In this episode, Jim and Tyson interview Bill Ellis; a branding expert and a Go Giver coach! They will go over his journey as an entrepreneur and a coach and he will share with us his valuable insights about branding and how it can improve our business.
Bill’s site: http://brandingforresults.com/
If you want to contact Bill: bill@brandingforresults.com
Hacking’s Hack: A podcast. https://mastersofscale.com/
Masters of Scale is an original podcast hosted by LinkedIn Co-Founder and Greylock Partner Reid Hoffman showing how companies grow from zero to a gazillion. The series unfolds like a music-infused detective story as Hoffman tests his theories with famous founders. Masters of Scale is the first American media program to commit to a 50-50 gender balance for guests.
Bill’s Tip: “Why are you creating roadblocks that don’t yet exist…” If you are starting a new practice as a young attorney, don’t start creating issues that do not exist. Take what comes in and deal with it as you go and it will work out fine.
Tyson’s Tip: Something William Eadie talked about in our last episode. https://serpbook.com/. It allows you to track your keywords for your website. Incredible.
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Transcripts: Bill Ellis: The Importance of Branding
Bill Ellis
The whole purpose is to make certain that in this case, as an attorney, there is a clear understanding of why they want to be an attorney, what their skill set is, how their skills and their purpose match up and what the relevance of that is. And then it’s a question of finding the right audience to bring that relevant message to. And that’s when you get into brand messaging.
Unknown Speaker
Run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum lawyer podcast via podcast your hosts, Jim hacking, and Tyson nutrix. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.
Jim Hacking
Welcome back to the maximum lawyer Podcast. I’m Jim hacking
Tyson Mutrux
and on tasty music. Jimmy, our guest this week is one pretty awesome to to is actually in Dubai right now. So I’m actually pretty excited about that. Jimmy. Yeah,
Jim Hacking
our guest today is Bill Ellis. And you and I both met him sort of independently. He’s, among other things, a certified go giver, coach. And you know, we had Bob Berg on the show a couple of weeks ago. And it’s great to have Bill on builder, coach and international speaker. And his mission is to add value to the world one brand at a time. He guides individuals and companies alike in building fearless brands. And this is the process of discovering, embracing and delivering the greatest value, which allows him to realize greater profit. His seven C’s of branding are the foundation of his work. And that’s why we wanted to have him on today. You worked at Anheuser Busch for a really long time. And now he’s a branding expert. So Bill, thanks so much for coming on the show.
Bill Ellis
Hey, guys. It’s a real pleasure. And it’s an honor. And yeah, it was it was fun to hear you mentioned Bob Berg, a friend and a mentor. And I listened to that broadcast, I guess it was about a month ago. And it was just terrific.
Tyson Mutrux
Bill, tell us a little bit about just what you do with branding. Sure,
Bill Ellis
the purpose I have in my business is very simply to work with companies and individuals, primarily professionals to help them discover greater value both for themselves and value that they deliver in life and in business. And that sounds to some people maybe like a little gobbledygook, but it’s not it’s really getting a handle on the combination of one’s passion and purpose and finding out the relevance of those two, where it’s relevant, who it serves, and how well they can serve them. Perhaps the best way I can sum up what my work does is to refer back to that podcast that Bob was on Bob Berg, because the book that he and John David Mann wrote, The Go Giver resonates with me and my work and my beliefs so closely. And so incredibly well. It sums up exactly what I do is all about delivering more value and the more value you deliver, the greater returns you’ll receive. And I put that in the context of receiving value and return in the sense of business and profits, but also, and to me much more importantly, in the context of personal gratification and personal satisfaction. So that’s where my work and branding goes. Bill,
Jim Hacking
walk us through your your journey as an entrepreneur and as a coach, how did you come through and iser bush and sort of what’s your story?
