In this episode, Jim and Tyson interview attorney Michael Liner, the founder of Liner Legal LLC., a social security disability practice. They will go over his practice, struggles, strategies, marketing and objectives.
Michael’s firm: http://linerlegal.com/
http://www.nadr.org/
Hacking’s hack: A movie! The Founder.
The story of Ray Kroc, a salesman who turned two brothers’ innovative fast food eatery, McDonald’s, into the biggest restaurant business in the world, with a combination of ambition, persistence, and ruthlessness.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4276820/
Michael’s tip: If you are thinking about marketing, focus con where your clients go. Intersect with them in actual daily life.
Tyson’s tip: An app to make videos, film and edit really quick.
https://itunes.apple.com/ar/app/filmmaker-pro/id1082956994?mt=8
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Transcripts: Michael Liner: High Volume Practices
Michael Liner
So much of the marketing that I do is going out to hospitals, clinics, you know, any place where I think my clients are going to be frequenting, and I want to speak to them about, you know how a Social Security case works, because their patients or their clients are experiencing, you know, the fight to get social care that I’m battling every day for them. It’s important to their patients or clients that there at least have a general understanding of the process.
Unknown Speaker
Run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum layer podcast, podcast, your hosts, Jim hacking and Tyson metrics. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.
Jim Hacking
Welcome back to the maximum lawyer podcasts. I’m Jim hacking.
Tyson Mutrux
I’m tasting music. Hey, Jimmy, how you doing?
Jim Hacking
I’m great. Jason. I’m great. And I’m excited about our guest today. His name is Michael liner. He’s an attorney from Cleveland. We have a whole contingency in Cleveland. I think if we ever have an actual meetup and face to face real world time, I think we’re gonna have to do it in Cleveland, what do you think?
Tyson Mutrux
no brainers kind of be in Cleveland, it not St. Louis Cleveland. Our guest this week is Michael Weiner. He’s a social security disability attorney out of Cleveland, Ohio, as you said, Michael, you want to tell the listeners about yourself a little bit.
Michael Liner
Chair. My name, as you said is Michael Eisner, I have a social security disability practice. I started the practice in 2013 on my own. After that, I can’t say I started but I kind of directed the social security practice for a couple years right out of law school for the largest worker’s compensation firm in Ohio, and I started the practice in 2013. At that time, I was disability is kind of a difficult practice area. And it’s one that’s evolved quite a bit over the years, not necessarily positive evolvement. When I started in 2011, handling social security cases, judges around the country were generally approving 65% of the cases that they heard, and by 2013, and this played a role in why I left the firm that I was practicing with, it had turned into the point where the judges were approving only about 30% of the cases. And with the change in approval rates, the law firm that I was working with which I still have a tremendous relationship with today, there were just too many hands in the pot for disability case where to make financial sense for them to continue doing it. So I made the decision that instead of becoming a workers compensation attorney, I really love working with my disability clients. I started the practice, then. And it’s just evolved and grown ever since. And I’m fortunate to say I really have kind of the practice of my dreams at this point.
Jim Hacking
Michael, I think you and I both share a couple of similarities. I think one we both probably are what you would consider volume practices where we’re having a lot of cases that take a long time, we’re both dealing with federal bureaucracies. And I think that, at least for me, I mean, there are not many disability attorneys in St. Louis. And I’m often scratching my head, wondering who exactly to send it to there seems to be like one guy in town that everybody sends it to. But I wonder if that’s true in Cleveland, as well.
