This week we’re sharing a speaking engagement from Anneke Godlewski at MaxLawCon 2018 about Community Based Marketing. Anneke teaches lawyers how giving without expecting anything in return can yield priceless brand recognition, invaluable referral relationships, and an increase in profits.
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Transcripts: “Community Based Marketing” with Anneke Godlewski
Tyson Mutrux
Hey, this is tasty metrics. And really quick before the episode, I want to thank you so much for listening to the maximum lawyer podcast, you’re going to love this episode. But before we start the show Gemini, I want to invite you to join us for two days with 300 other insane maximum lawyers at this year’s maximum lawyer conference in June. If you don’t have your tickets yet, go to max law con.com. So you can have the ability to come to a place with a whole bunch of people who think like you believe like you who see visions like you have, what they can create and what they can become. Maxol con is not just a marketing event, it’s not just a business event. It’s not just a personal development event. It’s all of these things wrapped into one. And as an experience, it will change your life forever. So make sure to get your tickets right now. So you can join us in 300 Other insane, crazy fun maximum lawyers talking about how to grow their businesses, sharing all the best marketing secrets, the things that are working today. Now go get your tickets by going to max law con.com. All right now on to the show.
Unknown Speaker
Run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum lawyer podcast, podcast your hosts Jim hacking antisymmetric nutrix. Let’s partner up and maximize your phone. Welcome to the show.
Unknown Speaker
In today’s episode, we’re throwing it back to a presentation from Max law con 2018. Annika bluesky, owner of the legal marketing company Market Inc, teaches us about community marketing a guide to giving without expecting anything in return. Don’t forget to head on over to the website maximum lawyer.com To register for maxilla con 2020. So you can experience these speakers firsthand. Let’s get to it.
Anneke Godlewski
We gave a bicycle to a girl named Sophia and she and her mom showed up at Westhills bike shop in the mom was like an hour late and she was so flustered. And I had like left karate to come back to do this. And she was so apologetic and I was like listen, I get it. I’m a mom too. It’s totally totally fine. I have a five year old also, it’s it’s no big deal. Sophia wins this bike. And they were talking about whether or not she should take the training wheels off. And the moms like how long is it going to take for her to learn. And you could just tell that the mom like wasn’t comfortable teaching her daughter how to ride a bike. And like maybe she just like, didn’t have the endurance to run up and down the street, you know, with her. So when mom and Joe wersal We’re talking about the bike, I took Sophia outside and I was like, let’s do this, let’s learn how to ride a bike. And she’s like, okay, okay, so we ran up and down that street, like three or four times, and that girl took off like a lightning bolt. And she wrote back and her mom came out and her mom is like literally in tears. And she’s like, Oh my gosh, she learned how to ride a bike, she sent me all these text messages after. And she said, Thank you so much. This is really gonna inspire me to lose a lot of weight and get a bike on my own so that I can ride with my daughter all the time. Right. So I guess this is kind of a good preface for the why behind what we like why we do what we do, you know, I’m never going to fly another airline besides Delta, if I have the choice, you know, it’s just that feeling that you get and it just stuck with me and Jody, that flight attendant, especially because within four hours, I got an email back from Delta. That was like, thank you so much for the feedback. Jody is an amazing flight attendant. You know, he knew who she was, you know, and he didn’t just say, Oh, great. I’m happy that one of our flight attendants was nice. Like he sent me a very detailed email back, thank you email back. So it’s like that kind of that communication and that openness. And that giving without respecting anything in return, is what is going to make people remember you. And I hope that that mom remembers us. And I hope that every time they go on a family bike ride, they think about Charles bike law offices and the fact that we, you know, gave him a bike in the raffle. So anyway, I guess now officially get started. But I just wanted to share that with you guys. So there’s a lot of reasons why, um, those were two of them. But I’m just gonna run through these, it makes you feel good. You know that feeling that you get when someone cries after opening a gift that you spent a long time picking out feeling is like that, except on steroids. It makes you a human to clients suit and ties can be scary, but trust and show that you’re just like them a person with problems who needs help getting themselves, it makes for stellar brand awareness. It complements a five star reviews, the high web placement, the word of mouth praise from referral sources and newsletter circulation. It makes financial sense. I mean, you’re going to spend a lot of money on marketing in the traditional sense, right? TV advertising, radio advertising, even print newspaper advertising is still really, really expensive. In order to try to get the type of frequency that you want. In order to build some brand awareness. You’re going to have to spend