Reflecting on Seven Years of Maximum Lawyer

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In this podcast episode, Jim Hacking and Tyson Mutrux reflect on the seven-year journey of the Maximum Lawyer podcast. They discuss the evolution of the podcast, their early tips and hacks, and the impact of vulnerability and authenticity on their success. 

They highlight their favorite episodes and the therapeutic nature of the podcast. As well as emphasizing the importance of collective wisdom through their past guest, talking to each other and the Guild! 

Episode Highlights:

  • 01:55 The impressive milestone! 
  • 03:33 First guest and the strategy behind guests
  • 06:54 Favorite episodes 
  • 08:31 Limitless mindset 
  • 13:13 What the podcast has done for Jim and Tyson 

🎥 Watch the full video on YouTube here.

Resources:

Transcripts: Reflecting on Seven Years of Maximum Lawyer

Jimmy:
Welcome back to the Maximum Moir Podcast. I'm Jim Hacking.

Tyson:
And I'm Tyson Mutrix. What's up, Jimmy.

Jimmy:
How you doing buddy?

Tyson:
Good man. I'm feeling good. I went to the gym this morning, got my workout in, feeling good. You're fresh back from France, so that's awesome. How are you feeling?

Jimmy:
I was among your people in France.

Tyson:
Yeah, the Mutros, exactly.

Jimmy:
We chose exactly.

Tyson:
Did you go say

Jimmy:
Yeah,

Tyson:
hi?

Jimmy:
I did not we were we were in London for a week and France Paris for a week and now I'm in Des Moines, Iowa things, you know, just get more and more glorious I'm here for Norse softball tournament But we had a wonderful time all the kids came with us. We didn't kill each other There was some stressful moments including Right when we got to Paris, we finally it took us an hour to get our train passes for the week and we get on the train and we have all our bags. We look totally like tourists. And this guy comes up and the train's coming to a stop at the next stop and this guy comes up and he sort of starts to talk to me and then I feel in my left pocket some movement and I just go with my cat-like reflexes, I just go whack!

Tyson:
WACK

Jimmy:
And he had a partner trying to get my wallet and I whacked his hand and then the doors opened and the two of them jumped off the train.

Tyson:
Oh my gosh, did they get anything from you? Wow! I've

Jimmy:
Yeah.

Tyson:
always heard those stories.

Jimmy:
I mean, it was,

Tyson:
That's

Jimmy:
we

Tyson:
crazy.

Jimmy:
looked like total marks, I'm sure, but it was, I just felt a little tingle in my pocket and I was like, oh.

Tyson:
Well, hey, nice job, Ninja.

Jimmy:
Thanks.

Tyson:
Ninja Jim.

Jimmy:
Yeah.

Tyson:
Wow. So, that's incredible. Wow. Well, we're going to have a long talk about your trip because that sounds fun. But maybe we can talk about it on the Saturday show. But this is the anniversary episode. How about that?

Jimmy:
We have not missed a week in seven years.

Tyson:
That's incredible. It's

Jimmy:
It is

Tyson:
absolutely,

Jimmy:
incredible.

Tyson:
that is, I mean, I'm gonna pat ourselves on the back a little bit. Like that consistency is just incredible. That's amazing.

Jimmy:
Because there have been other things that have like filled filler, but we've actually had a new episode of new content every, every week for seven years. So what's seven times 52? That's like 350 episodes, just you and me.

Tyson:
That's incredible. So that's exciting. We're gonna talk a little bit about the journey today and then we're gonna talk about one thing we've learned. And I'm really curious to see what you came up with and how it compares to my one thing that we've learned. And so it's just one of those things, it's a weird thing to think about. Seven years is a really long time. I remember you started, so I started in my old office at 1717 Park and

Jimmy:
Thanks

Tyson:
it was a

Jimmy:
for

Tyson:
decent

Jimmy:
watching!

Tyson:
setup but you were set up in Webster Gros and you were, I remember the train always going off.

Jimmy:
and the jackhammers because they were doing some kind of construction and we were using what was that thing we used in the old days that Microsoft product for

Tyson:
We used Skype for a little bit.

Jimmy:
Skype yeah we had no idea what we were doing

Tyson:
And there

Jimmy:
yeah

Tyson:
are several episodes that we didn't hit the record button. And

Jimmy:
Oh, for

Tyson:
so

Jimmy:
sure.

Tyson:
those were just gone. I remember there was a couple where we were like, oh my gosh, that was so good.

Jimmy:
Yeah.

