In this episode, Jim and Tyson will go through lessons learned and things they liked about this year’s ICON: Infusionsoft User Conference!
http://attendicon.com/about: ICON gathers amazing, brilliant minds in the biggest mastermind you’ve ever seen. ICON is for the hungry – the relentless, tenacious go-getters with a reckless belief in what’s possible, what’s just around the corner. – See more at: http://attendicon.com/about#sthash.4eBpGtQv.dpuf
ICON 18: http://attendicon.com/:
Marcus Lemonis is a successful entrepreneur and star of CNBC’s The Profit and The Partner. – See more at: http://attendicon.com/about/contest/meet-the-profit#sthash.0vNjXSvO.dpuf
“Stay focused, work hard, know your numbers, and be disciplined. If you do those things and take care of your people, the likelihood of being successful is very, very high.”
Culture is the Game Changer
Taking your business to the next level is possible when you get your people strategy right and build a winning culture. Learn how to make culture your strategy and multiply your business. From identifying and communicating a meaningful purpose for your business to hiring and motivating the right people, you can confidently grow your business through culture. – See more at: http://attendicon.com/speakers/hal-halladay#sthash.n2CNktU4.dpuf
How This UK Accountancy Firm Has Used Infusionsoft To Automate EVERYTHING – See more at: http://attendicon.com/speakers/james-ashford#sthash.bhGoJ0xw.dpuf
The Nature of Nurture: Increasing Conversions for Free – See more at: http://attendicon.com/speakers/greg-jenkins#sthash.xGo5Mt2S.dpuf
Customers buy when they’re ready to buy. And if someone opts in to your list and isn’t ready to whip out their credit card, something has to bridge that gap. The answer is Nurture. Nurture is the process of building relationships. It’s about establishing yourself as an expert, developing rapport, and most importantly, delivering value. In this session you’ll discover all the places nurture fits into your funnel, the most common misconceptions about lead nurture, and the proven best practices for designing your own nurture process. – See more at: http://attendicon.com/speakers/greg-jenkins#sthash.xGo5Mt2S.dpuf
VENDORS Tyson has signed up to.
https://www.appointmentcore.com/: Automate Your Appointment Setting Process for Your Infusionsoft & Google Calendar
https://sotellus.com/: The soTellUs app lets you take your phone or tablet into the field with you to get customer reviews on the spot. You’re able to say to your customer, “Love our service? So tell us…”
Tyson’s tip: An app. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mail-cleaner/id977528375?mt=8
It helps you keep your mail inbox organized and clean.
Hacking’s hack: To read 2 books at the same time! Take 2 books about business and read one chapter at a time, alternating chapters. The idea is to find connections over the 2 books and to pull out new ideas from them.
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Transcripts: ICON 17. Everything You Need to Know
As an attorney, if you do just a minimal amount of marketing and a minimal amount of, you know, focusing on improving systems in your business that you don’t have to do a ton of things, you don’t have to do 1000 things if you just do the basics and the blocking and tackling and making sure that you’re not leaving leads to wither on the vine that you’re not, you’re just following up just real basic stuff. I think those kinds of things really can take your business a whole lot forward. And a lot of times you want to focus on the
run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum layer podcast via podcast, your hosts, Jim hacking, and Tyson nutrix. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm.
Welcome to the show. Welcome back to the maximum lawyer Podcast. I’m Jim hacking
and on tasty nutrition. Jimmy, you are reporting live from the basement of immigration in St. Louis, Missouri. How is that going?
That’s true. I’m the only person here I’m in the federal building. There’s not many early birds here at 712 in the morning. So I’m not surprised that I basically have the whole cafeteria to myself.
And I’m surprised that you have such good cell reception. So that’s pretty good, too. Pretty cool topic today. We had a pretty good title icon last week. I sort of tease what the topic is when it sells WhatsApp again.
For those of you who might have seen us on the maximum lawyer Facebook page, we went live for a little bit while we were out in Phoenix, Tyson and I attended the annual Infusionsoft convention known as icon 17. It’s held in Phoenix every year. We are regular attendees and have really enjoyed it over the years. And so this week, we’re going to talk about some of the lessons that we learned and things that we liked about it. So why don’t you start off Tyson?
