Maximum Lawyer’s 4th Birthday is today!
Today we’re sharing a celebratory episode reminiscing about the evolution of Maximum Lawyer over the last four years!
You can also watch the video here.
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Transcript: Happy 4th Birthday Maximum Lawyer!
Unknown Speaker
Run your law firm the right way. This is the maximum lawyer podcast, podcast, your hosts, Jim hacking and Tyson metrics. Let’s partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.
Jim Hacking
Welcome back to the maximum lawyer podcast. I am Jim hacking.
Tyson Mutrux
And I’m Tyson nutrix. Four years, buddy, let’s go.
Jim Hacking
Here fired up. It is our four year anniversary, this is going to drop in the big group on Saturday, the 25th I’ll be driving to Michigan for a week’s vacation. And we wanted to get some of our friends together people who supported the show in the past, and get them on and just sort of recap where things have gone over the last four years when we started this crazy podcast, we certainly had no idea how many good friends we were gonna make. That’s for damn sure. And I can remember sitting with you and with the center square himself, Mr. Joy, vitality talking about this idea. We had a building this group and I think Tyson you’d agree that it’s gone beyond our wildest expectations.
Tyson Mutrux
Yeah, I mean, no question. I mean, it was seriously just me. And you just come up with this idea of just talking and just talking about our ideas that we had on a podcast and the people actually started to listen to it. It’s kind of nuts. And then the the friendships that we’ve created, it’s just nuts. I mean, I consider some of my best friends to be people that I’ve met through the show, so and just the access to knowledge that we have is so amazing. It is like such a treat for you to me to have access to all these amazing people.
Jim Hacking
Yeah, well, let’s go ahead. Let’s go sort of around the horn and just sort of check in Joey, since you were one of the first people to learn about what we’re up to and hear about our crazy schemes. What what reflections Do you have from that time? And what have you noticed since then,
Joey Vitale
here we go. So I remember meeting you guys. And at the time, I felt like I was meeting rockstars. And so it’s interesting to hear you guys talking about how like you’ve had like these humble beginnings, because I remember being introduced to you guys as these are two guys who have, you know, this great podcast already that they’re that they’re launching. And I guess you guys hadn’t at the time yet created the group? Is that what it was? Yeah. It’s,
Tyson Mutrux
and we thought we were like these rock stars, you quickly were like, Oh, this is not true. That’s not true at all.
Joey Vitale
Yeah, I quickly was like, I have to talk to this person who introduced me, because they really got my hopes up. But no, it’s been it’s been really interesting to watch. Maximum Lawyer Go from these two, kind of goofy, but smart guys on a podcast to really much more of a community.
Jim Hacking
I mean, I think I’m thinking back to one of my absolute highlights of everything we’ve done in maximum lawyer was the first conference. And of course, we had technical difficulties, as we often do, especially for poor Mitch Jackson. But I’ll never forget sitting up behind the podium, and Joey was giving his presentation on being a lawyer. And he posted that picture of himself at his graduation, where he’s sort of looking, here’s this look on his face, where it’s like, What in the world have I gotten into? And at times, he looks like, in the picture, he looks like a grown man, but he also looks like a little kid with his with his eighth grade or fifth grade. What do you call it? The happy where when you graduate? I mean, yeah. Joey had his his earpiece in. He had his camera. And I think I was taking pictures. And just the reaction that I saw Joey get from being vulnerable, was tremendous. And I got to see it. Like, I got to see it from behind Joey, I got to see everybody’s faces. Right. So that was, I think, before John Fisher shared, and to see, overall, the course of that whole conference, the vulnerability that John shared, and Joey shared and other people shared, made me sort of bummed out that I had this boring, here’s how great I am on YouTube presentation. Right. So that’s sort of why I came back to the second the second year, I was totally had a different approach. So anyway, Joey, I love that when you presented at the conference,
Joey Vitale
well, I mean, thank you guys for having me. I remember that conference meant a lot to me for a lot of reasons. But as I think at least Tyson will remember my mom came and saw me give that talk. And as somebody who works with a kind of a niche type of business owner, but also just a lawyer, I know that my parents don’t really understand the realities of what I do. So for her to have that glimpse into into that and see a story that I don’t usually share with my family, but also kind of be in the room to see you guys that meant a lot to her and it really meant a lot to me. So
