In this episode, Jim and Tyson interview Nicole Abboud; a business owner, Millennial speaker, adjunct college professor, attorney, and podcaster. Nicole combines her understanding of the legal profession (she practiced law for 5 years) with her knowledge of content marketing to help lawyers build their brands and practices. They will go over her career as a podcaster and her business and mission.
Lawyers! Sign up for the Maximum Lawyer Conference!
http://maxlawcon.maximumlawyer.com/
About our guest:
The site:
https://www.abboudmedia.com
Nicole:
http://www.nicoleabboud.com
The podcasts:
http://www.genylawyer.com
Each week, host – Karima Gulick – speaks with attorneys who dare to live their lives on their own terms and who are building fulfilling careers. Guest from all walks of life (and the legal profession) share their courageous stories, offer their tactical advice, and provide just the right amount of motivation to help you accomplish your goals.
Her podcast:
http://www.nicoleabboud.com/podcast/
Leadership Development
“Everything that you do as a lawyer, if you are running your own practice, whether you work within a law firm, the best thing you can do for yourself to set yourself up to success is to invest in leadership development”
Hacking’s Hack:
Lawyers! Sign up for the Maximum Lawyer Conference!
http://maxlawcon.maximumlawyer.com/
Nicole’s Tip:
Take this week to listen on social media. Pick a hashtag that relates to your practice area, to your business – anything you wanna find more information about – and just follow it. Follow the conversations that are following around it, and eventually join in on those conversations if it is appropriate. You will find out that you will end up meeting a lot of new people, you will make new connections, you will gain greater insight and ultimately start talking about yourself.
Tyson’s Tip:
On the first episode of the year, I encouraged people to send out 10 thank you notes to people that have helped them on 2017. Now I want to encourage you to set lunch with 5 people you have not talked to in a while. Get back in front of them. Keep that engagement up.
Thanks so much for listening to the show! If you want to know more about this and keep on maximizing your firm, please join our Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/403473303374386/ or like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MaximumLawyerPodcast/ and comment!
You can also go to http://www.maximumlawyer.com/ or, if you’d prefer, email us at: info@maximumlawyer.com
Do you want to get on the show? Shoot us an email or message us!
The Maximum Lawyer Podcast. Partner up, and maximize your firm.
Resources:
- Join the Guild Membership
- Subscribe to the Maximum Lawyer YouTube Channel
- Follow us on Instagram
- Join the Facebook Group
- Follow the Facebook Page
- Follow us on LinkedIn
Transcripts: Nicole Abboud: Video Marketing and Podcasting
Nicole Abboud
The best thing you can do for yourself to set yourself up for success for longevity of your career is to invest in leadership, while leadership development. And obviously personal development is very important. Business Development is very important. But learning the skills necessary to be a leader, to lead others, but also to serve others good. That’s what leadership is really about. I think that’s the best way you can help your clients, you can advance your career, you can build your business and grow your practice.
Jim Hacking
Tyson, we have a special announcement.
Tyson Mutrux
Yeah, so we’re announcing the maximum lawyer Conference, which is May 17th, through 18th of this year in St. Louis, Missouri, it’s actually going to be pretty awesome, we put together a really, really good list of speakers. And really, the idea is that you’re going to come you’re going to bring your laptop, you’re going to shoot video, you’re going to get things done while you’re here, and you’re gonna leave with a package of things and your firm is going to hopefully be transformed for the better. And so we’ve got really great people like Seth price on it, I got loose gauge on Fisher, Joe Vitale, Wade Pollack, Lee Ed, Gary Burger, Chelsea Lambert, or as Lilienthal. And another mystery speaker who we’re not going to talk about yet, I don’t know when we’re going to announce that but the big name, let’s all say, so I’m really, really excited about it.
Jim Hacking
I think we got a great lineup, most of the people have been on the show before, but they all bring in new content, new ideas, new things for our listeners to implement. And that’s really what the podcast and the conference are all about its implementation, you’re getting advice from real people who are in the trenches doing the grunt work of building a successful law practice, I think that everyone’s gonna get a lot of value out of it. I’m really pleased with how everything’s coming together. We’ve done everything that we can to keep the price point really low. And we have a fun event coming up on Wednesday night, we’re gonna meet for drinks and dinner, and then we’ll have the conference all day, Thursday, we’re gonna go to those who want to, to a special box for the Cardinals versus Phillies. And then we’ll wrap it up midday on Friday, the 18th of May.