Yeah, so there were, geez, several sessions you could attend as I go through the things that I liked about it, but basically what iKON is, it’s a Tuesday, Wednesday Thursday event, it starts off with opening ceremonies. And then you’ve got just session after session, things you can attend, they’ve got about five to seven sessions, each block of time that you can actually attend. So there’s lots of stuff going on. You can meet one or business coaches, you can meet one on one with vendors, both of which are extremely helpful. And then they also have big speakers come in and speak and the two big speakers. Well, there’s really three big speakers that spoke. So there was Jillian Michaels, there was Marcus Lemonis, there was Lisa Nichols. And then Vern Harnish was the last speaker, I’d say my favorite part of the the entire event was probably one just hanging out with you and John Fisher and getting the talking about business. I think that that is probably my favorite thing. And then also breakfast as well. But I’d say next to that would be listening to Marcus Lemonis speak, it was phenomenal. If you’ve never heard him speak, it’s nothing like the TV shows. It was incredible. He told, very heart wrenching, deep stories about himself. The idea was about personal connection, which we’re going to do a podcast on, coming up shortly. But he basically started the entire speech by he was out in the crowd, no one knew he was out of the crowd. The only time he stepped on stage was to actually exit, which was pretty cool. He was down out in the crowd the entire time. But he started by telling personal stories about himself. The reason why he did that is in a sort of pause. He says Do you feel that connection we have now. And it was true. And you feel like you have a personal connection with him. That was really cool. And then he had people stand up and tell stories about themselves things that they never told anyone. And then gentleman stood up. And he said that when he was nine, I believe he said was nine years old. My mom told me that she had to do it all over again. She never had me like he was the very first person that spoke. It was incredible. And everyone had this really deep connection with him. And Marga says, you know, wouldn’t you want to do if price product, everything else was the same? Wouldn’t you want to do business with that guy? It was true. It was absolutely true. And so he did that with several people. And it was really incredible. And so I’d say that that was probably the most impactful thing that I took away. I have a notebook full of notes, takeaways, because it’s just such a good conference. And it’s it’s not just for people that have Infusionsoft. It’s not it’s for everybody. There are several people there that don’t have Infusionsoft. And they go it’s such a great event. And so each one of the sessions you have you have options of going to sub sessions that have nothing to do with Infusionsoft. It’s just about business and referrals, referral building and whatever it may be. So I’ve talked for a long time, Jimmy, but that was my biggest takeaway from from Infusionsoft.
We’re big fans of the prophet at our house. I want With the boys every week when new episodes drop, he also just had a second show called The partner where he was taking on an assistant basically. And so we’ve seen that hard edge side of Marcus negotiating with business owners, and you know, just playing hardball, running a business. And we’ve gotten, I’ve learned a lot of lessons, just the Washington show, you know, talks about people process and product. And just seeing the way his mind works on the show has been enlightening. But his speech, as you mentioned, was not at all what I expected, I thought he’d be standing up behind the podium talking about the three P’s, which he always says on TV, instead, we’re treated to something completely different. I mean, he got up and talked about how he was adopted from an orphanage in Lebanon when he was nine months old, how he never felt like you sit in how he never felt comfortable, how he felt invisible. And that’s how he started his talk. He said, You know, don’t let your employees or your customers feel invisible. And he and he came out from the crowd, and he was wearing a plaid flannel shirt in blue jeans. And he basically walked around pacing around the room, as you said, talking to different people getting them to open up, and really to share their vulnerabilities. And, you know, some people in the room were like, Ooh, I hope he doesn’t call on me. But I love all that techy, woowoo stuff. So I was really hoping you call on me, but he didn’t. But anyway, he really came across as genuine, when he told the stories about his own struggles with suicidal thoughts and being molested and struggling with bulimia. And then when the man shared about his mom not wanting him and the other lady sharing about how she’d been raped in the military, it was just, I know, we’re making it sound like a big Drama Fest. But it was just this one session that was so powerful. And last year, Gary Vaynerchuk, broke. And Gary was the main keynote speaker, and his speech was very, very good. And his presentation was awesome. But it was just fundamentally different. And I think a lot of people that I’ve talked to, since the event have said that Marcus’s talk has really stuck with them. So I share your thought that that was the highlight of the trip. Did you want to talk about that more? And then I can tell you some other thoughts I have?