Tyson Mutrux
that was really cool. So let’s let’s have set talk about because you mentioned that conference to me yesterday the first conference we’re gonna freakin law school, they just started talking about it. What Yeah, they all sorts of craziness. And it’s somebody like somebody’s significant other couldn’t get a hold of them. And we were like running around thinking somebody didn’t make it that day to the conference it was. But what I would say as I look at this, and you see Annika CJ see, like, over the years through Avo, with Jay and then Annika with a mastermind group that not now to fund you pick up people along the way in your life. And that I think what was special about that first Max law was that all of a sudden, it wasn’t just like a person, but this entire family of people, each with like so many interesting things personally and business wise, that you just knew something special was going on. We weren’t in a fancy Convention Center, you’re in a upper floor of a downtown locked up law school. But it was it was pretty incredible to see all of these different people that you sort of started to get to know online. And then all of a sudden, the relationships were real. And that was that was pretty special. Absolutely. No, I agree. I was I forgot all about the person that was missing. We’re not gonna mention their name. But it was, that was pretty, it’s pretty incredible. And I remember thinking like Jim and I was I was I know, I was, I was like, no one’s gonna show up to this. Like, I’m so terrified that no one’s going to come to this thing. And we had what 7075 people or sunlight was quite incredible. I mean, the people coming to learn and people willing to share, and William Ed is very cryptic presentation that he could we couldn’t record and it was just it was, it was good. Baseball game might have been the creme de la creme. No question.
Jim Hacking
No question. So let’s see. Let’s kick it over to JJ, you’ve been such an influence on Tyson and I such a great supporter. So we’re glad that you can join us. And we always of course, like your cool backgrounds on your videos. How are you doing? Jay?
Unknown Speaker
I’m doing great and happy birthday. And thank you for having me. You know, it’s it’s, it’s interesting, because I’ve never really fit in anywhere. I didn’t fit in, in law school at all. And I didn’t really have a you know, I didn’t fit in with many lawyers. I didn’t feel like I was a lawyer when I was practicing for the longest time that I didn’t really belong. And I you know, the only person I had really found on the circuit was Seth. And you know, so Seth and I would talk about random stuff. And we always kept saying, there’s gotta be more people like us. We just don’t know where they are. But we can’t be the only two weirdos out here. And I can remember getting a text message from Seth saying, I think I found our group man. I think I found the people like us, he was really excited about it. And, you know, I feel like, you know, I found my people when I found this community. And that’s really something special because it took me I mean, I wasn’t around, you know, four years ago, I’ve probably been around for three, two and a half to three. And, you know, when I found this community, I found my tribe, you know, which is which has been awesome. And it’s really, sort of everyone sort of embraced me. And I can be brash, as we know, this week, I can be outspoken and highly critical, when it’s when I think it’s necessary, because I want the best for everybody in this group. And I’m, I’m, you know, I want people to be as hardcore towards me and call me on my stuff. And luckily, I found a group of people that will do that. And I have to say that it’s a wonderful thing that you guys have created here. And I’m happy to be a part of it for as long as you’ll happen.
Tyson Mutrux
I think that the guild hotseat from a couple of days ago will will be will be spoken about for a while. That’s because it GA so it was but it was honest. It was to the point it was great. And I
Unknown Speaker
I tend to be a little salty in my language.
Tyson Mutrux
But I think I think the power of maximum lawyer though is like the people like everyone on here that everyone that listens to this everyone that contributes because it’s the abundance mindset. I think that’s what’s great about it. I think that that is what’s it’s the people that are willing to contribute to make the profession better, is what’s great about him.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I love the fact that I can text you at 1130 at night say hey, I have an idea. And we go back and forth for a few minutes. And you know, who knows what will happen with something like that.
