How Can Lawyers Stand Out in a Crowded Market with Dave Dee

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Are you a lawyer who is struggling with marketing their business or themselves? In this episode, Jim and Tyson welcome guest Dave Dee, a professional magician turned marketing and sales expert. He provides some advice on how lawyers can become better salespeople and improve their marketing strategies.

Dave talks about the importance of knowing how to be a master salesperson just as much as knowing your craft. Being good at what you do is not a competitive advantage until the client is working with you. This means you need to reel the client in with marketing in order to get them on board and actually begin using your skills in law. Dave suggests lawyers really take the time to learn about effective marketing strategies to get clients and make money.

Jim, Tyson and Dave discuss the common mistakes lawyers make when it comes to marketing themselves. One mistake is simply doing generic marketing that everyone else in the industry is doing. A lot of lawyers will have the same Facebook ads with the same slogan, fonts and messaging. Dave says that this similar marketing among lawyers makes them look like a commodity. What this does is make the public see all lawyers as operating the same which means they will go with the lawyer charging less money for services. Another issue Dave talks about is not attracting the right prospects. It is important as a lawyer to not focus on getting the most leads but getting the most qualified leads. Dave also notes that lawyers are not only selling their services but themselves, which is why public speaking is crucial to becoming successful in the legal field.

Dave talks through how to deliver a great presentation. It is important to not over deliver information, which is what a lot of people (not just lawyers) do when speaking to an audience and potential clients. This does a few things. Over delivering can cause an audience to feel overwhelmed with information because there is a lot to process and so much jargon. It can also cause audiences to believe they can take on the task themselves since they have all the information. As a lawyer, you want to give enough information to where someone understands what you do and will come to you to figure out the rest. 

Having a Call to Action at the end of a presentation is really what gets people to decide if they want to reach out to you. It is an important piece of a presentation and can really make or break the outcome. A Call to Action can be a few things. It can be telling the audience to call and set up an appointment, directing people to fill out a form, downloading your report on what you do as a lawyer and collecting the audience’s contact information to send out a mass email.

Storytelling is another important aspect of presenting to potential clients. A great way to do this is weave in real stories. As lawyers, there are a million and one stories for almost every scenario due to the different types of cases and people that walk in the door. Wherever there is a connection between a case and a concept or theme in a presentation, tell that story. This will keep people engaged and bring a sense of reality into an otherwise “boring” legal presentation. 

Take a listen to learn more about effective marketing!

Jim's Hack: Read Dan Kennedy's book, “The No BS Ruthless Management of People and Profits”, which provides those who are business owners and leaders with tips on not being so nice and soft.

Dave’s Tip: Take the Take Charge of Your Life program by Jim Rohn, which really changed Dave’s perspective on life.

Tyson's Tip: Use Cloud Prompter, which is a teleprompter and Mac app for making videos.

Episode Highlights:

  • 4:09 The importance of being a master marketer and salesperson
  • 9:35 Common mistakes lawyers make in their marketing
  • 15:34 Three pieces of information in a presentation
  • 24:45 The importance of having a Call to Action discussion
  • 30:31 The significance of storytelling in sales and marketing

Resources:

Transcripts: How Can Lawyers Stand Out in a Crowded Market with Dave Dee

Dave Dee (00:02.666)
for this. Oh, okay. I was like, Oh, I see actual recording is a higher quality. Got it. Got it. Okay, perfect.

Tyson (00:03.771)
Yeah, I think that's why.

Jimbo (00:12.146)
Awesome, great. We'll get started. Welcome back to the Maximal Lawyer Podcast. I'm Jim Hacking.

Tyson (00:19.627)
And I'm Tyson Mutrix. What's up, Jimmy?

Jimbo (00:22.838)
Tyson, I'm so excited for our guest today. I've been thinking about this for months. I was sort of surprised when he agreed to come on the show. So I'm very happy to introduce him. So for a little bit of backstory, the Maximum Lawyer podcast began eight years ago, a little bit after a info summit that GKIC held in St. Louis, Missouri. Dave D was there and he is our guest today. Dave, welcome to the show.

Dave Dee (00:48.166)
Hey, thank you guys for having me. I'm really honored and I appreciate it.

Tyson (00:52.787)
So Dave, I'm hoping that most of our listeners know who you are, but will you… I would really… I think it would be helpful for people if they heard your journey and a little bit about your story and how you became who you are. Like your presentation at GKIC was my favorite and I'll ask you some questions about that a little bit, but it was kind of really cool. But yeah, will you talk about your journey and your story?

Dave Dee (01:09.43)
Thank you.