Tyson:
And we didn't hit the record button.

Jimmy:
Well, and you know, it didn't take us long to start having guests. I don't even remember who our first guest was. Do you? Was it John Fisher?

Tyson:
I think it was Jill Ullett, actually.

Jimmy:
Oh, that's funny.

Tyson:
I think it was the eighth episode, if I remember correctly. Someone's going to have to fact check us on

Jimmy:
Yeah.

Tyson:
this. We can say whatever. Yeah, it was John Fisher. It was John Fisher. It was our fifth episode. No, I'm just kidding. I don't know. Are you looking it up? Because

Jimmy:
You're gonna lick it up.

Tyson:
I think it was Jill Ullett and I think it was the eighth episode. I'm really curious to hear if I'm right about that, but

Jimmy:
Yeah.

Tyson:
we'll see. But what we did, I think we can… pulled by the curtain a little bit here. I mean, it's just so far removed. The idea was at the time, we start getting guests on and they start telling their people about it and the word sort of spreads and people, we spread by word of mouth and it turned out to be a pretty decent strategy the way it's worked out. Have you gotten

Jimmy:
Well,

Tyson:
to it?

Jimmy:
no, I didn't. It's because it's backwards. I can tell you what your first tip, your first tip of the week was, every day you should write five things to be done. The same with your week. At the end of the day in the week, they must be done. Small tasks are just fine, but write them down and get them done. This will keep you moving forward. Green pen for the completed task and red for the non-completed. You will hate to take out that red pen.

Tyson:
Yeah, I remember saying that. What was your first hack?

Jimmy:
Go and listen to Dean Jackson and Joe Polish talk about marketing. Go back and start from the beginning. There are lots of great podcasts about marketing, before unit, during unit, and after unit. You come upon them at different stages of your project, learn how to manage them. So, I mean, that's pretty funny.

Tyson:
That is, it's fairly consistent for, if you were looking at all of our tips and our hacks, fairly consistent when it comes to what we recommended. I'm assuming yours were more marketing and mindset, mine were more like nuts and bolts and operations minded.

Jimmy:
Yeah, I'm looking through, at least at first, we didn't keep track of the guest tips or hack. So the first one that mentions is episode 22. Lee, who's Lee?

Tyson:
Oh, is Lee Rosen?

Jimmy:
It must have been.

Tyson:
That was probably Lee Rosen, that's probably

Jimmy:
Yeah,

Tyson:
what

Jimmy:
because

Tyson:
that one

Jimmy:
it's

Tyson:
was.

Jimmy:
AI personal assistant. So it probably is, Lee. Yeah, so he wasn't our first guest, I don't

Tyson:
No,

Jimmy:
think.

Tyson:
no. You know what's interesting is who do you… This is a good question. Who do you think was our first big guest that you can remember?

Jimmy:
Well, one thing I remember was Will Norman. I remember I was sitting at softball practice or baseball practice, it would have been, for the boys, and we recorded that. That was like, we recorded that on like a Tuesday night, I remember. And that was our number one performing podcast episode for years. It might still be for all I know. And it was a long one too, because we broke it up into two episodes, I remember. And the first one was by far… the one that people listen to the most, and it was all about starting out from scratch, and Will was pretty vulnerable, I remember, on that episode, it's sort of about, you know, messing around with this versus turning it into a real business.

Tyson:
Yeah, the Will Norman episodes, because it was a two-part, I wouldn't call it a series, there were two episodes, because we had to do, it was so long, we split into two. And I don't know what struck a chord with people, but something did clearly, because if you were to look at the numbers, it was a massive spike at the time, where people really resonated with it. And it was maybe the fact that Will was just so vulnerable, but… It was like, he was just, he was very open in that episode. And he's a very genuine person anyways, but that was, it was weird because it just never made sense to me at the time. But I think looking back, it really did make sense that it was just because he was so vulnerable and honest and genuine.

Jimmy:
Well, and to our credit, I mean, so were we. I mean, I think that's really why people resonated with us is because we weren't just doing the Instagram version of running a law firm. We were talking about the hard shit, the personnel issues, the software issues, the mindset issues, the scheduling issues, the juggling issues, you know, all those things. I think that's really what resonated with people, and Will's episode certainly tapped into that.

Tyson:
Could you, can you think of what your favorite episode might be?

Jimmy:
Um, well, yes, I know what my favorite episode is. Do you know what,

Tyson:
Okay.

Jimmy:
do you know what my favorite episode is?

Tyson:
I don't know.

