In this episode, Jim and Tyson interview Morris, a member of the Maximum Lawyer group. They will go over his career and the multi practice firm he works in; the business, marketing and different strategies he uses to get new clients. Awesome social media tips!
Morris works at https://www.martinsonandbeason.com/
https://www.martinsonandbeason.com/our-attorneys/morris-lilienthal/
Hacking’s hack: A book. KNOWN: The handbook for building and unleashing your personal brand in the digital age Paperback – January 28, 2017
by Mark W. Schaefer
https://www.amazon.com/KNOWN-handbook-building-unleashing-personal/dp/0692816062/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8
Morris’s Tip: https://www.helpareporter.com/. Grow your SEO.
Tyson’s tip: A tip. 1. Get your goals out in the open. 2. Don’t make your goals too complicated.
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Transcripts: Morris Lilienthal – Multipractice Case Study
Morris Lilienthal
In the last year, I have really gotten active on social and tried to engage my firm even more on social. And so what I’ve tried to do was to try to provide value to my audience, by sharing articles, post videos, something that’s bringing something of value to them. I’m also trying to humanize myself, try to relate to people, you know, sharing fun things that I’m doing, share mistakes that I’m making cool things that are going on with my family with my kid.
Unknown Speaker
Run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum layer podcast via podcast, your hosts, Jim hacking, and Tyson metrics. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.
Jim Hacking
Welcome back to the maximum lawyer Podcast. I’m Jim hacking to the
Tyson Mutrux
tasting matrix. Ah, me we got a pretty awesome guest on today you want to introduce him,
Jim Hacking
I said, I’m always happy to have on numbers of our group. Those usually end up being my favorite calls and podcasts. And I’m really excited today we have more Lilienthal from Huntsville, Alabama, on the line. And we’re excited to have you here more. Thanks for joining us.
Morris Lilienthal
Well, guys, I’m excited to be here. I have been active in the group for the last couple of months and got turned on to that by somebody and real thankful for that. And it’s been a great kind of a mini masterminding way for me to trow the great guests you guys are having and the great input that I’m getting from other guests and try to figure out how to incorporate that into my practice. And I’m excited to add to that if I can’t in any way,
Tyson Mutrux
or more suggest a little bit of idea of what your firm consists of what you all do things like that.
Morris Lilienthal
Yeah, so we’re kind of an old throwback firm. We’re in Huntsville, Alabama, which about 350,000. Plus, we are in a kind of a moderate sized city that has seen a boom of growth over the years, I just shared out on buffer just a minute ago, a post from MoneyWatch that we’re the number one ranked Tech City growing fastest growing tech city in the country. And so we have six lawyers now just hired another lawyer, older firm has been around 80 years. And we have a very diversified practice, I do exclusively personal injury. And I’m really the only Lorem office that does but I have a lot of big caseload and do a lot of that. And then we do probate and estate practice. We do real estate, we do a lot of corporate and business law type stuff. So real diversified practice, which can present challenges and opportunities from kind of a marketing perspective.
Jim Hacking
And Morris tell us how do you go about finding new clients? What’s your best way of attracting possible leads? Is it is it individualized to you? Is it by advertising the firm? What do you prefer to do?