Dave Dee (01:16.182)
Sure, since we don't have a lot of time, I won't tell the entire story. We'll just start when I was eight years old and then we'll move up from there going every year from there forward. No, but actually my journey did start when I was eight years old because like a lot of boys and some girls, but mostly boys at that time, my grandmother gave me a little magic set and I fell in love with magic and I knew when I was about eight, nine, 10 that I wanted to grow up and be a professional magician.

And my parents thought that was kind of cute when I was eight. But when I was 18, they didn't think it was so cute anymore. Right? And so I got a lot of, you know, that's not practical. You need to get a real job. You need to work for a company, get the gold watch, all that kind of stuff. But I had this passion, real passion, burning passion to be an entertainer.

I took a very traditional route. I went to UMass Amherst, graduated with a degree in communication, got a job in radio advertising sales. I was probably, it's funny because I teach sales training now and a lot to lawyers, both one to one and one to many, which we can talk about. And I was probably the worst radio advertising salesperson on the planet. I mean, it was bad. My training consisted of the sales manager literally slapping me on the back and saying, go out there and get them killer.

I mean, really, that was it. And I was never really into it because I still had this passion. And so I eventually moved out of my hometown from Springfield, Mass to Atlanta and took a job as a demonstrator at a executive magic store. So these were not like the typical magic stores you're thinking of, these were in luxury hotels. And basically what my job was to sell overpriced magic tricks to unsuspecting conventionaires.

But the reason that this is important is that it really got me up and learning how to sell one to many, how to gather a crowd, learn a script, do a demonstration and start selling. And I quickly became the number one salesperson in the company. And but I still wasn't living my passion. So I had to make a decision at one point.

Dave Dee (03:38.414)
what was I gonna do? Was I gonna actually live out my dream or was I just gonna keep doing this and working for somebody else? And so that decision was made for me because I was fired from that job. The owner discovered I had entrepreneurial tendencies and so, but now I didn't have a gig, right? And I was only doing about three shows a month and I…

These weren't big David Copperfield like productions. These were small shows, nowhere near enough to make money. And then I went to an event and I saw a guy by the name of Dan Kennedy speak and he's the K in GKIC that you mentioned earlier. And he said something which really had a profound effect on me and it was this. And this really applies to any business, right? And here's what it was.

that it's more important to be a master marketer and a master salesperson than it is to be a master of your craft. Now, he wasn't saying that you shouldn't be good at what you do, but being good at what you do is not a competitive advantage until the client is working with you. And so that really changed my mind shift from, hey, I just got to get really good because we're all taught, right? In law school,

We're not going over how to run a business. We're taught how to be good lawyers and so I Really focused in on the marketing and I invested in courses and I went to trainings and spent money. I really didn't have But and I tried a lot of different things as one of my favorite speakers The late great Jim Rohn said and Tony Robbins is often given credit for this, but it's actually Jim Rohn's I took massive action

And most of the stuff that I did didn't work and most of the marketing that I did wasn't very good But I just kept doing it and I kept doing a lot of it And within 90 days I went from doing three shows a month to averaging 25 shows a month So from three to 25, so if everyone who's watching this can do that math, that's over an 800 increase So I want you to imagine that happened in your in your law practice

Dave Dee (05:53.442)
And so everything changed for me. My fourth month I did 57 shows. And so my life completely changed. Everything, I mean, within a year I paid off $80,000 in debt I had accumulated. I bought a new house, I bought a new car. I was making six figures as a magician back in the 90s. Now, that may not be impressive to folks, but there's not a lot of magicians who are doing six figures.

And then I started getting invited to speak on stages to tell my story like I'm telling it now. And what happened as a result of that smart business owners, including my very first client, who was an attorney by the way, came up to me and said, can you help me with my practice? Because this and I say that they're smart because they understood that marketing is marketing and marketing is selling is selling is selling.

I was selling a professional service just like an attorney sells a professional service. Mine just happened to be entertainment. I needed to attract leads. I needed to have a meeting and close the sale. I had to perform the service. I needed to get referrals. It was just a different type of service business. And so that's what actually got me going and started working with clients in diverse businesses, mostly in the service business.

a ton of attorneys who I actually really, really enjoy working with. I think they're fantastic and they provide such a great service and no one has really taught them the marketing piece of this or the selling piece of it and or they're teaching really outdated methodologies which nobody likes to use. So you know, high pressure closing and manipulative stuff when none of that is necessary. And so that's

That's really what got me here. Then I started speaking on stages and then I learned that, hey, you gotta sell something on these stages when you're invited to these entrepreneurial conferences. The first time I did it, I bombed, right? Because I was an entertainer, so I thought, this is gonna be easy, I'm on stage all of the time. And I quickly learned that there was a big difference between making an audience laugh, getting them to clap, getting a standing ovation, and getting them to take out their credit card.