Jimmy:
It was, um, law firm roulette where we, we picked, we picked the website, website roulette, we picked the product or the practice area, we picked the town. We found some like estate planning lawyer from, I think it was Northern California who just had the worst 1999. version of a website and we just dissected it and we had a lot of fun.

Tyson:
But he was crushing it on the three pack though. I do remember that it just didn't compute, right? He had this terrible, terrible website but was killing it on the three pack. It was just so bizarre. And I think he had like one of those legacy websites that was just had been there for decades, you know, just.

Jimmy:
I think it was like content rich so it had like tons and tons of content, you know

Tyson:
but it was all early 90s website design, for sure. You know, it's funny, I was gonna say, I don't think I could think of what my favorite episode is because it's so many episodes. It is so hard to remember all the guests. It's hard to remember all the topics, but now that you say the website roulette, that is my favorite. We've talked about it for years about doing it again, and we need to do it again. We need to do a reboot.

Jimmy:
So what do you think? You asked me what was my biggest lesson, and I'm ready to answer that whenever you are, but what was your biggest lesson that you've learned in all these interviews, all this talking to people who are running their law firm?

Tyson:
I can't wait to hear what yours is. It's all about mindset. It's all mindset. And if you would have asked me on day one of starting this, I would have never gotten even close to that response. Where I started when we started this podcast and where I'm now, it's so different. The person I am is so different. I thought that was all Hocus Pocus stuff. And I was wrong, just completely wrong. Success is all about mindset. And it's, I think it's as simple as that. I think if you're going to break it down, that's what it does.

Jimmy:
Well, I think that, and this also brings up one of my favorite episodes, there's been one person, there's been one person who we interviewed on the day that he opened his law firm, and that was our friend Paul Yokobitis. And Paul Yokobitis puts the lie, you know, puts the, he can show based on what he's done that what you just said is true. That mindset is everything. Paul does not have a limiting mindset. He does not dwell in the negative. He does not accept any artificial caps on what it is that he's doing. He has a firm belief in what he wants to do. He's willing to try new things. He's definitely making sure that the numbers always make sense, which is something that I really respect in the way that he's been able to scale. Um, and so I think Paul, I mean, we've lots of people in the group and in the guild and in the big group who support the position that you just made. But I think Paul's like the perfect example of it because he's just lit the world on fire doing estate planning, which some would view as a commodity. in North Carolina. And he's done it in a way that allows him to have higher-end clients and lower-end clients. And it's just something else.

Tyson:
I just want to pause for a second. And I just love the fact that on the anniversary episode, you're sitting, and I think in an Airbnb, and you can hear the kids in the background yelling. I think it's fantastic.

Jimmy:
It's not my kids, I'm actually in a hotel. It's Nor's friend's little brother. He's screaming for his parents, yes.

Tyson:
Oh, gotcha. But I think it's just apropos. I just think it's so great. But back on track, from day one, Paul Yocobitis has had that killer, like that serial killer mindset, you know what I mean? Like when it comes to just laser focus on the job, right? And it's, I'm going to have a successful law firm. That's what I'm going to have. And he has had that. And it is a… He is, if you've ever talked to Paul, he's a very confident person. And that's a very good thing. Like that confidence in him is excellent. And he knows he's going to succeed and he knows he's going to win. And once you've convinced yourself that is true, you can't be stopped. Like you cannot be stopped. And that's how Paul is. And that's what we're talking about when it comes to mindset. Once you have that killer instinct and that killer mindset, I wouldn't call it a killer instinct because you can learn it, right? Once you have that killer mindset, You cannot be stopped. No, no, no way, no how.

Jimmy:
And it's been fun to watch. It's been fun to see people succeed. It's been fun to see people like Paul really take off. And obviously we don't take any of the credit for Paul, but we're certainly happy and cheering him on. And that sort of gets to what my biggest lesson is, is that, you know, I would say seven years ago, I viewed things a lot more simply, like things were, and you know how black and white I was

Tyson:
Oh

Jimmy:
back.

Tyson:
you were black and white as it can be man, there was zero gray in your world, holy

Jimmy:
This

Tyson:
hell.

Jimmy:
is the best thing ever. This is the worst. This fucking sucks. Like

Tyson:
That

Jimmy:
that,

Tyson:
person's terrible. That person's great.

Jimmy:
I hate that guy. I love that guy.

Tyson:
Yeah.

