This week on the show we have Morris Lilienthal, a personal injury lawyer, based out of Huntsville, IN. Morris represents accident and injury victims, hosts The Mo Show Live, a Facebook Live event that features interviews with prominent community members of Huntsville and Alabama, and is also a co-author of The Ultimate Guide to Social Media For Business Owners, Professionals and Entrepreneurs book.
In today’s episode we’ll talk about podcasts, Facebook Live, and Facebook Groups.
Hacking’s Hack:
Jim recommends doing podcasting best practices and said there’s no place better to start when it comes to podcasting than Pat Flynn. Pat Flynn started Smart Passive Income many years ago.
Tyson’s Tip:
In regards to starting a podcast, Tyson recommend putting three in the can and then publishing it. The reason why is, once a person listens to it, and if they want to listen to more, they’re going to want to listen to more right away and you want to hook them.
Mo’s Tip:
Make sure you respond to your Google reviews, all the positive reviews should have a response. It’s real important to show that engagement with your audience that may be looking on Google.
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Transcripts: “Best Podcasting Practices” with Morris Lilienthal
Unknown Speaker
Run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum lawyer podcast, podcast. Your hosts, Jim hacking and Tyson nutrix. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm.
Jim Hacking
Welcome to the show. Welcome back to the maximum lawyer Podcast. I’m Jim hacking.
Tyson Mutrux
an anti symmetric What’s up, Jimmy?
Jim Hacking
Oh, Tyson, we got a special episode today of the old maximum lawyer podcast. We have a friend, longtime friend of the show, one of the OG Max law members, Morris Lilienthal, from Huntsville, Alabama. He’s doing so many cool things on social media, and he’s inching into the podcast dream, and he wanted to talk to us about it.
Morris Lilienthal
What’s up guys, appreciate you guys having me on today.
Tyson Mutrux
I’m excited. This is gonna be fun. You’re kind of flipping the tables, right? Well, yeah, I thought
Morris Lilienthal
I thought we’d flip the script here and see if I could put you guys on the spot and ask you some questions. Because I think it’s something that other people may have interest in, considering the success you guys have had with this podcast and with the Facebook group. So kind of give our audience an idea of what they reached out to you guys is I was asked to speak at a conference coming up first quarter of next year. And it’s a conference. It’s a marketing conference put on by AJ, American travelers Association, American Association for Justice, and it’s their marketing conference that their winter conference, and I’m going to be asked to be speaking on what they call the nuts and bolts of running a podcast. And I run a Facebook Live show that I kind of turn into a podcast. But what I really wanted to do was I thought, You know what, what a better way to define from people who are running out to them, get feedback in them on certain issues, that would really give me some insight from Dallas perspective, people who are running successful podcast, to provide my audience with feedback on these are some of the key things that I think you need to be aware of and think about if you’re wanting to put together your own podcast 2020. So that’s what I’m here for. And I just want to if you guys are ready, I want to jump right into it. So I guess, you know, the first thing that I that I think you know, would be important is if you see somebody wanting to do a podcast is the theme of the pocket. And you know, what I found is you’ve got a variety of themes out there, you could do a legal thing like you guys do. I think you could do a non legal thing, you know, maybe community interest or something that you had interest or hobby and but you know what my thought was be I think you need to think about your audience. Is there an audience out there for the content, you’re wanting to create people that are going to engage with a content that kind of wanted to, you know, get your feedback from general perspective? Certainly why you started illegal podcast. I think I know a little bit why. But what your thoughts are, is that there are other lawyers out there and creating non legal podcasts up think there may be some traction for growing their influence on social that way. Yeah,
Jim Hacking
well, I think I think thinking about your audience is definitely a good approach. I think that a lot of people start a podcast because they think it’s cool and hip and something that they should do. And they don’t really drill down to figure out who their audience is going to be. So I do think that the less that you’re talking about the nuts and bolts of practicing law, as far as like the ins and outs of particular cases, it’s going to be much more interesting. You know, our friend, even left cough just started a podcast about the things that lawyers do when they’re not practicing law. And I think that’s really interesting. And you and Bernard both have shows that are not about how great a lawyer you are, or about, you know, the the ins and outs of private practice. So I think that thinking about your audience, and really drilling down as to why am I doing this? Who is going to listen to this? Why are they going to listen to it? Why are they going to give me their time? You know, our greatest commodity right now is time. And with a podcast, you know, in the old days, there were just a few podcasts. Now there’s 1000s of podcasts, and people can find stuff to listen to on any given topic. So why are they going to listen to yours?