Dave Dee (08:16.546)
And so I did the same process as I did as a magician. I dove in, I invested money, I went to courses, I studied, I studied, I studied, and I got really good at speaking to sell. And so there's two things now that I teach professional services, folks. Number one is how to get up in front of a group, whether that's a group on a webinar online or whether it's in person at a seminar or a dinner.

presentation or something like that and speak, deliver good information, but then get the qualified prospects to schedule appointments. Then the second piece of that is, okay, we've got the appointment. Now how do we actually close that sale so the prospect becomes a client. And that's what leads us here today.

Jimbo (09:06.282)
I feel really lucky to have heard even more detail of your story. For those of you who have the opportunity, Dave, it's a very dramatic story when Dave went to that first event with Ann Kennedy, because he basically had no money to even go to the event. So it's remarkable that a lesson for all of us is the need to invest in yourself and to keep, you know…

improving and learning and so that was great. So I appreciate that Dave. So my question for you is, you have worked with a lot of lawyers. Talk to us about traditional lawyer advertising and what most lawyers are getting wrong in their marketing.

Dave Dee (09:45.81)
Well, it's not just lawyers by the way, but since this is a podcast for lawyers, it's really every, anyone who sells a professional service. And the biggest problem is that they look in their marketing is the same as everyone else's marketing. So I can get a, see an ad for a lawyer online on Facebook and it will be basically the same as someone.

Another lawyer I can literally take out the logo change the name and everything's the same So if they're doing an estate planning seminar It looks exactly the same the postcard that I get in the mail looks exactly the same Everything looks the same and the problem with that is and it's a big problem It's becoming a bigger problem is that puts the attorney in the position of being a commodity and now we know

that that's not true. We know just like there are better surgeons, there are better attorneys than other attorneys. But if everybody looks exactly the same and is doing what everyone else in the industry is doing, then the public, the prospect, if everyone looks the same, why wouldn't they think that an attorney is a commodity? And when you become a commodity, the problem is people base their decision on what?

They base their decision on price, the lowest price, right? And it's getting worse for attorneys with all of the online tools and it's going to get worse with AI. So, because they're going to just be able to go and do the stuff themselves. Now, so that's, that's one of the major problems. The other major problem is not attracting the right prospects. So everyone is thinking, well, how many leads can I get?

Right? What can I do to get the most leads? Where I take the opposite approach, I rather have less leads, but have them be really good leads, really qualified leads. Cause there's going to be always a group of people who don't want to do it themselves, right? They want to work with someone who is they, their perception is that they're the ACE, the authority, the celebrity, the expert, right? And so here is a gigantic tip for everyone.

Dave Dee (12:07.998)
You're not selling your services. You're really selling yourself. Because the more affluent somebody is, and the more sophisticated they are, they're more looking for the who, they're buying the who, not just the how, not just the end result. And so that's why I think it is imperative

regardless of what your practice area is that you are doing some form of public speaking Whether that's online or whether that's in person or a combination of both Because that is something that cannot be duplicated Right, because if you do it right and you structure your presentation correctly You're you're selling not just oh I do estate plans

Right? Not, I can just put together a trust for you or whatever it is that you're offering, but rather that you're selling yourself. You're telling your origin story. So if you notice, we started out with my origin story. Now I shorten it and I tighten it, but all attorneys need an origin story. As opposed to, and by the way, once you develop your origin story, that's what you want to have on your about page.

Right? As opposed to what every other lawyer has on their about page that who are using templates that every other lawyer is using. Right? And so when you do that and when you get out in front of people and you're speaking, number one, that formula being the ace, the authority, the celebrity and expert. Well, who gets in front of groups of people and speaks? Authorities, celebrities and experts. That's what they do. Right? So you're automatically put in that category.

Now if you have a book and you speak, now you're in a different ballgame than other attorneys. And so you're going to book appointments and if your presentation is structured correctly and I'm happy to go over how to quickly structure a presentation if that's what you want to do, now you're selling you, people think that you're perceived as the go-to attorney as opposed to just another attorney.

Dave Dee (14:30.458)
selling the same thing as the attorney down the street from them.

Tyson (14:34.639)
So I do want to ask you about the structure of your presentation a little bit, because I think I've seen something on You Do That Before and it's really, really good. So I was scrambling to find my notes from that. I've got books and books and notes, but I'm scrambling to try to find my notes. And so you presented on the ultimate product creation and launch machine. And what I thought was really interesting about it, other than the content, was you moved in with the crowd. You weren't up on the stage. You were moving around.

Dave Dee (14:47.518)
Wow, that's awesome.

