This week we’re sharing a speaking engagement from attorney Sandy Van at MaxLawCon19. Sandy teaches us how to make your firm run more efficiently with systems and processes.
Sandy Van, Esq., is the managing partner and owner of Van Law Firm located in Las Vegas, Nevada. Van Law Firm practices in personal injury law, 1983 civil rights claims, class action lawsuits, and mass torts law. Van Law Firm has also won several awards from Yelp, Super Lawyers, Desert Magazine, Nevada Business Press, Avvo and Nevada Legal Services Pro Bono Attorney of the Year.
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Transcripts: “How to Make Your Law Firm Run More Efficiently” with Sandy Van
Unknown Speaker
Run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum lawyer podcast, podcast, your hosts, Jim hacking and Tyson metrics. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.
Sandy Van
In today’s episode, we’re throwing it back to a presentation from Max law con 2019. Attorney Sandy van from Dan law firm in Las Vegas, Nevada shares how to make your law firm run more efficiently with systems and processes. Don’t forget to head on over to the website maximum lawyer.com To register for Max law con 2020. So you can experience these speakers firsthand. Let’s get to it. Okay, so we’re in talking about like systems and processes. They originally wanted me to talk about my virtual assistants. But I’ll kind of incorporated a little bit in my presentation. A lot of businesses that are more systematic, they succeed. And these are the statistics oops, go back. 80% of small businesses fail within the first five years. And then like 90% of franchises do succeed in five years. So trying to do lesson business. Hopefully everyone has that. I know this is going to be hard to read. But these are things that here’s a list of things that you could systematize and processes in your office, I’m sure they’re gonna give you the slides. So we can talk about a few of the things that we do, we systematize hiring, we’re getting better at it, I’m going to like study up more on it, we actually build a bench, we save people, everyone sends their resumes and applies through indeed zip recruiter, or Craigslist. And it all goes to jobs at Van law firm.com. And we will categorize people by like 10s, nines and eights. And you know, if you’re receptionist 10 or receptionist, nine receptionist aide, so that we can go back when we have the need like, like we just had a need for a paralegal. And we could fill it really quickly. Because we had everyone categorized, we’re like, hey, we already hired you this time. But can we keep you for next time in case you know that need comes up? We can just go back in there. So we systematize that we also have interview questions. So one of my virtual assistants will call them and ask them a list of questions like hey, what was your strength? What was your weakness? Who’s? Who are we going to talk to when we call and check your references? What would the rate you so there’s a questionnaire that they ask. And then we have like an interview checklist when we meet with the potential candidate. So we systematize that we systematize onboarding. So when someone comes into our office, and it’s their first day, we do have like a list of things that we’re gonna go through with them, you know, like, hey, how to use the ScanSnap, you know, or here’s everyone in the office and what they do, here’s how to log into your computer, how to E, fax, Gmail, stuff like that, and how to go through our file line. So we’ll go through our file line and every tab. So make sure that you systematize that another thing that we do is onboarding and off boarding, you know, so that I can get all those people out of my emails and the faxes and things like that, get them logged out. Other things that we systematize settlements and disbursements. We’re a personal injury firm. You know, if someone slips and falls in Las Vegas, who do you call Sandy van,
Sandy Van
or, you know, Otto, we also do mass torts. So I was figuring out, I’m like, Hey, I’ve got a lot of money stuck in my trust account, and I need to get it out. So we were just like, systematizing our settlements. So we have like a checklist just for how to settle things and get them dispersed faster. So that, you know, someone doesn’t mess up and they can go through things faster. Okay, standard operating procedures, you should have this for every little task that you do. Like we have it for everything in our office, it gives you you know, consistency, cookie cutter way of doing things. If anyone’s ever read the book, E Myth, it says, make everything a cookie cutter thing of, you know, so that any person can just pick up and do it. If you sell the company, they already have your systems and they can just plug and play. You can put a binder you can use a binder of commonly used things you know if it’s the phone list or common providers, or how to contact the DMV or something, you can use a binder on everyone’s desk, and it just protects how everything is done, you know, so that you have less mistakes. So we do you know, Ryan was talking about tetra, so Tetra is our wiki. So like Wikipedia, where you go there for your encyclopedia, and it’s very organized. It’s the how like here’s how to guide of some of the things that we have in there. There’s a referral code if you want to sign up for Tetra. So we have our phone lists in their medical provider lists in there, how to contact them. Everything