Morris Lilienthal
Well, you know, I think we can you know, if I look at this from from somebody’s trying to say, you know, how can we get new business, right? I mean, we’re all testing can be the greatest personal injury lawyer in St. Louis, and you can be the greatest immigration, we’re in St. Louis. But if you don’t have clients, then the whole lot of good. So really two buckets, I would say is online and offline, right. So we want to attract new clients, through our online banks from our website, and social media. And then offline, you know, we’re trying to stay in touch with our former client trying to stay top of mind, I think a lot of people have this misconception as a lawyer that I represented Mary Sue, five years ago, and I did a tremendous job for her she was in a static, but if you haven’t stayed in touch with that person, five years later, when she needs a lawyer, for whatever reason, she’s not going to remember you, most people just totally wrong about that. So we have a very, very robust website. We’ve been building it over the years, building content and content and content, we have probably 1500 pages of content. And so we are constantly adding content, good value things. You know, I think you guys have talked about in prior episodes about longtail type searches, you know, I would encourage folks out there to think about what you search when you’re in a in a new city, or you’re searching for an HVAC company things you’re looking for issues that you have in your life, you know, search Car Accident Lawyer, St. Louis, not bad about searching that and hopeful to see where we show up. But that’s not what the average consumers searching. So we try to figure out and think like, the consumer, our potential client would be an add value and content and blogs that way for example, we have had insurance pages right so I know a lot of people will find me on some of my deep dive pages, these insurance pages that I’ll do on State Farm or USAA. And because I’m thinking people are searching car accident claim issue with USA and Alabama, you know and other than USAA or State Farm on those specific pages, the only other lawyer showing up as me so we really try to try to build a built a strong internet presence with their two that is helping Nice, you know, show up page one, right? And so then, you know, the next thing is, is once you show up on page one, you’ve got to convert that person, how are you converting that? They use it to click on you. And then once they click on you, how are you then going to get them to actually pick up the phone and call or send in the lead? And so we you know, we have several ways we do that, you know, you guys talk a lot about Google reviews, we’re bigger believers, and Google reviews and ABA reviews here at our office. And push, push, push that cool example I’ll give you a week or so ago, went and meet with in house with a new client found us online, start talking to her a little bit getting to know her and her husband, her husband was in a bad motorcycle wreck. And I said, Well, you know, Miss Smith, how did you find me the other day, looking around, she says, when I started reading your reviews, she says I knew 111 People couldn’t be wrong. You know, that’s pretty strong. And these reviews are really in depth. We’re very fortunate to have good clients that will leave information that future consumers can do so that you know what we’re doing right online. And as terms of our website is where we’re really getting a lot of contact with that and be glad to touch on, you know, some of the social media aspects of what we’re doing. And I think we’ve got some really cool stuff that we’re doing and get more information on that regard.
Tyson Mutrux
I definitely want to get to the social media and a little bit, but I’m just curious, because you will have a diversified practice, and what are the benefits and the challenges of trying to market a diversified practice? Because like with me, I can I can target for surgery, Jimmy can target immigration, but we have multiple practice areas. What are some of those challenges? And some of the advantages?
Morris Lilienthal
Well, challenges is you get pigeonholed into one practice here. So for example, one of our partners does nothing but real estate closings, and he touches a lot of folks every day. But the challenge is to think we’re real estate firm. So from our practice, if one of his closings next week, gets into an accident, they may not think about calling Morton’s in a basin because they were only here for a closing. And so that’s one of our biggest challenges is we kind of get pigeon holed there. The other is on the website on an online presence. It’s tough to try to do SEO for multiple practice areas. And what we have done to try to counteract both of those is we have tried to do a very, very good job of cross marketing. A lot of our business cards on the back have all of our major practice areas are folders that we give new new client folders on the front that has our branding and contact information has all the major bullet points for our practice areas, we give out notepads that has all marketing, that kind of thing. And then we’re constantly telling clients that and our direct mailers to clients, and when I meet with a client, you know, routed to cases this week, and I’ll explain to them look, you know what I do Mr. And Mrs. Smith, let me tell you what else we do. We’re a full service firm, we have lawyers that specialize in certain areas, you know, you go to the Orthopedic Group now, just see, there’s not just one orthopod anymore, they’ve got somebody specializes in shoulder, so my specializes in hips and knees, and so forth. And so that’s what I try to sell to our clients and about a third to 40% of my personal injury clients, I probably sell them a state plan when we’re done. Because, you know, they know like, and trust me. And so when I tell them that we can do this, they want to jump on it. And so my partners do the same. And so that’s a benefit to me and my personal injury practice is we are able to now I’ve got contact list for a lot more people than I would normally have a contact list for. So when we’re doing e newsletters when we’re doing direct mail lists and hard newsletters to our client paper newsletters, I have a much bigger client base than I would have if I was just doing PR. So you know, there’s give and take, and it’s a struggle. But I think we do it. We do it with as good of a job of it as we can. And we’re always trying to figure out ways to
Jim Hacking
enhance that more. So I think that’s great. The cross marketing can be tricky, as you’ve outlined. And I think that asking clients who you’ve just gotten a personal injury settlement, if they’re interested in getting us a plan is a great time to do it, because they have the money from the settlement that you just got for them. So that’s a great time to do it. And I’m wondering with a law firm that’s been around for 80 years, do you find yourself that there’s resistance or reluctance to sort of dive into social and all the other kinds of newer things that renewing or is the firm’s are receptive to that?