Bill Ellis
Well, as you said, I worked for him as it was for a very long time I started with as a bush in New Orleans, which is my home. It was a company owned distributorship. And from there in the sales arena, I had the opportunity to interview and get hired into St. Louis into the marketing group, and was in brand management for an exceptionally long period of time, perhaps too long. It’s really a game for younger folks. And I was kind of getting my first bit of gray hair. Anyway, I moved also to the brand merchandise materials, group, the ad merchandising, a lot of people call it trinkets and trash branded merchandise. And eventually it came to the point that as a wash, and I saw that it was the right time for us to go in our different direction. So that’s what I did. That’s been about 14 years ago. And what I realized at GM and Tyson is that I hadn’t gotten to the point that I now try to get people in companies to and that is finding out what I really was meant to do and what really gratifies me, so that the more I’m gratified, the more I know I’m bringing value to others. So that’s what my journey has been. Jim, you called it a journey. And that’s exactly what it was. I left hand as a bush knowing that I no longer wanted to work for a large company. I’m very grateful for the time I had there. I worked with some amazingly talented and intelligent people Well, I learned a great deal from them, I had some wonderful experiences. But that type of life wasn’t me any longer. So I started on a path of self discovery. And that’s what I now refer to in my business and rely on in my business as the best way I can help others. So I started attempting to be a consultant in the same context and the same mindset that you have working for a corporation. And I was attempting to bring that to small and midsize enterprises. It didn’t work, the ideas were good, the concepts were very sound, but I didn’t know how to translate them from corporate speak to more realistic, everyday smaller business mentality. So it took me a long time to do that. And as I did that, I was going through self discovery. And that’s what I’ve done for the past 14 years is is just come through learning more about what my true purpose is, what my passion is, and how I can bring that to bear. You mentioned early on the seven C’s of branding, which are something that came out of my journey. And very simply, it’s seven stages, seven touch points of building a brand and continuing to evolve a brand. Honestly, I don’t think it’s necessarily beneficial to get into it on the podcast, but I’m happy to if you’d like just because it takes some time. It starts with control, actually knowing what we can control and what we can’t and then moves to clarity. And with clarity, we get conviction. And that’s when we start to know exactly what our purpose is. From there goes to conversion, how do we take the intangible and make it tangible, something that’s deliverable, and then we get into communication and connections. And lastly, it’s a matter of consistency, bringing all of that to bear at the same time. So that’s a real brief overview of the type of thinking that goes into my branding philosophy. So So at what stage did you pick up the Go Giver principles? And
Tyson Mutrux
how has it really affected your life?
Bill Ellis
Wow, the Go Giver has affected my life in ways that few people would imagine. I first met Bob Berg in St. Louis, when he gave a talk, morning talk on actually his first book, which was entitled Endless Referrals. And I instantly realized that what he was talking about how to build a business and assure yourself analyst referrals was the process that I needed to learn. And that was a key element that I was missing and trying to have a successful business. So I got into study group on animals referrals, and part of that was, I was given a copy of the book, The Go Giver. And then I was given tickets to a conference that Bob used to hold every year in Florida. So I read the book and immediately realized that it resonated with me, I wanted the conference met Bob bet, the co author John John David Mann, and the principles of providing value in a very genuine way. And being open to receiving what the universe gives us in return, matched exactly my feeling. So the benefits I’ve gotten from that place and our friendships and mentorship with both Bob Berg and John David, man, I’ve been able to take that philosophy and their amazing way of telling their story and the principles of stratospheric success, and incorporate that into my business, and in turn, share that thinking and that way of not just business, but frankly, that way of living with my clients and people that I engage with. But perhaps the single biggest impact and the reason I’m in Dubai is I mentioned Bob used to have a business conference every year. And at one point, he finally five years ago, five and a half years ago, we finally use the Go Giver name in the title of the conference. I was going down because I was already a certified Go Giver coach. And there’s a woman who lived in Dubai who went because she was a huge fan of the Go Giver. She had read the book when it first came out and use it as the benchmark for a business. She was just starting here in Dubai. She had become very close friends with Bob via social media and particular Twitter. And when she heard about the conference, she thought, this is the perfect time to go meet Bob and learn more about the concept of the book. So we both ended up at this conference with Go Giver we met there was a spark from there a relationship ensued, and she and I were married just under two years ago. So from from being a Go Giver certified coach to finding the absolute most amazing, perfect woman from and my life, it was quite a journey, quite a gift.