a lot of money, so why not just spend a lot less money doing something like this? And I’ll go through some examples later on. It makes you different. You know, you’re no longer that guy who’s like in our market we have heard in a car called KNR. Well, okay, I mean, great. It makes her great conversation with others. It, you know, it’s fun to talk about this kind of stuff. I love telling my family and friends that I get to go give away bicycle helmets so that, you know, you get to meet some really neat kids who deserve a bike, like in their bikes for kids contest. It makes you a credible media darling. So we send press releases out on all of the different community activities that we do, and reporters are there 95% of the time, they need feel good stories, the news is absolutely flooded with just sad stuff. So anytime that they have something that’s easy to report on, they will, it makes for a good story, what could be better fodder for your newsletter, your social media platforms, your E newsletter, and website. PS law is very boring. In case you didn’t know, makes for damn good web traffic and links, the nomination forms a winner highlight sponsorships program overviews, they’re all housed on our website. So if you’re trying to get hundreds of kids to be nominated for the bikes for Kids program, then you just send them to the nomination form that’s on your website. That’s what gets shared around. So it’s an easy way to get your website in front of a bunch of people without asking for a link. And it helps you make friends in high places. Those media relationships you build by giving back means that the reporters like and trust you enough to report on legal topics that you send press releases out about later. So just like the reporters had talked about the other day, if you’re constantly giving them good things to report on, you’re going to be on their radar so that when you do send a press release about a serious legal issue that you want to be known for, like as the expert in your field, then you’re more likely to be covered. Who so who does this benefit right? Teachers overworked and underpaid these gems of the educational world deserve to be thanked and they double is great storytellers for nominations. Students perfect for voicing appreciation and having their stories heard. Children are a common thread for people of all walks of life. And these are just like, think about the different types of people that you can get involved in your community marketing. Parents, bragging and protecting are their Forte’s, which means that community marketing community marketing is a perfect platform for involvement. Nonprofits, an easy way to get involved without making a monetary donation. 501. C. threes are always looking for help spreading their mission for profits, Uncle Sam is not a friendly fellow. So enlisting the help of other companies in your community marketing campaigns prevents everyone from lining the tax man’s dollars, neighbors, strengthen the neighborhood in the larger community by being the connector among groups all over the city. So for instance, in our office, we’ve practiced personal injury. It’s really weird and hard to go to other businesses and say, Hey, give me business. Hey, have you heard of somebody that’s going through a really horrible tragedy where their medical lives are totally upturned, then hey, will you send them to us? Like, how do you say that? You know, so, all of these community marketing efforts give you a reason to reach out to businesses? Hey, do you know of a kid who has done something great to make a positive difference in the life of someone else? Everyone knows a kid like that we all think our own kids are deserving of bikes. So if this gives you a reason to talk to other other companies, other organizations, other nonprofits in the area, the young, the old, and the in between everyone from the daycare for your daycare provider to reading to the elderly, in nursing homes, there’s no age limit on giving. So this kind of stuff works with everyone from teeny tiny babies to you know, people who aren’t nursing homes, fellow entrepreneurs, other small businesses. So other small business owners get it. There’s never enough money or time in the day for marketing, except when you show them the perks of doing it the community way. Family getting the entire clan involved makes work fun and gives you time with the ones you’re doing all this for in the first place. Employees desking all day can be boring. Encouraging your team to get out and get involved builds morale humanizes the boss creates firm loyalty. And it’s just plain fun. Community Marketing, what so here are just a few examples of different things that you can do. We do a bikes for Kids campaign, we give away bikes to kids who have done something positive. We do 10 Every week of summer, this year, we’re giving away three additional bike bicycles. We’re doing one in Fremont, Ohio, one in Finley, Ohio and one in Eden, those are all strategically placed based on our outlying areas, like our outlying locations. So it gives us a reason to go out into those communities that we really don’t get involved with too much. Those offices are strictly for the convenience of our clients, you know, so we’re only there by appointment, we’re not really getting involved with those local communities. But we want to so bringing bikes for kids out there gives us a reason to talk to the local bike shops and talk to all the different organizations to try to drum up nominations and show that we really are a part of that community, even though it just kind of