Morris Lilienthal
Yeah, great. I think it’s important to think about your audience as well. And they certainly gotta have something you’ve got to have a passion for. But you know, if you have a passion for shoe strings, and I don’t know that there’s gonna be a big audience for discussions on sneaker shoe strength. So what do you think but
Tyson Mutrux
something that one of the first things that Jim and I did was we sat down and we we kind of figured out what we thought our audience was going to be. And Jim, I don’t remember if that was before we started or was after we are a few episodes in but once once we got a little bit of traction, we definitely okay, we’re like, what audience do we want? But I think something else to think about, though, is kind of where you’re headed with it. Because that’s something that Jim and I didn’t really do. We tried to but we didn’t really know where we were going with it. We really did. Jim, you may disagree with that, but we we wanted to know where we were going, but it was kind of where we want to do with this thing. But if you can know where you’re going. It’s a far better way of sort of structuring this because you can set a benchmark and everything else. But this has grown in a way that I don’t think Jim and I really even expected, it’s been kind of amazing. But I also find it fascinating that the lawyers that do the non legal stuff, though, because it’s, it can tend to be a little more entertaining, and then may draw more ears. I don’t know, I’ve never done it. But I do find it interesting that if you, you do something non legal, but they know you as the lawyer, I think it can be beneficial. I’ve never tested that. So I don’t know if it works, but I think it could be fun to do.
Morris Lilienthal
Yeah, I agree with you. You know, that’s the kind of a theme of my Facebook Live. And I think that’s in essence, what it does, it allows me and I know, but I think those the same way about his show, that it allows us to engage with members of our community locally and abroad in on certain topics, and allows me to tap into their audience share their mission and their story. And it’s, you know, now allowed me to connect with other people to get to a point where now I’m being asked to speak at conferences, which is a whole next level of things, which is going to write what you’re talking about Tyson, which was, you know, my initial goal was to start down that path of having a show, and then trying to make local connections and meet new people sharing nonprofits, but within it, you know, further down the road goal of trying to get to be more of an authority on this subject where I can be invited to speak.
Jim Hacking
Yeah, no, I think I think one thing to keep in mind, for your, for your audience when you’re presenting and something that you need to tell them is, it’s going to take a while, it’s going to take a while to get some traction, and that they really need to be in it for the long haul. You know, Dean Jackson said to me, that he wishes when people start creating content on social media, that they couldn’t look at their stats for the first year, that they just to put their head down and start creating content. And, you know, it’ll the audience is sort of like that hockey stick, where it’s going to be slow, slow, slow, slow, slow, and that’s going to shoot up. And so I think that people have to be patient.
Morris Lilienthal
I agree. 100%. And I, you know, if you listen to Gary Vee, sometimes you talk about him creating, that’s about creating original new content, and don’t worry about the views and their action to start with. And do and I think that’s certainly something that I think it’s a marathon, not a sprint. And if you’re looking to do this to grow engagement and interaction in three months, and don’t start, and I just don’t think it’s possible, and then stick and then are you guys, what are you guys? Two and a half, three years in now?
Tyson Mutrux
Yeah, we’re three years. And I think part of it is you have to, you have to schedule it, you have to be consistent about it. That’s how you do it, though. That’s, that’s if you if you if you want a big takeaway, I think from this episode, let’s schedule it and do it every week. And I guess you also have to determine what format you want. Do you want a daily podcast, you want a weekly podcast? I think a monthly podcast is probably worthless thing, it needs to be at least weekly. But scheduling it, Jim, if we hadn’t done this weekly, we make we I mean, we’ve not missed a week. I mean, we have not missed a week in almost three years. So it’s all about scheduling it and making sure that we have one in the can every single week. And sometimes we’re scrambling to get it done. But we make sure we get one done each week. And that’s that’s crucial.