Jim Hacking
That’s awesome bill. All right. So, you know, most of our listeners are lawyers, most of our listeners are newer lawyers, I would say who’ve been out on their own, you know, it ranges. But generally, our, our biggest group, I would say, have been out, you know, three, four or five years on their own. They’re trying to build a practice, build a brand, and many of them are in very competitive fields a lot to personal injury law to family law. And so if you were to sit down with one of our listeners and a newer lawyer, describe the process of what you would do with them and explain what it’s like to work with Bill Ellis?
Bill Ellis
Well, the first thing I would do is start asking questions, Jim, I would start asking what drove them to a profession of being an attorney, what drove them to the specific field of law that they’ve chosen to pursue? I try to assess whether they are 100% comfortable and what they’re doing and how they’re doing it. Whether they are with a large law firm, with a corporate feel, whether they’re in a small practice, whether they’re wanting to start their own, just trying to assess what you know, what I mentioned earlier, the in the seven C’s, you know, the control, what can you control? What can you not control as an attorney, but then let’s get into clarity. And I would work with and discuss with the individual and ask them, you know, what does she want to be doing? What does he see himself in two years, three years, four years, and go through a whole process of clarity and clarification and finding that out, the whole purpose is to make certain that in this case, as an attorney, there is a clear understanding of why they want to be an attorney, what their skill set is, how their skills and their purpose match up and what the relevance of that is. And then it’s a question of finding the right audience to bring that relevant message to. And that’s when you get into brand messaging. So let me give you an example. The two of you are both successful attorneys. And you’re both in different fields. Jim, you we met because of your chosen field of law and immigration law, because obviously, I have some things in that area that we had to discuss. And we did. So your first point of differentiation is that you are an immigration attorney. So that makes it very unique for you just right off the top. From there your approach, when Jim hacking comes to the table, you bring a personality, you bring a passion, you bring an insight, you are so keen on educating your newsletter, I just got one this morning. As a matter of fact, you’re very thorough and passionate, social media communication, you’re very open, you’re very passionate, you’re very helpful. And you’re very keen on explaining, this is the law. This is how it should work. This is how sometimes it doesn’t work. And you set yourself up as exactly what you are a passionate expert in immigration law. Now Tyson, on the other hand, is in a small firm, if I’m not mistaken, it’s just you and one partner, attorney, right, Thyssen and you do personal injury law. But what starts to set you apart, and personal injury lawyers, there’s plenty of them. And what sets you apart as I see it is you and your partner’s commitment to caring about people. Your first cut when it comes to why am I doing this is I can help people that need help. It’s not, let’s go find the biggest potential lawsuit that we can because we’re going to make a ton of money. It’s how do we help people that need help? How do we take the person whether they’re very poor and downtrodden person that’s been taken advantage of, or whether it’s a huge company that that is had issues? You don’t care about that as much as how can we help? That’s a clear point of difference that you guys bring to the table, and is significantly different in my experience from personal injury lawyers, advertisements that I see on a consistent basis.
Tyson Mutrux
So obviously, this is fantastic assessment. I didn’t mean because y’all, but I just wish you wouldn’t have said such great things about Jimmy.
Bill Ellis
Well, you know, I’ve gotten to the point in my life that if there’s good things to say I say, oh, so yeah, it’s easy to say good things about good people. And I really tried to do that. And I’ve also learned to not say as many bad things about the people that aren’t quite as good and just kind of let that go its own path. But yeah, so So again, just to try to finish off that question because it’s a great question. A new attorney has to determine what sets them apart how How do they set themselves apart? How do they communicate? What is the relevance that they bring? Who are they most relevant to? And how do they best communicate that. And then the other thing to understand very quickly is that your brand is ever changing. It’s ever evolving. I hear the phrase a lot, we’re going to rebrand and I understand the thinking there. But your brand isn’t your logo, your brand isn’t the name of your law firm. The brand is the value that you bring, it’s the essence, it’s what makes Jim hacking, the the successful immigration attorney that he is, it’s what makes Tyson matrix the successful Personal Injury Attorney it is, then you understand that, and you out and message it effectively. And that’s gonna change over time that’s going to evolve. So it’s not necessarily rebranding, it’s a matter of evolving the bill,
Tyson Mutrux
I guess, how would you recommend that some of our younger attorneys get started with that? I know you sort of talked about that. But with the younger attorneys, the ones that are just starting out or just starting the firm, how would they get started? Let’s say they can’t afford you. Let’s say they can’t afford a branding expert, or the where do they start?
