How To Market Your Law Firm to Grow Your Revenue with Chris Casseday 487

Where is your best dollar spent in marketing your law firm? What do you need to have in place before you get started? What are the biggest marketing mistakes lawyers need to be aware of? This and more is what our guest, Chris Casseday gives advice about on today’s podcast episode. 

Chris is the director of operations at GNGF. He specializes in creating strategic marketing plans for law firms across the country. Over the past decade, Chris has helped drive millions of dollars of revenue for clients and is a strategic marketing leader over 15 years of SEO and is Google ad certified. Seeing his client’s online presence and revenue growth motivates Chris to work with energy and passion every single day. 

Episode Highlights:

2:45 Meet Chris 

4:27 Where is the best dollar spent for the next 5 to 10 years? 

6:36 What are some of the things structurally that people need to be thinking about before marketing?

8:33 What is a marketing funnel with strategies and tactics that need to be thought through? 

10:32 How do you move the wrong people out of the funnel and why is this important?

11:37 Web 2.0? Is it a thing?

12:29 Let talk about the mindset of leading with value first …

15:00 What to use as a lead magnet? Is there something working now?

18:03 2 to 3 biggest mistakes that lawyers make in marketing …

20:06 Is Google getting worse?

22:16 The importance of small victories when marketing 

Jim’s Hack: So for my hack of the week, I want you to think like an Eagle Scout. They have to do a project. A project they can not do all by themselves.They have to get help. So ask yourself — Who can I get to help with this? What can I delegate and how can I get different people involved in the project? 

Chris’s Hack: Schedule your 2023 and beyond, from goals to marketing meeting, Then pull in help when you need to, but if you don’t schedule that meeting, it’s gonna be March before you know it, and you’re gonna be behind the eight ball and not reach your goals for 2023. Get it done! 

Tyson’s Tip:  Audit the potential new client experience from the leads perspective. How easy or difficult is it for them to reach out to you? I would assume that all of us will probably find that it’s not nearly as good as what we would hope. 

🎥 Watch the full video on YouTube. 

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Transcript: How To Market Your Law Firm to Grow Your Revenue with Chris Casseday

Speaker 1
Run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum lawyer podcast, podcast, your hosts, Jim hacking and Tyson metrics. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.

Jim Hacking
Welcome back to the maximum lawyer podcast. My name is Jim hacking.

Tyson Mutrux
And my name is Tyson nutrix. What’s up Jimmy?

Jim Hacking
Oh, just being a little silly. I was just sitting in the lunchroom with some of our team members. And I was telling them, we’re getting ready to move out of our space. And I was showing them how little space we had when we first moved in and how much we’ve expanded over the last five years. So it was I had them all surprised and laughing.

Tyson Mutrux
Pretty cool. How is the move coming along?

Jim Hacking
Oh, we’re just getting started. So we’re recording this right before Thanksgiving. And we’ll be moving December 16. So a couple of weeks, and we’re only moving 1.1 miles away. But you think it was like moving to Alaska or something,

Tyson Mutrux
I am watching your move with great interest, because my goal is to wait for some of these prices to go way down. I’m hoping to take advantage of the recession. I know that’s not a fantastic thing to say. But I’m hoping that some of the prices go down. And I because I’d like to see mo see how it goes with you and how smoothly it goes with you. And that’s something that maybe for 2023 or 2024. That may be one of our goals where we try to buy ourselves a building. So I think it’s a I think it’s a smart investment on your part. So I’m really curious to see how it goes.

Jim Hacking
Awesome. Well, you want to go ahead and introduce our guest today?

Tyson Mutrux
I absolutely do. Chris is the director of operations at GN GFE specializes in creating strategic marketing plans for law firms across the country. Over the past decade, Chris has helped drive millions of dollars of revenue for clients of GE mgf. Chris is a strategic marketing leader. And he has over 15 years of SEO and SEM experience. And is Google Ads certified. By the way, I’m reading this it is so far away from me on my screen. So it’s hard for me to read, but I’m getting through it seeing his clients online presence and revenue grow motivates Chris to working with energy and passion every single day. Chris Cassidy, welcome to the show. And you’ve been a friend of the show. You’ve been in the Facebook group for many, many years. It’s taken way too long to get you on. But welcome.

Chris Casseday
Thank you. Yeah, what an intro. Love it. Yeah, I have been I don’t know the exact number. But I know I’m sub 100 in the Facebook group, which is pretty cool.