Tyson Mutrux
And then I fell asleep. So Jim, I want to go to Christopher nicolaysen next because talking about a guy that has grown since we’ve known him I mean like it’s it’s just been cool last man so Chris figure up next, buddy.
Unknown Speaker
All right. Yeah, thanks for having me on. Yeah, I had been a fanboy for a long time. You guys know that. I don’t hide my allegiances to either of you guys but I’m happy to actually call the friends I’m looking on here gone. Holy cow. You know, I’ve talked on I’ve talked to Seth and like, this is just great and I don’t have a lot of have, you know, friends locally what I would say, but I agree with what Jay said, I think nationally, I have this group of people that I get super excited to go out and see when we can travel. And, you know, it’s from a firm standpoint, like ideas run in my head all the time, but it is nice to have kind of feedback or pieces that I can bounce, you know, things off of and, and just pick, you know, how many times my staff hears me say, Well, Ryan, we, you know, I watched Ryan McCain do this thing. And they’re like Calvin, Ryan McCain again, or, you know, what I mean, or things like that, or you know, what I mean, and I was just talking to Jake the other day and gone black, I need to talk to Tyson and I need to talk to the Jersey Boys about this thing, and, and do all of these things. And, you know, what I mean? I mean, I think it’s one of those things. And it’s, I’ve done this thing recently, actually, where I’ve started kind of eliminating, not even eliminating, but kind of moving people off to the side that aren’t actually building me up, you know, you know, and being part of it, that part of that has to be family. And some of it are, you know, what I would call a long friends, but friends that I’ve had in the past, but everybody here I’m stoked to, you know, call a friend. And I think it’s just, you know, that one big thing recently for me has been the with the pandemic has been the adapter adapter, die mindset. And you just gotta keep doing shit. You know, I’m listening to 50 cents book right now. And his big thing has been monitor recently. It’s just like, do shit. You know. So even during this time, I mean, we’re hiring an associate next week. And so it’s just yeah, we’re just gonna keep pushing forward. And I’m really thankful for you guys for it. That’s awesome. My daughter just got married, and we’re driving my other daughter to Louisville Morrow, for law school. So yeah, that’s crazy times.
Jim Hacking
Let me kick it over to the greatest connector among us, the one who has been our number one supporter from day one, the man who gave the most awesomest of speeches, who taught us all how to be raw and vulnerable, who has done more to connect the people in on my screen right now and in the group itself. And that’s, of course, our friend, John Fisher, also someone who never is shy of sharing his opinions, John, reflecting back on your time with us, and how the mastermind experience and the maximum layer group has sort of grown in parallel. What What are your thoughts?
John Fisher
Well, you know, it’s such a nice, I call it a tribe, because a tribe is a group of people who will do anything to support each other. And when you’re in a tribe, you can accomplish so much more than you can alone. And one of the things Jim and Tyson that you’ve created here, is not just a group of people bragging about their accomplishments, but talking about their weaknesses and their vulnerabilities and the things, their failures and mistakes. Because I’m sure everyone on this call, I have failed 100 times more than I’ve succeeded at anything. And it’s nice to know others are out there who’ve had the same experiences. And I have to say, Jim, last year, the speech that you gave, that was so memorable, and I will never forget it because it was just raw, genuine, and you revealed your vulnerability in a way that I had never seen anything like it. And you talk about Marcus Lemonis. And when we saw it together, that speech he gave, I was blown away by it. But I have to tell you, your speech was on the same level of something like that, because it was so much even more raw than what we saw from Marcus. And so I kudos to both of you, and Tyson. And Jim, what you’ve done done, I think you’ve shown is not just the inner workings of yourselves and your firm’s. But also, most importantly, you’ve been consistent over time on a weekly basis, because I look forward to your podcasts every week. And but but if you miss one or two, I would notice. So kudos to you. And I think that I you know, one of the things that we had this discussion once, what is the thing that I think could could hold you back. And I was brutally honest with you. I said once you start monetizing things, and I think the guild is wonderful, don’t get me wrong. But this community maximum law, it’s got to be free. That’s the key to the success. And you’ve done that really well. So anything where you use maximum lawyer in any way to like, for money, and you haven’t done that, but if you did, that would be the drawback. And I just think that you’ve done a wonderful job with this, both of you. And I just I feel so privileged and honored to be part of this group. And I’ve learned so much from it. And so I just feel like when you give, it motivates me to give back.