Michael Liner
So it’s interesting that you say that, just like there. There’s a lot of great young, talented attorneys entrepreneurial minded in Cleveland, there’s also a lot of great social security attorneys in Cleveland, and for the size of the city. It really is oversaturated, which has been kind of interesting for me. But what’s been unique about the growth of my practice is that even though I would say there’s probably eight to 10, large firms, large, high volume firms handling disability cases in Cleveland, they’re slowly phasing out, right, so I was talking about how the approval rate dropped quite a bit in 2013. And it’s come back a little bit, nothing like what it was before, but my competitors are literally twice my age. And so most of them are not still in growth mode. And even though they’re competitive, they’re trying to get cases, they’re not as interested in the grass roots, you know, how do I find the perfect place to intersect with my client type marketers that I’ve become, and so it’s been really a competitive advantage for me that when I’m meeting with, you know, potential referral sources, you know, I’m not somebody that phasing out I’m somebody that’s in growth mode, you know, I you can work with me for the next 30 years, and nobody else that you can meet within town that’s actively handling social security cases can say that literally. If you were to go through a roster of the probably, you know, top 10 Volume social security firms in Cleveland, we’re probably two or three at this point. But each of those competitors are, you know, the age of their partners or their, you know, the firm owners probably in their mid 60s are close to it. So the real interesting time for me to just be able to be in this growth mode and looking around and nobody else’s grabbing for clients the way that we are, but trying to do it the right way. And being selective with the cases that we take, it is a volume business. I mean, you know, I’m not totally familiar with what the volume is like in an immigration practice. But you know, we’ve got over 1000 clients, active cases that we’re working on. And so it’s tremendous volume, but it can be really rewarding. And I know that that’s something that you’ve discussed a lot is how rewarding your work is. Michael, it
Tyson Mutrux
seems like you really entrenched yourself in just the education about Social Security disability, he’s speaking to a variety of different organizations routinely, do you want to talk a little bit about how that’s affected your practice? And how you got involved in that? Sure.
Michael Liner
So, you know, it all kind of arises out of the fact that especially when I was starting off, I didn’t have any money. I didn’t have a TV budget, I didn’t have a radio budget. That was how do I find clients cheaply. And I actually don’t even remember what I was reading. I mean, I’ve consumed so much material over the years, but education marketing from day one was something that I it just, it works with the type of referral partners that I want. And so, so much of the marketing that I do is going out to hospitals, clinics, physical therapy, offices, chiropractors, you know, any place where I think my clients are going to be frequenting, and I want to speak to them about, you know, how a Social Security case works. I’m not trying to make you know, a doctor or a nurse practitioner, or counselor, an expert in the type of law that I do, they don’t want to be that but because their patients or their clients are experiencing, you know, the fight to get Social Security that I’m battling everyday for them, it’s important to their patients or clients that they at least have a general understanding of the process. So when I, you know, position myself with a new referral partner, I always make it about them. It’s never knocking on the door, saying, Hey, I think that, you know, people that could be my clients are coming in here, I’d like you to refer them to me, the approach has always been Hi, you know, my name is Michael Eisner. I’m an attorney that handles, you know, social security disability cases. But I want you to understand, I’m not coming to you asking for you to refer me a bunch of clients. What I’m trying to do is position you better with your patients or your clients. So that when they come to you with the issues that I help people with, you at least have some understanding, you don’t feel like you’re, you know, behind the eight ball when they asked you questions about disability paperwork that may be coming into your office or medical records. And it really just works. And what’s been amazing to me, and maybe this is just a different mindset of, you know, the marketers that the marketers that I speak to and work with a lot is people aren’t approaching their, the, you know, my typical referral sources that way other than me, when I knock on those doors, as I have like to, you know, just speak to your staff for half an hour, I’ll provide a lunch, I’m not asking you for anything, they love it. And they haven’t even had anybody approached them with that type of pitch. Now, of course, what naturally happens is that when I’m when you know, after I speak to them, I’ve positioned myself as the expert in the community on disability topics. And so whenever it comes, whenever, you know, a social security issue comes up, the first thought is called light or legal. But the approach is always what what can I do for you not? What can you do for me? And it just works? It connects with people they don’t, their guards are down, because then I’m not just, you know, the next salesman coming into the office.