Bill Ellis
Well, first of all, I’m not as out of the pricing ranges, as you might think. But regardless of that, it’s a matter of sitting down and truly asking tough questions of oneself. And that is, what am I doing? Am I truly following? Am I passionate about what I do? And it’s the Simon Sinek Golden Circle of why what is my why, what makes me tick. Building a brand and being successful is a matter of three things. It’s finding a passion. It’s finding how that passion connects to a purpose, your purpose, and then it’s a wrapped up in a tremendous amount of persistence, because nothing comes overnight. So to find that out, it’s a matter of asking yourself tough questions. And if you can’t find a branding authority, find a trusted advisor, find a mentor, find an attorney who’s been successful. There are countless people and countless attorneys. I know all the jokes about attorneys, and that’s sometimes fine. But I know a tremendous number of attorneys who are so willing to help a young attorney to say ask me the questions that you need to ask. So find someone who can be a mentor within the legal field, find someone who can be a mentor that’s just been successful in business in general, and ask them say, how have you become successful? How have you differentiated yourself? How have you become known as a nationally recognized? Successful immigration attorney, Jim hacking? Ask questions people want to
Jim Hacking
help. We’re talking today with Bill Ellis. You can find bill at branding for results.com. And Bill, I love your blog and your weekly newsletter, types. And I don’t know if you’re on Bill’s list, but each week he profiles, sort of someone who’s really done a good job of branding and he goes really in depth some of these stories. I’ve read about people that I already thought that I knew, but you really find some good nuggets to explain people success. Can you talk a little bit about the importance of your newsletter and sort of how you go about working on it each week?
Bill Ellis
Absolutely. I started writing this blog over three years ago, three and a half years ago, and I published my first blog and it was titled Friday’s fearless brand. And I posted it inside of a private Facebook group for other Go Giver coaches. And one of those coaches my friend, Doug Wagner, in Calgary, Canada, a, sent a note and said, well, since his greatest fear was brand, I guess we’ll see the next one next Friday. And I thought, oh, boy, I made a mistake. I took him at his word. And I started doing it once a week. And my thought is this very simply, is to profile a person, a place or a thing. I’ve done men, I’ve done women, I’ve done business product services. I’ve done the country of the United Arab Arab Emirates. I’ve done fictitious characters. I’ve done Elmo from Sesame Street and document stuff, and partly because of my granddaughters influence. But the point is, I want people to understand truly what a brand is, and the essence of a brand. And the best way I found to do that is through telling a story. So when I find someone that I or something that I determined to be a tearless brand, I get real excited about understanding what did they do what in their life got them to the point of accomplishing what they’ve accomplished? And like you said, Jim, a lot of these people, a lot of these companies, I thought I knew. And so what I do, every week is determined who my subject is going to be or what my subject is going to be and I start doing research and they can take me Hours and hours to go through finding that nugget and trying to find that little pearl that really helped. Step these and I’m gonna keep talking about individuals people because it’s easier that sets these people apart. So by example one one Friday’s fearless brand is Sara Blakely Sara Blakely created Spanx. Sara Blakely is now a very successful business person and very wealthy. Part of the key to her success was this. When she was growing up, she and her brother would come home every night and have dinner with their mother and their father. And every night at supper table, their father would ask them this question. Where did you fail today? Now that would at first make me pretty cringe worthy of my dad had asked me that. But the purpose was we all fail and failure is going to happen. So where do you fail? And importantly, what can you learn from that? So that type of thought process helped make Sara Blakely the person that she was, she tried a lot of different things and failed. So what she said is, well, what can I learn from this? And she ended up with Spanx and the success that she’s had. So those are the kinds of pearls I tried to uncover. Then, very simply, I said, Okay, chances are that we’re not going to start an internationally successful company. What can we learn from the Sara Blakely story, here’s some things that she did. And here’s how they translate into our lives as more say, normal type people more day to day people without that type of global success. And that’s, that’s the essence of what I write every week. And then, so I send that blog out in my newsletter every week and the newsletter, I try to have a short message about branding about adding value to yourself to those around you and finding just greater satisfaction in the world.