seems like there’s only an address, Student of the Month Contest we go into, originally started off with Chuck’s alma mater, public high school system 69% graduation rate, these kids are having a rough time the teachers there are underpaid, they’re overworked. They’re struggling with getting the kids to pay attention. They’re struggling with getting the kids to graduate. So you have a school system that just they don’t really get the attention that they need. You know, they’re always in the shadows of the local private schools. So we thought let’s, you know, how do we get involved? How do we help out We decided to create the student teacher of the Month Contest, go into the schools at the beginning of the month with a video camera. And for questions we go in during the lunch hour. And these kids stand up and they are asked if they want to make a 32nd video about their favorite teacher, who’s your favorite teacher? And why? What is one thing that your teacher has taught you, that is going to stick with you the rest of your life? What’s one life lesson? And then if you could tell that teacher, one thing, what would it be? So we have, like 1300 videos of these kids saying awesome things about their teachers, the superintendent came to us and said, instead of just doing it at start high school, would you guys be willing to do it district wide. So we did it at the all seven high schools for a couple of years. Then we branched out and did it to the elementary schools. So you can imagine there are some pretty cute kids saying some really awesome things about their teachers. And these teachers are floored. They don’t hear this kind of stuff. They don’t hear it from the parents, because unfortunately, the heroin epidemic is so bad in Northwest Ohio that some of these kids are lucky to make it to school. We even had one teacher who started crying, she said that she was about to put in her two weeks. And this award, like reminded her that what she’s doing is important that that she is making a difference. On the flip side, all the teachers nominate the students. So then we come into the school at the end of the month giveaway $150 Visa gift card to one of the teachers and $150 gift card to one of the students. And also the child who created the video of that teacher that we chose, we give them $50 as well. So the press comes, you know, TPS has it on their homepage, like, everybody feels good. There’s great stories. And plus, I, I’m pretty sure that there’s no other school system in the country that has an army of 13 other 100 kids who’ve had stepped up to say positive things about their, about their teachers. So Teacher Appreciation videos, military messages, we did this twice. Since there’s not a whole lot of, you know, military around our area, I think maybe it would have taken off more if we were closer to a base. But we invited any family member of a soldier or sailor who was either overseas or maybe just out of state because of training to come in and to create a video about how much they love that person, how proud they are, how much they missed them. We invited them to provide photographs of you know, of the person of the family. And then our video person just clipped it all together. And we surprise that soldier that sailor on Facebook with it. And I reached out to to kick it off, I reached out to the parents of two boys that I went to high school or grade school with. They’re both in the Navy, mom and dad came in they said, I mean, I did this, and I have no video experience whatsoever. And I sat them down in front of a camera and I just had them talk about how much of a crazy experience it is like you’re so proud of your kid, but you’re so terrified of them of what you know could happen also. And so our video guy put it together. And one of the boys Jordan was home on leave, like for Christmas Eve. And we put the video we surprised him and put the video on Facebook and tagged him in on Christmas Eve. And on Christmas morning he woke his parents up. And he’s like, Mom, Dad, I can’t believe that you did this for me. Thank you so much. I miss you guys so much. But the fact that you did this was awesome. I got a phone call from his mom the day after Christmas. And she said, I really wanted to call you yesterday, but I didn’t want to interrupt your Christmas. But that meant the world to me. And, you know, it kind of gives this gives people a reason to tell each other how they feel about each other. We lose that all the time. And I know that a lot of people aren’t great about, you know, saying they’re good about saying thank you, but they’re not good at expressing why they’re thankful and the impact that this has had having on their lives. So these types of things, it kind of forces you to express that and we’ve had a lot of tear shedding Michael liner out in Cleveland is doing a biggest loser contest. He uses health and wellness as a reason to reach out to doctors, grocery stores, gyms, nutritionists. And it helps the community with their weight loss. So he has like this whole challenge. And I think it’s 12 weeks long, but it gives him a reason to reach out to all these different places and say, Hey, we’re trying to get Cleveland healthy, so help me otherwise why? Why else would a Social Security Disability lawyer have a reason to talk to all these different types of businesses? You really wouldn’t or you can’t think of like a good connection. By common giveaways. I talked a little bit about that. I applied for a grant through the American Academy of Pediatrics. We were awarded 130 bicycle helmets out of 10,000 to give away