Jim Hacking
Michael, I liked the idea of the lunch and learns and reaching out to referral partners like that. How do you go about identifying the people that you want to offer that to? So
Michael Liner
in the back of my mind, and I think that I might have hinted at this earlier, and I know it’s been talked about in other podcasts. I’m always thinking about who is my perfect client? And where do they go on a typical day, right. So I’ve already talked about how, you know, my clients, if you’re applying for disability, you’re seeing doctors if you’ve got a case, so doctors, mental health therapists, physical therapists, anybody in the medical profession is a logical referral partner for us. But beyond that, and this is kind of what’s evolved, they call it the winder legal toolkit. And if you go to my website, the first thing that you’ll see is a video where I explain the wider legal toolkit kind of backup a little bit when I meet with clients for the first time a question that I almost always get asked when they hear you know, it takes two years to get social security benefits on average from the time a person applies. How am I supposed to prove vied for myself during that time, how am I supposed to keep food on my family’s table? How am I supposed to keep a roof over my head? You know, I’ve got creditors calling me because I can’t pay my bills. So what we’ve done and this is kind of my unique This is my USP is we have created this liner legal toolkit of resources where, and this plays into your question, I want to have as many intersect with potential clients as possible. So my clients need food stamps, they need homeless assistance, if they don’t currently have housing, they need foreclosure assistance, if they have a home that they’re at risk of losing, they need to get Medicaid, if they don’t currently have Medicaid, they need to, you know, be referred to a an attorney that assists with federal debt collection practices act claims FDCPA, if they’ve got Mark, if they’ve got, you know, collections agencies that are targeting them with bills that they can’t pay, and they’re approaching them in a hostile manner. So those are all not only things that my clients need, but potential clients of mine are also going to all those places, I’ll tell you a great story. So a couple years ago, and this is when I was kind of building my toolkit, I was just scrolling around on the internet. And I found that the Greater Cleveland Food Bank, which is an excellent organization, I’m very active in a lot of their different programming. They had 17, case managers, outreach, people type, who all they did all day long was sitting in office, and file applications online for people for food stamps, county cash assistance, Medicaid, things that my clients need, while we’re waiting for their case, to, to hit. And I reached out to them and said, Listen, I really need your help. I’ve got all these clients that have issues that you can help with, I would really, really, really love it, if we could work out some type of relationship where I just, you know, gave somebody a direct number. Maybe you can even come into my office once a month and just meet with a lineup of clients of mine, and help them sign up for these benefits that they need. And they loved it so much. They said to me, Michael, we’d love to work with you. We’re happy to handle you know your referrals to us. We get about 1000 calls a month from people, would you like us to ask them if they’re applying for social security disability? So think about that. I went to them thinking how do I benefit my clients, there’s a perfect intersect with what they’re doing and what my clients need. And they flipped it around and said, Hey, we’re gonna ask 1000 people a month if they need, you know, this resource that you help people get? And then can we refer them to you? Yeah, I’d love that I love you know, you’d asked 12,000 people a year if they if they need my legal assistance. And but it was all about how do I help my client? And where does my client go so that I can intersect with them more and better. And it’s been an excellent relationship from my office. That’s just an example.
Tyson Mutrux
Like, we have a lot of just awesome. guests on the show. A lot of people have very successful attorneys. And you’re you’re one of those. But the question always, I always like to ask is, What is something you struggle with? What is your biggest struggle? What do you what do you go to bed at night thinking about whenever you’re laying your head on your pillow? What is that, that thing that bothers you when you go to bed?
Michael Liner
I think the big thing is, like we said, I have this volume practice. And we have so many calls every single day. And it is so hard to keep my clients happy. During this two year wait period where they don’t have money, they’re losing their home, they don’t have a way to pay for food. You know, I live in Cleveland, it’s starting to get cold outside, which is, you know, very challenging season in the winter. For a lot of my clients, we get a lot of desperate calls around this time of year. You know, is my hearing coming up? Can I expect benefits anytime soon? So, communication with clients is something that keeps me up at night and trying to perfect that and let them know that we’re here to support you. You know, so that I would say that that’s one big thing. What else keeps me up at night? What else keeps me up at night? Not really sure how else to answer that question.