Tyson Mutrux
Yeah, it’s really awesome. There’s all these extracurriculars that are available, we were talking about even maybe even doing putting together some sort of run in the morning, if people want to run to those runners, and really excited about is just just digging in. And we’re making sure that everyone’s presentations are really just digging down into the nuts and bolts, and really things that people can take away when they leave. And it’s not just, you’re not going to just go sit in a room and listen to someone talk. That’s not what these are going to be, these are going to be actually great takeaways for everyone, so can be super excited, all of our presenters are excited about it, and it’s gonna be a fantastic event.
Jim Hacking
Yeah, it’s gonna be fast paced, everybody gets 45 minutes and 45 minutes only to present, no one’s going over. And we’re going to keep it running really tight. I think that there’s just about value value value. So if you’re interested and want to come join us, we already have lots of signups. Even though this is our very first promotion for the event, the early bird signups will expire on March 15 2018. So if you’re listening to this before March 15, make sure you register and you can do that at max lock con, dot maximum lawyer.com. Or you can go to our Facebook page, maximum lawyer and it’ll be pinned to the top of the page.
Tyson Mutrux
Yeah, we’ll also put it in the show notes below. Just click on the link and you can do it from your phone as well. So it’d be pretty easy to sign up. I’m excited Jimmy and I hope everyone enjoyed this show.
Unknown Speaker
Run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum liar podcast, podcast your hosts, Jim hacking and Tyson Meatrix. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm.
Unknown Speaker
Welcome to the show. Welcome back to the maximum lawyer Podcast.
Unknown Speaker
I’m Jim hacking in Tyson music so what’s up Jimmy?
Jim Hacking
Oh, Tyson. I feel like you and I haven’t recorded in a while we had so many in the can that it’s been a while since we’ve actually recorded an episode.
Tyson Mutrux
I sort of this job. I’m sure you miss me too. So always always. Yes, for sure. We you know, we have pretty friggin awesome guests today. I can tell you
Jim Hacking
that. Yeah, I feel really lucky to have her on the show today. Her name is Nicole Abood I’m sure many of our listeners and viewers are well aware of Nicole’s successes. I’m going to read a little bio about you Nicole before we get started, and it’s coming from a boot media.com Nicole practice law for five years and she decided to and hang her shingle and launch a boot media she combines her understanding of the legal profession with her knowledge of content marketing to help lawyers build their brands and their practices. During her time as a lawyer. She has immersed herself in the marketing branding and business development side of her legal practice. She quickly discovered she was much more interested in working with lawyers rather than against them. And I get that for sure. In 2015 Nicole dove deep into content marketing and branding with the launch of her podcast the Gen Y lawyer which has been on the ABA is top 100 have blogs in 2016 and her podcast was on this year along with ours on the top 100 Aba podcast. The Gen Y lawyer podcast tells the stories of fellow lawyers who are taking a chance on themselves in their careers by practicing in their own unique ways. And she launched a second podcast this year, which I really have come to enjoy. I’ve actually I haven’t listened to the Gen Y lawyer, but I really like the leaders love company when I’ve listened to every episode of those. Nicole, I don’t know if you noticed Tyson recently got named to be a contributor for Forbes bankable and she’s appeared in the ABA Journal and The Daily Journal just has a YouTube channel to teach lawyers how to do YouTube videos. And she’s she’s really good. And she’s very positive. I like every time I hear Nicole, she’s happy and, and encouraging to everybody. And she even had some good advice for you and I before we started on the show today, so Nicole, welcome.
Nicole Abboud
Thank you so much for having me here. And when I wrote that bio, I didn’t think anyone would actually read it. It’s actually not in front of me. So I’m, I’m read right now. But thanks for having me.
Tyson Mutrux
It’s a killer bio. I love it. So I’ve got a question for you. I don’t I usually asked, you know, introduce yourself, see what you do. I’m not going to do that this time. I’ve got a really big question for you. So you had Gen Y lawyer, which if I remember correctly, I remember getting a podcast update in my feed. And the host has changed. Is that right?
Nicole Abboud
That is correct. So that is actually something that just happened recently. But was that the big question? Or is there more? No,
Tyson Mutrux
it was not? No, no, no. Okay. Why are my questions why? And how were you able to do that?