in the state of Ohio. I just looked up the manufacturer of the helmet. It’s pro rider they’re based in Seattle, I called him I said hey, how much would it cost if we were to purchase these strictly to give away not to resell five bucks apiece? So we had we purchased I think another 220 So we have 350 helmets to give away. I mean $5 apiece, you guys, there’s not you can’t buy anything for $5 especially something that’s going to have such a strong impact on kids and the community. Five cases in office. You know, sign up for a 5k All together, make it a fun thing in your office and invite your invite your clients, invite your friends to join you and create a team. Good news, good people. This is something that they did a few years ago. But pretty much they went to the mayor’s office. And they’re like, We want to talk about all that. In Chuck’s office, the old, the old marketing director said, we want to talk about the great things that are going on in Toledo, let’s have nomination forms, and people would just nominate great people who are making a difference in the city. And then they would talk about them on the news, I think they had 10. But at the end of the contest, they gave away 1000 I think it was like 1500 $1,500. And we got a big check and, you know, wrote the names and it gave another again, it gave you a reason to reach out to the organization’s pick up pet for doggy business cards. So Chuck had this brilliant idea of create, we have Office dogs, right, we have three Bulldogs, Leah has one His name is biscuit. So Chuck wanted to create business cards for the dogs. And these people, like everyone loves dogs. Everyone loves a business cards, like you hand out your own business card. And people are like, Okay, thanks. And then but if you hand out a business card of your dog, people are going to show everyone so what we started doing, if we came across somebody like that was also a business owner, they were trying to promote their own thing. And they were also a dog lover, we create business, like dog business cards for them as well. So Chuck is always used as the example he we created business cards for a guy who owns corporate intelligence. And he’s a private investigator. Well, again, like you’re, you’re handing out your business cards as a private investigator, nobody really has a reason to need a personal investigator unless there’s something shady is going on, you know, so he was at a local I don’t know, I think it was like vendors or businesses from a certain county there were like 300 or 400 people and he was just handed those cards out like crazy. And people were going wild over them because they were of his dog. So that’s just like another easy fun way to get involved. nominate your favorite insert topic here. Just choose a topic that’s near and dear to your firm’s heart. If you’re an elder law attorney, nominate your favorite grandma Car Accident Lawyer. How about your favorite first responder? I mean, there’s just a bunch of different things you can do and it really doesn’t cost that much money. Okay, so how I know a lot of you guys were like, Okay, I get it. It’s a great idea. But how do you do it? First you have to analyze you have to look at everything, including what you do as a firm, your geographic location, the needs of your community, even your competition, pick your poison and your passion. Choose a marketing community marketing campaign that aligns with what you enjoy doing and what you’re passionate about. Get help, you’re going to need to hire a marketing director or consultant to help you enlist a big hearted staff member to assist or get your kids out there. plan put together a system that includes a calendar, the process and nomination forms, who’s involved in what you want to get out of it. Engage contact your friends, your family, the media, colleagues, referral sources, mailing lists, everyone to help spread the word, implement, do it and do it well. Document the process, the good, the bad, the ugly, and as you go along so that you know what worked and what didn’t smile and shake hands, talk to everyone, shake the hands light up the smiles, kiss the babies be approachable and welcoming. It’s memorable and contagious. So the joke in our offices that Chuck is really friendly on conferences around all of you guys, but sometimes back at the office, he’s not like the most engaging person, right? He’s a great guy. But we leave him at home when we go do bikes for kids. Because sometimes, you know, he’s, he’s out there. And he’s like smiling and stuff and talking to the kids when he does it. But sometimes it’s easier to just have the office go or, you know, I’ll go with a videographer, you know, maybe a couple of people from the office will come and we’ll be the ones that are out there like riding bikes with kids, and getting them all psyched up. So I don’t want anyone in this room to feel like I’m not that guy who can give away bikes for kids. Because if you’re not, then that’s okay, you can still do it. Since this is being recorded. I’m gonna call out Chris Nicholson’s buddy Jake, his partner, sometimes we need to get Jake on board with bikes or kids. So Jake, you’re gonna, you’re gonna have to do it now. Engage, implement smile and shake, capture videos and photo are not only fantastic social media and newsletter fodder, but they also double as keepsakes for the winners, ensuring that your generosity is never forgotten. So you don’t have to have a professional videographer follow you around, like, like we do. But that’s just because this guy has been our videographer for years, and he loves