Jim Hacking
No problem at all. We’re talking with Michael liner today of liner legal in Cleveland, Ohio, Michael with 1000 open cases, I would imagine that dealing with a lot of client inquiries and client questions as the cases proceed. takes up a lot of time. Can you talk about how you just manage a caseload like that? What’s your team look like? And sort of how do you do it logistically day to day?
Michael Liner
Yeah, so I’m very fortunate. You know, one thing that it’s I guess it’s part of my story and how I got where I am. I have very severe ADHD. In fact, I went to a special school growing up in Detroit for children that had ADHD. I was such a bad kid in school that I was asked not to return to that school. And so my to kind of answer your question, how is it dealing with it? I’ve always known it was important for me to hire people that are compensated for my weaknesses, I, we have, let’s see five full time people in the office that are working up our cases, we have a another attorney in the office that’s handling social security cases. And I guess the big thing for me has always been the realization that because of the way that that I’m limited, I can’t focus on things. So particularly long periods of time, I need to be hopping around a lot between tasks, I hire people that are good at what I’m bad at. So I guess the most important thing that we do is we always try to manage client expectations right at the outset, and let them know what this process is like, we have a lot of clients that will come to us having already been represented by another attorney in the past. And after meeting with me or the other attorney that’s in the office here, they’ll say to us very frequently, wow, you know, in two years of working with this other attorney, I never understood half the things that you just told us. So managing expectations from the beginning is very important. Another thing that’s very important is, you know, staying in contact with with our clients during this long process, and in a way that tries to tries to minimize their desperate phone calls to us. So if the average case that we have takes about two years, and we’ve got a high volume of clients, that’s a lot of phone calls that we’re getting every single day, the rule in the office is we have to have at least one touch with our clients every month, which is not a problem for the first six, eight months of the case when somebody’s going through the disability process at the initial level. And then we have what’s called a reconsideration level, which is the first stage of appeal, there’s enough happening with the case that we’re probably communicating with our clients even more than monthly at that point. But once somebody has been denied Social Security a second time, and we’re waiting for them to have a hearing, there’s this just gigantic blank space of about 15 months, where realistically, there’s not a lot happening with the case, we’re just waiting for it to get assigned to a judge and then to go to a hearing. And so one thing that we try to do is find points of communication with the client. One thing that’s been very helpful to us just to let clients know that, you know, to keep us in mind, and to know that we’re thinking about them, as we do have a monthly client newsletter that goes out. Now, I don’t count that as you know, a monthly touch just because they’re getting an email from us every month, with a newsletter that we mailed to them, I only consider that three of the 12 touches even though they’re getting 12 A month instead. So what you know what we’ve developed our different automatic emails that get sent out to our clients, where it tells them anytime there might be a minor change in the case to what we’re doing here in the office. But for example, if we see that somebody’s case was assigned to a judge, or that you know that new records were exhibited, or we receive new records, we just try to reach out to them and let them know, Hey, I wanted to let you know that there’s been this change in your case. And really, it’s not a major impact on the case overall. But what it does that lets them know that we’re still thinking about them, we’re actively working on their behalf. And then we also encourage them to give us a call, at least every six to eight weeks to let us know about any updates in their medical treatment. But keeping in touch with clients for so long during this process, when they’ve got so much else going on in their lives trying to fight for these benefits is very difficult.
Tyson Mutrux
Michael, you’ve been running your firm for a little while, but you decided to take on a shareholder earlier this year. Can you kind of go through that decision making process and tell us why you made that decision?