Tyson (15:03.899)
but people were wanting to take pictures of your slides so, like so much, but you kept moving so quickly and you were giving so much value. And I was like trying to scramble to take notes and I wanted to take pictures so badly, but you were like standing like right next to me and Jim. So I was like, I didn't want to pull my phone out, but I promise I'm gonna connect the dots in a second. But I have seen where a lot of these estate planning attorneys, they're doing these presentations and they seem to be pretty effective.

Dave Dee (15:17.91)
the

Tyson (15:31.627)
But there's a point where they've got to ask for the credit card, right? They've got to ask for that, that the cell. So is there, is there something to the strategy of you're providing just so much value very, very quickly, um, and, and going, and then finally you make the pitch, is there something to that? Is there a strategy to that whole thing? Um, because I, I'm really curious. I've always wondered that question since I've seen that presentation. So what's the strategy behind it?

Dave Dee (15:48.959)
Yeah.

Dave Dee (15:54.194)
Yeah. Yeah, that is a great question. And this is going to be eye opening for you because you were there. Here's here is the key you deliver value, but not too much value. And I actually didn't deliver that much value in the presentation. So here is the key and this is the mistake.

that almost everyone who speaks to cell, and that's what we're doing, right? We're getting up there to speak to cell, whether it's on a webinar, on stage, or online, doesn't make any difference, is over delivering information. So when you over deliver information, and I'm gonna give you the exact structure of how to do this, right? Because that's the question that you asked. And then maybe we can do another part where we can really dive more into it. But…

When you deliver too much information, you think that you're giving value to your audience. But some bad things happen when you do that. The first bad thing that happens is that you overwhelm your audience, especially, and we use estate planning as an example, when you get into the nitty gritty details, which lawyers like to do because you guys, that's what you guys like, right? You like the detail, you're detail oriented.

the audience, first of all, more than likely is gonna get bored. And if they get bored, they're not paying attention. Even if they're sitting there, they're not mentally paying attention. The second thing is, if you overwhelm them with information, they get confused and a confused mind does not take action at the end. But the other really bad thing that you're actually doing a disservice to your audience is when you…

uh, deliver too much information, they believe falsely that they can get the result themselves. Oh, I've got all the information I need. I can go to rocket lawyer and just get everything done myself. And we all know that working with an attorney is not the same as going to rocket lawyer. Right. But if you give me all the information that I need, you leave me with that false belief that I can go do it myself.

Dave Dee (18:18.866)
So here is the structure. You want to deliver, and if people haven't been taking notes, you wanna take this and start taking notes, you wanna deliver, and this is all I did during that presentation, three pieces of information. The magic number is three. Why three? Because people can remember three. They can remember three things. So the question you wanna ask yourself is, when you're just…

Tyson (18:43.643)
By the way, I'm going to interrupt you, Dave. I've got three bullet points. You had three main topics, so I can verify what your thing is accurate. Yes.

Dave Dee (18:52.694)
Right. Yep. And so by delivering three, right. Your audience can process three. They can remember three. So the question that you want to ask yourself when you're creating your presentation is what are. If I can only tell this audience three things that they, that they need to know. And here's the key that they need to know that will create the desire inside them.

to take the next step.

Right. So what are the three things that my audience needs to know that will create the desire in them to take the next step? So in most cases with an attorney that again will use estate planning doing an estate planning seminar is for them to go to the back of the room and schedule an appointment. Right. Or doing a webinar, click the button to go to the online calendar to schedule the appointment. So.

The entire presentation is designed for one purpose and one purpose only. It is to create the desire inside of your audience to take the action at the end that you want them to take. And so you want to deliver three pieces of good information. And here's the key. I'll give you two. There's different ways to do it, but here's two. Tell them what to do, not how to do it.

By the way, that's great information because most people don't know what to do. Also tell them why it's important. So when you introduce the topic, just don't dive into it. Right. So for example, let's say that we're doing a presentation and we know that one of the common misconceptions is that a will, if I have a will, I'm all set. Right. And so you want to talk about why.

Dave Dee (20:50.47)
A will is not enough, right? That's not in the state plan, right? A will is just a tiny piece of it, but you need to explain to the audience, you need to sell them on what you're about to tell them is why it's so important. Okay. So you start off by introducing your topic, one of the three topics. You then sell them on why this is so important. Okay. And then.

You either tell them what to do, not how to do it, or you give them useful but incomplete information.

Useful but incomplete So there was I'm just making this up. So there are seven parts to a proper estate plan Now we don't have time to go over all seven today, but let me go over three Right, well, what do I want to know I want to know what the other four are

And so I'm giving useful but incomplete information. I'm telling them what to do, not how to do it. I'm selling them on why this is so important. So for example, if I was to, let's say I was selling an estate plan, right? And I, well, one other, I'm gonna give you one other big tip in a second because this is a really important one. Let's say I'm talking about estate plans. Well, and I wanna sell them on why it's important. Well, one of the easiest ways for me to do that is to go to all the celebrities that did not have an estate plan.