Jim Hacking
Well, John, thanks for all that. And you talked about my speech at the conference last year and you weren’t on at the very beginning of this call. And what I said was and what is true is that you showed me how to be vulnerable to people you with your talk about your dad and his alcoholism. And And I’ll never forget with your son there when you lay down as your dad on that desk. There would not have been my talk last year if you hadn’t given the talk the year before. And I think that’s the great lesson of maximum lawyer is that we learn from each other And we’re always trying to do better. I made a fateful mistake that first year, I was supposed to go on before you. And I switched it and had you go on first. And then I had this boring talk about YouTube, right? And so I learned right there, watching you be vulnerable, to share more of myself. And it took me a year to get ready for that. But it was only because you unlocked that in me.
John Fisher
And it was such a powerful speech, you know, you and I come from the same background. And I have never known anyone who was subject to anything that you discussed. And so my view of things really is quite different. But it enlightens me and I see something like that. But that takes extraordinary courage to share what you did, and I just think the world of you as a person for doing that. Thanks, brother. Right back. atcha.
Tyson Mutrux
All right, Jimmy. Let’s go. Let’s go to Ryan McKean. We’ve waited way too long to get to Ryan McCain. He is. He’s more of the glue that Bond’s us together. So Ryan, what’s up, man? Hey, son,
Ryan
Jim, thank you both so much for the great gift that is your podcast community. And everything that you have done over four years, it’s remarkable. Eight years ago, I was the last day I signed just the back of my paycheck. I quit my job I walked out eight years ago today. And and I’ll tell you, when I walked out eight years ago, the amount of resources out there for people wanting to do this were nil and not I mean, they’re just they’re just really weren’t. There wasn’t a wealth of information. You had Jay foon Berg’s book, you know, Sam Glover lawyer is just putting out some stuff. But But nothing compared to the depth that you guys have now. And, and I think that owning a law firm and running a law firm is both one of them can be one of the both most rewarding things that people do. And also one of the most challenging things that people do, and the amount of information that you put out. And I always tell people who are looking to do it, I always say, you know, all you have to do don’t have to buy anything, just go and listen to the maximum lawyer podcast episodes, I say, don’t even I don’t even care enough to start with any one person pick a random episode and just listen through, like you. All you need to know is contained in those episodes. And I want to share the story of how I how I really met you guys and came involved with this, you know, as a solo, it’s, I think it was hard. But you get to a certain level and you can build and then it’s like, I found myself in I think it was like November of 2017 of like, how do I sort of systematize success? And I’ve had I had successes in the past and I had failures and how do I sort of get things to be more consistent, and I settled a case. And Jay Ruane was like Ryan, Seth is banging on me, you got to come to this mastermind in Chicago with John Fisher. And I said, Okay, JJ knows what he’s doing. So I go out with John. And somehow I started, I started listening to your podcast, and I’ll never forget, you know, there was, there was a day in my life where there was it was it was right after that right around Thanksgiving, where my credit cards were maxed out. And I went for a walk. And my wife was crying. And I was a cold November night. And I remember listening to one of your podcasts and the episode changed my life. It was like it said, you’d never, you’re never going to get ahead unless you leverage the time and talent of others. And that just spoke to me. So I went from a position of not having money to saying like, I need to hire two people. And that, that changed my life. And what you guys have accomplished in the way you guys have grown consistent with your values is remarkable. It is a remarkable gift to this profession. And thank you
Tyson Mutrux
very nice things you said to so it’s interesting. You made me think about some things, just how this has grown over the years. It’s really like it started with just a podcast and then it morphed into a conference and then we added maximal media. Then we’ve added the guild and now we’ve got it’s interesting like we have things like we’re not done right like we’ve got maximum love maximum growth Live, which I always have problems saying with Jay and Seth. We’ve got a maximum storytelling coming out with Annika and Josh Nagel with Jim’s got a new intake podcast that’s coming out that’s going to be freaking killer. In a lot of that has to do with because of Annika and because of Becca, I mean like they’ve done a shit ton of work to help us get that stuff done. It’s been it’s just been insane how this all freaking started. So now I’m gonna kick into onic and then we’re gonna go to backup. So Annika, you’re up.