doing it. And it’s fun. And he’s an ad that actually helped his own business grow. I mean, he does videos for the EPA now, because there’s been so much sharing of the stuff that he’s done, it’s really made a difference in getting him out there as a videographer. But I mean get a cell phone you can put a cell phone on one of those I think Tyson has won one of those things and then you put that all together, maybe set it to music or or, or even just leave it raw and send that to the family members. They’re gonna share that around like crazy if if they’re talking about their own kids singing from the rooftops, Facebook Live and Instagram at printed, publicize it, you blast it, share the goodness everywhere and encourage others to do the same. Repeat making it an annual thing only builds a brand awareness your herd of followers and the recognition of the program the reach of goodwill spreads fast so keep it alive and well. You know, you don’t necessarily the first time you don’t you don’t necessarily have to announced that it’s going to be an annual thing just in case maybe you didn’t want, you find out that you want to switch it to another program. But if you keep doing it consistently, then that’s when it’ll gain the traction where you could end up all over TV and in reporters heads. We’ve had hundreds and I mean, hundreds of media mentions, reporters call us for quotes. And in these reporters have actually referred us six figure cases. It’s crazy. At the top of Google Google web traffic for nominations, links from reputable places to help spread the word and countless reviews have made for SEO gold on everyone else’s website. Everyone wants to help the cause if it’s a cause worth worth helping, that means articles and links galore dominating on social media in the 2018 boy claw helmet giveaway that we just did garnered 402 shares 810 interested and 144 going on Facebook alone, plus a CBS tweet on the community’s radar, you’ll you’ll quickly be known as the guy who gives arcing phone calls and emails for help use your lists and your marketing savviness to help them out. So instead of writing a check, like you know, like we don’t usually like to do so if we have an organization who needs help with marketing and who needs help having the word spread about them. Use all these connections that you’ve created to assist them. I mean, nobody wants to write a $5,000 check to a nonprofit organization. You know, you just don’t you’d rather spend that money on your own firm. But if you’re willing to sit down with a frazzled executive director of a nonprofit who has no time to do anything, no budget to do anything, put, you know, send something out about them on your newsletter list or talk about them to your Facebook herd and you’re going to create a really great friend without having to spend a lot of money. You’ll also be on the minds of other attorneys. What’s a third of a third among friends? Two thirds more than you had before. Just like your favorite client, who refers everyone under the sun, other attorneys may follow not file suit, in dinner table, dinner table conversation after tragedy. Let’s face it serious problem is if serious problems didn’t exist, you’d be out of business. Better to be in the back of people’s mind when tragedy strikes and still hanging out in the back of the phonebook. And at the bank, the best part is that giving without expecting anything in return will make you money, save it, spend it, invest it, give it to your kids, buy some shoes, go on vacation, or just keep giving. When should you do it now, like seriously, just do it, please. So success in the Midwest. These are just a few of the ways that we’ve been able to benefit we’ve had over 400 media mentions across the US Weekly coverage on the local CBS, NBC and ABC each summer for the past four years, plus highlights all year long on both community and legal issues. We have 400 Plus Reviews across Google Avvo and Facebook alone, national media coverage. Multiple stories have been picked up by the Associated Press yielding coverage in New York Times, Washington Post, NPR, Yahoo News and Huffington Post 3500 or 35,500 people touched every month, we have 15,500 on our print newsletter list, and we have another 20,000 on our E newsletter list. So we’re reaching a lot of mailboxes. These lists have grown because of these programs. I mean, if you if you reach out to half of the organizations, and you say, hey, I really want to find kids who are doing something great. I really want to hear about a teacher who is making a difference. Of course, they’re going to share their lists with you, they’re going to want that word to be spread. So now instead of being that really weird ambulance chaser, a personal injury attorney who’s just asking for a random list, you now have a reason to get in front of their herd of people. And then they’re gonna see the benefit to referrals and repeat clients make up 50% of our cases, probably even maybe a little more. The other 30% of our cases are coming from people finding us online and liking our reviews. So it’s safe to say that we are bonafide people pleasers. The number one pick up many local reporters It feels pretty good to have local celebrities calling the office for help for their families and friends proving that the like and trust factor is alive and well especially for six figure fees. We’ve had two TV reporters call us for their personal friends and families cases and they have been like really high dollar cases. One guy was a state trooper who was responding to an accident on the side of the turnpike when a