Morris Lilienthal
Well, that was an issue. So I joined this firm on the practice for 14 years now join this firm nine years ago, came from a really small firm where I had a lot of background and doing SEO and direct mail and doing came to this firm that had been at that time in business 71 years and you know, as I said, town was a smaller town when the firm was started. And it was one of these Hey, we know everybody in town we’ve gotten good results and whatever practice or with help demand People just come to us. But with, especially in the personal injury world, and with everything else, you know, the 300 pound gorilla in the room, 200 pound gorilla and people, it’s harder and harder for that kind of concept to continue that marketing to develop. So Robles that when I got here, my my partners, we’re open and receptive to doing that. But when I got here, guys, we had a generic, awful to be honest with the funnel website that was generating no business, we had no social media page. And for people, you guys have talked about this in prior episodes, we had a treasure trove of former clients. But the firm in 71 years didn’t have a client list. We had a case, you know, kind of a case management system that wasn’t very robust or not used well. And so we hired a high school kid to come in and put together a client list for us, we had extracted from our case manager as best we could. And we just put it in an Excel spreadsheet. And so it’s been growing because the firm was built, you know, on different principles in a different age. But we still rely upon a lot of those principles, because a lot of those principles still work. But we’ve tried to expand that to be you know, more modern and to, you know, continue to try to grow us and 21st century way
Tyson Mutrux
back to the basics. I love it. Well, I want to hear about the most I want to hear about the most show what you’re talking about that. And once you’ve talked a little bit about your social media approach. Yeah. So
Morris Lilienthal
left left to appreciate that. And that’s kind of how connect with you guys. So what I would tell folks is, you know, I’ve been on social for for years, but I’ve not been active. I’ve been one of these people until the last year, occasionally post a picture about my kid occasionally make a comment and do. But in the last year, I have really gotten active on social and tried to engage my firm even more on social. And so what I’ve tried to do was to try to provide value to my audience, by sharing articles, post videos, something that’s bringing something of value to them. I’m also trying to humanize myself, I try to relate to people sharing fun things that I’m doing, share mistakes that I’m making cool things that are going on with my family with my kid. And so, in doing that, a couple of things that I’ve done in the last year, they’ve really kind of really taken off and that I’ve been really tickled by was I do what are called tips for mo which are like a daily video. And I did one this morning when I came in and just do it on the fly guys. I mean, it is not fancy, I take my phone, I hit the turnaround button. And I just do a quick 62nd tip and it may be a business to it may be very rarely, but sometimes illegal to but usually a life to something fun or silly that’s going on. And I do it and a hashtag it and I share it on Twitter, share it on Facebook, share it on Instagram. And I’ve really seen a lot of response in that. It’s really cool. And then the other thing you mentioned, Jimmy was the motion Lab, which is something that I’ve done, which is been going for several months now I do it about bi weekly show where I have a either a local guest, or somebody who is a nonprofit that I have a passion for, or somebody who’s an influencer in the community that’s doing something great in our community, they don’t want to share. And so I’ve been doing that and it’s the great thing about the Moshe and the tips from the cost of it is negligible, it’s very, it’s non existent. And I’m using Bluejeans to do the most show live by my guest, share it over to Facebook, and you know, tag my guests pre promote it through post on social post promoted, upload the video to YouTube, and do but it’s allowing me to connect with my audience, not only my audience, but to my guest, and maybe their cause it’s allowing me to connect with their audience. And people get to know and know me, and it humanizes me and it spreads their word. And then later on, they find out I’m a lawyer, you know, it may come up in the conversation, but the the impetus behind it is not more slowly and follow lawyer it is more civilians, all human being trying to do good things in this community.
Jim Hacking
And more. So is that a conscious decision you made? Did you make a decision that I wasn’t just going to talk about, you know, personal injury concepts or car accidents or what to do when an insurance adjuster calls you and says they’re not going to pay for your car? Is that something you did on purpose? And sort of why did you do that?