Jim Hacking
Before you go, let me say a couple of things about you. So Annika is a mastermind when it comes to getting to the emotion of marketing, like when it comes to it’s not just a tactic. It’s not just a method of marketing. It’s how do I do this marketing piece with a hook a hook into the heart of the people that are receiving the marketing and she can do it with bicycles. She can do with storytelling. She He’s really been a special member of the group, especially I think, as a non lawyer, who has worked with lawyers and knows how lawyers think it’s it’s almost like, and she’s younger than I am. But it’s almost like a big sister. Who knows how we fools are, if that makes sense. So Annika with that, I’ll turn it over to you.
Unknown Speaker
Okay, well, thanks a lot, guys. So, Jim, when you said the the fateful decision to switch your, to switch your speech order, and I have looked at this whole maximum lawyer thing, from the very beginning as one, one tiny piece in this serendipitous world that we live in, I started keeping track of all of the different times, the interactions with all the people in this group have meant something so much deeper than the surface interaction, and then it’s a very, very long list. So I mean, to my absolute core, and I’m probably gonna sound crazy, or I don’t know, like, I depend too much on what the stars aligning, tell me or that I’m like a religious nut or something. But to my core, I believe that every single interaction that I’ve had with the people that I’ve had, the honor of meeting was there for a reason, a super true reason. And I’ve obviously become close with a lot of the people in this group, and I hope to become close with a lot of a lot more. But the support has been, I mean, truly life changing, truly life changing. And I think that every every day, when I go into the kitchen, and I look at that Annika cookie jar that Tyson sent me after that first podcast episode, I don’t know, like three and a half years ago, it just it makes such a difference. And I know that we can all talk about numbers and clients and money and success. But honestly, for me, and I know you guys know, I’m very rosy colored glasses. And very, you know, like you said, Jim, there’s there’s this emotional hook to it, obviously. But I really truly feel like it’s it really changed his whole families. You know, it changes families, and it changes communities and in a super big way. So I’m eternally grateful,
Unknown Speaker
completely agree.
Jim Hacking
Before we get to Becca, it occurs to me that one of the cool things about this like, when, when I came to John’s mass, one of John’s masterminds in DC, I got to meet Seth. And Seth showed me that basement of his office, and I was and Seth like, wasn’t practicing. He was just running his firm. And I was like, I want to be Seth. And then I went to dinner at the Japanese or that that Indian restaurant, and Chris nicolaysen sat next to me, and he’s like, I want to be Jim. And he got to meet me. And it was like, he and Gretchen were like, oh, it’s Jim. And I’m like, it’s just Jim. It’s just me. And that’s one of the things is we get to be stars to each other. Right. Like, like, if you think about Huntsville, Alabama, there’s no one that you’re gonna think of. But mo Lilienthal, no one else. And Mo is this bigger than life person that wouldn’t have this following if this thing wasn’t here. And so that’s to me, the great thing is, and, and you know, my wife, my wife calls you guys my band of misfits, right. And I like that. I’ll take that on. I like this fence, because we’re sort of gently pushing back against the machine. And we all have our things that we’re strong at we all these things that we’re weak at. But that I think is really the beauty of the community that we’ve
Tyson Mutrux
built. No question, no question. Well, okay, so Christopher nicolaysen, posted something like three or four months ago, and he says, Is it me? Or has maximum lawyer really upped its game or something like that? And I gotta say we have and it’s not because of me, and Jim, and Jim do the same boring old stuff. It’s because of Becca, Becca, you’ve only been around for about a year, less than a year, but you’ve you’ve ramped shit up. So Becca, you’re gonna get one of the last words here.