Nicole Abboud
So that is the question. So we are actually coming up on three years on the genuine lawyer. So March will be three years, I launched it back in 2015. And I have a few different answers to that question. One of them was simply I feel like I had just about all the conversations that I can have, I met so many different lawyers, and I tried to diversify the types of guests that I had on that I felt like I personally was having the same conversations over and over. Granted, the listeners are probably new and different. And they found the podcast at different times in their lives and careers. So to them, it was new. To me, it was the same thing over. And so a little part of me was just like, Okay, I kind of I was itching for new types of conversations. But then the other part is, I felt like I benefited so much from my podcasts, like I got so many great opportunities. And I felt like you know what, let me see if someone else can benefit just as much. So I didn’t want to just shut it down altogether, because I thought there was some good stuff there, there’s still some good value. And I thought if I got that many opportunities, and it opened up so many doors for me, hopefully you can do that for someone else and keep it going and pass the blessings on to someone else.
Jim Hacking
Talk a little bit about how you started the Gen Y podcast and sort of what lessons you learned as you’re starting a lot of our members of the group and listeners to our podcasts, have thought on their own about podcasting and talk to us a little bit about that.
Nicole Abboud
Sure. So podcasting came at a time in my life where I was, it was a low point, to be honest, I had I think I was a third year associate at that point. I’ve been practicing for three years, I thought I want to be a lawyer all my life. But then when I started practicing, I realized, Oh, crap, this is not what I thought it would be. I’m really not happy. And I couldn’t figure out if it was just the position I was in. I was working at a firm, so I wasn’t sure if it was just that specific position or that practice area. Or if it was the practice altogether, it’s just the profession altogether. So I thought about blogging, I thought, You know what, let me start a blog and talk to people or just interview people out there. But when I really thought about it, I didn’t want to write, I was writing all day at work. The last thing I wanted to do was go home and write some more. So I happen to stumble upon the little purple podcast button on my phone, I dove into podcasting, just started listening and thought, You know what, this could be the platform for me, I’d much rather talk I I feel like I have a pretty decent personality. So maybe I should talk it out instead of write it out. So I thought, Okay, let me reach out to other lawyers across the US. Let me find out what they’re doing to find happiness and success in their careers just because I was unhappy. I wanted to find out if others were like me and what they were doing about it. So I kind of married the two I took podcasting. I took these stories and conversations I was having with just millennial lawyers across the US and put it all together, packaged it into the genuine lawyer and launched it.
Tyson Mutrux
Love it, Nicole, so you’ve had a chance you have plenty of opportunities to talk to marketers and other attorneys and you’ve had them on podcast, you’ve interviewed them. I know you’ve spoken all over the country. I’ve got a tough one for you think what’s the best piece of marketing advice you’ve received?
Nicole Abboud
That is a tough one. I don’t know I can really choose one. Oh, and I say that only because it might have it just changes. I think I think I get new, like great advice every single year and it just changes because marketing the nature of marketing is changing. I think the one thing that’s probably constant that a lot of older attorneys shared with me was obviously make sure you are just being yourself when you’re meeting people Little showing your personality and actually our our friend Mitch Jackson is the one who really pushed being yourself and being human and showing that side of you as a lawyer. So then when I saw I obviously applied that as a lawyer, but that also when I started my business, I kept that in mind, just, they just show your human side, don’t be afraid. And I think young lawyers are scared out of being themselves when they’re in law school, because we’re told to be so professional, that we forget that there’s also a personal side to us. So I think I had to undo that. And that kind of advice really helped when it came to marketing.
Jim Hacking
Nicole talks about being a female podcaster and blogger and how that has impacted your, your message and your branding and maybe your target market? Yeah, that’s
Nicole Abboud
a good question. So there weren’t, as far as I know, many female lawyer podcasters a few years ago, there was Gina Chou, I think Miranda Macross, the there are a few who are out there. And I’m always helping and encouraging other lady lawyers to kind of get their voice out there, whether it’s through a podcast or on video. But I definitely think that there is a lot of hesitation when it comes to women being on are hearing their voices on podcasts or through audio, I think it’s obviously has a lot to do with the fact that we’re very critical of our own voices, and just finding those societal pressures of the way we sound. And for me, even though I after I put out an episode, I really go back and listen to because I still cringe when I hear my own voice. And I’m very critical of what I say and, and what kind of questions I leave on the table and not really follow up on. I never related that back to being a woman, I just thought it was me and my confidence issues of being a young lawyer being a new podcaster. But I think in general, a lot of women do hesitate to share their voice, both figuratively and literally. So that’s something that I’m always encouraging them to do more of. And I think, for podcasting, because it is just you and the microphone, for the most part, or maybe you have a guest on the other end, it’s a little bit more of an intimate setting where you can ease into recording your voice and listening and getting your message out there. So I don’t know, that’s kind of a roundabout way of answering your question. But for me, it was never an issue of just being a woman It was just being young and not experienced and what I was doing,
Tyson Mutrux
there reminds me a lot about a video that you put out not too long ago, I can’t remember what platform it was sent out on. But I remember you talked about getting into video. I don’t know if it was on Facebook, I just remember seeing it. And you’re reminded me about that whenever we talk about cringing hearing your voice and you know sharing your voice and getting on video. Can you share with the listeners? Just some simple tips on getting into video? Or podcasting in general? Just what are some simple ways of getting into get over those fears?
