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Our guest today is Deanna Johnson. She’s a new guild member here at Maximum Lawyer. She has been practicing law for five years. She started out doing community property litigation with a small firm of two guys who were experts in this area. After leaving this she went on to experience insurance defense and more.
While this built her expertise and confidence as a lawyer for other companies — she always knew she wanted to go out on her own, and start her own practice.
She thought it would take a long time to start but after finding the Maximum Lawyer Podcast and the Guild her plans have changed! She shifted gears and planned for all the things she needed to figure out before she quit her job before she went out on her own. Which she did!
Join us in this conversation where she shares about starting your own business, quickly and successfully!
Episode Highlights:
03:25 The actual moment that it clicked …
04:29 First week on the job and where 90% of the work comes from
05:53 Some mindset shifts, before going out on your own
06:59 Exceptions vs. reality when going out on your own
08:30 How did you pick your practice area?
11:40 What does your day look like?
15:15 Your first hire?
17:46 Ideas for getting that revenue up
19:15 Niching down your firm’s practice
21:26 Looking back, is there anything you would’ve done differently?
Jim’s Hack: read the book called What’s In It for Them? to get into author Joe Polish (co-host of the I Love Marketing Podcast) mindset of how important connections with other people are.
Deanna Tip: Build connections by defining your target audience, then go do something you enjoy and have natural conversation with people.
Tyson’s Tip: Use this easy editing app called InShot for assistance with editing your TikToks
🎥 Watch the full video on YouTube.
Connect with Deanna:
Resources:
- Join the Guild Membership
- Subscribe to the Maximum Lawyer Youtube Channel
- Follow us on Instagram
- Join the Facebook Group
- Follow the Facebook Page
- Follow us on LinkedIn
Transcript: Starting Your Own Law Business Sooner Than You Think
Speaker 1
Run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum lawyer podcast, podcast. Your hosts, Jim hacking and Tyson metrics. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm.
Jim Hacking
Welcome to the show. Welcome back to the maximum lawyer Podcast. I’m Jim hacking.
Tyson Mutrux
And I’m Tyson Meatrix. What’s up Jimmy?
Jim Hacking
Well, Tyson, the beat goes on. We’re just recording machines today. This is our third one of the day. I think we’re doing six altogether. I’m enjoying batching our work and spending the day with you.
Tyson Mutrux
Yeah, I feel like we’ve got more today. But I’m, I don’t know, I really enjoyed days like this. This is a lot of fun. I want to kick you for saying the beat goes on because now that song is going to be stuck in my head the entire day. The beat goes on. I can’t say no. But
Jim Hacking
I can get some other ear worms for you. If you want go for
Tyson Mutrux
it. Would you like to I can’t read the bio.
Jim Hacking
Oh, sure. Our guest today is Deanna Johnson. She’s a great guild member, a new guild member. We’re glad to have her Welcome to the show.
Unknown Speaker
Hi, guys. Thanks for having me.
Tyson Mutrux
So Dana, tell us a little bit about your journey. And what brings you here today.
Speaker 4
All right. So I’ve been practicing for five years. I am in South Louisiana. I live in Baton Rouge. I graduated law school and went to law school in New Orleans. And then I’m back in Baton Rouge now LSU undergrad, and I graduated law school. And I started out doing community property litigation with a small firm here of two guys who were just really true experts in that area. They really niche down. And that was a really cool thing to see as a new grad attorneys just really doing what they do best. I did that for about a year and a half. And then I left and did insurance defense. I was in house with Geico doing staff counsel work. Yes, yes, totally. So I did that for several years. And I’m really thankful for that work. It was definitely trial by fire, great litigation experience. And then I always knew I wanted to go out on my own, I thought it was going to be a bit longer. But I actually found you guys podcast, probably about a year ago, at this point, I was out on maternity leave with my second and I started listening to you guys. And my plan changed. So I want to thank you guys for that. You. Not only did I always knew I was going to be able to do it, but because uh, you guys, I saw that I could do it a lot sooner than I was planning on doing it. So I entirely shifted gears, I started spent my last month of maternity leave just making a plan of all the things I needed to figure out before I quit my job. And I got that in order. And so that was about November that I found you guys on it. And it was a recommendation from someone on Reddit, just saying hey, does anyone have any lawyer podcast recommendations, and someone mentioned you guys and I just picked it up. But from about November until April 18 is when I left my job. So I spent that time getting it all together. And here I am. So six months in at this point. I’m practicing mostly family law with some estate planning and just a little bit of personal injury.