Tyson Mutrux
I didn’t even know that. That’s impressive. That is very cool. Nice. Yeah,

Chris Casseday
I believed in the vision and I’ve stuck around. So love it.

Jim Hacking
Well, big points to you for that. So Chris, tell us a little bit about what g&g F is what your role is there and sort of how you’ve come to be in the sphere that you’re in?

Chris Casseday
Yeah. So I mean, G and Jeff has a marketing agency only for law firms, right? There’s plenty of us out there. We’re, you know, friendly competitors with a bunch of the ones that we all know, which is great, because, you know, we want lawyers to put money into marketing but not get, you know, that bad SEO stigma, you know, that is out there. Right. Sometimes people think lawyers have a bad stigma around them, SEO people do as well, for sure. So we’re trying to course correct that a little bit, you know, one client at a time, if you will. And my claim to fame is I was G and Jeff’s first employee 11 years ago. So I’ve seen a lot. You know, Jim, you’re talking with your team about how things are growing and moving. I’ve seen everything right, since day one. So it’s really cool to see. And it’s really cool to work with great clients. Right? So I’m the Director of Operations, I run all of our client operations team, which is not sales and marketing, but everything else pretty much. So once your g&g F client, my team is leading that strategy with you. And we do website design development, SEO, paid ads, Ott, you know, just anything digital is in our sweet spot, for sure. And we have clients all across the country and some in Canada.

Tyson Mutrux
So what I like about g&g F is you will kind of do a little bit of everything in a really, really good way of an effective way. And because there’s a lot of companies that just do SEO, or they just do paid ads. And so I do think it’s cool. It’s sort of an all in one solution. But I want to talk about all that stuff. I want to jump right in, I want to I want to hit you with some challenging questions, because I kind of want to know where we are headed in the next five to 10 years. I want to know if you if you will have an idea if you’ve got your thumb on the polls to kind of figure out where is the best dollar spent right now for the next five to 10 years?

Chris Casseday
Yeah, I mean, I think that we need to really look at the idea of funnel and branding and you know diversifying right which is the easy answer but some people miss it. Some people are like I need leads tomorrow I’m gonna put a bunch of money into Google ads. which will get you leads, right. But as soon as you stop the lead stop. So I think being balanced and really looking at what are your goals? And how are you going to get there, right. And not just having that quick Lightning in a Bottle approach. Anytime we come across a client that has that mindset, it’s usually set up for failure, right expectations aren’t going to get met, or random expectations are set or moved without you knowing, right? So the clients that are most successful today will probably still be successful in five to 10 years, if they have this mindset of building a brand, owning what you can, you know, which would be like not relying on paid directories or not relying on things that can change and the rug gets pulled out from under you, right? build that brand be diversified, in this case, do some paid ads, do some SEO, do podcast, write a book, you know, and figure out how that aligns? You know, Jimmy has a great presence on YouTube, right? Which drives, I don’t know, you put in the group like 40 something percent of leads or something, which is insane. That’s awesome. It’s not by accident, though. So I think really looking at the big picture. And doing these plans, right? Like, my big thing is like, what’s the next year gonna look like? But what’s the next three years kind of look like? What’s the next five years going to look like? What are our goals? Are we doing the right strategies to help get us there? Sometimes the stuff you’re doing today might not be the things you’re gonna be doing in five years? Probably not.

Jim Hacking
I love that idea, Chris, of figuring out, you know, building something substantive, that’s going to have value. And it’s gonna give you a good ROI, not in the next three weeks, but in 369 years, what are some of the things structurally that people need to be thinking about if they do want to, but let’s say I’m a relatively new, let’s say, I don’t know, estate planning lawyer in Cincinnati, Ohio, and I, I’ve been out on my own for two years, and I want to build a firm that has three lawyers, seven paralegals, a support staff system of another five or six, a little marketing team. If you’re that young lady or that young man, and you’re in that spot, what are the kinds of conversations that you’re having with those kinds of clients?