Nicole Abboud
Yeah, so I think you might be referring to videos where I said, it doesn’t matter what you look like, just get on there. That is actually one of the biggest just concerns that clients share with me when I’m trying to explain to them why they should do videos, and why they should get into it. And I’ve come to realize that obviously, we are our biggest and worst critics, we think we look worse than we do. And I think I’ve I’ve just been telling clients, people don’t really tune in to see what you look like. And they’re not really judging you as hard as you think they do. And to be honest, at the end of the day, they’re watching your videos or listening to your podcast, because they want the information, not so much to see what you look like. So we need to just kind of get over it and get over ourselves, in essence, and focus on the message that we’re trying to share or the information that we’re trying to educate viewers or listeners on. So how do you get over it. Honestly, it’s just doing more and more videos or podcasts just practicing. So I would recommend, after you’ve kind of worked through the content that you want to get through, just practice on your phone, right. So turn on your phone, practice at home, record a video and watch it and watch it back and see what you liked about it and what you didn’t like and what you can fix. But you don’t have to publish it. You can you can record podcasts and not publish right away, you can record videos and again, sit on them for a little while until you’re more comfortable putting it out there. But you get to a point where you realize that holding on to that fear and just concern of how you look becomes outweighed by the benefits of actually putting it out there. So at some point, you get to a point where you just get over it,
Jim Hacking
because I can really appreciate that it took me months to convince Tyson to put his ugly grill on Facebook alive. So I know that I know the struggle is real. And the cold. Tell us about what you do each day. Like how do you spend your day? What what are you working on? What’s new in your world?
Nicole Abboud
Yeah, it’s not that exciting to be honest. Although I try to make it look exciting on Instagram Stories. No. So actually lately, I’ve been doing a lot more running because I’m training for a marathon. But usually I just have a list of things I need to get through. So whether it’s posting on social media or editing my show or delegating to my editor, either video or podcast editor. That’s a lot of it’s a balance between creating content and then promoting it. So that’s pretty much how I spend my day and then I Try to attend at least a few networking events a week, usually, usually at least one. Everything’s just a constant balance between being in my own head being in my own office, and then putting my face out there and going out and networking.
Tyson Mutrux
In a call, we talk a little bit about your content strategy when it comes to getting your podcasts, any other marketing materials out the door, like social media, things like that.
Nicole Abboud
Sure. So in terms of the content that I’m creating, I try to and this is something that I’ve been doing, it’s kind of a new thing, a new approach, because in the past, it was just driven by the type of guests that I want to have on my podcast. So it’s mostly me reaching out to someone I really wanted. If they said, Yes, I had them on. But now it’s more of me trying to take a step back and look at things in from an entire month’s perspective, or three months at least. And thinking about what major either projects I want to work on during those three months, or what major message I want to put out there. So I have let’s say, a ticket in three month increments. I break it down by each month. And then I look at what again, what theme should I have each month, what type of guests should I have on my podcast to kind of speak to that theme. I reach out, I have them on I record content that relates to those themes that I decided on. And then after I created the content, it’s a matter of every Monday morning, waking up and setting up my social media for the week. So what that means is, it includes creating any kind of graphic icons that I might want to post on Instagram, on Facebook, on LinkedIn, again, that relate either to the podcast episode that I did, or some other webinars, something I want to promote. So I set that up on Monday, and then I use Hootsuite, I used to use Buffer. And now I’m looking into more of an automated type of scheduling or social media scheduling platform. But I set it up for the week. And in terms of posting, I set it and forget it. But in terms of engagement, that’s something I do throughout the week.
Tyson Mutrux
Where do you get your images from? When it comes to posting on HootSuite?
Nicole Abboud
Yeah, so some of them are in Canva, which I’m sure you guys are familiar with. It’s a very popular Graphic Design website. So that’s ca n v a.com. And then I’ve also discovered another website called Pexels. So its P E X E, L s.com. And they have a lot of free, really gorgeous pictures, their images that you can use. And those are really the big ones. And obviously, because I’m interviewing guests, I usually ask them for their their pictures as well. So I just use what they send me.