Morris Lilienthal
Yes, it is. I think there’s a place for that. I think that is in doing other q&a videos that I think you guys have talked about before the we’ve got on our website, and then we can upload and you can share out at different times. But I think I made a conscious decision that if I want to try to build an audience, and speak to people and grow my network and my sphere of influence, I don’t think most people want to hear me bore them with personal injury talks. I think more People get to know me and like me. And I connect with people, and they trust me than I feel like, they’re going to come to me because they respect me. And they know I’m a lawyer. But I’m not talking about that I’m not in their face about that. And they know me, as, you know, the guy that gives them cool tips, or they know me as the guy that’s helping promote, you know, the Space Rocket Center, the show I had on there earlier this week. They know me, something I’m really, really passionate about is March of Dimes. They know me as the lawyer that supports the Marcia dons, that goes all out for the March of Dimes. And so that is, you know, how I get get out there and know people, but yeah, I purposely, you know, and I think most of our social media marketing, firm wise and personalized is more at 20. You know, 80% about useful information for them from our side, other sides. And product recalls that kind of stuff and valuable information. And you know, more 20% about what’s going on at the firm and doing or legal, specifically legal related stuff.
Tyson Mutrux
No, I guess they your videos work really well, those tips, because you and I, the first time we ever actually spoken personal this morning, and I felt very comfortable talking to you, you seem like a very nice guy, because I watched these videos, these tips. It’s they’re fantastic. And so they come up, you come up very genuine and very nice, very friendly. So keep doing it. I think it’s a great approach. But you had mentioned on the pre call about some SEO tips that you wanted to share, and you want to go over those.
Morris Lilienthal
Yeah, I’d be glad to share some different things with folks. And do you know, so a couple of things that, you know, we’re doing is, you know, not only the reviews and doing the trying to get in the three pack in the Google Local, but we’ve really tried to build and I’ll kind of tease a little bit about my to promote here at the end of the show backlinks. And you know, really two kings and unknown SEO guru, right, but I know just enough to be dangerous. And that is, the two keys are content and backlinks. Right. And so content, you know, you guys can control that in your own. You can build that you can have people within your office, share up make taunt draft content or have a ghostwriter help you the million ways you can do it develop good content, it’s not easy to do it in the sense that you’ve got to make yourself do it. But it’s not impossible. The backlinks is where we found a real more difficult time. And one thing we did was we tried to identify somebody that we at our firm could connect with locally that has a really strong website and a strong social presence. And so what we did, we found a group in town called Rocket City moms, who’s a past guest, by the way, on the Mesha. And they are a local moms website. And really dads too, but mainly moms. And they provide a lot of great useful information. So what we found out was they had over 200,000 visitors a month to their website at 26,000 Facebook followers. So we connected with them in the last year, and have now become an expert for them. And so every, every other month, we write an article for them within discussion what they’re looking for, but family related. So we did, why every parent needs a will. I did an article on make choosing the right car seat for your child. Those kinds of things, where we are having an article that is being posted on their website with all these visitors that they’ve got that they’re sharing on social. So we’re getting great exposure, but we’re getting great backlinks. And do so I would really encourage your users. And I’ll have a tip here later about how to another way of getting backlinks. It’s so tough for lawyers to find really strong backlinks. And that’s something that we’ve really, really focused hard on. And I think it’s paying dividends, by the way, we’re showing up in our search results,
Jim Hacking
more such tremendous. I’ve often thought that you’re working with nonprofits who have usually been around a long time and have a long Google History. They have a lot of Google juice to give. And I think that there’s a business out there for someone to go to nonprofits and say, hey, we’ll help you connect backlinks to donors or people that will promote your nonprofit. I think that’s, that’s great. We’re talking with Morris Lilienthal. He’s a personal injury attorney out of Huntsville, Alabama. And Morris, speaking of Alabama, I know you have a great campaign going on Facebook right now. Do you want to tell our listeners a little bit about it and success that you’ve seen?