Yeah. So I think that it was not only was it very impactful, but it just it also it was a great lesson. I mean, he didn’t stand up and say, We need to tell stories about yourself and your business that somebody said he actually use it as an example. And that was was really interesting is like, it was a huge takeaway. So that’s one of the first things that I wanted to do. And I got back, you know, we got started telling more stories, you know, we have to tell more stories about ourselves, whenever we’re, we’re meeting with clients and actually marketing clients, because that’s what they want to hear you develop that connection. So it really was a great lesson. And it wasn’t just the whole passionate emotional speech that that we were talking about if there was a business lesson to it. And so that was that was really incredible. The importance of that having the vendors there was great. I actually signed up with two vendors. While I was there, I think it was only two, maybe three. And that was several, but I don’t know how many probably close to 50 vendors there. But I met with appointment core appointment core is going to help automate my appointment scheduling and also set up reminders and things like that. We do that through Infusionsoft now. But it’s they they actually simplify it, that was a great benefit there. But they’re the vendors that are there to help you improve your business. And then the other one was is really cool, which I’ve already been using is an app called so tell us and honestly, when I first saw it, I sort of mocked it and thought it was a joke. And then we actually wouldn’t talk to them and do a little research on it. And it’s pretty incredible. And you’ve got this app you have to pay for you don’t have to pay to download it, we have to pay for their service, the first month was free if you want to icon, and then it’s $99 a month, the normal price for it is 399 for the basic kit that you just set up, and then one month, so it’s a pretty damn good deal with icon. And it’s this app where you you can do video reviews, or it really any type of review. But for me effort, I think of a case, you basically canceled a check, and so they’re happy. And so you do do a video review. And what it does, it automatically populates to your website, because there’s a widget that they give you the part of the service, and it automatically populates to your website immediately. It is immediate. So every time somebody goes to your website, they can see these video reviews with your star rating. And they also aggregate your star rating from places like Facebook, Yelp, Google, all the major Review Services. And they actually actually aggregate those nodes are listed on your website too, which is a really, really cool thing. I had just a few weeks ago talked to a with a marketing guy who has a big thing that what he does, and puts at the top of his website and he said it increases conversion by quite a bit. Also, it allows you to get Google reviews and they because you can’t use the same IP address repeatedly. They gotta well work around with that. So you hand them your phone and if any Four or five stars, well allow them to sends a message to their own cell phones again to them, if they give to a three star or below, thank you for your review, and it doesn’t push them down the path any further. But what they do they if you get a four or five star review, they put in their cell phone number, it sends them a text message so that so then they finish the review from their cell phone. And it’s pretty simple, because they’ve got this copy Review button. So the review that they’ve already typed into your cell phone, they just copy it. And then they just paste to your Google page with directions from directly to it. So your Google page, and really, you can choose Yelp, Google, whatever you want them to give them wherever you want them to give the review on. And they can do it. And so it is really interesting, really easy to do, you can have them giving a review in less than a minute, is super fast. So those are the two main vendors that I talked to, I’d also talked to a virtual CFO company out of Kansas City, which is pretty cool. They were J hawk and K State fans. So that wasn’t a big thing for me. But some of the zoo fan, I wasn’t happy about that, but that they’re, they’re good people. Good part of is you’re talking about these vendors, and they really give you great ideas on how to prove your business. And then one of my other favorite parts is actually met with a business coach, this is part of the conference they like to do for free. And so Infusionsoft has built a system for how they train and improve businesses. It’s really cool. And so what the business coach does is they walk you through the process. And then it allows you to identify problems or opportunities with your business, I identified quite a few opportunities with my business. And the great thing is I can use Infusionsoft to really improve those parts of our business and capture those opportunities. So that’s something that I’ll be working on over the next few weeks.
So as you know, Tyson, I have a love hate relationship with the vendors. Because when the big talks are going on, and people are trying to get people to drop big, big money at the conference, I always have to leave the room because I’m a sucker for those pitches,
or for the listeners. If you have something to sell, call Jimmy first. He’ll buy it from me. He’s a sucker. So make sure you call him for it, because we’ll make sure you make sure to buy.