Jim Hacking
We’re lucky enough to have Nicole Abood on the show today of a boot media and Nicole, I know that you’re spending a lot of time thinking about speaking about and putting out on social media about leadership. Talk to us a little bit about your leadership journey, what got you interested in it at this point in your career, and what kinds of things you’ve been focusing on?
Nicole Abboud
Sure. So I would actually say that I’ve always been interested in it. It’s just now I’ve come around to actually putting it out there. I you know, I can’t describe what it is about leadership that I’m just obsessed with every organization in high school and college and law school that I joined, I always told myself, I want to make it to the top of this organization and be the president. And for whatever reason, some of it admittedly was because I’m a middle child. And I love the attention. And I’ll admit that I’ll put it out there. But there’s something about being in a position of authority, for lack of a better word, and be in a position to not only make things happen, but also to help people. So to be in a position where you are best situated to make things happen for other people to help them out. That’s just intrigues me. So when I decided I wanted to start a new podcast, one of the reasons why I moved away from the Genmai lawyer is because I wanted to go a little bit broader, which is usually not what I recommend for people who who are starting podcasts. But I wanted to talk about leadership, because I knew that that’s what I want to build my new brand on, or what that’s what I want to be known for as a business leader expert. And admittedly, I’m not there. I’m not an expert yet. So I’m turning to guests for their knowledge so I can absorb it and learn as much as I can. But it’s honestly everything that you do as a lawyer as if you’re running your own practice. Whether you’re work within a law firm, the best thing you can do for yourself to set yourself up for success for the longevity of your career is to invest in leadership. So while leadership development, and obviously personal development is very important, business development is very important. But learning the skills necessary to be a leader, to lead others but also to serve others because that’s what leadership is really about. I think that’s the best way you can help your clients you can advance your career you can build your business and grow your practice.
Tyson Mutrux
I love it, Nicole, before we get to my next question, I want to remind everyone to if you have questions for Nicole, go ahead and post them on the Facebook group and we’ll we’ll fire them at Nicole so she can answer them for us. My question is I always ask this question. I was always curious to see what the responses are. What do you struggle with? You’re a very positive person. Anyone that watches anything you do tell you’re very positive. So like, what do you struggle with? Because it doesn’t appear like you struggle with anything.
Nicole Abboud
Really? Well, then I hide it. Well, you know I’ll be honest, just confidence issues, I think, well, a very tangible example is just knowing how to price my services, knowing the value of what I have to offer. I think being new, just a new business owner, you don’t have a lot, you know that you you have the skills, you know, you can walk the walk, but you don’t know what price is attached with that service that you’re offering. So for me, a lot of my struggles come from not just being confident enough to ask for the number that I want when I’m quoting my fee to clients or potential clients. So yeah, so confidence in that sense. And then again, just finding my space in the world, I suppose. Just making sure what I’m saying what I’m putting out there resonates with people, I think, confidence is really the big thing I struggle with. But it positivity, I’ll be honest, I’m not always positive. There are times on social media, you can see, I tend not to complain, I’m not huge complainer, but it’s not always positive. It’s absent. There are ups and downs. But I tried it like I know the importance of what goes into your mind. So I try to make sure the only good stuff is going in.
Jim Hacking
Hey, Nicole, what about what are the things that our listeners could do with you? What are the services that you offer? What if they were wanting to work with you? What would that look like? And what could you help them with
Nicole Abboud
their business is called a boot media, as you mentioned, and what we do is we are a video marketing and podcast production company. So we can help lawyers and law firms, set up their shows if they want to start a podcast show. And we handle all aspects of it from the brainstorming to the creation, editing, uploading, and promoting. And then on the video end of things, if lawyers and law firms are in Southern California, we actually film than we edit, also post and promote. And if they’re outside of California, or it’s outside of a distance, we can drive to you or get to them, we can help them create the content wherever they are. So we guide them, we coach them on how to like, where to put the camera, what’s the best lighting, and of course, we work on the content itself. So creating the content. And then when they send it over editing, promoting posting all that good stuff. I feel like Nick wrote a question I got a notification.
Tyson Mutrux
You had a really good sense. So Nick actually said that you struggle with nothing because he’s constantly supporting you.