Jim Hacking
I think it’s the number one thing, the number one thing that has attributed our success is that consistency, because if you miss a week, then people are gonna look elsewhere on their phones for new content. And they might just move on past you. Luckily for me, someone who’s a three out of 10 on on follow through Tyson’s very regimented and good about making sure that we never miss but that’s I think the key to the entire thing is consistency and not looking at your stats.
Morris Lilienthal
I agree. I mean, I’ve seen that with with the things that I do on social from the tips that I do and the most show as well. But it’s something that I think people come to expect you and see that I want to stay engaged with you. And if you stopped doing it, you’re gonna lose that engagement. I think that’s huge. And I
Jim Hacking
can’t go back to another point that Tyson was just talking about, about whether to do a daily or weekly or I think you have to be at least weekly. I think daily is probably overkill. For most people. I know that guys like John Lee Dumas have built a big following by doing one entrepreneur interview five days a week. I think that’s a grind and a slog. And it’s going to be hard for people to keep that up. And then I was listening to James Schramko, the other day on on his podcast, and he has tinkered with all sorts of numbers five a week, one a week, three week, two a week. And what he said is that, based on his numbers, that to a week is the ideal so Tyson and I are shooting to grow into two a week. We’re going to start off by adding some content from some of our conferences. But I think that one a week as you’re starting out is more than enough.
Morris Lilienthal
Yeah, I agree. I think that’s that’s ideal. And, but again, the thing is can sistance internet, I think you’ve got to be to be continuing to put it out there. So when you start to slowly build that audience in that engagement, there’s got to be something for them to continue to latch on to because as you pointed out in the beginning, Jim, there’s so much content out there now it’s changing so rapidly, you know, everybody is seems to be latching on to this podcasts area that I think you’ve got to have good engaging content, but you’ve got to be there. It’s no different than you know what you guys talk about health and wellness issues that I have struggled with with my with my wellness, fitness is consistency that’s eating right and working out. And I think it’s the same thing with doing the podcast.
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Jim Hacking
I trust me when I say don’t let another day go by try Smith AI.
Morris Lilienthal
I want to be mindful of time and try to hit a few other topics that I wanted to hit on that I think I’m able to provide to my audience at the presentation. And I want to add the listeners in or interact with as well. Talk about technical real quick. I’ve done you know podcasts with you guys. I’ve done podcasts with Larry Weinstein, another member of our group who started a podcast recently TPA for lawyers, podcast kind of thing. And I’ve done one in person with someone. So now you can do them remotely like we’re doing now you can do them in person, what are some technical stuff that people need to know about it, you know, in terms of, you know, technology or ideas on how they need to record it and, you know, Intro outro, that kind of thing? Can you give us just a quick one minute snippet from each of you on that?
Tyson Mutrux
Sure, I’ll jump in. So I might be able to summarize it for both of us. Something that. So Jim, and I tried, we tried Skype, we tried a bunch of other things. And we forget to hit the record button, we would forget to do it like there would be technical issues all around. And so what has worked for us for the last two and a half years, more than that probably is using Uber conference to record the calls. Frankly, it’s not as good as the audio quality as some of the other platforms. But it is allowed, it has allowed us to be consistent, we hop on the call, and we start recording right away. We’re using Bluejeans right now to do this, this will give you better audio. You can also do video with it. But Uberconference, Jim and I are traveling a lot sometimes. And so we just can hop on the phone and start recording with our guests. So as soon as you hop on it starts recording, there’s no hitting a button or anything else. But it’s super easy. The quality is not as great. We do use microphones whenever we’re in our offices that does help with the audio quality. But it’s not as when you’re on Bluejeans it’s just not as easy to record in the car. Once it’s recorded. And in the can. We have someone that edits it on the background and then creates the show notes and then publishes it through Lipson. It’s li B sy N and lives in what is that? What does that say? It’s the hosting service. It’s basically like your websites hosted on a certain play a certain place your web, your podcast is as well. So that’s that’s the hosting service. I personally have a separate podcast for the firm where we explain the process for people the personal injury process. And I use anchor. It’s is a very easy platform to use, but it’s not as versatile. So you can’t do as much with it. You’re very limited. Your the number of distribution channels that you can send it through are much more limited that lives in. But I just I want to basically just for my my clients, I’m not trying to get cases out of it. And so I’m not as worried about distribution. But Lipson is from the people I talked to the majority of people, I think use Lipson, if not the majority, a lot of people. That’s an easy one. But basically so our tools are microphones for both of us. Uberconference. Whenever you buy your microphone on the back of a second, make sure you have headphones, because if you don’t sometimes there’s an echo. So make sure you have the headphones Uberconference and then have someone that can edit it. We found our person on Upwork and we basically just upload Wouldn’t they edit it and then publish it for us? Also?