I absolutely admit that is true. You and I laugh about a time we were at the info summit for Dan Kennedy. And I was like running around from thing to thing trying to buy stuff. And he talked me out of it. So I was greatly appreciative of that. But yeah, so I did meet with some of the vendors, I also signed up for appointment core, I think we’re going to have been, because one of the founding members of appointment core on the show, and a couple of weeks, he’s agreed to come on. And I think that I’m working with Kelsey, my Infusionsoft guy to set up appointment core for the team, I think it’s gonna allow a lot of automation. And it’s funny, I was explaining how we’re going to use appointment core to schedule appointments, and then to notify clients by text and email. And I was explaining that to someone yesterday. And they said, oh, so that means the person who does it now is going to lose your job, I said, actually know what it’s going to allow us to do is have that person work for Amani, one of the other lawyers in our office sort of full time as opposed to wasting time making phone calls and tracking down people to reschedule or schedule or remind them of their appointment. So we’re excited about that. I thought the vendors were good, I didn’t think the crowd was as big as usual. But I think the crowd was energized. I think that there were some vendors that I sort of found to be annoying, there was that one guy who’s supposedly makes you a celebrity by figuring out ways to get you on local television, and to speak at Harvard, I thought he was really cheesy. But you know, with all things, you take the good and you leave the bad and don’t worry about it. So I think that you’re right, the vendors are definitely one of the highlights of the trip. Another one for me is just getting to talk to random people. And some of our best ideas and thoughts, I think come from those conversations we have at the lunches, which is just you sitting with you know, I sort of tried to stay away from people like you and Jason that I knew, just because I knew that I would get more out of talking to people that I hadn’t met before and hearing how people were using the software. One lady that we both had lunch with was a yoga instructor and she uses videos and Infusionsoft to teach people how to do yoga and as a lead magnet, and I signed my wife up for it. And she loves the video. So she’s been getting a lot out of that. So I think that there’s just a lot of positive energy, a lot of good vibes. And I think that, you know, there’s the practical things that you can learn. But also, I think that just getting away from the business, and having that time to think of the bigger thoughts. And to me, it also helps me get off things that have been sort of sitting on my desk and it makes me decide, am I going to do X, Y, or Z or am I not it’s just sort of a break, to sort of have you reset and look at things again.
Yeah, it’s one of those things where whenever I leave the event like that will give a chance to reset and also gives you that time to really think you know, really think about your business and just, you’re not in the middle of your business. So you’re actually able to To think about things and how can I improve things, I came up with so many new ideas. It’s incredible. I mean, I’ll never be able to implement all of the ideas. But there’s a lot of them are already implemented. And it really has improved my business. And so I think you said on the first day, after quite mass, but like this was worth the entire conference, and absolutely, absolutely, it was, it was only 399 to go to the conference, and you get so much you get to, you get to meet with a business coach for an hour. Before this, it’s included in the conference fee, it doesn’t cost you anything additional, that alone is worth going to a conference like this. No, I’m not trying to sell people to go to conference. But I’m just saying, this is such a worthwhile conference to go to, it’s so fantastic. But when I left and I’m still energized from it, I was so energized, we were on that plane flying back, even though we didn’t have Wi Fi, which is frustrating. But you still if you have this energy after you leave a conference like that, and it’s a great just motivated to push you forward. And it’s a great way to break up your year so that you can really just like you said, reset, and then really get going on on some new ideas. Yeah, and
you know, I’m glad you mentioned that clay mask presentation, because he was the leadoff speaker. He’s the one of the founding members of Infusionsoft. And one of the things for me, my goal and going to infusion Con this year, was to really focus on the during unit, I was going to channel, my inner Thyssen and figure out ways that we can build out systems for the providing of legal services, I think that the marketing and the before unit for us is really strong. And right now we’re at sort of the point where we really need to get more efficient and more systematical about how we do things. And so that was sort of my marching orders going in and, and clay talked about just doing the basics. And I think that if you, as an attorney, if you do just a minimal amount of marketing and a minimal amount of you know, focusing on improving systems in your business, that you don’t have to do a ton of things, you don’t have to do 1000 things if you just do the basics and the blocking and tackling and making sure that you’re you know, not leaving leads to wither on the vine that you’re not, you know, you’re just following up just real basic stuff, I think those kinds of things really can take your business a whole lot for it. A lot of times we want to focus on the ninja aspects of cool things that you know, sound really cool, like we met a guy who has a pretty cool business that allows you to do that Facebook messaging with a bot. And you know, that’s something that in the old days, I’d be really drawn to, and I’d sign up for it. But it doesn’t make any sense for me right now is something sophisticated and it’s at a higher level. So I really focused on, you know, just learning about Infusionsoft at very basic level and thinking about ways that we can implement it in the in the daily things that we actually do instead of getting drawn into all the shiny objects like I usually do. Yeah, you’re definitely