Morris Lilienthal
Yeah, love to do that. That. So one of the things we’re trying to do is, is to develop more interaction on social from a farm perspective. And what we tried to come up with in the last year are some really cool and unique giveaway to give to give out into a thought as we’ve done a giveaway where people will we’ll do a like a promoted type post and have that tied to a landing page on our website. So as I mentioned earlier in the show, we’ve got an estate planning department. So we gave away an estate plan. And we you know, had people enter they come to our website, put their name, email information. And then you know, we remarket to that person. We’ve done concerts, local concerts, but what we’re doing right now we’re right in the middle of one with Alabama football. And you know, pick your team in your area where the country you live, but at least you’re in the South Alabama and Auburn football is king. And so we we’ve got football tickets that were given away to the first home game. Coming up in a couple of weeks for Alabama. We threw $250 budget at it for I think, three weeks, we targeted people specifically in the state of Alabama, that have an interest in college football. So when you know, Facebook allows you to really narrow down your interest. It’s unbelievable, guys, in the last two weeks, we’ve still got another week to go. We’ve had over 23,000 impressions 71 shares as of this morning 186, like, over 1000 clicks to our landing page on our website. And 750 Plus entries into that contest. So that 750 email addresses we’ve captured that we can use going forward for a newsletter and so forth. And a really cool idea that I got yesterday from from John Fisher and a group mastermind call we’re in about maybe Facebook Live the the drawing and do so I ordered a raffle drum this morning. And so we’re going to promote a drawing instead of just kind of drawn to having it randomly drawn and then announcing it. We’re going to try to really even capitalize on that. But for you know, a couple $100 spend on Facebook, we’re getting tons and tons a lot of interest. And our we’re seeing likes and on our Facebook page go up as well.
Tyson Mutrux
No other than sending them through your news, sending them your newsletter and things like that. Do you have any other plans for those leads that you get through that campaign?
Morris Lilienthal
Well, I think what we’re going to try to do what we may do if we do, we’ll probably remarket to them. And do we’ve done to give an example on the estate plan giveaway. What we did yes was we remarketed to them with retargeting ads on Facebook, we sent them the Facebook giveaway contest, we sent them an email that said, Congratulations to Mary Sue, we got permission from the winner. But we know that since you entered, we need to have information or questions about estate planning, for example. So we directed them to blog pages on our website and q&a pages that had more information so they could get more questions to answer. And then said, Look, if you still would like to do this, we’ll be glad to provide you a 10% discount, if you call us within so many ways. So we have ways of doing that. And I think you can sort your list, you know, then and then have people that have entered it that way. So if you wanted to do key targeting campaign is just to that portion of the list, you could do that as well. So we’re definitely going to try to you know, stay engage with these people in various ways to retarget to them, but I mean, for example, we do a an Alabama and Auburn football magnet that is kind of old school that but it is tremendously successful. We just sent out 8000 of them. And people love them. We have people asking for them and my wife gifts as a school teacher and people were asking her for extras last week. And I had it’s really funny that it’s how good of a connection I’ve made at my school to the magnetic me going and speaking and volunteering with the PTA. They had somebody come at a teacher only meeting to present about prepaid legal one of the teachers just backed up and said, We don’t need we’ve got our Lord. But it comes from you know, connecting with these people and providing help and doing and given these kinds of cool giveaways with
Jim Hacking
more being in Huntsville and being in your community. What kind of feedback or interaction are you having with people from social like in the real world? How’s it carrying over? What kind of comments are you getting from people that come to you or that see you at various events?
Morris Lilienthal
I’ve really seen a lot of you know, it’s not it’s not turning on the TV, you know, advertising campaign you’re going to call the next day. But I really am. I’ve been contacted in the last several weeks by people regarding legal issues that I know the only way that they would have contacted me was seeing me on social. I was at Rotary. Yesterday morning I had kind of an acquaintance in my rotary club. I know him but I don’t really interact with him much outside of a rotary really nice guy. Probably in his late 60s, retired. He came up to me and he stuck his hand out and he said, Hi, my name is Dennis. And the reason he did that guys was I did a tip for Moe this week where it was how my name is Morris. Introducing yourself can build you know can help you lead to building relationships. But he said, Man, I’m loving your tips from I’m watching this. I had somebody from Maryville college where I played football and East Tennessee reached out to me a couple of weeks ago. I couldn’t have picked this girl out of the lineup. I barely could remember going to school with her. But she played sports too. And I vaguely remember but she she said Marcin love my husband are loving the kids from when we watched a whole bunch of them last night. So we’re seeing Making a lot of connections with that. And so, you know, I would you know what I would tell people, when it comes to the social stuff, guys, go for it. You know, don’t be paralysis by analysis, it doesn’t have to be perfect. I think lawyers get, you know, wanting to make the video quality perfect and want everything to just be refined and perfect. I don’t think I don’t think potential clients, I think there’s maybe a place for that and some types of videos. But I think most people are understanding nowadays and you just need to get it out there and, you know, have a mindset behind it. You know, I’ve done a cool little thing on the weekend, called the weekend workshop that just came out of just an epiphany. I was up here at five o’clock one morning in a hat and a Mickey Mouse t shirt. And I just took a selfie and I said your lawyer should be at work and Saturday morning with a Mickey Mouse t shirt on. And then out of that group this weekend work shirt hashtag and give you an example how people pay attention. You know, it’s just kind of a way for my audience. It’s fun, because they’re engaging. They’re live. My shirts are all funny, funny, wacky shirts, but it’s a subtle way to show them on it. Hey, I’m at work. It’s Saturday morning at 5am. And I had a call with somebody asking me to be on a state board recently. And it’s kind of one of these things where I wanted to but it wasn’t hell yes, it was no. And I said, Man, I really appreciate the opportunity kind of thing I said, but I’ve just got a lot of irons in the fire because Oh, yeah, no, he says, I see your weekend work here to work on 5am. But I didn’t even reference any of that. But that got falls me and social. And he’s seen it. So I really think it’s getting me out there. I’m getting seen and doing and I’ve really been it’s fun. And I’m enjoying it.