Nicole Abboud
That is true. I do have to give him credit. And well, not just him. But a lot of my friends that I’m a lot of the lawyers that I met online, including Jim, in our mastermind group, just that is something I do struggle with, like I said, confidence, but the fact that there are others who see me for what I can’t see myself, that definitely helps. So thank you, Nick,
Tyson Mutrux
typical Nick, Nick fashion. So when it comes to video, shooting video, wherever you’re talking to attorneys about a shooting video, what are some of the mistakes that they constantly make the you should point out to other attorneys? Oh,
Nicole Abboud
I hate to call them mistakes. Just learning they’re learning opportunities. Opportunity. Yes. You know, a lot of lawyers are well, I mean, for anyone, it’s not natural being in front of the camera unless you’ve grown up in front of it. But I think just relaxing and just like not being so stiff in front of the camera, there’s something about that red record button that turns people who would otherwise be just really casual and conversational, and so really stiff, robotic people. So I think the first thing is to relax. If that requires you to take a shot of vodka, then just do it. Like whatever you need to do to relax but not be totally incompetent, when you’re actually talking, do it to start off with and then it becomes easier, like I said, But relaxing is one is important. And I think the other really important part is preparation, because you become more relaxed and confident when you know what you’re going to talk about. So if you are just winging it, then that might be difficult. It’s going to make it harder, you might ramble on and on. So having some bullet points written down some form of preparation in place before you start recording definitely helps. And I think at the end of the day, just remembering again, what you’re saying is more important than anything else. So make sure that what you’re saying is good. It’s actually helping people. You’re not wasting people’s time, but you’re providing an answer to their problem, because that’s really what they’re searching for you for.
Jim Hacking
Cool. How about for coming up with content ideas? What do you recommend that our listeners do when they’re struggling maybe to come up with ideas of what to talk about?
Nicole Abboud
Yeah, you know, there’s so much inspiration everywhere. And I think the more obvious places to look are current clients. So any kind of frequently asked questions that you’re getting from either consultations that come in through your office, people will call you or email you asking random questions that in your mind, you’re thinking I like that’s so simple, but because so many people are asking you, that’s probably a good topic to cover in a video. I our friend Mitch is a big fan of newsjacking. So looking to current events, current trends, anything in the news, pop culture, that’s always an interesting one to comment on. If your practice area relates to something that’s happening in pop culture, flipping through magazines, I actually like so templates are just awful, but sometimes I look through them because I just I love how they write their titles because they’re so catchy, right? So that’s something we can learn from them. Then there are also some platforms online where you Can well actually Google, just go to Google and start typing in a few words that relate to your practice area and see what Google’s predictive search gives you. Right? They might give you because usually, there’s a drop down menu of some options. So see what they spit out and see what others are searching for, and what’s popular out there. So there there are platforms like that, that help you plug in a few words. And then you can see what other articles are written about that, like Buzzsumo, I believe is one, they’ll just do some research online, you will, you’ll definitely find a lot of inspiration.
Tyson Mutrux
Buzzsumo is a great one. We do have a question from William ed, and he wants you to cover you talked a little bit about podcasting, but he wants you to cover what you do to help people set up podcast.
Nicole Abboud
Okay, I guess from the beginning, and I’ll try to make it a brief try to abbreviate it. So we start with depending on where the lawyer is coming in, at, so they already have an idea, and they are sure that this is the way they want to go. Then from there, we just hash out a timeline of how we’re gonna launch. So what is this show gonna sound like? What is it going to feel like? Are you gonna have guests? Or is it just going to be you a solo type of show? Are you gonna have a co host like you guys have here? And then what are some topics that you know, you want to cover? Let’s let’s write a list of 12 or 20. Right? We talked about how frequently they want to publish. And then we were, again, we worked through whether we should reach out to guests and when, when we’re going to publish each episode. And then I give them a schedule to get on for them to record by a certain day and have it have the audio invite to me by another certain date. And then from there, it just becomes a process of them recording sending the audio, we edit, we mix, we make it sound good. And then we upload it on their behalf and create all the social media promotional items. And then we rinse and repeat every single week. And then if they’re coming in with no idea, so they know they want to show but they don’t know what to talk about. And nobody should be practiced law related or something completely different. We brainstorm there as well. The fact that I used to practice I have some good insight on the legal profession. And then luckily, I work with some creatives. So we can do a little bit of both, we can tell them what the show should be about. And then we can make it sound good.
Jim Hacking
The cool one thing when it comes to social media that I’ve been real late to the game on his Instagram, talk to me a little bit about what lawyers who want to break into Instagram should be thinking about I know, Mitch is always counseling us and wisely so that it’s not about the platform, but I basically don’t even really understand Instagram. I know it sounds like an old fogy, but I’m trying to figure it out.
Nicole Abboud
Okay. Should I ask what about it? So what about it? Are you trying to figure out?