Right. And talk about those stories. Hey, here's what happened when, uh, I can't remember off the top of my head. In fact, I just helped somebody create a presentation. So I should know. Aretha Franklin. Exactly. Look at what happened. Didn't have an estate plan. And then you talk about, and then, then you can go into what a probate is and so on and so forth, right? So that is a key, but here is the most important.

Jimbo (22:28.985)
Aretha Franklin.

Dave Dee (22:46.968)
or an important piece of this. It's remember what you're selling.

Your presentation is not designed to sell them on putting together an estate plan. Your presentation is designed to get them to schedule an appointment.

Dave Dee (23:07.986)
So what a lot of attorneys do is they talk about, well, when you, after you work with me, right, all this great stuff is going to happen. Well, I'm not there yet. Right. You, I just want to know that I should be talking to you, whether you charge for the consultation or whether you do it for free. That's the thing that you're selling. So your presentation, yes, you do need to future pace how things will be. And future pacing is in two ways.

One is how the negative aspect of what will happen if you don't take care of this, the positive aspects of pain and pleasure, right? We know those are motivating forces. So yeah, we do need to do that, but the actual presentation is designed to get the audience again, to create that internal desire, that internal pressure that says, I need to do this now. I need to meet with Jim now. And by the way, also,

Disqualify people who you don't want to meet with now. We're getting into the some Deep stuff here, but I want to qualify people. I just don't want people on my calendar. I want people who Are qualified who I can really help And who are ready to do business with me I've got somebody in the financial. I work with a lot of financial advisors as well and He his financial he says when he does appointments, he doesn't want people that are info hogs

meaning people are just coming in to get free financial advice. In your case, it would be free legal advice. So we want to have people that are ready to take action, who we're meeting with, because then closing the sale actually becomes easier.

Jimbo (24:50.594)
dying over here because I'm doing everything wrong, right? So I have, yeah, I have, I was rubbing my head.

Dave Dee (24:54.854)
Yeah, I saw you rubbing your head there. I didn't know if it was like, oh my God, why did we have this guy on the podcast? Oh my God. We're not going to even be able to use this episode.

Jimbo (25:02.042)
No, quite the opposite. So Dave, I'm an immigration lawyer. I have a YouTube call-in show three or four days a week for an hour where people can call and ask me any question that they want for free. And it attracts probably some people that, definitely we get cases out of it. It's our best converting thing, but it's a total soft sell. It's just a call-in show. There's no presentation. There's no real call to action other than to leave me a five-star review. So.

And I get like 250 people watching live while we do the show, and by the next day, there's like 3,000 replays. So I have an audience now, and I probably need to start transitioning into more of this kind of an approach. I still have to do the calls, I think, but I think I'm probably doing some things wrong.

Dave Dee (25:49.018)
Yeah, so the first thing is not having a call to action at the end. So you don't have to make it… So my whole structure and so there's two pieces of doing a presentation, right? One is the actual presentation and the actual is how you deliver the presentation. So I'm not one of these guys and we've all seen these guys who… You know, they come out on the stage and, Hey, who wants to make more money? You know, that guy and…

Then he's standing on the chair in the back of the room and all of that. Right. Well, we want to maintain our, especially as an attorney, you want to maintain your professionalism. So you don't, and I don't, you do a hard close or you don't need to do a hard close. If you do everything right, as I kept mentioning, you've created the desire in the audience to want to do this. Now you do need to make an offer. Right. And that's a whole other conversation. What is an offer?

But an offer by the way is not just a consultation. That's a piece of an offer. But you don't have to do the high pressure stuff nor should you, because you don't want to come across as a snake oil salesman. You want to come across as a high powered attorney who cares, right? A great attorney who cares. And if I believe that you're a great attorney and that you care about me and you've just done something where

I need your help. Who am I gonna call? I'm gonna call you and So yeah, one of the things I would do Jim is I would absolutely have a standard call to action at the end whether that is to Call and set an appointment Whether it is to go fill out a form whether it's to download my report You know the seven the seven biggest misconceptions about

immigration, becoming a citizen. The seven biggest misconceptions about becoming a citizen. Okay, that'd be a great report for you to offer. Then, so this is how I would do it if I were you, all right? I would probably have that call to action at the end as opposed to, hey, if you've got a problem, schedule time with me. I would offer something else for free, but where you're collecting their contact information. Because imagine if out of that 3000,

Dave Dee (28:15.886)
10% of those requested the information. Well now you've got 300 people on your mailing list, on your email list. And then to those people, what I would do is then I would do at least once a month a live webinar where the entire presentation was designed to get them to book an appointment. And if you did that, you would probably double your results.