that you have in your firm, you should put the how tos jumps in Tetra or something like it. I like how it’s laid out, though. So this is one of my favorites how to calendar because people would put things and I’m like, I don’t know if I’ve paid for it. Am I going to a webinar? Do I have a link? Where am I showing up to what’s the address? You know, so the great thing about it is that you can actually put a video, so there’s a link to a video in case that person is like, I must watch videos to learn. So maybe someone is they’re impatient, they’re like, I don’t want to go through a 30 minute video or whatever. And I just want to read the steps. You know, so we wrote down the steps, if they’re just that type of person, you know, you’d have these people that are auditory or, you know, visual, you have it visually. So we can show you taking screenshots and you put it into this Tetra software, it’s on the cloud, you can log in from anywhere and figure out how to do things, then you have it also drafted out and like the pictures or whatever, with lines and stuff like that, how we want things calendered. Another way to systematize your business is by using case management software, case management software. I know some people don’t use it, I don’t understand that they did a study, and it could increase your ROI by 4,055%. And I know someone had mentioned it earlier, where you can spend the time, just slow down, spend the time and do something so that you’ll have it forever. You know, like, originally, when I was doing it, I wanted to learn it. So I spent some time coding my own things. And it was kind of very zen like, you know, so I would code all of our letters. And I’ll show you an example of that later. And if it’s meant to, if I took an hour and a half to code something, if my staff is using it, let’s say three times or four times, they’re gonna get that hour back, you know, an hour and a half back, I’ll make my money on that. So just spend the time to code your documents, if you have a document generation program, you know, it’s faster and more efficient, less mistakes, I see a lot of firms, we actually work with 20 other firms. So I see a lot of firms, they’re opening their word document, and then cutting and pasting. And then they’ve left something else in there, you know, the old person’s name or something, they have mistakes in there, you know, if you’re coding your documents, you’re gonna have less mistakes, better results, you can use lower skilled people, they’re not gonna have to type out a letter, that’s just, you know, press a button, change something to his her ad lib in this underlined part, or this highlighted part, things like that. And it just frees you up to work on other things. So you’re gonna save a lot more time. And then here’s like a guide of pros and cons of case management system and without practice management system. So this is our case management system. So we use File mine, I have researched this, and it’s a love hate relationship with file mine, they don’t do everything. I would not use it if you were billing time. But I have researched a lot of systems. And I do think it’s like probably one of the best systems out there for especially for PII or anything that’s flat fee. Okay, so we can put someone in there, when we meet them for an intake, let’s say they’re coming into our office, and we just put their name in there. And let’s say we put Jane Doe. And then I can go down and press a button, and I can generate all of her documents. So I can go press a button and I can generate her intake documents. So her HIPAA or high tech or general release her Medicare forms, one package of like 10 pages, everything that I need, is going to print with her date of loss, the date that she’s getting this notarized today’s date, the date of the intake, and all that stuff is just going to generate now all I need to do is print, you can go send it via DocuSign if you want to. So we have a lot of letters document in our program, we have like 250 letters, and pleadings and different things. In our doc Jen, we do like pro rata, the medical, so we’re getting medical records, we’re requesting it via high tech, it’s attaching to it, you know, you can generate reductions, you can generate disbursement letters, you can just generate a lot in there. So your documents, you can just put, like, whatever code you want to name it, you know, if you don’t like the word defendant, you can name it three P or whatever, third party and you just coat it and then you press a button later on. It’ll put all those fields in there from your case management system. So if you had the adjusters name, in your case management system, it’ll just put the adjusters name the adjusters company address and the date of loss and claim number and everything. Here’s our high tech, you know, with it generated in there, so I just press a button and like two minutes later, we’ll have something just to print to PDF and fax out. And then you know we leave these little yellow lines just remind the client where to sign. So that’s it Something from our intake, Doc’s our general releases, we just generate those workflows. So you can also do workflows in your case management system. So you should really spend the time to document every little step in your process. And sometimes you want to go through it. And maybe you just have like stickies and say, which one of these steps do we not need? Or do we need to change up because it’s