Jim Hacking
I don’t know. I mean, Snapchat. Snapchat took me forever, because that’s like a whole other whole other universe. But yeah, Instagram. I mean, do you think it’s better to be doing videos like those short videos or stories? Or is it just to do graphics? Or both? Or I know, to members of our Legal Group, legal minds group, Alison and Carol are doing a real good job on Instagram. But I was wondering what thoughts you might have about that?
Nicole Abboud
Yeah, so to be honest, I have two thoughts about it, I suppose there, some people think that Instagram should be like a magazine. So when someone looks through your feed, when they find your account, it needs to look beautiful, because Instagram is so picture driven. It’s image driven. So it needs to look great, right. So that’s one way if you’re a lawyer who really wants to put emphasis on the way your Instagram looks, then you’re going to pay attention to things like themes and colors and filters, and making sure they all look great, not using a lot of words in any kind of graphic that you do posts. And then there’s another camp of people and I fall into the ladder, who think that it should be more utilitarian, like your Instagram should serve a purpose other than look good. So for me, even though I try to make sure my pictures look as great as they can be, individually, overall, I’m not too concerned, if they’re not in harmony, I really want each post to serve a purpose again, so. So on my personal one, I have my personal and my business. on my personal page, I share a lot of leadership related stuff behind the scenes, speaking at conferences, attending conferences, just human connection type stuff. And then on my good media Instagram account, I tried to do more little tidbits of what to do on video, what to do with your podcasts, promoting other lawyers in the work that they’re doing. So on that end, it’s more of how can each post provide as much value as possible, and it doesn’t matter if it ultimately doesn’t look gorgeous altogether. But I think, I guess just add more to that. And I’m sure Mitch would agree with this. Again, just making sure that you’re always showing yourself whether you’re practicing or doing something else show behind the scenes at work show the work you’re working on without crossing confidentiality lines, so you interacting with clients like so you don’t have to overthink what you post just just post good stuff.
Tyson Mutrux
Cool. What was the transition like to practicing law, which can be very stressful at times to transition out of law, what was that transition like for you?
Nicole Abboud
But looking back at it now it seems like a like a past life, even though it hasn’t been that long. At the time transitioning from being a practicing attorney to not practicing at all and an opening the business was really tough. I went through an identity crisis to be honest. Granted, I only practice for five years, which I know isn’t that long in the grand scheme of things, when you’re in it, it feels like a long time. So it was tough. In the beginning, it was a lot of I had some ego and pride issues going on, I wasn’t going to call myself a lawyer anymore. And obviously now looking back, I still do, but at the time, I thought, I’m not practicing, am I, like, Am I worthy to call myself a lawyer. So there’s a lot of that going on. And then there’s the financial aspect of it, I obviously wasn’t going to be receiving a steady paycheck like I was when I was practicing. So I had to mentally prepare for that as well. But I think whatever the tough times were, like, whatever it was, I was going through, I knew that in the long run, it would be so bad because I was finally working towards something I actually want to do in life. And in the grand scheme of things life is so long, and people’s careers are so long, that temporary discomfort really means nothing when you’re finally building towards something you actually love.
Jim Hacking
Well, let’s say you have a attorney who’s let’s say five years out, like you were when you decided to leave full time practice of law, and but they’re running their own firm and there may be struggling to get clients. And they do some networking they do they have a website, but it’s sort of simple, and they haven’t done anything on YouTube or Twitter or Instagram or Facebook. Where would you suggest that someone like that start.
Nicole Abboud
So there are a lot of places to start. But I think that’s probably the problem, right? Because there are so many places, it can get a little overwhelming. I think networking is probably the most important thing and that and by that I mean both online and in person. So if you’re a solo practitioner, you need to obviously you’re the face of your business, so you need to go out there and meet people. So either go to other lawyer events, or go to conferences, trade shows anywhere that your intended or prospective client is going to be. So there’s the in person thing, and then there’s the online networking. So obviously, I’m all about the content creation. But before you even get there, use social media to meet other people. So to like get to network, meet other lawyers, maybe start listening to what your prospective client is talking about the kind of questions and issues that they’re asking on social media, and then ultimately start creating content, because that is what is really going to drive and build up your brand and just drive that name recognition and ultimately bring in business.
Tyson Mutrux
I have a question because we were talking off air about lives ID, which is a hosting service for podcasters. Is there a certain service you recommend over others and why? I don’t
Nicole Abboud
so I have most of my experience has been with Lipson, so I tend to promote them or recommend them. But I’ve heard good things about blueberry as well and Spreaker I, I think it’s really just your experience and as a podcaster. But honestly, I’ve been very happy with Lipson. So that’s the only one I can really speak about or speak to.