Tyson (28:46.227)
All right, so Dave, I'm just going to take a quick time out. I know we're at time. Can we go a little bit longer? Is that OK?

Dave Dee (28:53.644)
Sure, absolutely. I actually didn't know how long this was, so I blocked off an hour and I don't know if we want to go that long, but yeah, I'm happy to go as long as you want.

Tyson (29:02.412)
Jim, are you good on time?

Jimbo (29:06.898)
I can move what I have. Yeah, let's go till 45.

Tyson (29:08.743)
Are you sure?

Okay, okay.

Dave Dee (29:11.996)
Okay.

Tyson (29:15.207)
So Dave, I've got a question about short form because there's a lot of like TikTok and Instagram. And it's, I mean, that's what I've been focusing quite a bit on is short form. So you don't have a lot of time, like a lot of the stuff we've got to keep under 60 seconds. So how do we apply that to the short form videos?

Dave Dee (29:31.586)
Yeah. So it's tougher in the short form videos. And so again, it really goes back to the give them useful, but incomplete, right. And tell them what to do, not how to do it. The other thing, uh, an easy way to do this is write down. Number one, the biggest misconceptions that somebody has about whatever area of law you're practicing. Okay. So whatever the biggest misconceptions are.

So example, we do in the estate plan, we talked about the will, right? A will is enough. Well, a will is not enough. And here's why a will is not enough. And so you just come up with a whole list. So let's say you came up with 10 misconceptions. Well, then you have 10 different videos. The other way to do this is to reframe objections that your prospects would have as to why not to work with you as questions. So I often get this question.

Right. And then, so you just reframe, it's really an objection. So, and if you listed all of the objections that you get on a regular basis, right. Then you can, then you can do that as well. Um, but with the shorter form videos, those are really designed to keep you in front of people. And hopefully that there is somewhere that if they looked you up, so just like the advice I gave to Jim, if they looked you up, there'd be something that they could request.

so you get their contact information. And so that happens a lot. So I'll do short videos on clips on Facebook and people will just after seeing them for a while though, what's this Dave D guy, daved.com, they go to daved.com, then if you go there, you'll see that there's something for you to request information. You're opting in for a little video, right?

And so that's how you would do that. But it's tough in 60 seconds to, you know, follow the entire presentation structure. But that thing about the myths is a really good one. Uh, a really good one because it also gives people the feeling of aha. And it sets you up. They get that emotional feeling of like, Oh, I just learned something. And that cool feeling of, wow, I just learned something that knew that I didn't know.

Dave Dee (31:54.258)
It's a really good feeling and they attribute that to you. So that's a really nice strategy.

Jimbo (32:01.686)
Dave, one of your superpowers, I think, is telling stories and stories with a point and a cliffhanger. And we sort of reconnected recently on Facebook because you were doing these stories about your past and your time at GKIC and before. And every one of them was like, wait till tomorrow to hear the next thing. I mean, it was almost just like out of a soap opera or a serial from the old days. Can you talk a little bit about storytelling?

Dave Dee (32:09.727)
Yeah.

Dave Dee (32:17.299)
Yeah.

Dave Dee (32:27.19)
Sure, storytelling and which was actually leads to the next big tip. In this again, anything that we've talked about if anyone applies it We could it sounds so cliche, but it really could double your business really is If you should be doing at least a weekly email to your list At least a weekly email now. I do a daily email

And people would say, well, I wouldn't want to get your emails every day. Well, um, it, you wouldn't if they're written in a very boring way, but if they're written like the way you're talking about and then there's a story form and there's a cliffhanger and yet people do want to read those type of emails and so yeah, so storytelling is one of the most important things in any type of selling, uh, that, that you're doing. So you, in your one to many presentations, you want to weave in.

stories and because as Ever since we were little kids when someone say hey, your mom and dad told us a story. Hey, let's read a story I remember lying in bed with my kids Every night reading a story to them. So we have it built into our psyche that hey let me tell you a story people lean in and so The the idea is and that's a that's a really a big topic

to talk about in just a few seconds, but the idea is if you're telling a story, if it's a story about yourself.

Those are good stories, but it really needs to be related to the audience. So if you go back to my core story, then I just told a little piece of it because we didn't have a lot of time and I'm not selling anything here, right? Now if I was selling stuff, there'd be a lot more to it. All right. Okay, let's dissect that a little bit because this will be really cool for everybody. But so the first thing is if you notice when I told my core story, I tied it back.