Michael Liner
Yeah. So in the beginning of this year, I mean, we I started talking to Andrew November, he joined my office officially in April, we’d been talking for a long time about how great it would be to work together. He had been working for a competitor for a number of years. And what I realized and this was about a year and a half ago was that my growth was kind of maxed out where it was at. I was handling, not just as many cases as I think one attorney can handle, I think I was probably handling more cases than one attorney could handle. And I was also seeing as a result of that I wasn’t able to spend as much time on the marketing and the management of the office because I was so busy doing the work. But I also in the back of my mind thought that because of my own, you know limitations with training somebody it would not make then for me to just go out and hire an associate attorney, because it would be difficult for me to train somebody that I trust from scratch. So I reached out to Andrew, who, again, you know, has been doing social security disability work for eight years for another law firm, and said, You know, I’d like you to come and join. And what it’s really allowed me to do is to regain my focus on growing the business and perfecting our systems. Because, you know, I can step out of the office and know that everything in the office is going the way that it should, I don’t have to be there for my employees to be doing their work, or I don’t have to worry that people are goofing off while I’m gone, I don’t have to worry that the phone isn’t being answered. Because not only do I have an excellent staff, but now I’ve got somebody else that invested in the success of the practice. Without question bringing somebody else into an established law firm, it’s been a challenge for both of us, because, you know, it’s kind of a, at this point, Andrew, is a shareholder, more so in the new development of the firm, as opposed to, you know, the business that I had already built beforehand, but just adjusting to the ways that we work differently. You know, he’s been working at another firm for so long that, you know, using my systems, and the way that I work up cases and handle cases has been a little bit different than he was used to, but it’s really been a great experience for both of us, we haven’t had any blowout. And, you know, I, he’s, he’s somebody that I do enjoy spending time with. So I’m fortunate that he’s that he’s been here,
Jim Hacking
Michael, longtime listeners of the show, know that one of my heroes is Dean Jackson. And he, he offers a thought exercise for entrepreneurs to think about, and that is that, what would happen if you only got paid when your clients case or your clients matter was over. In other words, you only got paid for your success. Now, it sounds like in The Social Security Disability realm, that’s exactly what happens. Talk to us a little bit about how that impacts your running of your firm and how you move your cases.
Michael Liner
Big time. Yes, we work only based on the positive results of the case, we were completely on contingency. It’s kind of unique, how we our fees are set, there’s a statutory fee that the federal government has, we get paid a percentage of clients back pay, and unless we win their case, we don’t get anything. And so that can certainly be very scary. For me, especially when I see the you know, when several years ago seeing a decline in the approval rating and realize how much challenging was going to be to win every case, that that we have. So we really have to go all in on these cases, you know, I can’t settle for value or anything like that, I have to make sure that we’re taking strong cases, and we’re working them up well, and getting our clients ready for when we do go to court so that I can get that successful outcome. What’s been kind of interesting for me, and it’s one thing that I’m working on quite a bit is trying to perfect my intake process. Because through, you know, my disability intakes that the Office does, we find other cases across, you know, a whole wide range of practice areas that I’ve been able to refer out and get co counsel fees on workers compensation, personal injury, you know, medical malpractice cases, I’ve been really interested in mass torts lately. And so trying to use my volume intake, my volume of intakes to translate into cases that I can refer out and get paid on where even though the disability cases are so challenging, I can always pay for a lot of my expenses and hopefully make some money on top of that, from referring other cases out. Another thing that we have in the office that this is new for the last year, we have somebody who after somebody applies for social security disability and gets approved for benefits, eventually they become entitled to receive Medicare. So you know, I had to get licensed and I’ve got somebody in the office who works with my clients after they get approved for Social Security, to sign them up for their Medicare plans, which then results in, you know, a residual payment coming to the office. And so that, you know, presented its own unique challenges, but also rewards. But so much of what I’m trying to do to keep you know, a practice thriving in a struggling practice area, is trying to find, you know, ancillary ways for the office to make money even when not winning a disability case is challenging.
Tyson Mutrux
Like Well, I’m I’m really curious because you have such a large caseload, what systems do you have in place to manage that a sload. And I mean, for example, like, Do you have a certain CRM they use, you automate things just talking about your systems you have in place to manage that type of a caseload.