holding up your system. So yeah, we have all those steps. And then they can automatically be delegated to a certain person. So I can change the face, say this person is treating, and then 10 tasks will pop up. And then maybe that task is for the runner to go pick up the police report or something or this person to pull the policy limits, or whatever, we can have all that generated. So workflows, think that through delegation is key. So I’ve been in coaching for like, 10 years, I kind of stopped coaching, I’m probably gonna get back into it. But my coach gave me a very good example of why you need to delegate because I see a lot of people, they’re doing their own. They’re doing everything, they’re doing a lot of admin work. And it’s not a good idea. So he gave us the example of this, and it really hit home. So I’m going to do it. It’s funny. So let’s say that you are like a personal injury attorney and you are sending out, you’re creating your own binders. Okay, so I’m creating my binders. Okay, now, I’m gonna go do the demand letters. Okay. And then now I’m going to litigate some cases, all of a sudden, you have like, we’ve pieced it out, it’s probably like 180 tasks, you’re, you know, you’re talking to Medicare, you’re getting a rental car, you’re gathering medical records, you’re talking to clients doing intakes. And sooner or later you, you go on vacation, or you get sick with the flu for two weeks, and all those plates that you’re spinning, they’re gonna all fall, you know. So yeah. Darren Hardy, he’s a editor in chief of Success Magazine, which think thinking Grow Rich, Napoleon Hill was the original like editor. And he made his like, first million, like when he was like, 18, or 20, or something like that. And he was a realtor. And he said, I’m going to concentrate on the $500 an hour tasks, so that I can do all that, and make enough money. So I can hire more people at 10 to $15 an hour. So he was a realtor, and he like pieced it out, and I have a real estate company as well. So you know, I don’t need to go get the comps, I don’t need to go put on a lockbox what are the most highest and most productive uses of time, you know, it was maybe driving buyers around going on listing presentations, and maybe cold calling, those are the highest and most productive use of time, maybe for you. Maybe it’s, you know, I don’t know, auditing your cases or something. I don’t know what your most highest and productive use of time is. But maybe it’s networking. Maybe it’s working on your blog, I’m not sure what your most highest and productive use of time is. But you should be doing more of that and not faxing and gathering medical records and, you know, fixing your computer or whatever. I see a lot of attorneys doing that. Darren Hardy interviewed Dr. Oz and he said, How do you do all this your Columbia professor, you’re a best selling author, you’ve got like this TV show, you’ve got like 400 books, and you still do like 100 surgeries. And he said, I don’t do much of anything, someone’s cutting that person open, you know, someone’s sewing them back up, someone’s sanitizing my instruments, someone’s writing my books, you know, practicing with me on my TV show. And then I get to do all this stuff, because I just need to do the most highest dollar items. So Sam Walton quotes, hire good people that again, is like with our system and processes, we only have a players at our firm. Like if there’s a beat player, I’m like, seek and destroy, let’s fire that person. So you’ve got to get good people, and then trust them and then check on them. So this is our it’s an older one, because my assistant was like out. So we just put one up. This is our org chart. So we have a team of people. So we at first I was like, hey, I want everyone to do everything. I want them to be well rounded. If they ever leave here, I want them have a good skill set. And then I’m like, okay, they’re not good at that. You know, not everyone is good at that. Like there’ll be something that they don’t like maybe they don’t want to get subrogation, open health insurance, subrogation open, and then my case is sitting there. And I’m not getting paid because this person is like there’s one task that’s important in this chain that I don’t want to do, and I’m not going to do it. So or maybe it was demands, maybe they’re really slow at demands, and you know, they’d just hold up my money and I didn’t like that at all. So we just made it so that certain people would do certain things. So we have like one person that just does property damage a few people that just do demands all day, medical summaries, settlements, like a team that does settlements. And that’s, that’s their skill set. And that’s what they’re doing. We do have pods. So we have case managers that manage the cases and talk to clients and do the higher level stuff. They are like air traffic control, you know, they know what’s going to happen next, if something happens with the car, they understand, and they can get themselves out of that mess. But then they have claims assistants that are like their right hand in house that helped them, you know, with their little tasks that they need to do. And we do have a bunch of virtual assistants, we have like 70, virtual assistants that work in our firm, and they do a lot of the other stuff. So our virtual assistants are pretty cool. I’ll talk about that a little bit later. But yeah, we’ve got it broken up. If I wanted to go on vacation for a month, I