Jim Hacking
I love it. I love it. So what was the plan before? And what was the actual moment that it clicked that you were going to do this faster.
Speaker 4
So I wanted to stay because I wanted more trial experience. Of course, the majority of my time there with that firm was during COVID. So any litigation work that I had set had gotten pushed. During my three years there, I only had one trial, and I desperately want a trial experience. I want a jury trial experience. And I thought oh, you know, let me hang out for a couple more years. And maybe I’ll get this and as Tyson knows what personal injury I mean, 98% of these cases settle. So when I really looked at the work I was doing, I really felt that I had maxed out on my learning ability. At that point. It was just turning and turning. And what little bit I didn’t know, I have built such a great network of other attorneys that I realized I don’t need to sit here for another three years. If I run into these issues. If I run into these complexities, I have plenty of people to work with to help them get me through it. So let’s do this.
Tyson Mutrux
So let’s fast forward to that first week, you launch the firm walk us through that what you’re going through mentally, just what your week was like
Speaker 4
so I recorded myself on video the first day I was thinking about you guys and all the things you do so I made myself a little video testimonial that I didn’t watch. I was like this is gonna be horrible, but I’m going to record it and it’ll be fun to use one day whenever I’m hopefully celebrating 1020 years here. That first week was still a lot of getting things together but at that point it will least the floodgates had open, I’m ready to take on work, I had my malpractice while all my bank and everything was in order. The interesting thing about I guess over the past six months is 90%, maybe more of my work has come from referrals from other attorneys. So I feel that I had been building those blocks in the month that I was leaving, letting people know, hey, I’m going to be doing this. So as soon as I said, I’m here, and I’m ready, the work started coming in a lot quicker than I was honestly expecting. I was anticipating to spend those first few months learning, going back and spending time in court maybe watching because I’ve returned to a practice area hadn’t done in five years. And then I was honestly hit with a flood of work. So that was really unexpected from the get go.
Jim Hacking
So this question is more for my curiosity and education. I’m wondering, I’m sure that a big part of listening to our podcast was you were saying to yourself, Man, if these two boobs can do it, I know that I can pull off from running a firm, but what were some of the shifts in your mindset that came about from listening to episodes or of the show in general,
Speaker 4
I think you guys do a really great job of breaking down the basics of what you’re doing. I thought it was going to take me a lot longer to figure out how to function as a solo person and make all of these things work. And I feel like just listening to the various episodes whether it’d be intake, or, you know, the burning of ships was obviously one of my favorites. And there that’s mentioned lot to you guys. But it just it just do it. And I feel like that was the message you guys were giving get out there work hard and stay up late and make it happen.
Tyson Mutrux
For those of you that don’t know, if you’ve not listened to the burn the boats episode, it is one of my favorites. I think it’s episode six. I don’t remember exactly. But I think it’s episode six, but go back and listen to it if you haven’t, but I want to talk about expectations versus reality. So what were your expectations going in? And how is it going now when it comes to reality,
Speaker 4
so I thought I was going to painfully struggle to get clients, I thought, Oh, I’m gonna have like, one client a month, and I’m just gonna mosey along. And then that was not the case. So and I’m excited for that I’m excited to grow fast. And that was the biggest thing that drew me to the guild was, I want to learn from others. And I want to expedite this process, the best I can of getting to where I’m going. So expectation was, again, I’m just gonna be out here figuring this out. And really, it was okay, not only do I need to figure this out, I need to figure out intake, I need to figure out systems and processes for these things, because I’m quickly not going to be able to handle these things on my own. So what has happened in six months, I really wasn’t anticipating more for two years. So that’s been tough, because I’m still completely on my own. I think my goal last week, I hired a VA from weeing have my meeting with them today to figure out that onboarding process. But that’s truly my first help. At this point. It’s all me and I have two little ones. I have a two and a half year old and a 14 month old. So just marblelife lawyering it is running me ragged, but I’m really enjoying it.