Jim Hacking
Yeah, I mean, the only thing I would add is, keep it as simple as possible. Your audience mo are going to be lawyers, they do not need to be running, editing software like Audacity to cut down on the arms and the arms to take out the gaps, they should not be involved in that at all, all they want to do is create the content, and then let the people that work for them knock that stuff out, we just went through the whole process of finding a new person, new people to help us with the process. And we can, you know, you can certainly find those people like Tyson said on Fiverr, or Upwork. But there’s no reason why anybody should be involved in doing it. And if you if you make it as easy as possible, you’re much more likely to like Tyson said, be consistent and keep doing it.
Morris Lilienthal
That’s that’s my, that’s my preaching point with everybody that talks to me about social media is consistency and keep it simple. Because if you make it difficult and more advanced, then you’re you’re less likely to do it. And then you’re going to fall off and not do your daily or your weekly postings and data, then you’re going to get into a trap of just falling off. Next thing, you know, three, four months later, you’re not doing it at all. And then you know, guys kind of talk about, you know, building engagement, and dealing and that’s something that’s that’s, you know, when I when I tried to do that, and I’ve seen other people, you guys do this, sometimes y’all what I call pre promote a show sometimes, you know, getting out a graphic or a post on Facebook about a guest coming up, that you’re pre promoted, you certainly post promote the interviews and doing getting that out there and doing and, you know, as the is the group is built that one of the main things you’ve done to kind of help spread the word about the community is the Facebook group, which has a little bit different than than the podcast itself, but also incorporates the podcast, a little bit about you the importance of trying to get the word out there. And again, knowing that you’re not going to have 1000s and 1000s of uses a year probably.
Jim Hacking
Yeah, I think for me, the biggest surprise about the whole Maxim lawyer endeavor has been the podcast or the Facebook group, excuse me, you know, we’ve seen so much engagement and growth in there. As you know, Mo, you remember how it was when he first started, there were just probably 20 of us. And so to see it grow like that, it just lets you spread your message and share. I mean, we have we’ve had all kinds of people join the Facebook group lately. And they’re in the group, they’re active for a while, and then they go, Hey, there’s a podcast related to this. What’s that all about? So, I mean, there’s people posting in there 24/7, there’s lawyers asking good questions. And so, I mean, you might not be able to get a good Facebook group going about DUIs or something, but because people aren’t gonna want to, you know, raise their hand and say, Hey, I have a DUI. But if you if you come up with something that is community available, I think that’s, that’s good. The other thing I want to say real quick, is that podcasting is different than all the other forms of media these days, I think, I think there’s a reason why radio was so successful. And I think that, it this is just a new extension of storytelling. And, you know, our most successful episodes are ones where people come on, and tell their story of their struggles and their successes as lawyers, and you know, human beings are built for storytelling and, and for story receiving. And so to have someone in your ear, while you’re cutting the grass, or working out at the gym, Mo, you post regularly in gratitude for some of the episodes that we have after you’ve been at the gym. And so it just allows you to scale yourself and your true personality comes out after 300 episodes, you know, people come to what we call No, I can trust you, obviously. And it’s just there’s no better way of building rapport on a massive scale, I think, than podcasting. And so I think that when you give your talk, you should really emphasize that for people a lot of
Morris Lilienthal
an idea. And I think I think, you know, if you’re looking to build engagement through a podcast that I think you need to, you know, as Mitch likes to totally Jackson was talking about sharing your why, and you know, that, um, you guys know that I’m passionate about that. And that was kind of the impetus behind my show, my Facebook live show. And that I think, you know, if you watch enough episodes of my show, where you live and listen to my tips from I think, that comes out, and having listened to, you know, tours of the show that sort of comes out for each of you guys, and the rapport between you guys comes out and it makes me really enjoy interacting with you guys. I love yells back and forth and genuine but in but it’s funny, you just us have a great rapport with each other. What about that TV? Do you think there’s, you know, I know from both of you in terms of having a co host would you definitely recommend that or do you think it just depends each person kind of like with