could, like I don’t really do much in my office, unless I want to do that task. I pretty much come in and sign checks now. Okay, so I’ve gotten it systematized where I’ve got the right butts in the right seats, doing the right things. So make sure that you measure things and have the biggest impact. So I would say like we were trying to increase our case value, you know, and it was auditing our cases, because we just need to audit our cases more often. So that we could see any issues like the client isn’t treating, they’re sitting at home smoking pot, because that they think that that’s going to you know, solve their issues or whatever, and I need to have a conversation with that person will probably not me, but someone else does. Another attorney in our office does. But you just want to find the issues so that you can correct them before it’s too late to fix. Other things that you can measure, you can measure your costs and your expenses, and then see what you can bring down, like, hey, maybe there’s some emails that you aren’t using. Or maybe you get a new cleaning company or something, telephone company. So these are some common costs that you might want to look at. And then it adds up. And then you know how much money you’re making. This is our tracker. So we have one on our Google Drive. And it tracks everything. So it tracks like, how many demands are sent, how many counters are sent, how many supplements medpay demands, complaints are filed, reviews, we’re big on reviews, getting reviews, and how much is settled, like when it pays out, like when I have the money in my account my operating account. And we measure that, and it’s also on a whiteboard, so they measure it, and you can give them incentives. So you can say like, whoever sends out the most demands every month is gonna get like a $50 gift card or something, whoever settles the most cases, or whoever has the most reviews, you can just incentivize them with like $50, or whatever, we do incentivize our case manager with reviews. So like every single review that they get, it’s like 25 bucks. So if it’s Avvo, lawyers.com, Google, Facebook, Better Business Bureau, or Yelp, they’ll each get $25. So every case, they can make an extra $150. In addition to what they’re getting paid hourly. And you can do it with teams, too. So if you know how we have our teams, the case manager and their claims assistant, so if they hit $150,000, that month, they get 300 bucks for their team, you know, their case manager and the claims assistants all get 300 bucks. If they hit let’s say 100 and 100,000, then they only get 200 bucks each year, whatever, 7550 bucks or 100 bucks or whatever, you know, okay, so that was a pivot table. So you would fill this, that one that page out first, and then it adds up on this page. So you would see, and these are all examples. We didn’t make $27,000 in March, but we just put in some examples. So you’d see how many demands and supplements and all that stuff was so that you see how healthy your firm is. So yeah, you fill out the months, and then it adds up onto this page. So auditing cases, we have like probably 10 things that we audit at a time. So my virtual assistants are going through the cases and auditing them to see if the clients treating if we have the hospital bill or whatever, because it’s really embarrassing when you’re like, I know you went to the hospital last year, but I didn’t get anything, you know. So they’re doing all that. So they’re saying, hey, there’s a gap in treatment, or we don’t have hospital bill or something. They’ll let us know. And they tell us this like every other week. Here’s another thing. So they’ll go through the cases and they’ll tell us if there’s something an issue, things to track. So one of my friends is a really wealthy guy really successful. And he’s like one of my mentors. So whenever I have an issue, I go up and ask him and he answers it in five minutes or whatever. And he says, Sandy, I have like three factories in three different countries, I want to go into my factory and I want to see certain things. And I’ll know the health of my factory, I want it done this way, I don’t want anyone else to do it, change it. If I go into my factory in Europe, I look at these three things, and I know how healthy my factory is. And if I go to my factory in Asia be the same three things. And then he said, You need to find like managers. So think of like the MLM pure pyramid, you know, you’re right there at the top, and then you’ve got these you can’t manage. Like, we probably have, like, 100 people now, you can’t manage 100 people, you know, so you get like, 10 little managers to manage different things. And then you ask those 10 If there’s an issue, then report to me. So the 10 things that we would measure, you know, track is statute of limitations, treatment, so that there’s no gaps, demands getting sent out or is my case manager, one of my case managers being rogue and throwing it under the desk and hoping that some fairy is going to send that demand out. So they’re checking it every two weeks. And if it’s the same excuse, like, Oh, I’m still waiting for that. They’re gonna let higher ups know and say, Hey, Bobby, the case manager is not working, offers and counters, I want to make sure that they’re not sitting on offers that are sitting on counters, those are getting sent out communications, you’re communicating with our clients, at least monthly property damage, cars aren’t getting towed and