Chris Casseday
Yeah, I mean, we often have those type of conversations, which is deeper than marketing, right? Marketing can help support that and push that and expedite that. But those are conversations we have with our business. So naturally, we almost whether, you know, we should or not push that on to our clients that we work with, right? Like, what’s your goal? What’s it look like? And like, I feel like a typical marketing agency is probably not approaching it that way. They’re like, you’re paying for six blog posts, and we’re gonna do SEO and paid ads, hope you like it, you know, if our clients goal is I want to hire two attorneys. So I don’t do as much work and I want to be more of the visionary, how do we help get you there, right. And some of that is not going to be like, Oh, paigey, and Jeff to do more things. It’s like, let us use our expertise or our experience to help get you there, whatever that might be. So I feel like goals are important, but how you have those conversations with external vendors, if you will, I feel like doesn’t happen a lot. So I feel like sometimes the attorney or the firm might need to push that, you know, envelope a little bit like, here’s my goal, what are we gonna do to help get me there versus the reverse, right, like, Here, here’s the package you’re buying, you know, I don’t like when agencies or SEO providers sell the package, without that back and forth have that dialogue to say, like, Is this even what is going to help move you forward? You know, sometimes it’s not.

Tyson Mutrux
You used a word before that. Jim and I were talking about a few weeks ago, and it’s the word funnel. And Jim asked me, he said, What do you have? Like, what percentage of lawyers do you think actually know what a funnel is? And I I don’t remember what my response was, it’s pretty damn low. Jim’s guess was pretty damn low. Tell people what a funnel is, but what percentage you talk to lawyers all the time. So what percentage of lawyers actually know what a funnel is?

Chris Casseday
I mean, they know the concept of a funnel but not applied to marketing for sure. I would say it’s very low. You guys are spot on. Simply put, you know, there’s different stages of the funnel, right? You know, there’s going to be like a, at the top of the funnel, it’s wider awareness and people that are probably, in this case, not ready to hire you, you know, but you’re building familiarity. You’re building awareness, it’s top of mind awareness. As we get further and further down. In theory, those people are more ready to buy or more ready to become a client. It’s not an accident, though, that they just magically fall down. You know, so, once people are in your funnel, how are you moving the right people down? And how are you moving the right people out, you know, or the wrong people in this case out because it’s not the right time, or they’re going to be a bad client, whatever it might be. So there’s different strategies and tactics throughout the way you know of each stage of the funnel. Easy example is like a pay per click advertising bottom of the funnel right? Someone has a need, they don’t really care about your brand, you know, they are clicking, they did a search, if they see enough good things, they’re gonna hire you, you know, more top end thing is going to be, we want a lot of visibility, like we’re going to put a lot of educational content out there on YouTube. And some people are going to follow us and watch and then some of those people are going to come down the funnel, if they have, you know, a need to hire a lawyer, you know, so it’s visibility. And then knowing like, where people fall on what strategies fit within the funnel, primarily,

Jim Hacking
you mentioned something that I really struggled with, as related to my funnel, and that was moving people out of the funnel, I thought that I needed to keep everybody in the funnel, and that I needed to be paying attention to every single lead equally, as opposed. I know that sounds dumb, but as opposed to focusing on those that are serious about buying serious about hiring, serious about hiring, maybe now or in the next six months, I just thought that I needed to keep everyone there just on the off chance that they reached out. And when we started focusing on, you know, really following up with those that seem pretty interested. As simple as that sounds, that was a huge shift.

Chris Casseday
Yep, that’s a valid point. 100%, and you’re spot on with the assumption and most people have it have, I’ve gathered these people’s contact information in whatever way I don’t want to lose them, right, because there’s that off chance that it might turn into something. But that effort, whether it’s a little bit or a lot can probably be applied to the people that are closer, you know, to driving revenue for the firm, you know, at the bottom towards the bottom of the funnel. So, great awareness.

Tyson Mutrux
I want to shift gears a little bit because I’ve been hearing about Web 2.0. I think it frankly, is a bunch of hogwash. But I’m sure history will prove me wrong, which is fine. But I don’t get it. I don’t think that people are going to go on web 2.0 to get clients. But I wonder if that’s on your radar. And some of the you will are looking at monitoring and kind of what your thoughts are,

Chris Casseday
I mean, on the radar, but I think I’m skewing more towards where you’re at Tyson versus some of the, you know, the others that are all bought in, you know, who knows something could happen and mature and turn into something. But right now there’s so much going on, where we’re at, and so many clients that can be had and so much business that can be grown like an untapped resources and opportunities and this fear, that’s like, Let’s Let’s dominate this while we can, you know, because there’s so much opportunity. There really is.