Tyson Mutrux
Man, I love it. The power of social media, the power of video. We get example after example. It’s freakin amazing. So I think that’s awesome. Jimmy, I think we’re getting up against the time do you want to give your hack of the week.
Jim Hacking
So my hack of the week is a great book by a man named Mark Schaefer a CH AE fer. It’s called known. He’s a blogger on social media stuff. And other than Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook by Gary Vee, it’s the best book I’ve ever seen or read, that really distills down the kinds of things Morris has been talking about the social media world. And to me, one of the things that has made more successful and that Mark talks about in the book is consistency with social media. If you’re going to do a podcast, you have to put it out regularly, if you’re going to do videos, you got to do it regularly. And, and that it’s the consistency and the ability for people to you know, binge watch you that really helps build a connection, I think between you and your viewers or listeners, I think it’s a great book. And it’s very, very practical, which I like.
Tyson Mutrux
That’s great. Let’s check that out. Before we get to Morris is typically the case because he has a tip of the week, or to remind everyone to go to our Facebook group, make sure you request to join there get involved in the discussion. We have a lot of good discussions that go on each week. Also check us out on iTunes and give us a five star review or wherever you get your podcast. Morris, what’s your tip of the week?
Morris Lilienthal
Yeah, so, you know, part of the SEO game is trying to get backlinks, right. So one of the things we’ve tried to do is figure out ways that we can get good quality backlinks that can benefit and a lot of ways. And one site we found out that’s been really helpful for us, it’s called help out a reporter.com. So this is a site where reporters will send out blast about looking for information from subject matter experts, whether they’re looking for, you know, just quotes or little bits of information, or even articles. And we’ve got somebody here that will filter through those, and then will forward it to me on things that may be applicable. But to give you guys a quick thing we’ve gotten mentioned recently I’ve been mentioned in the Huffington Post, I’ve gotten other linkbacks the ABA NerdWallet. So we’re building backlinks and connections that are now allow us to help not only SEO, but now making connections with reporters had a reporter from ABA reach out to us this morning wanting quotes for for an article that I went ahead and sent him before the show. So we can use that from SEO allows us to show kind of an expertise. So it’s just kind of a win win to check out how about a reporter.com.
Tyson Mutrux
My tip of the week is actually it’s not a product. It’s not a website. It’s actually just a tip. This comes from something that was posted on the Facebook page. And then also a discussion I had with Mike Campbell this week. And it was about it’s about goal setting. So it’s kind of a two part goal. Or tip. One the one part is get your goal that in the open so you see them all the time because if you don’t think that if you do see them all the time, you’ll forget about them, they’ll go on the backburner you’ll get caught up in the day to day activities and they won’t be front of mind. So you need to have them out in the open. The other one is don’t make your goals too complicated. Make them very simple. Set a few goals a quarter at most. And then break those goals down a little bit more so that you can achieve them and chunk small chunks, small little bites, small victories. That way you can achieve those bigger goals. So one get them out in the open to make them very simple. I’m not saying don’t make them big, hairy audacious goal to sell I’m saying just make them Simple, don’t overcomplicate things so that’s my tip of the week. You guys have anything else put together