Michael Liner
So I use a case management software that’s called needles. Which, you know, to be honest, if I was starting a social security disability practice from scratch is probably not the first place that I would start. But you know, kind of my history is unique in the sense that when I left that large firm that I had been working for, I walked out the door with several 100 files, I don’t remember exactly how many. And so the only way for me to avoid retyping, all of that information into new case management software was just to basically copy all of the files in needles and paste them into a new needles user profile that had been established for my new firm. But one thing that has been excellent about needles is the checklist features are wonderful. Needles really drives my entire practice, it tells us, you know, when we’re due to call a client, it tells us, you know, when it tracks when we need to follow up with Social Security, to find out what’s happening with a case of some if something has been too long, it tracks every step of our intake process. So there’s reminders that automatically pop up for my intake specialist to make sure that she’s followed up with new potential leads enough times before we eventually close out the file. If the person is non responsive, you know, it really stacked all of the benchmarks for a disability case, which took us a lot of time to really go through and make sure that it was comprehensive, and we weren’t missing any steps. But, you know, our case management software has been very helpful to us. What I’m what I’m trying to do now, is to get so much more of it to be automated, where instead of us having to send a letter or call a client, which is kind of where things are at now, I want to get things to where when there’s any type of status change, and a case, needles can read that through Social Security has everything on online now. So you know, the so the changes to a case can be scanned and read and hopefully sucked into the case management software, because an email can automatically go to a client, updating them about what’s going on with their case, instead of one of my employees needing to physically pick up the phone and mail a letter. Now there’s a hidden cost. Anytime somebody sends a letter, you know, I asked people all the time, how much does it cost when you send a letter from the office? And their answer is, I don’t know, 52 cents, 56 cents, whatever it costs for a stamp. But the answer for me is it’s $7.52 or $7.56. Because it’s not just the cost of the stamp, it’s the it’s the cost that I have in paying an employee to go print out an envelope, print off a letter, make sure that it’s signed, and then even the time that it takes them to get back on task or move on to their next task after they, you know, got up and did all of that. It’s really expensive when you’ve got to, you know, take all that extra time. So if we could do things in a more automated fashion, I think that that could really help us increase our volume, and maybe even reduce our expenses that certainly in the long haul, increased volume while adding minimal expense to the to the office.
Jim Hacking
Michael, you reached out to Tyson and I recently on the Facebook group and in a message about a really exciting opportunity, like Tyson and you and I might be on a panel together in March of next year. We’re excited about that. Can you talk to us a little bit about that?
Michael Liner
Sure. So for I’m a member of an organization that is called Nadir, the National Association of disability representatives, it is a national group of attorneys as well as non attorney representatives that assist people, you know, through the disability process, and for a number of years, they’ve had me speak at their different events on marketing topics. And I, you know, I realized that their conference that they had mentioned me speaking out was going to be in St. Louis, coming up. And that the format that I’d been using to talk them which is basically just lecture style was getting kind of old. So I thought that it would be a perfect opportunity to hang out with you guys. So I sent a message asking if you guys would be interested in doing a panel style. So what I was thinking we could do would be to, you know, have a moderator ask us some questions, give some some feedback and commonly asked questions and maybe pick out somebody from the audience to do kind of a first steps of a marketing action plan with them, ask them some questions about their practice. But then I thought what maybe could even step it up another notch would be if we could translate that presentation direct going into a podcast, maybe even broadcasted on Facebook Live. And then another thing that I thought that I haven’t even presented to you guys yet I don’t know if this is the appropriate forum to do it was I know, there’s been a lot of discussion in the Facebook group recently about how do you get backlinks. And I was thinking that maybe an excellent way for to get backlinks, this could be a little bit of an experiment would be if the way that we chose who, from the audience, we would help with their marketing action plan would be to publicize beforehand where if you’re interested in participating in and, you know, being the person that we interview and pick on to help them develop their own marketing plan would be to, you know, maybe do a blog post on their own website, which then links back to our three firms, because, you know, getting direct links from, you know, relevant sources. And, you know, the people in the audience are all going to be, you know, the type of website that Google likes to see lawyers websites being referred from, maybe that’s something that we could do that would help ourselves be a nice case study.