the shiny object guy. No, I think we all are to some extent, it’s easy to do. So I will lacking too much for it because I did sign up for to better as long as out there. So I can’t really can’t really can’t say much. I do want to talk about a few of the sessions that I’ve gone to went to and I think you’re gonna probably talk about a couple of years as well. But I had gone to something I’ve been trying to do is launch a referral program. It’s hard to do as a personal injury attorney to launch your typical referral program, because you can’t decide you can say, hey, you know, send me five cases, I’ll give you six case free or something like that just doesn’t work that way. So I’ve been trying to come up with creative ways of doing it. And it’s really interesting to me, I went to a one by Greg Jenkins, who is a friend of yours and Jason Osterley. And I gotta get to meet him as well. Really nice guy. And he had, he was one of the guys that built campaigns for marketer of the year are one of the finalists. And he has this one called launching a referral program that scales. And it was more directed towards people that have products or services that actually can be marketed in the traditional ways. But it did give me a lot of really good ideas. And it gives him give me the bones on how to actually start a referral program was really interesting to me. And he was actually given away his slides for free. So if you want to see those two, I just I would just Google Greg Jenkins, Infusionsoft I’m sure on his website, he said on his homepage, you can just enter in your email address. So that was a really good one because I really had zero ideas on how to actually start a referral program it just made you think, Oh, that couldn’t be that easy, but it was pretty complicated. He got pretty deep into actually how you can divvy up the money and a lot of other things. It’s just the basics of it. Were really, really great. So I highly recommend you check that out because a big part of my businesses is actually getting referrals from other attorneys. And so I wanted to increase that by quite a bit. And so that was a great way of doing so if you’ve got a business where it’s based on referrals, that’s a good way a good way. It’s something good to look at. Another one that I went to was by Michael Adelman. He’s a big Infusionsoft guy. And it was, the name of it was had to do with tagging and Infusionsoft. But that really wasn’t the message I didn’t think the message is, is that just segmenting your lists of people that you that you market to or they communicate with on a regular basis, in keeping that list clean. So this is one of the examples of that topic may have been about Infusionsoft or at least the subject line, it was about Infusionsoft. But it really wasn’t really deeper, where you really need to focus your marketing, keep your your marketing lists separate, that we have confusing the message. And so it was a really, really good one. And it, it really gave you an idea of how to go back to the basics of reset, and restructure how you’re communicating with people. So I thought that that was a really good session get to as well, Jimmy, I want to talk about a couple. My
Highlights included two presentations by a guy named James Ashford James is from the UK. And he came across the pond to talk to us about actually advising accountants on how to run their practices and how to maximize the revenues and develop new clients and to build out system. So I thought that given the topic of our podcasts and the work that you and I do to try to help lawyers increase business and run their practice better, that he’d be a good person for me to go see, I went to both of his sessions, you went to one of them, I thought he was fantastic. And it really worked out well for me, because I ended up tweeting him back and forth. And we actually met for coffee. And I got to go into the Icahn VIP lounge with him and have chocolate chip cookies, and talk about how to run my practice. So that was a real highlight for me. And that’s one of the things about going to conferences is you get a chance to talk to the speakers that are a lot more accessible than they would be if I were just trying to email him from St. Louis to London. So that was a highlight the other highlight that I’ll make, I’ll make a deal with you. I did not get to attend Greg Jenkins session on referral marketing and referral network. But I did attend his session on nurture campaigns. And so often nurture, I think about is just my weekly newsletter, that that’s sort of a fallback, nurture. But nurture can be more than that. And it can be segmented. And what I mean by that is that, you know, right now, people would get a few emails from us. And then after a while, they sort of just fall off into our weekly email campaign. And, and Greg was talking about developing a better nurture campaign, one that’s more particularized based on the conduct of the person, and on the topic that they’re interested in. And so that was a really good presentation. So we’ll put up that link to the slide deck for Greg’s presentations on the show notes. So those are really two highlights. For me and Tyson, I think we are running out of time. So we should probably get talking about our hacking Tip of the Week.