Dave Dee (34:32.306)
to so it related to the attorneys. If you remember I said they were smart business owners because they realized that marketing is marketing is marketing, selling is selling is selling, and that I was selling a professional service just like they were selling. Right, I needed to generate leads, I needed to close the sale, I needed to deliver the service because when I tell my core story, if I don't have that piece in there, there's an audience full of attorneys.

They're like, this guy was a freaking magician. What does this have to do with me? But by adding in, by telling us the story and saying, well, smart attorneys started asking me for my help because they understood. Now, by the way, notice I told that in a story. I overcame a big objection, which is, well, what can this guy teach me? He used to be a magician.

But I also set it up that if you're smart, you're gonna ask me for my help.

Right, so.

Jimbo (35:34.194)
Now, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, this is like magic. Like you're doing a magic trick, and now you did a magic trick at the start of the show, and now we're seeing it on the back end. You're explaining us sort of the magic of what you did when you started the podcast.

Dave Dee (35:38.758)
Uh-huh. Yep.

Dave Dee (35:47.87)
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it. This is the hidden stuff. So I actually have a workshop where we go over all of this hidden stuff that you can use one to one or one to many, because there's one thing about putting together a slide deck to do a presentation, but then you've got this stuff. The other thing that I did is, and so the point is, in telling the story,

You want to answer it's a great place to answer objections Okay, notice that I did not say if you're smart you'll work with me That's too direct I just told it as a story Other smart business owners. In fact my and it was true. The first one was an attorney. She was an attorney But my very first big private client paid me 40 000

She was smart because she realized that my business was really no different than her business. And here's why. Oh, I got it. Right. So the other thing that I did and I didn't do it as because again, I'm not selling anything here, but I am. Right. I'm not asking for anyone's credit card, but I've already given out my URL. I've already said that there's free stuff that they can get. But here's the other thing.

Tyson (37:08.879)
If you were, by the way, Dave, if you were selling something, Jim would go and buy it right now because he's the guy that runs at the back of the room all the time. So, hey, now's the time.

Dave Dee (37:17.567)
Well, and by the way, that's what the most successful people do, and that's the truth. That's what the most successful people do. And so the astute among you noticed that I just did it again.

Right? But here's the other thing that I did. And I mentioned it a couple times. If I was selling something, I'd notice I said, even though I didn't have the money.

Dave Dee (37:44.874)
So when I tell my full core story, I talk about buying my very first product. And the entire story is I saw Kennedy speak, he was selling this product, I knew that I needed it, I knew that it was the right thing for me, I knew that was the thing that was gonna turn everything around for me, but I didn't think I could afford it.

But then I remembered something Jim Rohn said. Jim Rohn said that successful people invest in themselves and in their education. I knew that if I wanted to be successful, I needed to do what successful people did. So I went ahead and I bought that program, even though I didn't think I could afford it. So I tell that story at the very, very beginning of the presentation.

What I've just done is plant the seed in the audience's mind. Because I know when I get to the end and I'm selling something, my stuff is high ticket stuff, that there's gonna be somebody that's thinking, God, I really want this, but I can't afford it.

And so what happens is I planted that seed in their brain way at the beginning of the presentation. So at the end of the presentation, when I reveal the price of whatever it is I'm offering, if they think, I really want this, but I can't afford it, that seed that I planted earlier sprouts. And they remember that I said successful people invest in themselves and their education.

And so I've planted the answer to the objection inside their mind Before the objection has actually come up now if they don't have that objection. It's still a good story That seed just doesn't sprout And by the way, I know that this works because every time Every time I do a presentation at least one person comes up and says pulls me aside. He says, you know, I didn't This is really a stretch for me

Dave Dee (39:51.53)
But that thing about investing in yourself, that Jim Rohn said about investing in yourself and your education, I know that that's true. Right, so had I left that out, there would have been sales left out on the table that should have been mine. And also, I wouldn't be helping that person. So a lot of people say, well, this sounds like kind of manipulative stuff. And I guess it is, but one of my favorite saying is, the difference between manipulation and persuasion is intent.

What is your intent? Right, so if your intent is to sell people something that they don't need, that doesn't work, that is not gonna be good for them, then you're a snake oil sale, you're a con man, right? But if your intent is to help somebody, right? Then I think you need to do everything you possibly can that is within ethical bounds. And so by doing that kind of stuff, the kind of ninja magic trick stuff,

that we're talking about here, that's what elevates the presentation, allows you to help more clients and as a result, make more money as well, in the same amount of time and effort. That's the beautiful thing about selling, right? If I'm in front of an audience of 100 people and I'm only closing 10% of them and I use some more of these techniques and now I'm closing 20% of them, I've been up there for the same amount of time with the same number of people in the audience, I'm just getting better results. Same thing with one-to-one selling.