Jimmy:
Right. And through therapy and through this podcast, one of the things that I've learned is the power of the word and, and it's not but, but it's and. Like owning a law firm is great, and it's hard. owning a law firm can be lonely and you can develop a network of friends. You know, it's sort of the living in the gray area and being comfortable with the discomfort of running a law firm is really what I've learned is that it's not all great and it's not all bad. And that, you know, having, things like exercise or mentors or colleagues to bounce things off of really helps to. keep things in perspective and keep you going.

Tyson:
use the word therapy before this. I will say like the podcast has been pretty therapeutic. It's something that's allowed us to talk things through. There are days, I know there are days for me and I can guarantee it's the same thing for you where we started the podcast that day and we did not want to do it that morning. You know what I mean? Like we just didn't want to do it. By the time the episode was over, I was like, okay, I'm good. I'm good. You just kind of needed that 30 to 45 minutes of talking with someone, you know, just kind of talking it through. And I think that the, when you mentioned therapy, I'm like, oh, it was very therapeutic. I wonder if you realized any of that too.

Jimmy:
Oh, sure. I mean, you know, we're clearly not psychologists and we haven't been trained or anything. But

Tyson:
Not even close.

Jimmy:
but we've had breakthroughs on the podcast. We've had breakthroughs with people on the. hot seats in the guild and we've had people have big breakthroughs at the masterminds, right? And I think that's another great thing that this group has sort of helped me see is that I'll never forget a particular mastermind when one of our favorite guild members was in my group talking about how he just wants to bring in all the cases. And then he said, and let everybody else figure out how to handle all those cases. And I literally turned to him to my left and said, you're an asshole. Why would you do that to your people? And then like, as soon as it left my mouth, I realized that was me. Right? Like I was even worse. I was doing what he was saying out loud worse than he was doing. Right? And so, it's so much easier to see the mistakes that other people are making. And it's also, you know, you can get up to speed a whole lot faster by hearing other people's mistakes and how they overcome them. Like for instance, you know, Brian Mittman, not that he made a mistake, but he got whacked with that ransomware thing. So, you know, I know a lot of people, me included, made sure that we had processes in place to prevent, hopefully, anyone trying to take our data and holding it ransom. So just big and small. with the collective, you can learn things a whole lot faster and get up to speed a whole lot faster.

Tyson:
It's little things like that too. That… You think about all the just… Collective wisdom you think about the actual collective wisdom and I'm talking about when I'm talking about collective wisdom I think people overuse that term. I'm talking about like every episode We've collected just a little bit more wisdom every single time and that one is It's one of those things that you may never need it But I instantly went out and made sure I had that coverage You know what I mean? Like the whenever Brian Whitman talked about that. It was like, okay I've got to make sure I have that coverage because it's important now just a little side tip for everybody It is on many malpractice insurance policies nowadays. So just check your malpractice coverage because you may already have it, but you definitely wanna have that ransomware coverage. Yeah, it's been, I don't know, it's been a cool seven years, man. It's been a really, really cool seven years. I've really enjoyed it. I think that there are times where, like I said, it was just tough getting out of bed because sometimes we were recording these really early in the morning, but it's just been fun. I don't know about you, but I've enjoyed it.

Jimmy:
To me too, and I know you actually I think do this a little even more than I do It's it's those one-on-one conversations away from the podcast through the friends that we've made in the guild Especially but also in the big group and like I can picture right now while we're sitting here Five or six or ten conversations. I've had with a specific person about a specific topic And it's like burned into my brain. Like I know exactly where I was when I was talking to Jane in Miami about having to get rid of some person that was in her life. I don't remember the exact role the person had, but I just remember just being a sounding board for people and just listening to, oh, I can see what you're struggling with. I can see how that drives you crazy and just being able to participate in their greatness is a lot of fun.

Tyson:
That's so cool. I like that phrase, participate in their greatness, because you said it before, it's not because of us, a lot of these attorneys that have done such great things, but it's cool to be able to participate in their greatness. I think that that's a, I'm going to steal that, that's a great line. So all right, man, well, let's wrap things up, hopefully, of your hack ready before we wrap things up. You know what's funny, Jim, this is sort of impromptu, before I tease the rest of this stuff. This is the anniversary episode. Is this a good time to sort of tease that maybe we have something coming back next year? Is this a,

Jimmy:
Oh,

Tyson:
we can

Jimmy:
I don't

Tyson:
leave

Jimmy:
know

Tyson:
it

Jimmy:
about

Tyson:
very

Jimmy:
that.

Tyson:
vague.

Jimmy:
I

Tyson:
Okay.