Jim Hacking
I’m so excited for you. And so impressed. I just think it’s so great, what you’re doing. Thank you. Let’s talk about your practice area. How did you pick your practice area? How’s it looking? What are the competitors look like? What are you thinking about family law in Baton Rouge?
Speaker 4
Yeah, so I went family law, it just makes sense to me. And I’ve said this to multiple lawyers recently, I wish some other area of the law just clicked in the same way the gears do in my brain when it comes to family. But that’s just where my brain went. And it was like that when I started law school, so I went through their family law clinic there too. And it just as much as there’s drama and whatnot. I do like it, I do enjoy working with people. So as to the family law, there’s an abundance of the work, it’s low hanging fruit. I think the thing that has helped me most in my practice and in life is I was almost raised to be a politician as a child. And I’ve worked my whole life to really maintain relationships. I have a ridiculous Christmas card list. And I work really hard to make good content posts on social media that are personal enough, but not overbearing. So again, my network has really fed into what I’m doing here. So whenever I announced, hey, I’m doing this, you know, it just happened in family law. Everyone needs a family law lawyer. And then as to the estate planning that was never in the plan. There was an attorney who I met many years ago with my first boss and she actually took have the liberty to tell me I passed the bar in a business meeting we were having, and then made me start sobbing because I was like, I’m waiting to find out until I leave. Don’t tell me I’m not prepared for this. And then I met with her upon opening my firm. And she said, What can I do to help? What can I do to help you? I’ve always loved you. Tell me, so she actually, she pulled her estate planning firm. She had, I think, a 30 person firm. She pulled her Google page a year and a half ago, and has just really dwindled down business. And she has said, Let me teach you do you want to do this work, I can funnel this work to you. So the majority of her estate planning work comes from financial advisors. So if that’s a another neat way of I’m not having to spend advertising money I’m not having to. It’s half that’s happening more organically. And honestly, I think that I don’t like that I’m doing so much dabbling, but I think that the Family Law and Estate Planning together make sense. These worlds cross over a lot in the work, I’m doing a lot of the prenups. And then obviously, in the estate planning itself, and then the personal injury, I’m doing like this much of it. Mostly just clients, I already have family personal connections. I’m not taking any kind of crazy liability disputes. I do have partner firms that I work with if work comes in that that’s just too challenging. I’m not trying to be an expert in the personal injury world, but I have spent years in it. And for the most part, I feel confident that I can navigate the majority. So I’m not putting any effort into the marketing personal injury. That’s more just hey, I do this. I’m here if if you know if you need it,
Tyson Mutrux
I’m with Jim, I’m really excited for you. I think this is so so awesome. I would like for you to niche down but I get where you are completely understand. But I’m really curious, what is your day look like?
Speaker 4
Insanity. So my husband, he has a really terrible commute to his job. So I get up with my kids at six in the morning, I wrangle them and they’re at a daycare a good about a 40 minute drive to and from 20 minutes each way. I mostly work from home, I hate working in the office. As long as I can be at home, I am way more productive. So I don’t come into the office and let’s have client meetings. But for the most part, by the time I do my mom life, nine to four is pretty much the day time chunk that I have. And then I do a lot of eight to Midnight’s the biggest problem I’m having right now, because I’m alone. And I think your last question had asked how my market was for what I’m doing. That’s a whole other interesting question. And the majority of family law attorneys, they’re older, like probably 60. Plus, they’ve been solos their entire lives. They don’t have websites, they’re not on Google, I started investing in the Google Local Services ads about three weeks ago. And I’m only one of four attorneys in my city using them. And because they’re so few of us, the cost is relatively reasonable. So my day has changed a lot in the past few weeks. And then I’m probably footing about eight intake calls a day at this point, which I’m sure, as you would know, is just exploding my day because I don’t have help. So I have an answering service. But I also feel that in my practice area, if someone doesn’t talk to them soon, same day, next day, they’re calling the next person. So I’m investing a lot of time right now into this intake, the follow up. And a lot of my true work isn’t happening until eight to midnight at night, which is not sustainable. So I’m really hoping this virtual assistant can help get some of this off my plate.