Tyson Mutrux
I feel Sara Blakely is a great story. She I listen to a podcast episode on how how they did that, or I can’t know the name of the podcast. It’s an NPR podcast, but it’s how we build this or whatever it is. I think Jimmy knows the name of it. But it’s an incredible story. She’s a billionaire now. And she’s just a great person that seems but question I have is, I’m sure you come to interact with people all the time where they’re trying to do branding, and they’re coming to you. And they’ve made a bunch of mistakes, kind of like we’re Where did you fail? They kind of thing you know, they fail all the time and certain things we all do we fail to where when it comes to branding, do you see most attorneys failing?
Bill Ellis
Oh, that’s a terrific question. I think that most attorneys fail and branding, simply by making the assumption that by being an attorney, just by putting the shingle out, as they say, that is by itself going to be enough impetus for people to come to them and do business with them. What, in particular, in the field of law, and I mentioned earlier, some of the jokes, and you guys have heard probably a whole lot more than I have. But there is a somewhat of a stigma that attorneys have to face. So in general, one of the things I first learned in that Endless Referrals talked about burgade Several years ago is this, all things being equal. People will do business with and refer business to people that they know like and trust. That’s especially true in the legal field, because there’s kind of an undercurrent of distrust to begin with. So most people, most new attorneys, and frankly, some attorneys that have been around for a long time, haven’t taken the time to really understand themselves and say, How can I be relatable to those people that would be wanting to avail themselves to my services? And why would they pick me versus the next person on the list and my field of law. And the thing that I have found and this is part of my personal experience is you can’t expect people to know like and trust you, if you don’t know like and trust yourself. And that’s why it becomes so important in my experience, what I’ve learned and what I went through on my own and what I share with others, to understand, getting to know like and trust myself, what am I doing? Am I being honest with myself? Am I being true to myself? Am I truly finding and following my passion and a purpose? Or am I just going along with what’s in front of me and I did that for a lot of years. And that can be pretty harmful. So to bring it back to attorneys, I think understanding that most business is going to be successful on a personal relationship basis. And when a successful brand does a personal brand or A commercial brand is it builds any emotional connection. And what attorneys have to do. And all of us, frankly, is create that emotional connection, that people are going to want to do business with us. We all make decisions to some degree or another, with an emotional component, we will need to do everything we can to make that emotional connection positive and rewarding. And that’s more true, I think, with attorneys and probably most other professionals.
Jim Hacking
They’ll talk to us a little bit as an aside about sort of, you’re working out of Dubai, a lot of the time and sort of the Globetrotter that you are and sort of how lawyers might think about, you know, working a little bit more remotely and not being so tied down to a particular office space.
Bill Ellis
Well, yeah, I’ve been doing a lot more traveling in the last five and a half years than I ever thought I would at this point in my life. And I’m grateful for it. And for me, what I’ve been able to learn is just more of what’s in the world and and to expand my thinking and expand my horizons. And that can happen, you don’t have to travel internationally, you certainly don’t have to travel to Dubai, if you’re in Kalamazoo, Michigan, if you go to Gulfport, Mississippi for the first time, you have a chance to expand your awareness and understanding of people and society. That’s one thing, as far as working remotely, with technology being what it is today, it’s a matter of having, I think, the right, I’ll call it infrastructure or resource. So sometimes in particular, in a field like law, having a virtual assistant or an office base that you can rely on to get a lot of the things done, that needs to be done like filing. And by filing, I mean filing with courts, not just going to the file cabinet for hard copies. So having the right infrastructure to support you. But understanding that with today’s technology, you can work from virtually anywhere. So it’s a matter of discipline, it’s a matter of planning. And it’s a matter of having the right support system in place. So that when you are traveling, you can you can still get done what you need to get done.