Jimmy:
think the powers that be might get upset about that. But

Tyson:
Okay, well if she

Jimmy:
those

Tyson:
wants

Jimmy:
again.

Tyson:
to leave that in the episode she can, we'll uh, I'll clip this part of the episode and let her make the decision then.

Jimmy:
Those that can read between the lines might figure that out, but yes.

Tyson:
Exactly right. So, all right. So before we wrap things up, I do want to remind everyone to join us in the big Facebook group. Just great information being shared all the time. There's also Maximum Lawyer Referrals, so I go there on a regular basis, because if we want to refer a case out to people in another state, we do it on a regular basis. So if you do want to share referrals, go to Maximum Lawyer Referrals on Facebook. And if you want a more high-level conversation with amazing people like Jane and Brian Mittman, some other people, on here, Jane Mirrored, by the way, then join us in the guild. Go to maxlawguild.com and while you're listening to the rest of this episode, or if you've been a long-time listener and you really enjoy this podcast, if you give us a five-star review, it definitely does help spread the love. So please do so. Jimmy, what is your hack of the week?

Jimmy:
So we've talked many times on the show about the book Radical Candor, which is a great, great book. And I highly recommend it, but I was on a flight to Nashville I must have been going for work. I was getting sworn in to the Middle District of Tennessee and I ran into the husband of a friend of my wife and he is now a consultant and he was going down to have some hard conversations with a company that his people had taken over and He said that he makes everyone that works with him read this book called Crucial Conversations I don't know if you've read it It's actually, you have it, yeah,

Tyson:
Have it somewhere you help.

Jimmy:
it's about the mechanics of tough conversations and it's very practical in that it has a lot of tips. To me, one thing I've noticed lately is my anger rising during meetings and sort of how, like one, to have the wisdom to pay attention to that. and then to not necessarily act on that. And frankly, I hate to say it, the way this manifests itself is mostly me bickering with Imani in front of the rest of the team, which is not good. So I'm trying some of these skills, but the book itself is really good. It's very digestible and it's very practical. I liked Radical Candor, but I think I like this one a little better.

Tyson:
I think Radical Candor is better, but it doesn't matter. I think they're both extremely valuable books. I agree. That's a really good one. If you have to have tough conversations as a business owner, which you do because you're a business owner, you should read the book. It's a good one. For my tip of the week comes from actually Joe Rogan. And it's funny, for years I've been reading his books. would not watch or listen to Joe Rogan. I didn't like his stuff. And one day I was like, you know what? I'm gonna open my mind up a little bit and just listen to some of the stuff he has to say. And I heard this episode and he was talking about, and by the way, I know he's a controversial person. I don't care. But that's why I didn't listen to him for years.

Jimmy:
Take what you like and leave the rest. That's what they

Tyson:
Exactly.

Jimmy:
say.

Tyson:
That's exactly right. And that's what I did, right? So, and I opened my mind to it, and that's what I did. But I learned this really valuable lesson whenever he was talking about, there's this guy, this really influential guy in his life that was a pool player, right? And not a… It was not a great human being generally, but he said, Joe was talking about this thing that he did that was very, very valuable that helped him throughout his career. And the guy always, no matter what, always found a way to say something nice about anyone, even his enemies, right? And… He noticed it whenever he was all, the guy was always complimenting Joe, right? Always saying, hey, you were really good. And even though Joe knew he was not a good pool player, he would always, the guy would always say, hey, you know, you're a really good pool player, right? But Joe knew better, but it made him feel really good. And he said that every time he had this big match, I don't know what they call them in pool, but this big match against like this guy's, you know, number one, you know, enemy or whatever it would be, opponent, he would always, even if he said something bad about the person, he always found a way to say, but. He can really do this or he's really great at this. And I think that that's really important. It's a good way of flipping sort of your mindset in a moment. You know, I'm really pissed off right now with this person, but they do this really, really well. And I think that lesson is really, really important. And I've been trying to practice over the last week. It's something really hard to do, but I think if you can lock that down, I think it'll benefit you quite a bit. So that's my tip of the week.

Jimmy:
Please.

Tyson:
All right. Anything else, Jimmy?

Jimmy:
No, bud.

Tyson:
Alright, we got in under the wire too, so fantastic.

Jimmy:
Thanks.

Tyson:
It's been a fun seven years, man. Can't wait to do another seven with you, brother. Who knows what's going to be in seven years? AI is going to take over. So just kidding. See you, dude.

Jimmy:
Later. So.

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