Jim Hacking
And what’s next because you need two people, if you’re getting eight leads a day. That’s a lot,
Speaker 4
you know, and it’s wild. It’s on my goal the next month to listen to the Gary Falco. It’s your intake podcast series because I’m doing a poor job at converting those leads. And it’s because I don’t have the time. I think I looked at my pipeline and just this week, I think I probably there was probably at least 20,000 in work between Monday through Wednesday that came through intake and I didn’t sign any of those people but I talked to a ton of them but it’s because I only have a short window to talk to them I’m not doing good with the email follow up the call follow up to the extent that I’m able to handle my own right now is Thanks for calling I’m not your lawyer until you sign a contract you know the basic so that’s not good. So yes, my next hire after this I’m very much hope is I think I’m gonna need a paralegal I think I’m more like at least a contract paralegal something because I just think about I did sign three divorces yesterday and everything’s ready, but I haven’t filed the documents. I was just thinking this morning. How amazing would that be to have someone to do these things because I have back to back meetings today. So these are some tough growing pains, but I’m excited. It reminds
Tyson Mutrux
me the good old days, you, uh, you’re, you’re bursting at the seams, right? You’re trying to hold everything together. It’s like you’re holding a bunch of plates on sticks. That’s, I remember those days, I want to talk about this a little bit more, because I almost feel like if I were doing family law, if I were you, I think my first hire would be you’ve got the virtual system that’s starting soon, you’ve got the answering service, I think that my first hire would probably be an attorney. Because you’re with family law stuff, you’re in court all the freakin time. And the earlier you can kind of set this thing up so that you’re not that center piece that center spoke, I think the better for you. And you can kind of start delegating that work to other attorneys because like family law is just so cord heavy. What are your thoughts on hiring an attorney as your first hire as opposed to like a paralegal or like a, an assistant,
Speaker 4
I’m not opposed. But I’ve got to get my revenue. Well, at this point, because I’m not capturing a lot of these referrals coming in, I’m still not making great money. So I’m hoping I, the wing assistant that I hired was actually someone that I’m hoping to completely take over my phones. I don’t know how this is gonna work we’ll see it was it was someone who’s had a couple of years of us experience with sales calls. So they were able and they’re not I didn’t, they had another package that wasn’t listed on their website for this option. So I’m really hoping this person can start doing some basic intake for me and a lot of my admin that is not case related to then let me see where the cards fall on what’s needed next, but I don’t think an attorney is a bad idea. I’ve just got to get the revenue up before I’m able to do that.
Becca Eberhart
The Guild is maximum lawyers community of lawyer entrepreneurs who are taking their businesses and lives to the next level. As a guild member, you will build relationships be held accountable, and learn strategies specifically designed to get you unstuck and accelerate your plan for growth. Numbers are also granted exclusive access to masterminds hosted around the country four times per year. And in 2023, we’ve added a half day workshop to each mastermind, where you’ll learn new skills while working on improving systems and aspects of your personal firm. Then take the hot seat on day two and work through your most pressing challenge. It’s all inside the guild to learn more visit Max law guild.com.
Jim Hacking
You’re listening to the maximum lawyer podcast Our guest today is Ms. Deanna Johnson, she’s been out on her own for just five months, she joined the Guild, and we’re happy to have her. Let’s talk about that point you just raised about getting that revenue up. I’m wondering, is there a way that we could tell our new signups? Hey, it’s gonna take us three weeks, four weeks to get your divorce on file, or we’ll get working on your answer to your divorce or whatever. I’m wondering if we can elongate the expected time for you to perform, and to just really focus on signing up a bunch of cases fast, and then use that cash to hire someone because remember, you don’t have to have the whole salary for them. You don’t have to have a year’s worth of salary, you just have to have enough to pay him two weeks and four weeks from now.