Tyson Mutrux
That’s a great point about that having the right systems in place. And we’ve talked about that a lot on the podcast. But, Bill, this has been fantastic. We are up against the time. So I want to make sure we’re respectful of your time, we’re gonna get to the tips and the hacks of the week. Before I do, I want to remind everyone to give us a five star review. We’re on iTunes or wherever your podcasts if you enjoy this podcast, I’m assuming you do since you listened to it. And we have a lot of regular listeners also go to the Facebook group requested join there participate there. There’s a lot of great interaction going on there. So without further ado, Jimmy want to give you a hack of the week.
Jim Hacking
My hack of the week is a podcast that I started listening to it’s called masters of scale. And it’s hosted by Reed Hoffman Reed Hoffman is a billionaire who started LinkedIn. And he profiles business leaders. It’s sort of like that, when you mentioned earlier on this show the how I built this, but yeah, sort of a unique take on it. And one of the things I really like about the podcast itself, is the fact that the high production value, you know, when you have $3.3 billion, like Mr. Hoffman does, you can pour some money into your production and it really has that sort of NPR field with a lot of good editing and backup clips, and I really enjoy it. So I think I think the people that like our show would like that one too.
Tyson Mutrux
Fantastic. It’s really weird. I heard about that when whenever it was coming out, and I just didn’t listen to that. I just thought it would be salesy, but I’ll check it out. I just assumed because LinkedIn, they’d be trying to hawk us a bunch of stuff. But Bill, aren’t we already we asked our guests to give the tip of the week you got some before us?
Bill Ellis
Yeah, I do. And I’m gonna tie this back to both doing business as an attorney or just in general. And also back to the gift of the relationship in the marriage that I have here in Dubai. When I first met my wife, Tara, we started to communicate a lot through social media and technology. And it got to the point of me saying, Well, I’ve got granddaughters and I’m in St. Louis, you got children, and you’re in Dubai, and this and that, and this and that. And here’s what she told me and this is what made our relationship come to fruition. And it’s advice that I give people all the time because it makes sense whether you’re in a relationship or whether you’re starting a new law practice, as very simply this she said, Why are you creating roadblocks that don’t yet exist? We might come to those roadblocks and that’s when we can address them. In the meantime, I invite you to go on this journey with me and see where it takes us. And boom she had me it was it was amazing. So to take that is if you’re starting a new practice as a young attorney, don’t start cre Reading issues that don’t exist, you’re gonna have enough issues that do exist. Don’t create issues. Take what comes and deal with it as you as you go and it’ll work out fine.
Tyson Mutrux
What a fantastic piece of advice that that is a great one. My tip of the week, William Ed talked about on the Facebook group, something called SERP book STRP be okay, at SERP book.com allows you to track your keywords for your websites. And we’ve been using it for a few weeks now we’ve been seeing, it’s just incredible. It tells you where you were and kind of where you’re headed. If your keywords are going up, or keywords going down, you put all the keywords, and there’s different pricing plans for the number of keywords, but you’re able to put them all in there. The one that you want to track. And you can see, you know, if you’re going down, you’re going up, you’re staying the same. It really is incredible. And as, as William put in a Facebook message to me said, you know, why wouldn’t someone want to track the just how well their website’s doing. And so I highly encourage you to do it. It’s super easy to use. All you do is you plug in your website, you plug in the keywords and attract it for you super simple. There’s also some Google Local stuff you can do in addition to some YouTube stuff, but it’s really good. So mine is cert book.com. Bill, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This has been really great. So people want to check Yeah, how do they get ahold of you?
Bill Ellis
Email bill at branding for results.com or they can feel free to give me a call a country code one US Area code 314-807-0923. So email or phone either one works. Hey, Tyson,
Jim Hacking
I wanted to add one more thing I thought it’d be good for us to start ending our show with some of our iTunes reviews. We got a new one from Big Mike Albie, down in Texas, personal injury a good friend of ours. He said wow, this is a great podcast. I’m currently working my way through each episode. So much value to be had. Thanks, Jim and Tyson. So we love those reviews. Tyson mentioned that earlier, hop on iTunes, leave us a review and we’ll give you a shout out on a future episode.
Tyson Mutrux
That’s a great idea. Jimmy, we appreciate you read that. And, Bill, thank you for coming on. We really appreciate it was you did a really good job and we really appreciate you coming on. Thanks, Bill.