Tyson Mutrux
I love it. I don’t know about you, Jimmy. But I think it’s a great idea. I think it’s very clever. And it’s a natural way to give us some Google juice waiting, Jimmy.
Jim Hacking
Sounds great to me, perfect.
Michael Liner
I’ll see if I can work that out and get that announced around and see if people want to apply to be picked on that way. But you know, I this this organ that this conference usually has about 300 people. So there’s definitely a good opportunity there for us to not only help people, but also do a little experiment to see how we can you know, and it’s a marketing presentation. So a perfect point that we can make is while we’re there to present and give you now a look at what we’re able to do by doing
Tyson Mutrux
a love it. All right. So Mike, we’re up against the time. So I want to before I get to the hacks and the tips of the week, I do want to remind everybody to go to the Facebook page, it has remained closed, even though Jimmy for a very short time, open it up, it’s remained closed. So make sure you ask to join the Facebook group, lots of great discussion going on there. Also, if you enjoy the podcast, which I’m assuming you do, because you listen to this point, make sure you go to iTunes and give us a five star review, or wherever you get your podcast. Jimmy, do you have your hack of the week?
Jim Hacking
I do indeed. So the boys and I and Amani watched a couple of weeks ago, it’s been on for a while now on DVD. It’s called the founder. It’s about Ray Kroc. And basically how he went into business with the McDonald brothers, and then how he sort of overtook the company. But the there’s a lot of good lessons in there, especially as you start to take on partners and versus atomization. So a lot of the things we talked about, get covered in that movie in a really interesting way. It’s a really good story.
Tyson Mutrux
Good. It really is a good movie. And it definitely will shape your opinion of Ray Kroc, one way or the other, it’s gonna shape your opinion, different than the way you probably thought it. You thought of it before. But Michael, you listen to podcasts, you know that we asked our guest to give a tip of the week you have a tip for us? Sure,
Michael Liner
I think that my tip of the week would be and it’s something that I referenced early. But I think it’s really helpful for everybody that’s trying to figure out how they’re going to, you know, implement a marketing action plan to really focus on where your clients going. And there’s been a lot of talk about, I’ve seen posts and heard conversation on on the podcast about how SEO is dead. That’s kind of the hot new phrase that I’ve heard. And I don’t know that I totally agree with that. But I definitely think that there’s a lot of low hanging fruit out there. If you just really try and visualize where your clients going, how can you intersect with them? And it’s not only on the internet, you know, in actual daily life, where are they going? Where do they eat, who are their friends, and you want to position yourself to be in as many of those places as possible, so that when a client is, you know, asking around for who’s a good attorney or they’re consuming information on selecting an attorney, you’re you’re the person that’s top of mind in as many places as possible. But first you got to identify who your perfect client is and then be where they are.
Tyson Mutrux
I love it. Great piece of advice. All right. My tip of the week is a phone app that I use to see two days ago, and it’s called filmmaker Pro, and I upgraded spend 20 bucks. It’s a $20 a year plan. But it is super easy to record and edit videos from your phone. You can add in text, you can add in images, you can add in music, you name it, you can add it in. So it’s for videos that whenever we’re actually doing from a phone and we want to get them posted really quick as opposed to sending them to an additional edit, we actually do it ourselves from our phone. It’s a really cool app. It took me I did a, I don’t know, a five minute video, it took me about two to five minutes. I don’t know what it was how I wasn’t very long. To actually edit the video, I threw in some music and threw in some tax I threw in our logo, and I was done. So super easy to use bernecker Pro, I recommend it. You can use the basic free version. And you can still add music, you can still add text, there’s just you’re limited as to there’s advanced text that you can use. There’s more a larger music library to use with the upgraded version. So I upgraded but either one would be perfect for what any any of us use. So that is my tip of the week. You guys got anything else?