Speaker 4
And I think that’s possible. I think, for me personally, I have way I think my expectations of myself and the way I’m practicing are too high. And I had a self conversation with myself yesterday about this and that I had a client come in yesterday and she said, I’m a second attorney. And she said I just want you to know, it’s phenomenal that you always you know, get back to me same day, she said my lawyer before me, I was lucky if I got a response within a week. And that’s great. But I also then questioned myself, Is it really necessary for me to be responding to my clients the exact same day because that’s where a lot of my time is going, I want to be able to do that for them. But I have to wonder if it would be best for my business. If I take a slight pause, get some other things situated and then get back to that, that kind of attention that I want to give
Tyson Mutrux
them. I’m gonna go back to the niching down stuff, how much of what you’re doing with one of these practice areas is robbing what you’re doing in the other practice areas.
Speaker 4
So the estate planning, I don’t think it’s too bad right now. But because of the way that the work is coming in the estate planning and I feel like I’m taking it really slowly in chunks and it’s mostly just work that’s being fed to me. So I’m not really going out of my way and I’m really just trying to focus on the basics just will packages powers of attorney, these really easy things that are really excellent flat fees, you know, to meetings, good money done. The family is really what’s just sucking the life out of me. And I knew this going into this practice And I hope that honestly, five years from now, I really hope to have at least a family attorney and at least a state planning attorney it probably more like do family attorneys and maybe an estate attorney and me just working on the work I want to work on and visionary like you guys a lot in your firms. But I am definitely stretched thin. I am trying to learn to practice areas that I’m not excellent at. And I do not like doing for work. So that’s tough. That’s tough. Yes. So I don’t know. I don’t know about what, what’s what’s being robbed here. I think you’re doing great.
Jim Hacking
Let me ask you this question. Where are you right? To leave when you did and go out on your own when you did?
Speaker 4
Yes, yes. 1,000,000%, for many reasons, one that like, I wasn’t going to gain anything more by staying. I think, in month five, I made more on my own than I did this month six. So five and six, I definitely made more in five and six than I did in last month of working with my prior job. Also the company, that company has just taken a total nosedive, which is just wild after years of just really outstanding benefits and profit sharing and all these things and I left and that they those things were gone. And those were a big part of the incentives of being there. So that was just a coincidence. But But yes, I’m glad I made the move.
Tyson Mutrux
Alright, so this question is more for the listener. Right. So people that are thinking about going out on their own. This is not about regrets or anything like that. Okay. But looking back, is there anything you would have done differently?
Speaker 4
Honestly, no, I think that I needed that litigation experience. And I think, you know, obviously, I think family law attorneys get a bad rap, of being, you know, bottom tier attorneys, whatever it may be. But those years of litigation experience are going to serve me very well. I have family law friends have been practicing 10 years, and they’ve done five depositions in their entire practice. I think in my three years, I probably did three to 500. So it’s just the actual motion practice, true litigation, discovery, just I really see in the work that I’m doing with other attorneys, my work product compared to theirs because of that litigation experience. So I’m thankful that I have it.
Tyson Mutrux
Yeah. I don’t want you to ever have that thought or anyone that does fame law that thought that fame law attorneys are like the bottom feeders, because there is there are hardly any other niches that you got to know estate planning. You’ve got to know tax law, you got to know the family law. You got to know Cassidy, in some instances, you got to know injury, you’ve got to know Yeah, yeah, you’re gonna real estate, like some of the best attorneys I know, are family law attorneys, because they’ve got to know all of those different areas. So no one should be thinking that because that is that couldn’t be further from the truth.
Speaker 4
I agree. I just I, I guess from my circle of people in my life who are not they’re like, Oh, my God, no, I swear we do real things. Definitely,
Jim Hacking
my friend genre bonus, when he was an associate circuit judge, he had the choice to continue another two year stint and family law. And now he’s a full circuit judge. He deals with plaintiffs lawyers, defense lawyers, criminal defense lawyers, he says family lawyers are the most prepared the best to deal with the most collaborative, usually, unless they’re completely combative, which is sort of two different things. But yeah, for sure. So I just want to say I think you’re doing all the right things. I think your mindset is right. I’m just really proud of you. Thank you, I think that what you’re doing is extra hard, because you’re a mom, not that that’s fair. But I just think that you’re juggling a lot and you’re just doing a great, great job. And I give you a total a plus.