Jim Hacking
Alright, Nicole. So for my last question, I know that you’ve been doing a lot of public speaking in front of lawyers. I know you spoke at the Clio conference last year. Talk to me a little bit about what you’ve learned being on stage and then interacting with people. Right after your speeches done. How have you found that to be,
Nicole Abboud
you know, from a business owners perspective, speaking is probably the best return on investment. I hate to say it that way. But it is a great way to get your name out there. And I say this, because I’ve considered renting a table. And it’s like being a vendor at different conferences. But then speaking to other businesses that were vendors, they told me, that’s not necessarily the best investment. So speaking is actually the best thing you can do. Because you are up there centerstage, the lights are on you, and you have control of the conversation, right. So it’s been great in terms of getting my name out there. But what I’ve learned, and this is something that again, I’m still learning to become a better speaker, definitely not there just yet. But what I’ve learned is that, at some point, you’re speaking your public speaking, your engagements shift from being nervous and not knowing what to say, and just kind of getting it out there to recognizing what you have to say, to extend the life of what you’re presenting on. And by that I mean to get more business even after you speak. So whether that means getting clients getting other speaking opportunities. Now I’m at a point where I kind of remember when I’m presenting what I need to say, to make sure people know what my business is, what I do, what I can do, and then I’m available for speaking opportunities. I think things evolve, the more you do them.
Tyson Mutrux
Awesome stuff, Nicole. Alright, so I’m gonna wrap things up. Before we do I do wanna remind everyone to go to the Facebook page. If you’re listening to this doesn’t mean you’re part of the group. So make sure you go to the Facebook page request to join there and get involved with the discussion. A lot of great discussion going on, especially recently, it’s been pretty, pretty crazy. Make sure you give us a five star review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcast. Jimmy, you’ve got some pretty awesome news. You want to talk about it
Jim Hacking
speaking of conferences and public speaking Unfortunately, Nicole’s not going to be able to join us this year, but in May, we’re going to have our first Max law con 2018. Registration is open. And even though we’ve done very, very little marketing of it, we’ve been getting registrations at a pretty regular clip, which is pretty exciting, I think puts to show you that Gary Vee is right that if you build an audience and talk about things in a meaningful way that resonates with people, then they, they want to join you. So we’ve gotten a lot of good signups already. And people are getting excited about the conference, if you want to register, just go to the maximum lawyer Facebook group, it’s tagged at the top of the group, or you can go to we have a short URL, a bitly, bi T dot L Y, backslash Max law con 18. And you can register there, the early bird registration is good through March 15. So we’re gonna start promoting it a little bit more, Ken and I are working on my internet working on the promotion for it. But we’re really excited about the convention this year.
Tyson Mutrux
Love it, I’m excited about it. And I want to emphasize to people we have cut as much of the meat out as possible, like we’re actually keeping the meat but we’re trying to cut out all the costs and expenses, maybe people can make it as possible. This is not a profit generator. For us. This is just to get a good group of people in a room, and real things move in and getting people moving forward in their practice. So I’m really excited about it. So Nicole, we always ask our guests to give a tip of the week do you have one for us?
Nicole Abboud
Sure. So I’ve been kind of like what I said, I’ve been really into social listening or creeping however you want to, however you want to phrase it. So I would say take this week to listen on social media. What that means is pick a hashtag that relates to your practice area, to your business, to anything you want to find out more information about and just follow it. So follow the conversations that are happening around it, and eventually join in on those conversations if it’s appropriate. So you’ll find that you’ll end up meeting a lot of new people, you’ll make new connections, you’ll gain greater insight. And ultimately, that’s, that’s something that you start talking about yourself. So social listening.
Tyson Mutrux
Awesome. So for the first episode of the year, I encourage people to send out 10 thank you notes for people that have helped them and 2017. And I got a few notes myself. And I want to thank everyone that actually sent those in, I appreciate it. I want to encourage you to do something a little bit for now, set a lunch with someone over the next couple weeks that you have an array of five people make it five people that you haven’t talked to in a while, get back on their list, get back in front of them, maybe potential referral partner, but it’s time to keep that engagement up. It’s not online, you want to make sure you meet with these people engage with them on a regular basis. And for those of you that actually got notes in the mail, think about how that felt to you. And then think about how it feels whenever you reconnect with someone you haven’t talked to in a long time. It feels really good. And so do that reach out to five people over the next few weeks, have lunch with them and reconnect. So that’s my tip of the week. Nicole, thank you so much for coming on. This is great. You gave a lot of great information. Thank you very much.
