 teams in the NFL spend millions of dollars researching collegiate athletes, they do all kinds of testing, and they have a combine and they and my New York Jets thought that they had found their answer and Zach Wilson, and he’s been a complete and utter bust. So I believe in the value of testing, I believe in the value of inquiring and doing your due diligence. But I honestly believe that at the end of the day, you get lucky, you get lucky, you don’t know you can’t really test for hustle, you can look for it in an experience. But I think again, I see people hire one person, it doesn’t work out and they say oh, that’s never going to work. And they don’t try again. You just have to keep trying. And like Tyson said, one of the great benefits of hiring all the time is that you can find people, I honestly think that if you’re thinking about hiring a person you hire two, because probably only one of them’s gonna work out.

Kara Vaval
You’re shaking your head. Yes. Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux
I mean, it’s the whole it’s was the especially the last thing that Jim said, you want to hire slow fire fast that that is there for a reason, because you are gonna get it wrong. Like we have a of all the lawyers that I know, I may have the most intense hiring process, right. But there are times that we have gotten it wrong, right, we put through people going through a ton of assessments, and a ton of tests. And through the interview after interview, and most of the time, we do get it right. But we do get it wrong from time to time. And just because we get it wrong doesn’t mean that our whole process is jacked up and it over. There’s something wrong with us. It’s just that people like it, that’s, that’s part of the process too, like people lying to you, right? They they will lie to your face. And that’s why you got to have such an intense hiring process. But the point is, is that you’re gonna make mistakes with this, that doesn’t mean you should stop hiring. The answer is hiring, you just got to continue to do it.

Kara Vaval
Awesome. Guys, this was great. I definitely would love to have another conversation similar to this. Any words of wisdom you want to leave for our listeners? Because, you know, this has been you’ve given us quite a bit of golden nuggets, but I’m gonna just take turns any one golden nugget to leave and then we’re going to wrap up.

Jim Hacking
Sure. Yeah, mine would be to give yourself a break. Don’t be hard on yourself. Don’t be worried about the mistakes or the things that you wish you’d done differently. You can’t look backwards and too many people go into the future looking behind them. And like Tyson said, You got to be forward focused. And and, as he said, trying to solve problems.

Tyson Mutrux
It’s funny you say that? Uh, my first thought was, it’s going to be okay. It’s going to be okay. Whatever your situation is, it’s going to be okay. And since since Jim was basically the same thing, I’ll say this, figure out what you want, like sit actually sit down and spend as much time as as necessary. So that’s hours or days or weeks or years, figuring out what you want actually take the quiet time to figure that out. Figure that out that way in 20 years, you don’t have a bunch of regrets that way. You 20 years you don’t think oh my gosh, I should have been a criminal defense attorney, not a personal injury attorney. Right. actually sit down and do the vision work. And once you’ve done that, a lot of the other stuff will just fall into Lesson you won’t worry about all the nonsense.

Kara Vaval
I love it. This was awesome Tyson nutrix. And Jim hacking with a maximum lawyer, thank you so much for gracing us with your time with your knowledge with all of your golden nuggets, we will have the link to your event that’s coming up in October out here in Miami and just give us all your other stuff. Also, you know, and encouraging everyone to go follow the maximum lawyer on all social media platforms and get involved with what they’re doing. Because that’s, that’s what it’s all about. My whole Mo is really spreading the word on where the resources are, where the communities are, where we can really, you know, support one another in chasing our individual dreams. Because, you know, we went there, to law school, invested the time paid the money did all of that. And we want to succeed at what we’re doing. And we want to serve our clients well, and we want to feed our families well, and we want to have the lifestyle and we want to, you know, do what we went to school to do and successfully carry that out. But like you said in the beginning, Jim, you know, it’s very lonely, when you don’t have community and just hustling and doing this alone and trying to figure it out. So I’m big on getting the support, getting the community connection, getting the coaching, getting whatever it is that you need, reading the books, doing the work, and then you know, really adding value onto yourself so that you can be of better service to the people that you deliver your services to. And so, again, gentlemen, thank you for your time. This was awesome. Until next time.

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