semi truck came roaring through hit a van that hit him you know he was in the hospital for I don’t even remember how long but you know, it was a it was a big case was a big deal. The money trees in the firm keep growing office expense to Office expansions increase in staff increase in overall case value increase the number of cases increase in profits increase in holiday bonuses, keep everyone happy. And Toledo loves chuck the guy who grew up in West Toledo as a blue collar son of a laundry truck driver is still connecting with people 35 years later telling their stories and spreading the warm fuzzy feelings in Northwest Ohio. So I have quite a bit of time left. So what kind of questions you guys have or like, Is there are there any specific programs that you want me to delve into or? Okay, so here’s one easy way to reach out to the media if you don’t really have a reason to reach out to media. We have these little key tags and we give them to all of our new clients. If your key is our last call, our office will give the person a reward. They cost like two cents PS One, a penny apiece are very cheap. Each key tag has an individual number on it registered number, so that when somebody calls and says that they found these keys, we can match the number with the person who lost them. So we just use it originally as a reason to stay top of mind with our clients so that anytime that they have their keys in their car and a potential car accident, they would think of us well, I thought that maybe if we did the same thing for the local media people that we could help stay top of mind with them. In case there’s any type of big story that need they need legal commentary for. So I looked I had an intern look up every single TV reporter, producer, janitor, any type of name I could get from all the different websites for TV radio newspaper, there, like 350 names, did a mass mailing, we matched Key Tag numbers to all those people. I sent it with a letter that said, Hey, if you ever I know that competition is really stiff, but if you ever have a story, you need legal commentary, like a some attorney, an attorney to give legal commentary, call us keep this on your ring, we’re available 24/7 I can get you an interview immediately. So there’s two stories. One, the chief meteorologist for the for 13, ABC lost his keys call and somebody you know, found them and called us so he was really excited and happy. But the the really cool story that John’s talking about is one of our clients had moved from Ohio down to North Carolina. He’s an avid fisherman. He was fishing off of the coast, I think near Kitty Hawk. Just fishing on the shore wave knocks him over, he loses his keys. The keys float up 10 miles, like up the coast to I don’t know, I don’t remember the city. But somebody else found them turned him into a local Yacht Club lady from the club calls and says, Hey, I found these keys, call the guy and he’s like, crying. I’m like, they’re just a set of keys, man, it’s okay. It turns out he had lost 100 pounds. And his wedding ring didn’t fit him anymore. And it was like this, this ring that he and his wife had found in St. Augustine on the special trip to Florida. And his that ring was on his keys. So we got him his wedding ring back. So now when we send these key tags to all of our clients, we include the newsletter article that we wrote about that how, you know, we were able to get it back. And it works, you know, so we have reporters calling us because they have the key tag on there. And of course, they’re gonna put it on their key rings, because you know, in case they’re ever fishing off the coast of Kitty Hawk and lose their wedding ring to you know, they want to be protected. But yeah, so that’s, that’s a good story. So like I mentioned before, Toledo Public Schools is just, they’re, they’re really bad. They need a lot of help. And a lot of these kids have no intention of going to college at all, especially the really, truly inner city schools. So we’re doing the student and teacher, student teacher of the Month Contest and this kid, he’s like, I’ll make a video, you know, because sometimes in some of the high schools, the kids are like, I don’t really want to talk about my teacher. But this kid’s like, yeah, I want to talk about Mr. Richardson. So he walks up, and he’s smiling. And he has a whole set of gold, gold teeth, right? Like the whatever the grill the grill. So he’s like, Miss Richardson is amazing, you know, help. She’s the only one that ever told me that I could go to college. And you guys all know, like, especially your mouth, you know about how big the Ohio State is right? Especially in our area. So they call it the Ohio State. So he’s like, she’s the only one who helped me apply to college, and she’s even taking me on a tour. Now I’m getting letters. And I’m going to college. We’re like, where are you going? He’s like the Ohio State University. Lambda campus. Well, he’s like, Lima campus, so But still, it’s okay. He’s going to like the community version of Ohio State. And we’re really proud of him. So you can imagine the tears we chose him as a winner as the winner. He got to present Miss Richardson with a plaque and $150 Visa gift card and she’s crying her eyes out. She’s loving it. She and I are Facebook friends, like we follow each other all the time. And, you know, it’s just it makes you feel good. And so it builds your heart and it builds credibility. And now you’re not just some lawyer who’s trying to market anything. Lawyers who market are weird, because you know, you guys are, but that’s cool. I’m weird to with you.