Tyson Mutrux
like work, you know, you’re trying to work it out before it’s kinda like having a workout partner where you have that consistency. I think it helps with the consistency. I don’t I mean, Jim gives me credit for being consistent. I don’t know if I wouldn’t be as consistent if it weren’t for him, and vice versa. So I think having that person there, honestly, I don’t think it’s like the person I think there are there are hosts of radio Do shows out there and TV shows where people don’t like each other, and they still have a really good podcast, Jim and I happen to really like each other. So I think it does help a little bit. But it let’s say you’ve got a competitor in your market on YouTube, you can have them on your podcast, it really matters that much. But having that person helps with consistency, for sure. I do want to step back a second with what you asked before, kids, with, with all this the most important part wherever your community is having a community because that’s what is built maximum lawyer is having the community. So I didn’t get to focus on the quote unquote, customer. So let the listener What do they want, but also the community? Because I think that’s what has helped the most God thing?
Jim Hacking
Well, I definitely think having a partner is a good idea, I wish I’d done a little better job of picking a partner, the one I got stuck with, it’s sort of hard to get rid of him now. know for sure having a partner makes you more accountable. You know, our friend, Gary Burger has a podcast. He’s a plaintiff’s lawyer with a defense lawyer. And they actually talk about the ins and outs of depots and discovery and all that stuff. And I think they have a little following. And I know they’ve gotten feedback in the courthouse. But I think having that partner, you know, it’s really hard week after week, to stand there and talk into a microphone. You know, having a guest certainly makes it easier. But you know, some of our best episodes are the ones when it just Tyson and I talking about what we’re struggling with. And that’s sort of how the whole podcast started is like we were having these great conversations back then about Infusionsoft and firm management and marketing and still trying to get them to do a newsletter with all these years later. These are the kinds of things that we’re talking about. And we just said, Why not record this and put it out there?
Morris Lilienthal
Well, I think, you know, one of the things that you’re all talking about is kind of like community and thinking about your audience, but you found a need, there was a need out there when you got started this three years ago, for solos and small firms that needed community to be a part of for information on managing their firm and marketing. And you guys have more than fill that need. And now the community feeds itself. And I know that’s what you talked about on the Facebook group you guys used to have to encouraging engagement and now you guys really don’t have to you still do but not not at the scale. You probably had to you know, when you first started, I guess you know, be mindful of your time want to kind of wrap up with what is one thing you wish you knew when you started the maximum wear podcast that you know now three years later, if you could go back to Jim hacking or Tyson three years ago, what would be that one pro tip or thing you would tell somebody who’s looking to start a podcast, Hey, make sure you think about this going in gym,
Jim Hacking
for sure, I would transcribe every episode, I would start a database with my guests, my tip or hack of the week, everything that anything that you’re going to want to be able to search later. Because now we have that information and in bits and pieces spread around the interwebs. But really drilling down as to what is in that content. Because the content has value beyond the podcast itself, you might want to repurpose it later, you might want to put it into a newsletter, you might want to make an email newsletter out of it. And unless you are digging in and transcribing it and getting your show notes and all that stuff, your other links set up at the beginning. Now you’re going to be like us with you know, almost 200 episodes in and figuring out well do we want to go back and spend the money to go in and do all those things that I just mentioned? A lot
Morris Lilienthal
of love it testing? What do you think?
Tyson Mutrux
And this is a tough one. I mean, this is so tough, I think. And I mean, we’ve already we’ve always done this, but I think just making sure you focus on giving, like the goat whole Go Giver mentality. Don’t focus on selling because I’ve seen so many podcasts where they focus on selling to people and people don’t like it, they just don’t like it. So I think if you just focus on providing value and giving it’s gonna benefit you way more than than the dollar you might make on on a couple people that might buy your product because I think because we don’t sell anything you know what I mean? Like we that’s not what we do. And we wouldn’t I don’t think we our community would have grown if we were just trying to promote stuff the entire time.