Yeah, before we get to that I want to do one more session, which I almost forgot about. And it was the name of was culture is the game changer, John Fisher was was in on that one as well. It’s by how Halladay and he his title at Infusionsoft is Chief People Officer, it was really interesting to see them talking about the core values. And it really was interesting to see how they, how they bring in new people, how they offer the $5,000 for people to leave. It’s a really, really cool thing. So if you ever have a chance to look into it, check in to see how Infusionsoft hires and fires people after I don’t remember how many weeks that people are there. But they say here’s a check for $5,000 If you want to leave, because they know the value of having a person there that doesn’t want to be there for a long time, they cost them a lot of money. And so they give the example of a salesperson that they pay about $150,000 a year in all costs, if there were to train that that person and how much opportunity cost there is because the opportunity is lost because that person doesn’t want to be there. So they’re not hustling. So they’re not actually trying to get business. They’re just sort of there and go to the movement go through the motions. And they estimated cost them about a half a million dollars or more to actually bring on a bad person. So they want to fire them at the fastest or the earliest opportune time. Because they want to save themselves some money so that $5,000 saves them hundreds of 1000s of dollars. So it’s really interesting. And I don’t want to talk about too much because I know we’re run out of time. But to make sure that just check that out. Because if you want to find out about how Infusionsoft does it, it’s really interesting. I wish I
could pay you $5,000 and make you go away.
Hey, you know what, Jimmy? You go ready, give me $5,000 We’ll continue the podcast but you might give me $5,000 With all that immigration money come in.
That’d be great if I can get you to move away from St. Louis. Oh,
yes, it would, yes, it would. Alright, here we go do your hack of the week.
For my hack of the week, it’s sort of an unusual thing that I like to do. And I’ve been doing it more than that we’ve gotten back from infusion con. And that is to read two books at the same time. Now, that sounds like a crazy notion. But what I mean by that, what I like to do is to take two books about business and read them one chapter at a time, alternating chapters, and I often find connections between the two books, and it really helps me to pull out ideas out of the book. This is usually for audiobooks, I usually can see connections and patterns in the things that the two books even if they’re completely unrelated, I might be listening to a biography of some old Titan. And then I might be reading a book on how to improve systems in 2017. And, and seeing the two things work together. It’s a really interesting way to sort of make your way through what can be sometimes the content.
Good one, that’s a good way of doing it. I like that. That’s interesting. Wow, that seems like it’s a very time consuming way of getting through books. But that’s what’s really interesting. My tip of the week is I think, way to save a lot of people a lot of headache. All right. It’s an app called mail cleaner, just like yourself, it’s two words, ma io cleaner, CL EA en er, alright, so what it does is I’m one of those people that I keep all my emails, so I can search for them later. And so I’ve got a ton of messages in my inbox, I use it sort of like a file system where I can actually just keep up with and as reference later, but I realized that that’s probably not the best thing to do. And there’s a lot of emails in there that I need to get rid of. So mail cleaner, what it does, is it groups your emails by the sender. And so you may have, for example, I had 49 emails from Lee Rosen in my inbox, right? And I’m done with them, I don’t need to, I don’t need to go back and reread those emails. So I was able to delete big chunks of emails at one time. So it’s really interesting, and you can archive them. So it’s mostly for Gmail, I think. So you don’t have Gmail. And we use Google Apps for Business. So it’s basically Gmail. So you can actually use if you have G Suite, which is the new name for Google Apps for Business, you can use it, which if you don’t, you should, because it’s really, really great. But it has reduced the size of my inbox, as it looked at the actual numbers, but it goes by 1000s. So it really is effective. So I highly recommend it. I will tell you after your fifth deletion, it costs you 999 For the app $9.99. I think it’s worth it, I would have paid a lot more for it if I had to, to clean up my inbox. So it’s something that I highly recommend is the mail cleaner app.
That’s it. So we have some exciting guests coming up. I think you’ve got a couple lined up for us and I have one so we’re looking forward to future episodes. If you like our podcast, please share it with your friends on social media. Please join our Facebook group. There’s been a lot of good discussions in there lately. And if you have any thoughts or you want to be on the show, give Tyson or me a call and we’d be happy to talk through with seeing if there’s ways that we can help you.