Unknown Speaker
Thank you. So yeah, I’m probably the newest piece to this puzzle, definitely. But what I love is just being a part of something that is helping grow other people, other businesses. So providing a community, you know, you mentioned the access to knowledge. And I love being around people who are into personal development and growing their businesses. That’s my jam. That’s what I love. And I’m really excited for what’s to come from here.
Tyson Mutrux
Yeah, it’s pretty exciting. I think the things that we have in the pipeline are gonna think you’re gonna like it, and it’s the same old stuff. It’s not gonna be us selling stuff to people. It’s the same old stuff. It’s just a different way. Jimmy, I’m gonna give you the last word,
Jim Hacking
buddy. Well, number one, let me just say how grateful I am for you, Jason, for having you be my partner. How great it’s been being on this journey with you. If this had been Jim hacking the maximum lawyer the podcast would have fizzled out after three episodes. Maybe One episode. Yeah, yeah, I got all fired up all worked up. And then I would have forgot to record the second episode. The last thing that what I wanted to end with I was on a walk today, listening to Jim Rohn. And he was talking about wisdom. And he was talking about the difference between wisdom and money. And with wisdom, you can share your wisdom without losing your wisdom. Like, if you have $1, you can only use $1 So many ways, but with wisdom, which is really what we’ve all gleaned on to, we’ve learned to be wise about our lives and about our approaches. And the wisdom has really helped us grow. And that’s what we become a messenger of, it’s this wisdom that we’re able to share with each other. And we get wisdom from the most randomness of places. And we could have an episode with someone who has been practicing for six months, and they might teach someone who’s been practicing for 30 years, something so that I think it’s been a great gift to the group. And that’s one thing that I’ll remember about the group.
Tyson Mutrux
So true. All right, so we had I was gonna wrap things up, but we had someone crashed the party at the last second. So I we can’t go without getting to Dhamma floor, because he’s been a member of this, from the beginning to dawn, you get to say whatever the hell you want. Because you you just crashed the party.
Unknown Speaker
So jump right in. My timing was perfect.
Tyson Mutrux
Yeah. So all right. So tell tell us just I guess your thoughts about max over the last four years or so.
Unknown Speaker
It’s, it’s amazing to see the growth, especially to see growth without major changes with the group. Because when you’re a smaller group, it just seems to function different. And when you start getting larger, you can have people that are negative, or that can be hurtful to other people. And I think that we’ve avoided that. I think, you know, that’s a culture thing that we’re all that we’re all invested in to make sure it stays the kind of place where you’re protected. You know, you can say you’re having a hard time something your business is going well, whatever your issue is, there’s probably a member that dealt with that same issue. And I love the fact that you have people from you know, who have just gotten their law license to people who are making lots of money and have a very successful practice. And the one common theme of it is that everybody’s generous with their, with their time, with their advice, they’re willing to get on a phone call with you. I know, I’ve got a phone call with many of our members. And everybody’s always been willing to share, you know, their experiences and give advice. So I really have enjoyed it.
Tyson Mutrux
You’re so true about culture, and we are going to do everything we can we have done everything we can to continue to maintain that Coltrane that feel. And as you’ll probably see, we were regularly monitoring the grip to make sure it stays that way. Because it’s really, really important. So before I wrap anything else anybody else wants to say wants to throw out there.
Unknown Speaker
You’ve got us all speechless. Good. That’s fantastic.
Tyson Mutrux
That’s the way
Jim Hacking
we are lawyers.
Tyson Mutrux
I do feel like since John, since Jim sets such nice things about me. I do feel like I’ve got to say some nice things about him, even though I’m very mean to him on almost every episode. I don’t really mean it. I truly love you like a brother, buddy. And it’s been great to get to know I’m choking up a little bit Holy crap. I mean, it’s been great to get to know you, man. I it’s I mean, we’ve always had this bond, this connection. And it’s been great to be able to share with you this has been awesome. So thank you, everybody. Thank you, Jimmy. It’s been great. He’s everybody.