Jim Hacking
Jeff. Mo another good tip thing to keep in mind is if you’re recording a podcast make sure to put your dog outside that way. You don’t hear him barking in the background when you record
Tyson Mutrux
now I was hoping you couldn’t hear it. Unless it’s us as a podcast
Morris Lilienthal
about dogs. Yeah, I think I think both you guys make make great points there. I certainly you know, you guys have talked about this throughout the years with with certainly new lawyers and people started new firms is to make sure you have a mailing list and a list is to people that you can disseminate marketing materials and stay in contact with similar here is on the front end of your pockets. Make sure you take advantage. Well, it’s manageable to have that content there and I love that Jim, and then I agree 100% That’s one of the things that I’ve talked to the About Tyson, about maximum order when I’ve expressed people to come to the conference and encourage them to come is that there’s no selling from the stage. We’ve all been to conferences that are good conferences, but there’s a lot of selling from the stage. And it just irks me. I didn’t pay to come here, sales pitch, I paid to learn how to manage and market my firm better. And I love that. And I think if you can be genuine and share who you are, and share your guests and their subject that’s going to come across, regardless of whether you’re focused on the law specifically or focused on the community, or hobby interest podcast. I think that yes, thank you so much for taking the time to speak to me today. And let me put you on the spot a little bit. And I appreciate your your hard work and putting this community together for it.
Tyson Mutrux
Thanks for having us. No, so are we going to do the wrap up?
Jim Hacking
Because if let’s do it, you’re on you’re on Tyson do it. Alright, so
Tyson Mutrux
I want to wrap things up before I do want to remind everyone go to the Facebook group get engaged. They’re awesome. People like mower, their Time’s running out for this app Athan, so make sure you register for this episode, we’re actually running out of seats quickly. So make sure you register. And then also make sure you register for Max law con 2020. It’s going to be amazing. Jimmy, what’s your hack of the week?
Jim Hacking
Right. So since we’re talking about podcasting, I think that, that if you are going to do a podcast, you need to start thinking about doing podcasting best practices, and I know of no place better to start when it comes to podcasting, then Pat Flynn, Pat Flynn started smart, passive income many years ago. And if you really want to learn how to podcast, you could do a whole lot worse than spending some time listening and studying Pat stuff. He has a ton of free content on his website, smart, passive income. And if you listen to the first 20 or 30 episodes of his podcast, you’ll lay the groundwork, you really want to become a student of podcasting. To the extent that you can, you don’t want to just throw some schlep out there, there is a rhythm to it. There is some magic to it. And you need to study it need it’s not anything too hard or too difficult or too time consuming. But you will be better off if you spend some time following podcast.
Tyson Mutrux
Mel, which got for us.
Morris Lilienthal
Yeah, we talk a lot in the group about reviews. I know you guys preach that here for a podcast. Another thing about promoting your podcast is about leaving, getting reviews. But I think on our firm, we’ve talked about that on here before. But I think one thing I stress is making sure you respond to your Google reviews, all the positive reviews that have a response. I think that’s really important to show that engagement with your audience that maybe looking on Google,
Tyson Mutrux
it’s a good point. And also Google is less likely to remove those reviews if you do respond to them. So that’s an you’re getting, you’re getting reviews, now you want to keep them so that’s that’s crucial. My tip of the week is since we’re talking about podcasting, I recommend putting three in the can and then publishing it. And the reason why is once a person listens to it, and they want to listen to more, they’re going to want to listen to more right away, and you want to kind of hook them so at least record at least three with this caveat. Don’t get too down in the weeds with this when you’re recording, just record and publish it. Okay, get it out there. And oh, Jim has given me crap before but you know, another podcast that did and I just didn’t want to get it out there. I wanted to record a bunch of record a few of them. Get out there. Don’t make this complicated record and go, Mo Dude, this is awesome. Man. Thanks so much for interviewing us. It’s been kind of a weird thing. You’re the reverse interviewer but really got it. Thanks for coming on.