Speaker 4
I appreciate that. I I know just all I keep telling myself is just keep moving forward. I know that you know I’m a lot of things are not being done to the quality that I want. But I know that we’re pushing to get to better goals. So the same day this week, I hired the VA also hired a marketing company. So we’re moving there’s only up from here.
Tyson Mutrux
All right, yeah. And we do need to wrap things up because we are over time before I do. I want to remind everyone to join us in the big Facebook groups, just search maximum lawyer and Facebook and you will be able to find us if you want a more high level conversation. Join us in the guild go to max law guild.com. And if you have referrals, something we don’t talk about a lot is go to maximum lawyer referrals. And you can if you if you’re looking for an attorney or if you want to refer a case to someone got a maximum your referrals and you can share your cases there. And while you’re listening to the rest of this episode, if you don’t mind leaving us a five star review. We would appreciate it because it helps spread the love and help spread the knowledge to other attorneys that may need it. Jimmy What’s your hack of the week
Jim Hacking
a longtime listeners in the Space know that I love the I love marketing podcast. And I spend most of my time talking about Dean Jackson. But the other member of that duo is Joe Polish. Joe Polish has a new book out just came out on Tuesday, I started it on the treadmill, it’s excellent. It’s called What’s in it for them. And it all talks about his mindset when trying to build rapport with other people, and how to connect with other people and how important connections are Deana talked about it at the top of the show about how important her connections were. It also has one of the best breakdowns I’ve ever seen of how to like, meet people you want to meet and how to connect with him when you actually do meet. It’s almost like how to guide on how to do that. And Joe also has a real soft spot in his heart for addicts. And part of what he’s doing with his mission in life. And part of the proceeds of the book go towards trying to help people in recovery. And so it’s a win win. If you get the book I have recommended I’m about halfway through, it’s great.
Tyson Mutrux
I’m gonna check it out. Because if I know anything about Joe polishes that he whenever he does something, he usually does it with excellence. So he’s really puts his all into and if there’s anybody else on this earth that knows how to make connections to people you want to meet. It’s Joe Polish. So that’s a great one. So I’m gonna check that out. What’s the name of it again?
Jim Hacking
What’s in it for them? Instead of what’s in it? For me? It’s what’s in it for them.
Tyson Mutrux
Love it. Very good. All right, Deanna, what is your tip or hack of the week?
Speaker 4
So goes back to what I said earlier about connections, I think it’s so easy to say, I don’t know how to get clients, I don’t know how to meet people. And I really always tell everyone, I mean, go do something you enjoy. And on top of that, maybe define your target audience, and really figure out where those people are, what they’re doing, go join that Country Club, go join that association that has a great following of women of this age group XYZ, just get out there and do something and it really does pay off. Even if it’s not immediately passing out your card and getting your name out there, it comes back to you.
Tyson Mutrux
Great advice. Love it. For me, I’ve been doing a lot of reels and tiktoks. And most although most of them are being edited by someone else that every once awhile, I’ll be shooting my own. And there’s an editor that I really, really like I have the paid version, it’s called in shot. And it’s a it’s an iPhone app, you can probably get it on Android or whatever. But of all the editing apps I’ve ever used. This is by far the easiest. And it allows you to like picture and picture and like just with like just a few touches. It’s fairly intuitive, as opposed to many of the other interfaces are kind of clunky and hard to use. This one’s pretty easy, but in shot, I think like the lifetime subscription for it is like 60 bucks or something that’s not too bad. So I recommend Deanna thank you so much for coming on. Really appreciate you sharing your story. And I’m with Jim, like you’re doing awesome work. So keep up the great work. You’re kicking butt. Thanks, Deanna. Appreciate it.
Speaker 1
Thanks for listening to the maximum lawyer but to stay in contact with your host and to access more content, go to maximum lawyer.com. Have a great week and catch you next time.