you know, sold off and stuff. They’re getting their rentals, it’s very important to them, liabilities, accepted settlements, how many cases each case manager has before they get full and need to bring on more case managers litigation, they’re looking at that to make sure things are moving, and things like that. So we learned that we even if you’re a case manager, so let’s say we hired you from Glen Lerner’s firm, when there was a very big firm in town in Las Vegas. And you said that you’re a case manager, he might have a different definition of case manager, you might have been the janitor over there, I don’t know, you might have been the person that just opened the cases and did intakes and he called you case manager, you know, so whenever we hire a case manager, I’m like, Are you gonna be okay? Is your ego going to be okay? I’m going to be putting you under someone before I trust you with my $100,000 cases or my $500,000 cases. So you’re going to be a claims assistant for a while, you’re going to show me that you can, you know, mop floors before you move up. So we have case managers and claims assistants underneath. And then when the claims assistants are like understanding after like three or six months, then we’re like, okay, we’re going to slowly give you some cases, but the case manager is still overseeing those cases. So they’re like Junior case managers. Even if we hire someone that’s experienced from outside, we’ll always put them under someone before we trust them with our cases. And then later on, you find out that you need to fire him, and then your clients, like, how come I keep getting bounced around. So that’s a little tip that we learned through the years. Things, yeah, change always happens. And we’re trying to make things. Our goal is to settle your case, as soon as possible for the highest dollar value. That’s our motto, some of the case as soon as possible for the highest settlement amount. And we’re just trying to get to that, you know, I tell them, we’re going to try it for a little bit. And see how it works. And you know, or we’ll, we’ll talk about it at our meeting weekly, and see what they think. Any other questions? Virtual Assistants? Yes, okay. Hmm.
Unknown Speaker
How do you manage the virtual assistants,
Sandy Van
we have something called Hubstaff. So we watch their time on there. So we see every six minutes, what they’re doing, we can manage their productivity there, we can see if they’re 70%, or more productive is pretty good. You’re never gonna get that from an in house staff. So we have Hubstaff in our office to watch to look at screens. So remember, okay, so I kind of had the first three, and I was like, really good with them. It was like the first three kids you have, you know, you’re like, disinfecting everything, you know, and all that stuff. And then you have other kids, and you’re like, oh, that dropped on the floor. Five second rule, okay. So once I taught them how to brush their teeth, and ride bicycles, they basically know how to do that. So they hire themselves, they train themselves, I don’t really have to touch that, you know, they have certain things that they do for us. So one could be in charge of demands, or whatever. One could be in charge of sobro. So I’ll walk through the case how a case comes in. So case comes in, we do the intake, we scan everything to them their documents and send it to the virtual assistants, the virtual assistants inputting all the information into our system. So I don’t want to type up claim number or the policy number, nor do I want my people in house that are making $15 or 20 bucks an hour to do that. So they’re typing it up, and they’re organizing everything. So this is a picture of her face, or her bruise. And this is a picture of her car that goes in a separate separate tab so they’re gonna organize all that they’re calling the claim. So they’re calling all state Hey, my clients injured, get them a rental they were injured on Broadway or whatever, get their car fixed. When are you going to inspect and all that. So they’re opening the claim, they’re sending out the medical, the letter of rep, they’re opening subrogation, they are getting the police report off online or whatever. If we have to send a runner, they’ll just send it to us. And we’ll print it and give it to a runner, then they’re checking the treatment to make sure that it’s, you know, consistent. So they’re checking that they probably do 90% of the work in our firm. Yeah, the Philippines. And we have some in South America. So Mexico, Venezuela, Ecuador, something like that. Yeah. So they’re doing that when the time comes for the demand. They’re gathering the medical records, they know how to use high tech. They’re drafting the demand letters, we redact everything off of our demand letters in prelit, you don’t get crap. I don’t want you to know my clients ethnicity, date of birth, phone number, social, I just feel that I get better offers that way when they’re not trying to find a way to lower the offer. So my client, my virtual assistants, redact everything out of our demand letters, prelit. They put all the exhibits together, these tasks get to us the claims assistant reviews it and then the case manager reviews the final, then we can just print it off, and then just mail it. They’re doing the reduction letters, they’re doing the disbursement letters, they’re doing lien verifications, they’re calling on treatment and all that stuff, they do so much in my