Jim Hacking
Chris, one of the reasons that I wanted to have you on the show was, I mean, like you said, You’ve been in the group for a long time, you’re always adding a lot of value. There was a particular post by my friend Dan Schnur Bush about some struggles he was having with Google and you jumped right in and very kindly walked him through what the problem was that he’s having. Talk to us a little bit about that mindset, the mindset of, you know, I don’t know, if you’ve ever gotten any clients out of maximum lawyer, I hope you have. But, you know, that concept of leading with value, I think so many lawyers, like spend so much time thinking about how important they are and how great they are in talking about that, as opposed to, like answering people’s questions, or helping people out, or, you know, moving people along their journey. Talk to us a little bit about that. Well, yeah,

Chris Casseday
yeah, I mean, the example that Dan is a great one, you know, and he’s not a client, and it doesn’t matter. It’s just in that instance, I saw a someone in need and was freaking out. And for those that don’t know, as a website, DNS issue, email not working, just like put yourself in those shoes for a second, like, I don’t know what to do, you know, I’ve put that fire out 100 times over the past decade. So it was a three minute thing for me. And whether it’s three minutes or 30 minutes, I would have done it, you know, like because then that on the other side of the coin, I would want someone to do the same thing for me. So you know that old adage of you know, treat people the way you want to be treated? Yes, so true. But leading with value is huge and trying to help out and that’s why I love the maximum lawyer group, right? Like yes, we have gotten clients from it 100% But whenever I’m engaged with that in the group, that’s not my goal. And I feel like that’s the goal in general what the group is like we’re not selling like don’t sell if you’re selling like delete that post you know, you might be kicked out you guys probably kicked out some people in the day because that’s just not what it’s about. It’s a safe spot for marketers a smaller piece but then lawyers that like marketing to come together awesome, like the best group on Facebook that I’m in I think so. You know, I this is how I’ve always operated I’m a serial like entrepreneur I’ve built separate businesses I’ve helped build this business I’ve helped friends build businesses not related to legal like you name it like if I can help for five minutes and save someone hours a headache like that’s what gets me going you know?

Tyson Mutrux
Yeah, we’ve we’ve kicked out hundreds of people and spent a lot of effort keeping out people that are you know, the marketing vultures the world but with led, let’s start with leading with value when it comes to attorneys, and let’s say websites, let’s do a website. Obviously, a lot of the information on there is leading with value. You’re providing that information. But it used to be that you would offer a lead magnet, like let’s say it was a book or something like that, you know. So when it comes to leading with value when it comes to lead magnets and all that, is there, is there something that’s working better over other things right now? Like whenever it used to be like a free book, I don’t think that’s a thing anymore. Like what’s working? Now?

Chris Casseday
It varies, but honestly, it comes down to like getting people where they want to go faster. If for this state planning example, it might literally be a webinar, right? There’s so much I can’t digest it all. I’m not gonna read your whole website, and even then, how does that apply to me? Hey, join this webinar, you can ask questions, q&a, whatever, it’s an hour of time, you know, webinar conversion rates super high, you know, 20 people attend, signed six people up whatever it might be, when we’re not thinking about that, or not thinking about like a lead magnet or something, just the way that the website is built and structured. Think about if someone you know, is in a car accident, if they come here, to your homepage, what’s the next step? You want them to take? You know, put yourself in their shoes? What’s the journey? Is it just call you? Or is it like, what obstacles do we need to overcome? Right? Are you the right law firm for the job? Do you have reviews? You know, do you have content that talks right about my specific situation? Are you you know, do I talk to the insurance company or not, you know, those those type of things, it really comes down to knowing the path that your prospective clients are going down and meeting them there and holding their hand right? Like, don’t just have a page one page on your site that says, Yeah, we do car accidents, you know, if you’re in one call us, it’s like, how can we meet them closer to where they’re at? You know, what questions do they have those type of things, you know, but easy, right? Like downloading, you know, a guide or a lead magnet or getting our free book, like, that’s great, great for branding, great for expertise, you know, credibility building, but how can you help them right now is I think the gap that we don’t want to lose. You know,

Jim Hacking
you’re listening to the maximum lawyer podcast, our guest today, Chris Cassidy. He’s the director of operations for g&g F marketing. He’s an OG maximum lawyer member. And we’re glad to have him on the show today. Chris, if I were to ask you, what are the two or three biggest mistakes when it comes to marketing that you see lawyers make a while and law firms like ones that want to grow? What are some common mistakes? Or what I’d really like to know? What are some common mindset problems that people have?