If I'm closing three out of 10 and I get really good at selling and I close six out of 10, I've just doubled my income with zero marketing expense. That's why I'm so passionate about this whole selling piece of it. And that's why I've really put my focus into there. So that was a long answer about storytelling.

Tyson (41:41.071)
That was great. Dave, we're going to wrap things up so we can get you out of here. How do people reach out to you if they want to work with you or get a hold of you?

Dave Dee (41:50.158)
Yeah, so the best way to do is to go to dave.com. So that's d-a-v-e-d-e-e dot com. We offer a free webinar that it's on demand so you can just go in there and we're gonna show you exactly step by step how to put together a presentation that sells. So in detail. And the new thing that I'm gonna be adding, and it's gonna be next week, so.

by the time this comes out, this will be up, is my entire PowerPoint one-to-many sales deck, which is designed specifically for people that sell professional services. So not somebody who's selling an info product, but someone who's trying to book an appointment at the end of their presentation. So I'm gonna give everybody that template, and then the training is exactly how to go and fill out this PowerPoint template, literally step-by-step. So at the end,

you have a one-to-many presentation that you can do either in person or online as a webinar. So if they want that, they go to daved.com and just give me your email address and you got it.

Tyson (43:01.223)
That is excellent. Thank you, Dave. And we're going to wrap things up before I do. So stick around, Dave. Before I do, I want to remind everyone to join us in the big Facebook group. There's a lot of great information being shared there daily. If you don't mind giving us a five-star review while you're listening to the rest of this episode, you've surely got some value from this episode. So if you've got some value, help us spread the love by giving us a review. And if you want to have a

Jimbo (43:01.323)
That's awesome.

Tyson (43:27.531)
nice little conversation with other guild members go to maxlawguild.com we just got back from miami not too long ago and i had a lot of fun at our quarterly mastermind so if you want to join us at our mastermind go to maxlawguild.com uh jimmy what's your hack of the week

Jimbo (43:43.146)
Well, since we had Dave on, I had to go back to the roots and old Dan Kennedy. And I've been rereading one of my favorites of his, which is the no BS ruthless management of people and profits. Um, I tend to be sort of the nice softer boss. And so I always need a little kick in the pants. I pull this one back out and reread it. Um, all the, all the Dan Kennedy stuff is great. And of course that's how I came across Dave in the first place, but this book in particular is good when I'm struggling with how to manage people.

Tyson (44:12.307)
That book is very direct. It's a good one. Very good. Dave, we always ask our guests to give a tip or a hack. It could be a quote, it could be a book, it could be a podcast, you name it. Do you have something for us?

Dave Dee (44:27.11)
Yeah, so since I mentioned this gentleman a couple times, I strongly recommend you go to JimRohn.com and you get the program that really was the catalyst for me changing my life, which was Take Charge of Your Life by Jim Rohn. First of all, he's the best speaker I've ever heard. And it is a wonderful program. And just that title, when I saw it, it was an audio cassette when I was listening to it.

shows you how old I am, audio cassettes. But just that title changed everything for me because he tells a story about how he was talking to his mentor, a guy by the name of Mr. Shouf, and how he actually had a list, a list of people he was blaming for why he wasn't successful. Well, my parents don't support me. The taxes are too high, on and on and on. And Mr. Shouf looked at him and said, Mr. Rohn, your list is really good. There's only one problem, you ain't on it.

Man, when I heard that, I was like, oh my goodness, I'm not on my own list. And honestly, that program was the catalyst that changed everything for me. So I strongly recommend you get Take Charge of Your Life by Jim Rohn.

Tyson (45:39.931)
Love it. Very good stuff. And it's ROHN for anyone that is wondering. Very good. So JimRohn.com. Mine compared to your two tips and hacks is not going to be nearly as good. All right. See you, Jimbo. Mine is Cloud Promptor. It's a teleprompter. I'd recommended a teleprompter. It's a Mac app for doing videos. But they now have a cloud version that works on all devices.

that is really good and I was a part of the beta program and they're going to be releasing it I think by the time this episode is out it will be available as well so I definitely recommend it. Dave, thanks so much for coming on this has been an honor to have you on really it really is I really appreciate it. I've been wanting to have you as a guest ever since we went to GKIC so this is just a pleasure thank you so much.

Dave Dee (46:29.93)
Thank you, it was my honor, it really was. I had a great time. You guys are really great interviewers too.

Tyson (46:35.801)
Well, thank you. We've had a lot of practice. So, very cool.

Dave Dee (46:37.829)
I can tell. I can tell.

Tyson (46:41.475)
so

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