office, they they pay my payroll, I don’t want to do it. They’re just doing all that Doc, Jen, for me. It’s fun, but I don’t need to spend my $500 an hour doing that. So we have a team of like 12 that know how to doctrine and change your case management system. So things like that. Any other questions? Yes. We I think we do have some clients in Georgia. I think that. And we do do other areas of law. So they do family law, criminal, some business, I don’t even know all areas of law, definitely personal injury, and they do our mass torts. So I think it’s almost the same everywhere that you go, just things change a little bit. If you gave them your forms, they would probably put it on a doctrine. So they use our system and put it in the doctrine under your account. And then they would just generate it. No and give it to you. They just give you a screenshot. I love it. They chat with me, they give me a screenshot looks good sfax it? You know, I’ve applied for a different bar in Washington. I’m like, can you get all this stuff for me? Can you call, you know, can you call the university get my transcripts or whatever? They’ve done that I had an SBA loan for my building? I’m like, I’m just like the most disorganized person ever. And can you find that it’s somewhere in my Google Drive? Go ask my accountant for that. They just did. Did it all go to ADP and find my paychecks. So yeah, yeah. I think that it’s also Yeah, you could have that in house. Like I’ve had my credit card stolen, someone bought snap on tools, and sent it to someplace an apartment down the street. So I think you can have that with anyone, I think you just have to hire better. And you know, the way we hire, you can actually see the reviews. So it’s not like here in the United States where you can’t talk about it. You’re like, oh, yeah, yeah, they worked here for this time period. You’re seeing their reviews, you’re seeing if someone ever wrote about them, you’re seeing if they actually work during that time period, you’re seeing if it was five stars, that would be great for dating, you know, like, that’d be a lot faster. Like, why didn’t you tell me you had a drinking problem or, or whatever, like, you can see that about the virtual assistants when you’re hiring them. And we just have the same kind of processes, as we do with our local people that we hire. So you have to be very literal with them. You know, you have to be very specific and literal. They’re like Jaime the robot and get smart. I’m aging myself. You know, Jaime, you would say something like take down that door and he’d start drilling the door down, you know, he take the screws off, something like that with the VAs. I said something like flying fish, and they’re like, We have no client named flying fish. You got to be very literal with them, training them. We just use a lot of video. We’re very techie so I can Skype with them. Google Hangouts zoom. They, they have like health insurance, they have internet that’s faster. I pay for an internet stipend. I pay for a second monitor. You know, we give them raises. Every six months or so. They go and hang out at some restaurant. It’s like very different. Like when I was hiring them. There’s one of our assistants who is an attorney, he and he speaks four languages. So like I had a client that spoke French, I had to call him and have him interpret. I’m never going to find a $15 an hour person in the United States that speaks four languages and was like a marine biologist and an attorney or something. That’s something that you see they’re very grateful. Like one of them is like, Oh, I live in this room and it’s like, my husband and I and my kid. And you’re like, Whoa, like, I live in a very I live in a 4000 square foot house and they have A room, a bedroom, you know, and they’re just so happy with any little thing. You know, I got them a printer. They’re like, Oh my god, I’m so happy. They’re finally buying like a $50,000 house. And they’re so grateful. We pay them lower, it could range from $3 to eight bucks, our virtual assistant company, we charge 15 to 25. So we are making a spread on it. I’m not getting rich off of it. But it’s good for someone that doesn’t have the time to train someone. That’s like their common thing, because of course, they’re doing those 180 things. I’ve seen people that have failed because they’re like, Oh, I tried it. And I it was probably you didn’t hire well, or you didn’t train them or something. You know, but yeah, you can get one for three to seven, three to eight, depending on if they speak perfect English or Spanish.
Unknown Speaker
We have one more question. They are there. The question is how do you deal with private and I only asked repeating because how do you deal with people private a social security numbers, private proprietary information?
Sandy Van
I think that like practice, Panther actually does, like block out some of this stuff. But I think that it’s going to be the same if you had your staff here. Okay. And I think there’s the rules that she had mentioned earlier, for law clerk is like 5.3 5.5 or something. You just have to like, review what they’re doing. And just hire well.
Unknown Speaker
Sandy’s very generous ask answering questions, too. I know her booth is out there legal support help. She’ll be around this afternoon before she go before and maybe a little bit after. So feel free to ask her additional questions. She’s always responding to them. Alright. Thank you very much, Sandy.