Chris Casseday
Great question, I think they’re very intertwined. You know, like, I was just had another meeting right before this. And one theme that is consistent, that always pops up, you know, when we look at our clients, and I think it’s not just obviously unique to GGF, but unique to lawyers that are investing in marketing is, you make that decision at some point to say, I’m ready to invest in marketing, you know, I have my firm, I have a website that I’ve built myself or whatever it is, but I need help, you know, which is a smart decision, right? Just like, Hey, you can’t do this case, by yourself, you should hire an attorney, which is true, we all relate to that. I think the issue that some firms fall into is, this is a lot of money that I’m spending on marketing, say in the first year, and then if they don’t see the direct ROI, return on on that investment. Some are saying, This isn’t for me, you know, I gotta stop. And as a lot of people listening, and you guys probably know, you’re not gonna get that direct, you know, ROI, in this short time period, sometimes depending on what it is. So like website, content, SEO, some things take time. And it’s not like, you know, me as an SEO expert, saying that to like, Pat our numbers or say, we need more time to figure this out. Sometimes it’s just what it is, you know, you went to from nothing to whatever, 10 million views on YouTube over what series of years, right? It’s not like overnight. So what I don’t like to see is when lawyers jump off the ship too soon, and then get that bad taste in their mouth about marketing. And then never go back to it, you know, in that capacity. And it’s just like, what happens if you wouldn’t have jumped off, and you would have kept your foot on the gas. And then in year three, you know, you’re getting leads for $60. And they’re, you know, six figure car accident cases, you know, ROI easy. So like that’s, I’ve seen a lot of firms leap too soon and not, you know, lean into the positive KPIs and things that are moving in the right direction, just because the ROI isn’t there yet.

Tyson Mutrux
Chris, let me ask you about something. So I listened to over the weekend, a podcast, it’s Freakonomics Radio with Stephen Dubner and the podcast was is Google getting worse and they give the example in that podcast about plumbers whenever the Yellow Pages Is were really big and how they did the study. And they found that the worst plumbers are the ones that they would like to have like the a triple, you know, whatever plumbing and a one plumbing, but but they would get the most customers, right. And they were kind of analogizing that to how Google is sort of becoming where it’s almost the same thing. And I just want to get your thoughts generally on that and what you’re seeing.

Chris Casseday
I mean, you definitely have the equivalent, right. You know, nowadays with the Google My Business, or Google business profile people, you know, mashing up their business name, and you know, those type of things. I feel like it’s getting better. You know, there’s a patch there, where it was, like, you know, feels like every listing is spam in that capacity. So it’s still going to be there. It’s inevitable, I think Google is trying to combat it. Which, by the way, anything with Google My Business, or now Google business profile, like adding new locations, or things like it’s way harder to add things, you know, the days of the phone or the postcard, like, usually now, it’s like video verification, like, pull out your phone while you’re at your office show us, you know, we’re gonna get on with a live person. It’s like, whoa. So that goes to that point. I think Google’s doing what they can, but it’s just, it’s, it feels like the Wild Wild West, sometimes, you know, like, what’s next? And there’s going to be a new thing that people are going to spam and then it’s going to get, you know, reined in a little bit. But for the most part, I feel like it’s, it’s not as bad as it’s been. Hopefully, that’s a good thing.

Jim Hacking
Chris, one of the things that I’ve noticed with my SEO company that really makes me happy is they they focus on incremental improvements, just getting a click through rate or conversion rate just to go up 1% or half a percent. Can you talk about the importance of sort of small victories when it comes to marketing? Yeah,

Chris Casseday
yeah. I mean, the small victories are there, for a lot of firms or all of them, I think, they’re not easily realized, if you’re not a looking at the numbers or knowing how to interpret them, right? Like a click through rate is 3%. All right, 3%, sounds horrible, you know, oh, actually, no, 3% is great, you know, in this capacity, whatever it might be, right. So that’s where like the marketing agency, or whoever you’re working with, is going to have that, that color with it to say, like, we increased by half a percent on the on the surface, like, if I told my wife, it increased by half a percent, she’s like, What is like half a percent, that’s nothing. But in like marketing sense, depending on what it is, it’s like, that’s huge. Like, that’s, you know, 50, more clicks, and seven more leads, and two more clients huge. So, you know, to that end, like the idea of like, conversion rate optimization, I think is neglected. And the way that I will put that, in easier terms to understand is, say you have 500 people coming to your site, per week, or month, or whatever it is, say you convert, and walk, convert a lead, you know, 10% of those, which is healthy, really healthy. So you did a few tweaks that move that up from 10 to 11. What type of impact does that have for the year? You know, like, in one month, hey, we got, you know, three more leads, or whatever it is, for the year, we got 36 more leads, and we normally convert leads, add this percentage, you know, say it’s 30%, or whatever it is, wow, we made that one change. And we got five more clients from it. How do we do more of that? And, you know, it’s not just hope and pray that something happens, we make a change, monitor it, measure against it and say, Let’s do it again. You know, that work? So that’s in the grand scheme of things easy. It’s not, hey, we need to double traffic by in six months, which is a big ask, it’s how do we squeeze a little bit more from the traffic we’ve already worked really hard to get. So I think that’s something that gets lost. And that’s something that should be continually evaluated.

Tyson Mutrux
Love it. Great advice. All right, Chris, we are up against the time. So I am going to start to wrap things up before I do want to remind everyone to join us in the big Facebook group. Great people like Chris are in the Facebook group. And Chris, he’s always contributing. So we definitely appreciate your contribution, Chris. So join us there. If you want to more high level conversation, go to the guild, go to max law guild.com. We’d love to see you. And while you listen to the rest of this episode, if you don’t mind giving us a five star review. We would greatly appreciate it. Jimmy, what’s your hack of the week?

Jim Hacking
So for my hack of the week, I want you to think like an Eagle Scout. So when an Eagle Scout or someone who’s about ready to apply to be an Eagle Scout wants to complete it. They have to do a project and here’s the thing. They can’t do the project all by themselves, they have to get help. So for instance, we had a young man in our troop back when the boys were younger, who wanted to build a wooden walkway between the church part Looking like next to our school to the school because it was real muddy and everybody was tracking in mud. And so he had to find different people to help. He had to have someone sort of do the survey, he had to have someone do the design, and then he had to go figure out how to get the wood. And it was a much bigger project than just he himself Mason could pull off. So when you find yourself at your firm, you know, we talk all the time about how you don’t have to do everything yourself. But I think that thinking like an Eagle Scout is a good mindset. It’s like, who can I get to help with this? What can I delegate? And how can I get different people involved in the project overall?

Tyson Mutrux
Great advice. Your Bob never thought of it that way. So good stuff. Chris. You I’m assuming by now I know exactly what we’re going to ask you next. So what is your tip or hack of the week?

Chris Casseday
I would say it’s hack of the week. But it fits because it’s, you know, we’re getting close to the end of the year. So my hack of the week is schedule your 2023. And beyond goals slash marketing meeting, whatever you want to call it. You know, whether you use traction or EOS to guide things great. If not, have the meeting, get some stuff down to Jimmy’s point, pull in help when you need to. But if you don’t schedule that meeting, it’s going to be March before you know it and you’re going to be behind the eight ball and not reach your goals for 2023. You know, we still got time. We still got time before the end of the year. So let’s get it done.

Tyson Mutrux
It’s funny, we’ve not had a guest in a long time that’s regularly called Jim. Jimmy. I just love it. I just love it. So much. Really how it would be is yes, I love it. I love it. It’s like

Chris Casseday
sub 100. And of the group, I can do that. Maybe I just you know, yeah, maybe not. Next time. I can say Jim, but all right.

Tyson Mutrux
I love it. I absolutely love it. All right. So my tip of the week is to, I figured this was kind of fitting because we’re having you on here Chris is like audit your the potential new client experience from the legal perspective, right? So audit that and see what it’s like do like test it out yourself. So go to your website, tested out what it’s like to actually contact your firm. And another way of doing it is actually reaching out to some of your clients that have hired you ask them what the process was like. But then also ask some people that are friends of yours. Hey, go through the process. And you tell me what you think. And how easy or difficult is it for them to reach out to you. So audit that experience. And I’m assuming that all of us will probably find that it’s not nearly as good as what we would hope. So that is my tip of the week. Chris, thank you so much for coming on really early. Appreciate it. We’ll have to have you on some more because I think that your tidbits are fantastic.

Chris Casseday
Appreciate the opportunity. And yeah, I’m always, always game for it. You guys have built a great group so happy to contribute where I can for sure. Thanks, bud.

Tyson Mutrux
Sweet. Thanks, Chris.

Speaker 1
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